OT: PokerTracker and PokerAce HUD

[Huckleberry]

All told these two items are $80 to register. Here are my questions:

1.) What's the software support like? Do I get eternal patches for the current version and how often does a "new" version come out that represents enough of an advancement that I'd want to pay for?

2.) I really like to play poker mostly for fun. Obviously these things would help me do better, but I'm really very interested in seeing what kind of player I am. I have zero confidence in my ability to self-scout my poker game. Right now I'm just playing $1/$2 tables at Party Poker after taking a break for about a year with a new job and new kid. Seems like when I click the View Statistics option at Party I tend to be in the 20-25% range on flops seen. Seems reasonable. However, I tend to be in the 75% range or so on showdowns won. I take it to mean either I'm folding too much or the other guys aren't folding enough. Is the software even worth it for me based on all of this? I bought back into Party on 12/23 and my "bankroll" (what's a miniature roll called?) is 5 times what it started at, if that matters. Historically speaking it's probably just a very good run based on my past results.

The only reason I'm considering getting the software is because it feels kind of like it's paid for by the last week of play, I guess.

[GreenMonster]

I have pokertracker and its a great tool for limit players. It will show you all kinds of stats and things. The support at pokertracker is great, he updates it about every month with new features. I have never used PokerAce..

[Radii]

The support on both is great. PokerTracker had a major version upgrade that required a new purchase(at a reduced upgrade price if you already owned it) once in the last 3 years that i know of. PokerAceHUD was free for some time and only recently became pay software, I doubt it's going to be going through any changes anytime soon that would cause a major version/upgrade fee.

For my purposes, these two pieces of software are absolutely mandatory, but for a player who plays for fun and doesn't play a ton, I'm not sure. One thing you can consider though, I believe pokerAceHUD is free if you only use it on one table(I forget if that's over a certain time period or if that's the shareware version) at a time, so if you don't multi-table I'd check that out, you may not need the pay version at all. PokerTracker lets you import 1000 hands for free, so I would definitely do that, use it in conjunction w/ HUD during a trial period and you can probably decide for yourself if its worth the money to you.

As for the showdown % won on Party, I'm not convinced that works as you think it would(and should). I know it was very broken for awhile, but now I just totally ignore it.

[GreenMonster]

Radii since I haven't propped in almost a year, what in the heck is PokerAce. Is it like the older HUD plugins that worked with pokertracker or much better. Pokertracker is much, much better product then when it first came out and you had to manually get all the hand histories and import them. Took like 10 minutes to get 100 hands of history from Absolute.

[QuikSand]

Both programs are wonderful, extremely useful, and very well supported.

If you're playing with any regularity, and have any interest in improving your game... these are essential tools. Poker tracker especially (which I think is just obvious), but having a quick snapshot of each player's stats and the quick look at their called hands (both from PAHUD) is a great complement.

There's absolutely zero doubt in my mind that these two programs have paid for themselve many times over for me.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Radii since I haven't propped in almost a year, what in the heck is PokerAce. Is it like the older HUD plugins that worked with pokertracker or much better. Pokertracker is much, much better product then when it first came out and you had to manually get all the hand histories and import them. Took like 10 minutes to get 100 hands of history from Absolute.

Its a standalone program that pulls information from your pokertracker database and overlays stats about each player on your tables. Its highly customizable(you can have it display any stat you want and you can set up the color schemes and what data gets displayed). For sites that support it, it will also show you, on the table, the mucked cards from the previous hand so you don't have to dig through instant hand histories to find the info.

it can be found: http://pokeracesoftware.com/hud/

screenshots at: http://pokeracesoftware.com/hud/screenshots.php


The added efficiency in pokertracker is awesome, but Ithink the credit goes to the poker sites themselves. The big change was when a site like partypoker started offering the option to write the hands to your hard drive in real time instead of forcing you to request them every half hour or so. This allowed for a tracker upgrade that could import those hands in near real time(I set mine up to import every minute when I'm playing) and then these HUD programs can pull data in near real time and display it on the tables.

[MJ4H]

I own both. I do not disagree that they are both wonderful and essential if you play limit hold'em.

I don't and I rarely use either. I do sometimes, but not regularly at all. I have no doubt I would not suffer at all if I never owned either. When I did play limit hold'em, which I stopped recently, I used both all the time for that. Absolutely wonderful. It really does very little of importance for NL or PL hold'em, tournaments, or other games (only omaha is supported in a totally separate PT version which I also own).

It has some value, again, for limit omaha, which I do play from time to time, but not as much as PL Omaha hi/lo, which it has not nearly as much value for (referring to poker tracker here). It is still useful, don't get me wrong, but it is nowhere near the "essential" for games other than limit hold'em that it is for limit hold'em.

Just my 2 small bets worth.

[Huckleberry]

Well, I'll be playing limit hold'em for the most part, but I appreciate the information.

I'm assuming that the ways these things help is two-fold. One is that you periodically review your stats to see what they say about your play. There are probably some sources out there that can give you best guesses as to ranges where you want to see your numbers fall within. The other is the opponent information. I don't know what all of the acronyms mean yet, but I assume you get to the point eventually where just looking at their displayed information can tell you if they're loose, tight, passive, aggressive, etc.

Right?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Well, I'll be playing limit hold'em for the most part, but I appreciate the information.

I'm assuming that the ways these things help is two-fold. One is that you periodically review your stats to see what they say about your play. There are probably some sources out there that can give you best guesses as to ranges where you want to see your numbers fall within. The other is the opponent information. I don't know what all of the acronyms mean yet, but I assume you get to the point eventually where just looking at their displayed information can tell you if they're loose, tight, passive, aggressive, etc.

Right?

All correct. You'll pick all of that up quickly.

[GrantDawg]

Just to jump off topic a bit, but what is the best poker site? I've just started, and have been fooling with the free party poker right now.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Just to jump off topic a bit, but what is the best poker site? I've just started, and have been fooling with the free party poker right now.

Everyone has their preferences. Personally, I like PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, but I'm only playing at Stars right now.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

what is the best poker site? I've just started, and have been fooling with the free party poker right now.

The short answer is that Party is the best site, in my opinion. Their players are the most exploitable. For tournaments, I prefer the more leisurely structure at PokerStars.

The longer answer is that it depends on a lot of things. Are bonuses important to you? What games do you play? Limit, pot limit, or no limit? Ring games, sit-and-gos, or multi-table tournaments? How aggressive are you? How loose are you? And probably a dozen things more that I haven't mentioned.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

The short answer is that Party is the best site, in my opinion. Their players are the most exploitable. For tournaments, I prefer the more leisurely structure at PokerStars.

The longer answer is that it depends on a lot of things. Are bonuses important to you? What games do you play? Limit, pot limit, or no limit? Ring games, sit-and-gos, or multi-table tournaments? How aggressive are you? How loose are you? And probably a dozen things more that I haven't mentioned.

Does it help that I have no idea what most of what you said means?

[Huckleberry]

GrantDawg -

I would stick with PartyPoker to start. When I first jumped into the real money games, Party was the site that I could win at. That's why I'm playing Party exclusively right now after taking the year or so off.

I pretty much just treaded water at PokerStars when I first played for the real stuff. However, those are the only two I've tried recently (within the 3-4 months prior to my layoff), so my advice isn't expert in any way.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Does it help that I have no idea what most of what you said means?

Yes it does, actually. Stick with Party. You'll probably lose less there than anywhere at the same limits. There are others that have lower limits (like 1 cent - 2 cent blinds), so if you're itching to play for tiny (but real) stakes, go somewhere else.

Some brief definitions of what I said:

Bonus - Most online casinos offer bonuses for the first deposit. For example, if you deposit $100 at Casino X, they may give you $20 free if you play 200 raked hands.
Games - All poker sites offer Hold'em, most offer Omaha (high, low, or split high/low) and 7-card stud (high or low). Some offer 5-card stud, 5-card draw, and more estoteric games.
Limit, pot limit, no limit - Limit has fixed betting limits for each round of betting. Pot limit means you can bet any amount up to what's in the pot. No limit means you can bet any amount up to what you or your opponents have. Steer clear of pot limit and no limit unless either (a) you have a big bankroll that you're willing to lose quickly, or (b) you know what you're doing.
Ring, sit-and-go, multi-table - Ring games are cash games - what you win you can cash right away. Sit-and-gos are (usually) single table tournaments that start when a table fills with people who pay an entry fee. The last person standing wins about half the prize pool, but 2nd and 3rd also win prizes. Multi-table tournaments are like the ones you see on TV - hundreds and sometimes thousands of people compete against each other to get a huge prize, and some smaller prizes.
Aggression - Aggression pays in most forms of poker most of the time. Aggressive players tend to bet and raise. Passive players tend to check and call.
Loose - Loose players play a lot of hands. Tight players play relatively few hands.

[Flasch186]

which poker sites support which "helper" software?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Just to jump off topic a bit, but what is the best poker site? I've just started, and have been fooling with the free party poker right now.

I'd agree that Partypoker has the most fish(poor players) but it really depends on how much money you're willing to risk when you want to play. If you're starting with less than $500 (and most certainly less than $300) or if you really don't want to put a huge risk on what you deposit initially, I'd consider Pokerstars because they have lower limit tables. The lowest limit at Party Poker is .5/1 (50 cents/1 dollar), meaning betting inthe first two rounds are in increments of 50 cents, last two rounds, 1 dollar. Pokerstars has 4 levels below that if you want to play real cheap at first, going as far down as .02/.04 (2 cent/4 cent) or .05/.10, .25/.50, etc.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

which poker sites support which "helper" software?

Huge lists for each of the big ones being discussed here.

http://pokertracker.com/ptsupported.html - Pokertracker.

http://pokeracesoftware.com/hud/ - the list is on the front page.

[Maple Leafs]

This doesn't seem worth it's own thread, so I'll bump this and ask it here...

In Poker Tracker, when looking at known starting hands how is it possible to have a positive Avg/Hand stat but a negative BB/hand, or vice versa? Do they measure the same thing, or am I misunderstanding one or both?

[Maple Leafs]

Looking at my tournament stats... General Info tab.... Known starting hands section (at the bottom)

[QuikSand]

If you're playing different levels, and have widely varying results at them, it could happen. Within any one level, it should stay in complete synch.

[Maple Leafs]

Ah, I see. So I may lose more than I win with a hand (negative BB/hand) but if the wins are disproportionately at high levels then my Avg/Hand is up?

I only have 5,000 hands are so, so it's very possible.

By the way, where could I find info on "good" stats to have across the board for categories like VP$IP, etc?

[QuikSand]

(I confess, I am not too familiar with the tournament stats in PT... I'm referencing the limit stats, but I suspect the answer is still correct).

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Ah, I see. So I may lose more than I win with a hand (negative BB/hand) but if the wins are disproportionately at high levels then my Avg/Hand is up?

Yes yes.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

By the way, where could I find info on "good" stats to have across the board for categories like VP$IP, etc?

I think the forums at PokerTracker's website often include this sort of discussion... and there is often some at 2+2 as well.