Iverson traded to...

[bosshogg23]

Detroit. For Billups and McDyess.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...0102/811030396

"The Pistons have traded Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess to Denver for All-Star guard Allen Iverson. The trade was finalized Monday morning, team officials said. Billups and McDyess were not at the team's shoot-around in Charlotte Monday as the Pistons prepared for play the Hornets."

I don't really understand this deal from Detroit's side and the timing is definitely unusual.

[bosshogg23]

Stephen A. Smith is reporting its near done.

*edit* Smith is also reporting McDyess is not likely to stay with Denver, whatever that means.

[MikeVic]

What the!

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What the!

+1

[Honolulu_Blue]

Uh.... Huh.

[DaddyTorgo]

Does this do anything to improve either team? In fact, with Iverson's demonstrated desire to need to hoist up a ridiculous amount of shots I think this makes Detroit worse - fewer shots for Rip+Tayshaun+Sheed

[MikeVic]

I don't think it makes Detroit better at all. For Denver, they get a couple of guys that don't need thirty shots a game, so more for Carmelo I guess.

[stevew]

Detroit saves 18m off of next years cap. I think that's maybe the big plus out of all this.

[Logan]

I'll chalk up Denver as a winner, if only because Melo + AI had no chance of real success so bringing Billups in seems to make a bit of sense, even if his contract is that bad.

[Butter]

Not the headline I expected to see today.

[DeToxRox]

Pistons got complacent. AI wants a title. might be a wash but we have sheed and ais contracts off the books next year so that's 34 mil to sign someone.

[Neon_Chaos]

I love this deal for Detroit. They're essentially throwing in the towel that this team is going to win a title in the next two/three years and have basically begun the rebuilding process.

Iverson's contract is off the books at the end of this year. That's $20 million. Sheed's contract is gone as well, that's $13 million.

If everything works out according to plan, the Pistons will essentially have about $20 something million to play with in the offseason.

The Nuggets get Billups' 4-year contract and McDyess' 2-year contract and probably get the best value for Iverson's expiring.

[cmp]

I really like the deal for Detroit. Billups has been declining a lot lately, and hasn't lived up to the whole Mr. Big Shot in years.

[cmp]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I love this deal for Detroit. They're essentially throwing in the towel that this team is going to win a title in the next two/three years and have basically begun the rebuilding process.

I'm not sure it's exactly throwing in the towel for this season. I don't see how it makes them worse.

[Racer]

The Pacers are a loser in this. Who the hell can we trade Jamaal Tinsley to now?

[stevew]

I have DET at approx 14 mil under next year. And a bit less after rookies, etc.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by cmp

I'm not sure it's exactly throwing in the towel for this season. I don't see how it makes them worse.

You really think that Iverson is going to be the savior that Detroit is waiting for? Or they did this trade for the $20 million coming off the books at the end of the season.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Pistons got complacent. AI wants a title. might be a wash but we have sheed and ais contracts off the books next year so that's 34 mil to sign someone.

Detroit will be 34 million dollars under the cap?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Detroit will be 34 million dollars under the cap?

They're about $10 mil over the cap right now. Iverson and Sheed frees up about $34 mil at the end of the season.

I think the estimate of about $14 to $20 mil is just right, depending on the contracts they extend and rookie contracts.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Detroit will be 34 million dollars under the cap?

AI makes 21 mil. . Sheed makes 13. Neither will be back.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

They're about $10 mil over the cap right now. Iverson and Sheed frees up about $34 mil at the end of the season.

I think the estimate of about $14 to $20 mil is just right, depending on the contracts they extend and rookie contracts.

Got it, I didnt think Detroit would have 34 million to sign someone. How does Odom look like as a Piston

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

AI makes 21 mil. . Sheed makes 13. Neither will be back.

I'm not sure if you are being serious, but that isn't how NBA FA works...?

[cmp]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

You really think that Iverson is going to be the savior that Detroit is waiting for? Or they did this trade for the $20 million coming off the books at the end of the season.

I'm not saying he's the savior, just saying it doesn't make them any worse now than they were with Billups. They have just as good of a shot as they did with Billups.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Got it, I didnt think Detroit would have 34 million to sign someone. How does Odom look like as a Piston

HAH.

Yeah, it could happen.

Why not now!?

I would love for the Lakers to just trade Odom straight-up for Rip.

[MrBug708]

Lakers gotta be ready in case Kobe opts out...I would assume Lebron goes further east, so I guess that means Wade comes west?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Lakers gotta be ready in case Kobe opts out...I would assume Lebron goes further east, so I guess that means Wade comes west?

I cannot fathom any scenario (outside of a $50 mil per season offer from Europe) that would have Kobe turning down a huge payday when his contract comes up.

[Neon_Chaos]

BTW, I just checked Rip Hamilton's contract on ESPN.

Hamilton has an Early Termination Clause in his contract for 2009. Not sure if it's a player or team option though.

If it's a team option, the Pistons could essentially let him go, press the reset button, and have about $25-$30 million to play with to rebuild around Tayshaun Prince.

[Fidatelo]

I've got a soft spot for AI, so I'm happy for him. Maybe he can make something happen with the Pistons.

[bosshogg23]

WDFN in Detroit is reporting that Denver will buy out McDyess and he will return to Detroit.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bosshogg23

WDFN in Detroit is reporting that Denver will buy out McDyess and he will return to Detroit.

If this is true, that makes this deal a lot better.

[Neon_Chaos]

The more I think about this trade, the more I love it for Detroit.

They just got the inside track to nabbing not one, but two stars in 2010.

[Schmidty]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gary Gorski]

I like this deal for Detroit - we've been to the ECF six straight years and we've got one ring to show for it. Like someone said, Chauncey has not been Mr. Big Shot in quite some time - he's still a solid player but Iverson plays harder and is a better player.

Everyone can knock AI for being a selfish guy that hoists 80 shots per game and everyone remebers the "practice" rant but those days are long gone. I don't recall anyone saying bad things about him while he's been in Denver. I think Iverson's going to energize the team and I think Detroit is a legit contender in the East again. It might be a one season thing but I'll take one more championship over no more and the group as it stood was not going to win any more.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that I have Anthony Carter (now I assume former Nuggets starting PG) on my fantasy team. Thanks for nothing, Joe D

[Schmidty]

My wife just told me she's no longer a Pistons fan. Chauncey was her favorite player. He was mine too.

Now I won't have any sport she'll watch with me, other than MSU basketball.

Chemistry is dead, and I don't think the team has a shot to win jack now. I never thought I'd say this: Fuck you Joe D.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

My wife just told me she's no longer a Pistons fan. Chauncey was her favorite player. He was mine too.

Now I won't have any sport she'll watch with me, other than MSU basketball.

Chemistry is dead, and I don't think the team has a shot to win jack now. I never thought I'd say this: Fuck you Joe D.

They might have a legit shot of bringing in Lebron and Wade in 2010.

[Schmidty]

Well, the more I think about it, I guess it's not technically a bad deal, but it just sucks to finally see the inevitable happen. Like I said above, I hope this doesn't kill any chemistry that the team had left.

Too bad it wasn't Sheed leaving instead of Chauncey.

Also, I wonder how this affect Stuckey? He should be the starter, but Iverson's obviously going to be. I guess he'll be in the exact same role as right now.

[bosshogg23]

I think we will see more 3 guard sets with this trade especially when Amir Johnson goes on his fouling sprees.

[Gary Gorski]

Just one thing to think about - when Joe traded for Sheed everyone said the same things. The chemistry will be ruined, Sheed's a train wreck that will bring the team down...and over time I do think that Sheed did have a negative influence on guys like Rip Hamilton in terms of his attitude on the court but for that season it worked perfect and we won it all. I don't know if this is enough to let Detroit win it all but I think we have a better shot than we did this morning.

[stevew]

There's a lot of mind-boggling lack of understanding of how the NBA cap works in this thread.

I suppose they will have significant cap room in 10/11, but they will also have 2-4 players signed at that point.

To have any kind of massive cap room for this summer, they'll have to move Prince as well. Not to mention who they'll bring in to replace AI and Sheed.

[bosshogg23]

Originally Posted by stevew

There's a lot of mind-boggling lack of understanding of how the NBA cap works in this thread.

I suppose they will have significant cap room in 10/11, but they will also have 2-4 players signed at that point.

To have any kind of massive cap room for this summer, they'll have to move Prince as well. Not to mention who they'll bring in to replace AI and Sheed.

4 players are under contract for 10/11. Stuckey, Prince, Maxiell and Afflalo are the players. Around 21 million in guarantees.

For next season, if Detroit doesn't sign Sheed and IF McDyess returns for his exact same contract, Detroit is at roughly 45 million in guarantees.

So Darko for $10 million sounds like the plan

[Gary Gorski]

As it stands post trade Detroit has somewhere in the 35-38 million range on the books for next season (Hamilton, Prince, Maxiell, Kwame Brown, Amir Johnson, Stuckey, Afflalo and Walter Sharpe). The salary cap is 58.68 million this year so probably around 60 for next year - that's a sizeable amount of cap space assuming they renounce their rights to Sheed and Iverson. So yeah, if they give up their bird rights to Sheed and AI they'll have about 20-25 million under the cap for 8 players minus whatever rookies they draft and also minus anything if they resign McDyess here and give him more than a one year contract. Only Prince, Stuckey, Afflalo and Maxiell are on the books into the 2010 season.

[stevew]

ugh, math foul. yeah, i guess 18-20m in space after rookies.

[Young Drachma]

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Also, I wonder how this affect Stuckey? He should be the starter, but Iverson's obviously going to be. I guess he'll be in the exact same role as right now.

Allen Iverson is not an NBA point guard, at least not a good one. Contrary to popular belief, he does not drive and dish. His game is classic SG, come off screens catch and shoot, drive for scores, etc.

Stckey has to start at PG. Its the only way this trade makes sense for the Pistons - it gets Stuckey on the court more. Otherwise, they have traded one of the least selfish players in the NBA for perhaps the most selfish (non-Marbury division) and cost themselves 10-15 wins a year. When they miss the playoffs, Piston fans will be bemoaning the heady days of 50+ wins and losing in the EC finals.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Allen Iverson is not an NBA point guard, at least not a good one. Contrary to popular belief, he does not drive and dish. His game is classic SG, come off screens catch and shoot, drive for scores, etc.

Stckey has to start at PG. Its the only way this trade makes sense for the Pistons - it gets Stuckey on the court more. Otherwise, they have traded one of the least selfish players in the NBA for perhaps the most selfish (non-Marbury division) and cost themselves 10-15 wins a year. When they miss the playoffs, Piston fans will be bemoaning the heady days of 50+ wins and losing in the EC finals.

I know how AI plays, but he still would be the PG in the starting line-up, because they aren't going to bench Rip. So as I said above - that still leaves Stuckey on the bench.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I think this makes Detroit worse - fewer shots for Rip+Tayshaun+Sheed

Considering that AI had a higher FG% last season (.458) than Prince (.448) or Wallace (.432), I don't know if that's a bad thing for the Pistons.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I know how AI plays, but he still would be the PG in the starting line-up, because they aren't going to bench Rip. So as I said above - that still leaves Stuckey on the bench.

If they play AI at PG, I'd like to revise my estimate for how many games this cost them from 10/15 to 25/30. When he's at PG, he takes EVERY shot, and shoots about 30%. Its a disaster. Both teams that got him have tried him at PG, and quickly found out that a journeyman (Eric Snow or A Carter, take your pick) was a better PG than AI. Why would they think he's going to develop into a great PG now?

[rjolley]

AI would be great with a player like LeBron who can run the offense from a non-point position. Or with a taller PG that would do a better job at guarding the opposing SG, like Magic from back in the day.

He's not a true PG, never really has been. In the right offense, that works. Don't think Detroit's is that offense. Should be interesting to watch.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by cmp

I really like the deal for Detroit. Billups has been declining a lot lately, and hasn't lived up to the whole Mr. Big Shot in years.

How has Billups been declining a lot lately? 17 PPG and 7 APG is declining?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Allen Iverson is not an NBA point guard, at least not a good one. Contrary to popular belief, he does not drive and dish. His game is classic SG, come off screens catch and shoot, drive for scores, etc.

Stckey has to start at PG. Its the only way this trade makes sense for the Pistons - it gets Stuckey on the court more. Otherwise, they have traded one of the least selfish players in the NBA for perhaps the most selfish (non-Marbury division) and cost themselves 10-15 wins a year. When they miss the playoffs, Piston fans will be bemoaning the heady days of 50+ wins and losing in the EC finals.

He's not a Chris Paul type point guard but he's capable of spending time running the point. He has averaged about 7 assists a game for the past few seasons which is the same as Billups although he does committ more turnovers. To be honest Stuckey's not a "true" point guard either.

Stuckey is the point guard of the future, Tayshaun could run some point if they want to run AI and Rip as the 2 and 3 for offensive purposes...there's options here. There is no way that this deal turns them into a 40 win team. Iverson is a better offensive player (neither are great defenders), Iverson plays harder and if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out and they can send Iverson (and Sheed) on their way and have plenty of cap space going forward rather than be holding the bag on a good, but not as good as he used to be Billups. I think unless you feel that they had a good chance of winning it all before the trade (which I don't) then there's really little potential downside to the deal. What's the worst possible scenario? This one season turns into a train wreck and we get a ton of cap space to build again next year?