Raise Your Hand if you Think That the Panthers Are the Latest One Year Wonder

[Abe Sargent]

Like the Falcons or the Giants, I think the Panthers are aone year wonder and will fall back into mediocrity next year. All of this gushing over the Panthers makes me feel like they are overrated despite being underdogs. Anybody else feel this way?


-Anxiety

[Sun Tzu]

::crickets::

[Peregrine]

I think they match up pretty well with the other teams in their division (if they can show up against the Vick-led Falcons) and so should at least be able to contend for a division title. Obviously I'm not expecting a Super Bowl trip every year but I think they have put together a solid team.

[bigdawg2003]

Assuming their defense returns next season and stays healthy, they should be better than mediocre, although another Super Bowl run is unlikely.

[Chief Rum]

I think the defense is for real. That has been place for a while. I also like Foster (although I am biased). I do think Delhomme is playing the best he ever will again by a good bit (I expect him to settle into a Kerry Collins type of career, but with less arm and nothing approaching fantastic passing stats ever in a single season). I also think the receivers are overrated.

Davis is as good as advertised, of course, but the Panthers will need to keep their line together to continue opening the holes he needs to operate his inside power game.

CR

[Cringer]

Some people thought that the Pats were a one year wonder after they didn't make the playoffs last year when they won the Superbowl the year before......maybe not on the level of the Falcons, but the thought was there......

[JeeberD]

With that defense they'll be competitive for a while...

[Glengoyne]

I still don't think the Falcons were a one year wonder. They made the playoffs last year, and that just made me wonder about the competition. I was a believer in the Panthers this year after watching them win their first three games. I made lots of money on them until the lines turned around when people started to catch a clue. Early on I thought that as long as DelHomme could play within himself, they could beat anybody. I had images of the late eighties Giants with O.J. Anderson. I can't say I have been on them the whole way though, I did pick them to lose to the Rams. I did think they would roll over Philadelphia though.

They open as seven point dogs, and I am gonna jump all over that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I still don't think the Falcons were a one year wonder. They made the playoffs last year, and that just made me wonder about the competition. I was a believer in the Panthers this year after watching them win their first three games. I made lots of money on them until the lines turned around when people started to catch a clue. Early on I thought that as long as DelHomme could play within himself, they could beat anybody. I had images of the late eighties Giants with O.J. Anderson. I can't say I have been on them the whole way though, I did pick them to lose to the Rams. I did think they would roll over Philadelphia though.

They open as seven point dogs, and I am gonna jump all over that.

I'm pretty sure Cringer was talking about the '99 Super Bowl Falcons, not last year's team. In that case, he's right--that team fell about the next year.

CR

[ISiddiqui]

I'm pretty sure Cringer was talking about the '99 Super Bowl Falcons, not last year's team. In that case, he's right--that team fell about the next year.

To be fair, most of that was a result of losing Anderson, who was their offense's engine.

Anyway, the Panthers won't be a One Year Wonder. They have an amazing Defense and their ball control offense will be good, especially since Foster can pick up right behind Davis, if he gets hurt.

[JAG]

Chalk up good coaching as well. Getting a team that was 1-15 two years ago to the Super Bowl is one of the best turnarounds in history.

[Yossarian]

They've got almost the entire team tied up for next year also

The whole D-Line is tied up till 2007 (although i'm sure some of that is backloaded 'phantom' contract stuff)

Exceptions include: Steve Smith (gonna cost $$$) Deion Grant, Jarrod Cooper, some LB's.

The LB's and CB's are a weakness just now (relatively speaking). If we pick up a good CB in draft (Ricky Manning looks like starting material) and 1 OLB somewhere (to replace favours) then the defense is absolutely rock solid next year.


On offense, the whole O-Line is sorted, Gross is a great, solid across the board. I think the team needs another WR mibbe. I'd probably dump Moose (unless he takes paycut) and get two guys for his salary, TE is also disapointing - Siedmand did $hit in his rookie year.

One year wonder my ass!

[Peregrine]

I'd hate to see them lose Muhammad, I think he's very underrated in his contributions to their offense in his blocking, good route running, and size to complement Smith. He does have a very high cap number though, so maybe they can work something out with him. They have a good amount of cap room to work with and should be able to resign Smith and renegotiate Delhomme next year.

[MIJB#19]

Didn't Steve Smith resign midway the season?
At least that's what I thought I saw as news flying around when I had Smith on my fantasy team.

Fact is, the Panthers won 9 of 19 games by 3 or less points (including the 6-point overtime win over St. Louis) and 1 game by 6-points.
Fact is also that the Patriots won 9 of 18 games with 8 or less points, so is that proof of luck or proof of being good when it really comes down to 1 score?
The Patriots are 9-1 in close games, the Panthers 10-3.

Besides, the Patriots were one-year wonders just two years ago, right?
And now they are AFC Champs for the 2nd time in 3 years.

[Yossarian]

Nah

Steve Smith was negotiating mid-season but too the humph when they referred to him as a 'marginal' reciever. then he went out and kicked ass.

[JimboJ]

I have no idea whether the Panthers are a one year wonder or not. But as an Eagles fan who has now suffered through three straight NFC title losses, I would kill right now for a "one year wonder" Super Bowl win, followed by a few years of mediocrity. I and I think most people in the city would gladly mortgage the future for just one Super Bowl win. Since Andy Reid came here, he has consistantly put a very good team out on the field, but for whatever reasons, they haven't been able to get over that hill. It's been 43 years since the last Eagles championship, and I just want to get there once in my lifetime.

I know all the Lions and Chargers fans out there are saying, "Quit yer bitching, at least you made the playoffs!". My 11 year old son said to me this morning, I think I'd rather not even make the playoffs than lose 3 straight times in the NFC championship game. And I'm not so sure I don't agree with him.

[Yossarian]

Makes that 1 and 15 season worthwhile (Thank you Mr Peppers)

[Maple Leafs]

They may be, although people were saying the same thing about the Pats two years ago. I think they have a chance to have a good team for several years, built around that defense and the Smith/Foster combo (once Davis is done).

Will they miss the playoffs next year? Probably, since that seems to be the pattern for Super Bowl teams. But that won't necessarily make them a one-year wonder.

[Castlerock]

Are the Panthers a one-year-wonder? Who knows. But you know what... Who cares? They are in the SuperBowl with a chance to win it all. How many other teams can say that?

When the Pat's won the SB in 2001, it made ALL the years of agony worth it. I went to bed with a huge grin saying "Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots" over and over. I simply could not believe they/we won the Super Bowl.

I will be rooting for my Patriots but good luck, Panthers.

[sachmo71]

Keeping that d-line intact will be a good way to avoid being a one year wonder. If they can dig up a couple of good players in free agency this year, they should contend. However, there are no guarentees in the world of parity.

[The_herd]

Congrats to the Panthers for a great season, but the world of Parity gives you a 3-4 year window, gotta win one in that time. No matter how smart you are with the cap, its almost impossible to extend that time. The Pats have been applauded for the way they've worked the cap the past few years years, but even their time is running out. They sit at about $650K under the cap right now, their time is about up. Tennessee will be $16M over the cap, we won't see them having seasons like this one for a while. Philly could be an exception, as they sit about $22M under the cap after this season, but it will be interesting to see if they go out and over pay to get a go-to reciever to compliment McNabb and add a couple more pieces in order to get over the hump and into the Super Bowl.

[sachmo71]

Let's hope Philly works something out with Tampa for Keyshawn to solidify their Championship futility.

[MrBug708]

Seidman will be helpful next year, he caught a bad break with his ACL injury

[TroyF]

The scary part about a team that relies on a running game and a great defense in this day and age is that it's tough to win those close ones two years in a row. It doesn't necessarily mean they are a fluke, it's just that a few of those 17-14 games that go the other way could push you into a wild card road team or out of the playoffs alltogether.

They played 12 games within 6 points this year. They went 9-3 in those games, including 3-1 in OT. Flip 3 of those games around and they are an 8-8 football team.

Look at the Bucs this year, they lost 6 games decided by 6 or less.

The Panthers could do that next year and still be a good team. Are they a great team developing into a dynasty? I don't think so. I fully expect them to be battling it out for playoff spots for the forseeable future.

[MacroGuru]

Actually Smith is an RFA as of 12/24/03 (And I don't think much has changed since)

Want to find out more about the NFL Free Agents, here is one for you

http://www.glorifythepast.com/print.php?newsid=130

Niners will get hammered this year!

[TroyF]

He'll be reinked. They have the cap room to match anything that gets out of hand. Their team will be intact next season.

[HornedFrog Purple]

When you have 2 lines that can maul people like Carolina has, you always have a chance. Their offensive line is greatly overshadowed by their defensive line. Neither one of those lines are excessively old either.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Some people thought that the Pats were a one year wonder after they didn't make the playoffs last year when they won the Superbowl the year before......maybe not on the level of the Falcons, but the thought was there......

This game is very reminiscent of the Pats-Rams superbowl. Seemingly fluke team against team who won it all 2 years ago, and plowed through the regular season.

I do think the Panthers will be back in the playoffs next year. Any team that plays solid defense and can run the ball is strong in the fundamentals. It can take an otherwise average team very far.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by The_herd

Congrats to the Panthers for a great season, but the world of Parity gives you a 3-4 year window, gotta win one in that time. No matter how smart you are with the cap, its almost impossible to extend that time. The Pats have been applauded for the way they've worked the cap the past few years years, but even their time is running out. They sit at about $650K under the cap right now, their time is about up. Tennessee will be $16M over the cap, we won't see them having seasons like this one for a while. Philly could be an exception, as they sit about $22M under the cap after this season, but it will be interesting to see if they go out and over pay to get a go-to reciever to compliment McNabb and add a couple more pieces in order to get over the hump and into the Super Bowl.

"Parity gives you a 3-4 year window."

No. Bad contracts give you a 3-4 year window. Good scouting and cap management (Philly has both) gives you an endless chance to field an above-average team. They occasionally have to let a good player walk away, but odds are they've already drafted 2 that can replace them.

There is no reason Philly won't make the playoffs every year Andy Reid is coach there. The whole problem with there approach is, it's long term. They are built to win games, and they've done that incredibly well over the last 4 years (more than any other team, in fact). The problem is, they aren't going to be so dominating in any given year. They'll always be good but likely never great. This is starting to show, with 3 straight NFC title game losses.

The real problem from a P.R. standpoint, is this is driving the fans crazy. They'd probably rather "go for it all" and crash and burn after a few years, than consistently have a playoff team. Personally, i think they should stay the course, but perhaps get a bit more aggressive in the mid-range free agent market. Maybe bring in a couple 1-2 years guys who may just "put them over the top" without breaking the bank long-term.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

"Parity gives you a 3-4 year window."

No. Bad contracts give you a 3-4 year window. Good scouting and cap management (Philly has both) gives you an endless chance to field an above-average team. They occasionally have to let a good player walk away, but odds are they've already drafted 2 that can replace them.

There is no reason Philly won't make the playoffs every year Andy Reid is coach there. The whole problem with there approach is, it's long term. They are built to win games, and they've done that incredibly well over the last 4 years (more than any other team, in fact). The problem is, they aren't going to be so dominating in any given year. They'll always be good but likely never great. This is starting to show, with 3 straight NFC title game losses.

The real problem from a P.R. standpoint, is this is driving the fans crazy. They'd probably rather "go for it all" and crash and burn after a few years, than consistently have a playoff team. Personally, i think they should stay the course, but perhaps get a bit more aggressive in the mid-range free agent market. Maybe bring in a couple 1-2 years guys who may just "put them over the top" without breaking the bank long-term.

When you are 20 million under the cap it's hard to make a case for not going for it more aggressively...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

When you are 20 million under the cap it's hard to make a case for not going for it more aggressively...

20 million under for next year. I doubt they left more than 6 million on the table for this year.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

20 million under for next year. I doubt they left more than 6 million on the table for this year.

Who are their free agents scheduled to be lost. Staley + whoever doesn't equal 14 million...not to mention raises due some players next year...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Who are their free agents scheduled to be lost. Staley + whoever doesn't equal 14 million...not to mention raises due some players next year...

Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent as well. Plus i'm sure there are like 10-20 RFA's who are not under contract for next year (yet). 20 mill sounds about right to me.

[cthomer5000]

the eagles had 8.27 mill in cap space in late August.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview03/col...n/1604817.html

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

the eagles had 8.27 mill in cap space in late August.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview03/col...n/1604817.html

That's still a lot...

[Abe Sargent]

Wow, we are really jumping on the Panthers Bandwagon. Let's compare the Panthers to another recent team that had a really great season:

Chicago Bears, 2001

Chicago won a lot of close games. Tampa? 27-24. Washington? 20-15. Detroit? 13-10. All told, won seven games by seven or less points. Additionally, Chicago won a couple of games in miracle fashion, driving the season. Won overtime games.

Sent five players to the Pro Bowl, 3 defense, two offense. Four of the pro Bowlers were on the lines, plus LB Urlacher.

RB Anthony Thomas, discovered late, Offensive Rookie of the Year, 1183 yards in 10 starts.

QBs who played within themselves - Jim Miller, 2299 yards, 13:10 ratio, 13 starts

Receiver with a "breakout" season - Marty Booker, 100 receptions, 1071 yards, 8 TDs


Carolina Panthers, 2003

Won a lot of close games, nine by 7 or less points. Like the Bears, the Panthers won a couple of games inexplicably, like the week 2 game versus Tampa. 3-1 in overtime games.

Sending three players to Pro Bowl, one D Lineman, punter, and running back.

RB Steven Davis, Pro Bowl year and recent acquisition, 1444 yards, 14 starts

QB Jake Delhomme, 3219 yards, 19:16 ratio, 15 starts

WR Steve Smith, 88 catches, 1110 yards, 7 TDs


Don't they seem similar? Lots of people are saying, "The Panthers are here to stay because they have great lines, a solid defense and a strong running game." So did the Bears. They certainly weren't here to stay, they just had one great season, and that was it.


-Anxiety

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

That's still a lot...

Not really. That's at most 1 semi-"big time" player. Plus, they probably already used a lot of that space extending contracts. Didn't one of their d-lineman sign a lengthy extension during the season?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

"Parity gives you a 3-4 year window."

No. Bad contracts give you a 3-4 year window. Good scouting and cap management (Philly has both) gives you an endless chance to field an above-average team. They occasionally have to let a good player walk away, but odds are they've already drafted 2 that can replace them.

There is no reason Philly won't make the playoffs every year Andy Reid is coach there. The whole problem with there approach is, it's long term. They are built to win games, and they've done that incredibly well over the last 4 years (more than any other team, in fact). The problem is, they aren't going to be so dominating in any given year. They'll always be good but likely never great. This is starting to show, with 3 straight NFC title game losses.

The real problem from a P.R. standpoint, is this is driving the fans crazy. They'd probably rather "go for it all" and crash and burn after a few years, than consistently have a playoff team.

As a major Jaguars fan, trust, me, no Eagles fan truly understands what they are saying when the goal is to bet it all now and hope for the best. Keep the pace and practice patience. Patience.

Heck, there are some Eagles fans on FOFC who have said they wantt he Eagles to pick up the high profile agents and go for it all. No, no you don't, you just think you do. You might still miss, a la the Jags, and then what would you have to show for it?

Keep the course.

-Anxiety

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Wow, we are really jumping on the Panthers Bandwagon. Let's compare the Panthers to another recent team that had a really great season:

Things the Panthers have going for them that the bears didn't:

• John Fox and Dan Henning (very underrated O.C., IMHO) on the staff.
• A d-line all under contract for 4 more years.
• Two good running backs
• Most likely won't be losing their offensive coordinator (unlike the bears)
• Multiple playoff wins. 2 on the road, one in double-overtime

Feel free to believe they'll be right back out of the playoffs, but I really don't see it. Have the Panthers collapsed in the playoffs? No, they look better than ever in fact. The Bears were exposed as overatted immediately, while the Panthers are clearly playing their best.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Wow, we are really jumping on the Panthers Bandwagon. Let's compare the Panthers to another recent team that had a really great season:

Chicago Bears, 2001

Chicago won a lot of close games. Tampa? 27-24. Washington? 20-15. Detroit? 13-10. All told, won seven games by seven or less points. Additionally, Chicago won a couple of games in miracle fashion, driving the season. Won overtime games.

Sent five players to the Pro Bowl, 3 defense, two offense. Four of the pro Bowlers were on the lines, plus LB Urlacher.

RB Anthony Thomas, discovered late, Offensive Rookie of the Year, 1183 yards in 10 starts.

QBs who played within themselves - Jim Miller, 2299 yards, 13:10 ratio, 13 starts

Receiver with a "breakout" season - Marty Booker, 100 receptions, 1071 yards, 8 TDs


Carolina Panthers, 2003

Won a lot of close games, nine by 7 or less points. Like the Bears, the Panthers won a couple of games inexplicably, like the week 2 game versus Tampa. 3-1 in overtime games.

Sending three players to Pro Bowl, one D Lineman, punter, and running back.

RB Steven Davis, Pro Bowl year and recent acquisition, 1444 yards, 14 starts

QB Jake Delhomme, 3219 yards, 19:16 ratio, 15 starts

WR Steve Smith, 88 catches, 1110 yards, 7 TDs


Don't they seem similar? Lots of people are saying, "The Panthers are here to stay because they have great lines, a solid defense and a strong running game." So did the Bears. They certainly weren't here to stay, they just had one great season, and that was it.


-Anxiety

The Bears didn't win two road playoff games and advance to the Superbowl...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The Bears didn't win two road playoff games and advance to the Superbowl...

apparently, anxiety doesn't see that as relevant.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The Bears didn't win two road playoff games and advance to the Superbowl...

No, but they just as easily could have had Jim Miller not been knocked out against the Eagles. They had momentum.

-Anxiety

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Not really. That's at most 1 semi-"big time" player. Plus, they probably already used a lot of that space extending contracts. Didn't one of their d-lineman sign a lengthy extension during the season?

I don't know but I don't see how staying the course really helps. It has been all set up for them in the last two years and it's not getting done.

That being said they'll probably go out on the road in next year's playoffs and advance that way...

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

No, but they just as easily could have had Jim Miller not been knocked out against the Eagles. They had momentum.

-Anxiety

Oh well, he was knocked out...

[scooper]

Anxiety, I don't buy the Bears comparison. Their lines were OK, but not as good. And the Bears lines were not young and signed long-term like Carolina's. Carolina will return their lines intact, Chicago didn't.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I don't know but I don't see how staying the course really helps. It has been all set up for them in the last two years and it's not getting done.

That being said they'll probably go out on the road in next year's playoffs and advance that way...

I'm kind of with you here. It has to be maddening to the team and it's fans (and I am not a philly fan)... but I guess they just have to try to get players where they think they need them (d-line and receiver).

But, i don't think it's worth saying "this isn't working" and going free-agent crazy in an attempt to win it all. For what it's worth, i thought this was the worst of the last 3 eagles teams. Last year should have really been the year.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

No, but they just as easily could have had Jim Miller not been knocked out against the Eagles. They had momentum.

-Anxiety

And the Bills could have won 4 Super Bowls in a row had that Scott Norwood FG been good.