Survivor: Game Changers

[CrimsonFox]

And so it begins....

happy to see a lot of the contestants although I wouldn't call some of them gamechangers...

Happy to see Malcolm, Sandra, Sierra, VARNER!, Cirie, Zeke, Makayla!

I think the producers finally figured out not to put obnoxious people on the show that people hate.

So no Boston Rob, Philip, Russell, Johnny Fairplay.

Granted Debbie is on the show...


Really surprised no Richard Hatch...maybe he's banned.
I think Johnny was banned perhaps...and russell too baby to get voted out again.

Gonna be a funny season anyway.

Only halfway through so far.

That Tony guy is so weird....hahaha

[CrimsonFox]

cool aubry is there too

Spoiler

was worried for michaela .

she barely did anything

really glad tony is gone altho i wish we could have seen him in his little cubbyhole once hahaha.

They really F'ed ciera hard. all she said was the EXACT same thing they all said.

I hope Sandra is next really. Such a troll she is now.

[General Mike]

Fun two parter. I'm hit or miss on a lot of this cast, but fine with the results so far.

[korme]

Low key rooting for Michaela...

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by korme

Low key rooting for Michaela...

As well but she can be her worst enemy as she wears the emotions for all to see.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

As well but she can be her worst enemy as she wears the emotions for all to see.

Another thing I'm realizing is that she never really makes allies. She just kinda sits around and hopes nobody goes against her.

I really hope she gets her stuff in gear this time. SHe's fun to watch.

Buffswap coming already.

[CrimsonFox]

I have never remembered Troyzan from any of his previous seasons except for his name. But I really like him. Nice idol snag!

Sandra is just gross.

Dumb Tai....dumb. You just gave away your alliance.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I have never remembered Troyzan from any of his previous seasons except for his name. But I really like him. Nice idol snag!

Sandra is just gross.

Dumb Tai....dumb. You just gave away your alliance.

Troyzan has only been on one season before, when Kim won. He was a jackass that season, but I like him much more so far here.

I don't think Sandra was gross. She was hungry.

What could Tai do? It was a 5-1 vote. If he voted differently, it is 4-2. Caleb still goes home.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Troyzan has only been on one season before, when Kim won. He was a jackass that season, but I like him much more so far here.

I don't think Sandra was gross. She was hungry.

What could Tai do? It was a 5-1 vote. If he voted differently, it is 4-2. Caleb still goes home.

He could have made an argument, a very easy one, to get rid of Hali. Everyone else was already happy with Hali going home too.

I will never be hungry enough to kill baby animals. She's just bossyboots.
Mememe

She's like...become Russell somehow...:P

[larrymcg421]

Russell hid the machete, burned people's socks, lied about surviving Hurricane Katrina, and was just generally nasty to people. Sandra is nothing like that.

She argued for killing and eating the goat, then gave in the majority of the group when they didn't want to do that. Comparing that to Russell is absurd.

As for Tai, he did try to make that argument. They showed several conversations he had in the episode where he made an argument for keeping Caleb. In the end, the group was going with voting out Caleb and he agreed instead of wasting his vote.

[Maple Leafs]

That was one heck of a tribal council this week.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

That was one heck of a tribal council this week.

One of the best ever. Not happy with the result.

[EagleFan]

I don't get why they targeted Siera.

[CrimsonFox]

Sandra is so wrong so often.

1 of the 2 people I really liked is now gone

And I saw it coming as soon as they were showing confessionals from the side.

so bad.

what was that with JT. seriously. I don't understand his move at all.
I somewhat feel even he didn't complete his move.

he could have easily told them to vote sandra.

I don't particularly understand hali either.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Sandra is so wrong so often.

1 of the 2 people I really liked is now gone

And I saw it coming as soon as they were showing confessionals from the side.

so bad.

what was that with JT. seriously. I don't understand his move at all.
I somewhat feel even he didn't complete his move.

he could have easily told them to vote sandra.

I don't particularly understand hali either.

He did tell them to vote Sandra, they screwed him over to get an advantage for their own tribe. He started to cry.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

what was that with JT. seriously. I don't understand his move at all.
I somewhat feel even he didn't complete his move.

he could have easily told them to vote sandra.

Malcolm has said in his exit interviews that he was just being agreeable with JT and never seriously considered getting Sandra out. And Sandra's tribe wouldn't want her voted out because they are thinking of numbers long term. They need someone from the other tribe to go home. So JT had no chance of a direct assault on Sandra like you are suggesting.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I don't get why they targeted Siera.

Wanted to target a challenge threat and didn't want to target Brad. (At least Malcolm and JT didn't want to.)

[CrimsonFox]

then again Thai still a madman climbing things!

too bad he has no real allies

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mauchow

He did tell them to vote Sandra, they screwed him over to get an advantage for their own tribe. He started to cry.

oh did he? they didn't show that I think.

that's why i was confused. didn't seem like he told them to vote sandra

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

oh did he? they didn't show that I think.

that's why i was confused. didn't seem like he told them to vote sandra

Do you mean Brad's tribe or Malcolm's tribe? He definitely told Brad to vote Sandra multiple times. Brad wasn't interested in doing that because he wanted Malcolm out for challenge purposes.

And even if JT was successful at blindsiding Sandra, then he's a sitting duck at the next tribal.

[Draft Dodger]

that was an incredible tribal. what a brilliant idea to have two tribes go. it does suck that Malcolm is gone though.

[CrimsonFox]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I must admit I've never been that impressed with Sandra as a player.

Her original appearance she didn't really do much

but convincing JT not to play his idol and that he was safe was awesome.

So hilarious her faces.

Poor Aubry

Guess we know her true feelings now.

Glad Michaela is still there.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I must admit I've never been that impressed with Sandra as a player.

Her original appearance she didn't really do much

Huh? She won twice.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Huh? She won twice.

I think was very good in her first two seasons but not somebody who I would say deserved to be in the conversation of greatest survivor player of all time.

It's been awhile, but I remember her playing a solid but a bit behind the scenes game. She was fortunate in that she got to go against somebody in final tribal council that had been voted out and then got to come back.

Her second time around she played really well but I think Parvati played an all time great game in Heroes vs. Villains and due to the enormous Russell hate among players the jury voted against both Parvati and Russell in that final tribal council. Sandra deserved a runner-up (ahead of Russell but behind Parvati) finish that time.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Racer

I think was very good in her first two seasons but not somebody who I would say deserved to be in the conversation of greatest survivor player of all time.

It's been awhile, but I remember her playing a solid but a bit behind the scenes game. She was fortunate in that she got to go against somebody in final tribal council that had been voted out and then got to come back.

I suppose you could say she was fortunate, but it's not like she needed a weak person to be against. She would've beat most people that were around near the end. And I don't think she played under the radar (she was pretty loud and cocky back then, including several blow ups with Fairplay), she just weaved between alliances. She also made moves like dumping the fish (similar to the sugar here), which got someone else voted out, and blindsiding Burton at Final 5.

Her second time around she played really well but I think Parvati played an all time great game in Heroes vs. Villains and due to the enormous Russell hate among players the jury voted against both Parvati and Russell in that final tribal council. Sandra deserved a runner-up (ahead of Russell but behind Parvati) finish that time.

But this is part of the game. Sandra could tell how much people hated Russell. And so she presented herself as anti-Russell to the jury. That's good social gameplay and why she deserved to win.

[EagleFan]

Not sure how Sandra can't be viewed as the GOAT in survivor. Played twice, won twice. No one else has achieved that. Plus she is still there this time; when you would think that the two time winner would be the easiest early choice to be voted out.

This episode was great. Was glad it was JT that went home and Sandra played that perfectly. Made him feel comfortable and he goes home with an idol in his pocket.

Debbie has to go soon. She is annoying as hell. What was her issue with the first challenge? First she complains saying Brad told her to do that; even though she said she is good at it. Then she sucked and acted like she didn't. Then she refuses to do the balance portion of the next challenge. Which is it, were you forced into doing the balance the first time or did you want to do it?

[molson]

Survivor is my casual show I watch while I'm doing other things - I had to rewind it when Debbie was going on and on about them not letting her do the balance beam, I could of sworn that she did it and did it badly. And ya, I was right.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Survivor episode actually edit in a quick flashback like that to emphasize how crazy someone was acting. "You decide everything Brad!" (Flashback - Debbie: "I have great balance" Brad: "Great, you do that then".)

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Survivor episode actually edit in a quick flashback like that to emphasize how crazy someone was acting. "You decide everything Brad!" (Flashback - Debbie: "I have great balance" Brad: "Great, you do that then".)

Yeah, if they've ever done that before it's been extremely rare. And there were lots of times when it would have made sense. Shows how ridiculous the whole thing was.

Then her whole "I don't get mad... I'll vent a bit and then be fine" and she loses it again at the next challenge. She may be the least self-aware player they've ever had, and that's really saying something.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yeah, if they've ever done that before it's been extremely rare. And there were lots of times when it would have made sense. Shows how ridiculous the whole thing was.

Then her whole "I don't get mad... I'll vent a bit and then be fine" and she loses it again at the next challenge. She may be the least self-aware player they've ever had, and that's really saying something.

I remember doing that kind of thing wayway back in season one. I think they realized it was kinda amateurish. Although this case seemed more like....okay Debbie...we don't do this usually but we're calling you out on your bullshit

[EagleFan]

Spoiler

Cochran!!!!

[CrimsonFox]

Spoiler

Cochran!!!!!!!

Spoiler

wasted on debbie

Spoiler

I thought it might be Hatch come to join them

[CrimsonFox]

wtf tribal!

wtf!

wtf

Spoiler

tai is so ...so....soso...

why didn't he play his idol

he knew he could go home right there....

that was going to be a 2 idol in the pocket day

i'm so confused.

why would he say ozzy....that made no sense.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

wtf tribal!

wtf!

wtf

Spoiler

tai is so ...so....soso...

why didn't he play his idol

he knew he could go home right there.... I

that was going to be a 2 idol in the pocket day

i'm so confused.

why would he say ozzy....that made no sense.

+1

That made no sense in so many ways. It almost seemed like a scripted keep the audience in suspense moment.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Not sure how Sandra can't be viewed as the GOAT in survivor. Played twice, won twice. No one else has achieved that. Plus she is still there this time; when you would think that the two time winner would be the easiest early choice to be voted out.

This episode was great. Was glad it was JT that went home and Sandra played that perfectly. Made him feel comfortable and he goes home with an idol in his pocket.

yeah she was pretty damn impressive. She made some masterful moves. The way she axed JT and almost got Tai was amazing to watch.

and Tai = idiot

[Maple Leafs]

I was never really on the "Sandra = GOAT" bandwagon, but after this season I may have to admit I was wrong. She was fantastic.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

That made no sense in so many ways. It almost seemed like a scripted keep the audience in suspense moment.

The only way it made sense was if the whole thing was a setup to make Sandra/Jeff feel safe, in case they had an idol. Basically the same play that they'd just used on JT the episode before.

But yeah, seems like the simpler explanation is that Tai just can't handle the thinking part of the game.

[larrymcg421]

I think something happened at the end of the tribal council that made Tai feel safe. They cut this out of the show because it would've ruined the suspense.

Or they could've been acting out this plan, but left Tai out of it. Either way, there's no chance Ozzy would've consented to his name being thrown out at tribal council, so that part was definitely a mistake for Tai.

[LloydLungs]

Well, that's how you finish in 15th place and actually come out even more highly regarded than before. A masterful effort from Sandra who totally should've been out first and avoided that fate deftly. I actually think, if she had designs on coming back and winning an eventual all-winners season (which I still assume will happen at some point), she had to come out and lose one first to get that out of the way. But she played it as well as possible.

[General Mike]

If Tai had any clue how to actually play this game, he might be dangerous, but at this point I feel like he's more a candidate to leave with 2 immunity idols in his pocket, then to make the jury.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by General Mike

If Tai had any clue how to actually play this game, he might be dangerous, but at this point I feel like he's more a candidate to leave with 2 immunity idols in his pocket, then to make the jury.

this, so this

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by General Mike

If Tai had any clue how to actually play this game, he might be dangerous, but at this point I feel like he's more a candidate to leave with 2 immunity idols in his pocket, then to make the jury.

His social game reminds me a bit of Rupert. The clueless nice guy that says everything he's thinking and self righteously thinks he deserves to have everyone listen to him. HOwever, his mad skillz come from being able to get to idols like no one else.

All the scrambling and climbing

[General Mike]

Wow. Business just picked up. That was a very uncomfortable tribal council to watch.

[molson]

That was intense.

But I also kind of wanted to see Tai play his idol on Varner and blindside Ozzy after all that

[CrimsonFox]

That went into a weird spiral from the conversation with Sarah downward. That could have easily gone with Tai also being included to oust Ozzy.

THe tribal confused me really. Zeke spent a lot of his last season talking about how he is gay (especially on the reward challenge with the fireman)
I know transgender isn't necessarily gay but it kinda confused me why it was an "outing" now.

Granted Varner's ploy was....thoroughly lacking. Even the initial speech about deceit and that Zeke/Ozzy had a secret alliance. He didn't need that. If he felt he needed that then I guess he already knew Sarah and Andrea weren't biting.

Very surprised Ozzy is just so quiet while his name is bandied about

[molson]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I know transgender isn't necessarily gay but it kinda confused me why it was an "outing" now.

There was some personal reason he didn't tell anyone, and why it wasn't really out there publicly, so it was definitely an outing. He talked some about how he prefers for people to see him as Zeke and not as the guy that used to be a woman, I imagine that kind of thing is pretty common with transgender people. (Though people on the internet had figured it out, they recognized scars and found an article he wrote at Harvard where he talked about being a lesbian woman when he started school.)

It's amazing to me that Varner thought that this was going to work. That he would get two or three of the people in that tribe to change their plan and vote for a guy because he was transgender. Who did he think he was going to flip?

[larrymcg421]

On his podcast, Rob Cesternino pointed out that if Varner was successful, it's even worse. Imagine if the tribe did have a negative reaction to it and they all voted out Zeke because he was transgender. That would be horrifying.

[molson]

I guess casting is key. They were probably confident that there weren't cast members this season or last that were going to put together an anti-transgender alliance if this info had gotten out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Having seen the "trending" on this, I figured what reason there was for this thread to bump, so I'll ask a question:

Granted now, I haven't watched any of these sorts of shows since (checks Google for the date) 2003 when I sampled I'm A Celebrity ... but is there no thought about the possibility that this is simply a manufactured bit of hype contrived by the producers with one or more willing participant in the cast?

Not saying that it is or isn't, I'm just asking whether that possibility crosses the minds of viewers at some level beyond like 1:1 million chance.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Having seen the "trending" on this, I figured what reason there was for this thread to bump, so I'll ask a question:

Granted now, I haven't watched any of these sorts of shows since (checks Google for the date) 2003 when I sampled I'm A Celebrity ... but is there no thought about the possibility that this is simply a manufactured bit of hype contrived by the producers with one or more willing participant in the cast?

Not saying that it is or isn't, I'm just asking whether that possibility crosses the minds of viewers at some level beyond like 1:1 million chance.

There's no way that Jeff Varner would be willing to let himself be part of this contrivance considering it has completely ruined his reputation in front of millions of viewers. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that Varner/Zeke would be at tribal council. The producers would have had to rig the immunity challenge to make sure their tribe lost.

[molson]

The producers were aware of it and I'm sure that they were hopeful that it somehow become a source of drama for the show. Zeke had already been in one entire prior season without this coming up. I'm not saying they brought him back this season only for the possibility of a moment like this, but, I'm sure that was a consideration. And it was also probably important to cast a guy for that "role" who was out somewhat out in his personal life, and who was a strong person, so it wouldn't be THAT huge a deal if it came out on the show. And I'm sure that, with any reality show, they're planting seeds to try to unearth that drama.

But just like with sports league conspiracies, I don't think the risk/reward calculation works out to say, actually recruit Varner and Zeke to have this scripted moment. There's just too much that can backfire, and you really don't gain that much.