FOF 2004 - Information on players WAY out of position

QuikSand · 11-19-2003, 05:03 AM

There have been reports of FOF 2004 slotting players *far* out of their intended positions. Punters getting running stats and lots of tackles, offensive linemen catching multiple passes, linebackers getting 100 rushing attempt -- that sort of thing. Clearly there is some sort of bug going on.

So far, what has been reported here has been basically "I have this problem, it's a bug." Let's see if we, collectively, might be able to do something to help better identify the problem.

If you have found this kind of problem in your FOF4 game, please post here with some details. At the very least, though, please include this information:

-what player (from what position) is getting the weird stats, in what category?
-how many active players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there?
-how many total players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there?
-are you aware of any serious injuries to the position that shoudl have been getting the stats there?
-are you using a saved game plan that you downloaded from somewhere, or that you created and saved yourself? (If the former, which one)
-how are you setting your depth chart? (scouts do it globally, scout recommends, or doing it manually)?
-what is your setting for "using players in position" (from your depth chart screen... I have that worded not quite right, I fear)

...and of, course, anything else that you think might be important.

Thanks in advance for your help - extra sets of eyes on something like this should be helpful to Jim in locating the source of the bug. It would be nice to get this wiped out in the first patch.

QuikSand · 11-19-2003, 05:06 AM

Just thought of this... if you are either watching your games play out, or are saving game logs -- do you actually see the out-of-position player listed in the play-by-play? (There's some suspicion that the stats are just showing up under the wrong player... I'm thinking that perhaps the game logs show your RB3 getting the carries, but the stats are errantly being credited to the wrong guy... confirming/refuting this would be helpful).

Northwood_DK · 11-19-2003, 05:12 AM

Hei Quik,

Do you by any chance use the "runwideoftenthrowdeep offense".

fantastic flying froggies · 11-19-2003, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Just thought of this... if you are either watching your games play out, or are saving game logs -- do you actually see the out-of-position player listed in the play-by-play? (There's some suspicion that the stats are just showing up under the wrong player... I'm thinking that perhaps the game logs show your RB3 getting the carries, but the stats are errantly being credited to the wrong guy... confirming/refuting this would be helpful).

In my case of passing to non receivers, they are indeed listed in the game log (i only quick sim).

fantastic flying froggies · 11-19-2003, 06:48 AM

what player (from what position) is getting the weird stats, in what category?

I have G, C, CB, S, ILB and even P either receiving passes or being targetted.

Code:

  Player              Pos Team  GP GS Targ Ctch Yards Avg   YAC   Lg   TD  
South, Dre'           WR  MIN   16 16 216  123  1734  14.0  297   45   11     
Sonkin, Damien        TE  MIN   16 12 125  86   881   10.2  249   30   6      
Harvey, Charlie       WR  MIN   16 16 82   54   700   12.9  103   47   2      
Cotter, Jimmy         TE  MIN   16 9  58   52   341   6.5   145   18   0      
McKinney, Oliver      RB  MIN   16 16 32   24   200   8.3   106   24   2      
McEwen, Ryan          WR  MIN   16 3  31   19   246   12.9  23    45   2      
Walker, Paul          G   MIN   11 11 6    5    24    4.8   19    8    0      
Gupta, Grant          RB  MIN   16 0  5    5    25    5.0   19    13   1      
White, Orlando        WR  MIN   14 3  10   5    54    10.8  3     20   0      
Roupenian, Ty         RB  MIN   16 0  9    4    22    5.5   10    11   0      
Palmer, Derek         FB  MIN   16 2  5    4    21    5.2   3     8    0      
Oroumieh, Jimmy       CB  MIN   16 5  4    2    29    14.5  6     16   0      
Reese, Priest         C   MIN   16 16 4    2    20    10.0  4     13   0      
Roberts, Brock        S   MIN   11 0  2    2    3     1.5   2     4    0      
Gameau, Marc          G   MIN   10 1  3    2    11    5.5   3     8    0      
Kuffrey, Vic          ILB MIN   16 15 1    1    3     3.0   3     3    0      
Thomson, Jim          ILB MIN   16 8  1    0    0     0.0   0     0    0

-how many active players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there?

After thinking about it, that may be my problem. I think I was carrying only 1 FB and 2 TE at that time, so maybe on some sets or if one guy was injured, the AI substituted someone else...

-how many total players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there?

Usually 4 or 5 WR, 2 or 3 TE and 1 FB.

-are you aware of any serious injuries to the position that shoudl have been getting the stats there?

not that I know of.

-are you using a saved game plan that you downloaded from somewhere, or that you created and saved yourself? (If the former, which one)

No download, no creation. Just run of the mill stuff.

-how are you setting your depth chart? (scouts do it globally, scout recommends, or doing it manually)?

manually

-what is your setting for "using players in position" (from your depth chart screen... I have that worded not quite right, I fear)

10 (don't worry, I understood what you meant)

I do have game logs and box scores available for upload if someone needs to review them.

QuikSand · 11-19-2003, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
Do you by any chance use the "runwideoftenthrowdeep offense".

I know that at least two people who have reported problems like these were using that particular game plan. I have never seen this problem in my games, so I have no data to add to this discussion -- I'm just trying to help assemble what we know together, for purposes of identifying possible root causes.

QuikSand · 11-19-2003, 07:33 AM

This might be too detailed a question for every person to submit - but here is one possible expanation for why this might be happening.

Maybe the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan (along with others, I'm sure) has a variety of places where it specifically tries to use players who are way down the depth chart -- RB3, maybe FB2, maybe TE3, that sort of thing. Could it be that for teams who have shallower starting lineups at these positions, the problems occur?

I still don't see how a punter ought to end up with 100+ tackles, or as a team's leading rusher... but this might be part of an explanation.

fantastic flying froggies · 11-19-2003, 07:42 AM

I actually think we 're in front of 2 different problems here.

One, just like mine , where out of position players receive the occasional stat. Answer to that one is probably what QS just wrote.

Maybe the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan (along with others, I'm sure) has a variety of places where it specifically tries to use players who are way down the depth chart -- RB3, maybe FB2, maybe TE3, that sort of thing. Could it be that for teams who have shallower starting lineups at these positions, the problems occur?

Two, with clearly abnormal stats.

I still don't see how a punter ought to end up with 100+ tackles, or as a team's leading rusher... but this might be part of an explanation.

That is probably a problem of stats being assigned to the wrong player...

QuikSand · 11-19-2003, 07:46 AM

Good theory.

Northwood_DK · 11-19-2003, 07:55 AM

How old is the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan? If I am not wrong it was made for FOF4. Can it be some mix-up when you use old gameplans with the new game?

Why is this only happening in the 2nd year and forward? I have never seen this the first season.

QuikSand · 11-19-2003, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Northwood_DK
How old is the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan? If I am not wrong it was made for FOF4. Can it be some mix-up when you use old gameplans with the new game?

FOF 2004 is the first version that has the ability to save and load gameplans.

Calis · 11-19-2003, 10:08 AM

-what player (from what position) is getting the weird stats, in what category?

My SLB is getting rushing stats.

-how many active players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there?

3. He actually appears to be splitting time, my LB has 176 rushes, and my RB who is 2nd on my depth chart nabbed 167 carries. So I would take it that it's just completely ignoring the first slot, or replacing it with the LB.

-are you aware of any serious injuries to the position that shoudl have been getting the stats there?

No injuries to any backs.

-are you using a saved game plan that you downloaded from somewhere, or that you created and saved yourself?

Do believe I tried that Runwithdeep or whatever it was gameplan with this game.

-how are you setting your depth chart? (scouts do it globally, scout recommends, or doing it manually)?

I do a little of scouts recommend, and manual.

-what is your setting for "using players in position" (from your depth chart screen... I have that worded not quite right, I fear)

7.

I watch my games and it does show in the PbP as Herb(My LB) getting the carries. In my case as you can tell from the stats, he's not getting the occasional nod, but is starting every game both ways.

I've only had issues with this happening in this one dynasty, and I've played through probably a dozen just fiddling around. This is my only one using that gameplan though, but it appears people are running into the problem without that, so that throws out my easy answer.

If you need any more info, shoot. I'll be sitting around most of the day playing, so I've got time.

Solecismic · 11-19-2003, 05:11 PM

I'm looking into this one right now. It's not happening in any of my test universes.

Questions...

1) How many active players do you have?

2) How many active RBs do you have?

3) How many active WRs and TEs do you have?

4) Are there any of these odd players showing up in the depth chart?

5) Are you using the player file that came with the game?

6) Are you past year 1?

7) Does this ever happen in year 1?

Thanks. Clearly this is the most important fix for the patch.

Celeval · 11-19-2003, 05:15 PM

Hey, guys -

The runwidethrowdeep posted plan was created with the FIRST version of the FOF5 demo. It did not have the personnel groups in the export, as the later versions did.

If this as an incomplete export is being imported into FOF5, that could /definately/ be a reason for players getting played in places other than their own.

Has this happened to anyone who HASN'T used this (or another saved gameplan from the first version of the demo)?

Kevin

Solecismic · 11-19-2003, 05:25 PM

That might help. If someone could email me that plan, I'll check that out. It would be quite a relief if that were the cause.

Ben E Lou · 11-19-2003, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Solecismic
That might help. If someone could email me that plan, I'll check that out. It would be quite a relief if that were the cause.

I'm looking all around for it, and can't find it. I never downloaded it myself, but no search is working for me. Anyone?

Sidhe · 11-19-2003, 05:35 PM

I know I'm only one guy, but I don't use the gameplanner, and I've *never* seen the phenomena. I just went looking, and my linebackers get 0 carries.

Celeval · 11-19-2003, 06:31 PM

I've got it, sending to you, Jim.

Kevin

Fonzie · 11-19-2003, 06:51 PM

I know that the personnel groupings with the "runwidethrowdeep" game plan listed TE1 for both TE slots in a 2-tight end formation. This resulted, apparently, in my TE running the ball a fair amount.

Solecismic · 11-19-2003, 07:20 PM

Thanks for sending the plan. No doubt that would cause weird rushing and pass receiving results.

Did anyone seeing this problem NOT load a game plan created before I updated the demo?

Someone posted a punter screen shot with 100 tackles, though. I don't think that would be explained by this. Could the person who posted that please answer 1/5/6/7 above?

Calis · 11-19-2003, 07:29 PM

Jim, I used the gameplan, so this might be a moot point, but I'll go ahead and put my answers down here in case it does help.

I never ran into any receiving problems, just with the SLB playing RB, with 3 healthy RB's in the depth chart. He ended up with 176 carries, splitting with the #2 RB on my depth chart, with the #1 guy never seeing the field.

Anyway, I haven't ran across anything like it in my other dynasties, just the one with this game plan.

1) How many active players do you have?
46

2) How many active RBs do you have?
3

3) How many active WRs and TEs do you have?
3 TE's
4 WR's
No Problems with this

4) Are there any of these odd players showing up in the depth chart?
No

5) Are you using the player file that came with the game?
No, using HeavyReign's Fictional Roster Creator

6) Are you past year 1?
Yes

7) Does this ever happen in year 1?
Not that I've seen.

11-19-2003, 06:48 AM	#5
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	Re: FOF 2004 - Information on players WAY out of position what player (from what position) is getting the weird stats, in what category? I have G, C, CB, S, ILB and even P either receiving passes or being targetted. Code: Player Pos Team GP GS Targ Ctch Yards Avg YAC Lg TD South, Dre' WR MIN 16 16 216 123 1734 14.0 297 45 11 Sonkin, Damien TE MIN 16 12 125 86 881 10.2 249 30 6 Harvey, Charlie WR MIN 16 16 82 54 700 12.9 103 47 2 Cotter, Jimmy TE MIN 16 9 58 52 341 6.5 145 18 0 McKinney, Oliver RB MIN 16 16 32 24 200 8.3 106 24 2 McEwen, Ryan WR MIN 16 3 31 19 246 12.9 23 45 2 Walker, Paul G MIN 11 11 6 5 24 4.8 19 8 0 Gupta, Grant RB MIN 16 0 5 5 25 5.0 19 13 1 White, Orlando WR MIN 14 3 10 5 54 10.8 3 20 0 Roupenian, Ty RB MIN 16 0 9 4 22 5.5 10 11 0 Palmer, Derek FB MIN 16 2 5 4 21 5.2 3 8 0 Oroumieh, Jimmy CB MIN 16 5 4 2 29 14.5 6 16 0 Reese, Priest C MIN 16 16 4 2 20 10.0 4 13 0 Roberts, Brock S MIN 11 0 2 2 3 1.5 2 4 0 Gameau, Marc G MIN 10 1 3 2 11 5.5 3 8 0 Kuffrey, Vic ILB MIN 16 15 1 1 3 3.0 3 3 0 Thomson, Jim ILB MIN 16 8 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 -how many active players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there? After thinking about it, that may be my problem. I think I was carrying only 1 FB and 2 TE at that time, so maybe on some sets or if one guy was injured, the AI substituted someone else... -how many total players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there? Usually 4 or 5 WR, 2 or 3 TE and 1 FB. -are you aware of any serious injuries to the position that shoudl have been getting the stats there? not that I know of. -are you using a saved game plan that you downloaded from somewhere, or that you created and saved yourself? (If the former, which one) No download, no creation. Just run of the mill stuff. -how are you setting your depth chart? (scouts do it globally, scout recommends, or doing it manually)? manually -what is your setting for "using players in position" (from your depth chart screen... I have that worded not quite right, I fear) 10 (don't worry, I understood what you meant) I do have game logs and box scores available for upload if someone needs to review them. __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

11-19-2003, 07:42 AM	#8
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	I actually think we 're in front of 2 different problems here. One, just like mine , where out of position players receive the occasional stat. Answer to that one is probably what QS just wrote. Maybe the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan (along with others, I'm sure) has a variety of places where it specifically tries to use players who are way down the depth chart -- RB3, maybe FB2, maybe TE3, that sort of thing. Could it be that for teams who have shallower starting lineups at these positions, the problems occur? Two, with clearly abnormal stats. I still don't see how a punter ought to end up with 100+ tackles, or as a team's leading rusher... but this might be part of an explanation. That is probably a problem of stats being assigned to the wrong player... __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

11-19-2003, 05:06 AM	#2
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Just thought of this... if you are either watching your games play out, or are saving game logs -- do you actually see the out-of-position player listed in the play-by-play? (There's some suspicion that the stats are just showing up under the wrong player... I'm thinking that perhaps the game logs show your RB3 getting the carries, but the stats are errantly being credited to the wrong guy... confirming/refuting this would be helpful).

11-19-2003, 05:12 AM	#3
Northwood_DK College Benchwarmer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Back in Norway	Hei Quik, Do you by any chance use the "runwideoftenthrowdeep offense".

11-19-2003, 07:33 AM	#7
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	This might be too detailed a question for every person to submit - but here is one possible expanation for why this might be happening. Maybe the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan (along with others, I'm sure) has a variety of places where it specifically tries to use players who are way down the depth chart -- RB3, maybe FB2, maybe TE3, that sort of thing. Could it be that for teams who have shallower starting lineups at these positions, the problems occur? I still don't see how a punter ought to end up with 100+ tackles, or as a team's leading rusher... but this might be part of an explanation.

11-19-2003, 07:46 AM	#9
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Good theory.

11-19-2003, 07:55 AM	#10
Northwood_DK College Benchwarmer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Back in Norway	How old is the "runwideoftenthrowdeep" game plan? If I am not wrong it was made for FOF4. Can it be some mix-up when you use old gameplans with the new game? Why is this only happening in the 2nd year and forward? I have never seen this the first season.

11-19-2003, 10:08 AM	#12
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	-what player (from what position) is getting the weird stats, in what category? My SLB is getting rushing stats. -how many active players do you have at the position that should be getting the stats there? 3. He actually appears to be splitting time, my LB has 176 rushes, and my RB who is 2nd on my depth chart nabbed 167 carries. So I would take it that it's just completely ignoring the first slot, or replacing it with the LB. -are you aware of any serious injuries to the position that shoudl have been getting the stats there? No injuries to any backs. -are you using a saved game plan that you downloaded from somewhere, or that you created and saved yourself? Do believe I tried that Runwithdeep or whatever it was gameplan with this game. -how are you setting your depth chart? (scouts do it globally, scout recommends, or doing it manually)? I do a little of scouts recommend, and manual. -what is your setting for "using players in position" (from your depth chart screen... I have that worded not quite right, I fear) 7. I watch my games and it does show in the PbP as Herb(My LB) getting the carries. In my case as you can tell from the stats, he's not getting the occasional nod, but is starting every game both ways. I've only had issues with this happening in this one dynasty, and I've played through probably a dozen just fiddling around. This is my only one using that gameplan though, but it appears people are running into the problem without that, so that throws out my easy answer. If you need any more info, shoot. I'll be sitting around most of the day playing, so I've got time.

11-19-2003, 05:11 PM	#13
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I'm looking into this one right now. It's not happening in any of my test universes. Questions... 1) How many active players do you have? 2) How many active RBs do you have? 3) How many active WRs and TEs do you have? 4) Are there any of these odd players showing up in the depth chart? 5) Are you using the player file that came with the game? 6) Are you past year 1? 7) Does this ever happen in year 1? Thanks. Clearly this is the most important fix for the patch.

11-19-2003, 05:15 PM	#14
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	Hey, guys - The runwidethrowdeep posted plan was created with the FIRST version of the FOF5 demo. It did not have the personnel groups in the export, as the later versions did. If this as an incomplete export is being imported into FOF5, that could /definately/ be a reason for players getting played in places other than their own. Has this happened to anyone who HASN'T used this (or another saved gameplan from the first version of the demo)? Kevin

11-19-2003, 05:25 PM	#15
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	That might help. If someone could email me that plan, I'll check that out. It would be quite a relief if that were the cause.

11-19-2003, 05:35 PM	#17
Sidhe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NOVA USA	I know I'm only one guy, but I don't use the gameplanner, and I've never seen the phenomena. I just went looking, and my linebackers get 0 carries.

11-19-2003, 06:31 PM	#18
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	I've got it, sending to you, Jim. Kevin

11-19-2003, 06:51 PM	#19
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	I know that the personnel groupings with the "runwidethrowdeep" game plan listed TE1 for both TE slots in a 2-tight end formation. This resulted, apparently, in my TE running the ball a fair amount.

11-19-2003, 07:20 PM	#20
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Thanks for sending the plan. No doubt that would cause weird rushing and pass receiving results. Did anyone seeing this problem NOT load a game plan created before I updated the demo? Someone posted a punter screen shot with 100 tackles, though. I don't think that would be explained by this. Could the person who posted that please answer 1/5/6/7 above?

11-19-2003, 07:29 PM	#21
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Jim, I used the gameplan, so this might be a moot point, but I'll go ahead and put my answers down here in case it does help. I never ran into any receiving problems, just with the SLB playing RB, with 3 healthy RB's in the depth chart. He ended up with 176 carries, splitting with the #2 RB on my depth chart, with the #1 guy never seeing the field. Anyway, I haven't ran across anything like it in my other dynasties, just the one with this game plan. 1) How many active players do you have? 46 2) How many active RBs do you have? 3 3) How many active WRs and TEs do you have? 3 TE's 4 WR's No Problems with this 4) Are there any of these odd players showing up in the depth chart? No 5) Are you using the player file that came with the game? No, using HeavyReign's Fictional Roster Creator 6) Are you past year 1? Yes 7) Does this ever happen in year 1? Not that I've seen.

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