PureSim 4 - Raising the Baseball Text Sim Bar

[Shaun Sullivan]

We are in the home stretch for PureSim Baseball 4. All new features are complete, locked down and looking great. We are just working through a dwindling list of minor bugs and play balance issues. It is all available in Beta form today for anyone who wants to poke around.

I was doing some testing today of the real player stats engine and it is uncanny how good/realistic it is at this point. I simmed 1982 and it was amazingly close. I don't think any game besides maybe Diamond Mind comes close, and they have individual season disks that must be purchased.

I'd love to get comments from any Baseball nuts out there, since obviously, I am probably a tad biased

I'm so confident this year, that PS4 has 2 versions. Full and a FREE "PureSim Lite" edition. So you can try it out without forking over any cash if you are interested. Or, you can pre-order the game now and start playing the full version (in beta) from now through release, which is 3/22. You save $5 if you buy it now too. The full version will be $29.95 at release and it is $24.95 now through 3/15.

I am really proud of this version. I don't think any game on the market can touch PureSim as far as statistical accuracy and AI. Links to all versions and info can be found here:

Suldog Studios - Home

[DaddyTorgo]

Wow - looks like a lot of new features and tweaks - gotta check this puppy out!

[Ksyrup]

Bought it last night. I think this is going to be my baseball sim this year. I loved OOTP, but it's basically been nothing more than a history simulation game for me the last couple of versions. I actually played PS3 and enjoyed it more as an actual game.

[Young Drachma]

I'm an OOTP stan, mostly because I like to sim fast, I need expansion and other frills and I like financials. But I'll check out this free version, as I haven't played Puresim in a while and I'm curious to see how it's improved.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm an OOTP stan, mostly because I like to sim fast, I need expansion and other frills and I like financials. But I'll check out this free version, as I haven't played Puresim in a while and I'm curious to see how it's improved.

Expansion (both automatic historically correct expansion and user initiated custom expansion) is there, as well as financials. OOTP beats the pants off PS in sim speed, but PS is way faster than it use to be. Playing as GM for a few season in one sitting, hopping in to do trades, free agent deals, peruse game logs, etc flows fine. BTW, PS's Trade AI blows away OOTP, especially in regards to humans trying to rob the AI

If you want to blow through like 25 seasons super fast though, I would go with Baseball Mogul. That game sims games ridiculously fast (and it has decent results too).

[stevew]

how the ai?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm an OOTP stan, mostly because I like to sim fast, I need expansion and other frills and I like financials. But I'll check out this free version, as I haven't played Puresim in a while and I'm curious to see how it's improved.

Though the financials are not as deep as OOTP they are still good for what is there.

Trade AI is a lot tougher and the historical play is excellent, I think you will be happy with it.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

Expansion (both automatic historically correct expansion and user initiated custom expansion) is there, as well as financials. OOTP beats the pants off PS in sim speed, but PS is way faster than it use to be. Playing as GM for a few season in one sitting, hopping in to do trades, free agent deals, peruse game logs, etc flows fine. BTW, PS's Trade AI blows away OOTP, especially in regards to humans trying to rob the AI

If you want to blow through like 25 seasons super fast though, I would go with Baseball Mogul. That game sims games ridiculously fast (and it has decent results too).

I graduated from Baseball Mogul a long, long time ago. I need more depth to go with my speed than that.

But thanks. I'm checking out PS4 now.

[JPhillips]

I tried to manage a game in the Lite version and as the ball was coming down for the first out the screen went crazy, black with vertical multicolor lines. Had to hard restart to get out of it.

[SnowMan]

Very interested Shaun, I'm glad you're still making games after all the ups and downs over the years. I'll definitely give this PS a shot like I have the rest of them. I love supporting indie game makers, knowing that most of the money actually ends up in their pockets and not some publisher somewhere. Keep up the great work!

[Drake]

Your enthusiasm sold me. I'm giving Puresim a try again this year.

I didn't dislike PS2 or whatever the last version was that I bought. I just only have time/headspace for one baseball sim in my gaming universe, and I've been an OOTP guy for years. (I've already pre-ordered OOTP12, too, though I think I played less than 100 hours of v11 last year.)

But the PS series has always had features that I loved, and I appreciate quality text sim development, so regardless of how much play I end up getting out of it, small developers who are putting out solid products are worth $25 to me as an investment in the genre.

I hope this is your biggest release ever, Shaun. You do good work.

[Logan]

Mac?

[tarcone]

I will be buying this as well. I broke out my old statis pro board game during the snow days. That has me geared up for a good baseball sim. I really enjoyed the free version of the game. So I imagine this one will be outstanding.

[MizzouRah]

I've purchased both ootp 12 and Puresim 4.

Wish I had more time to test PS4, but lynchjm is over there testing the fictional stuff.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I've purchased both ootp 12 and Puresim 4.

Wish I had more time to test PS4, but lynchjm is over there testing the fictional stuff.

I have too, Puresim is a blast, I'm playing some historical with it.

[Ksyrup]

OK, so I have a question about league setup.

Say I want to start a fictional league with my own team cities/names. I don't see any way to create the league with the cities and nicknames I want before the league is created. So I have to pick a preset league structure, guess or just randomly choose what kind of markets I want, and then go in to each team and change them, right? Or am I missing something?

And when I go into each team, the market size is already preset for that team regardless of whether I manually change the region or not. For instance, if I take a team that was randomly chosen to be in NY, NY, and I edit the region (which simply looks like I'm just giving it a new name, it doesn't appear to actually change the region) to be Texas and put the team in Brownsville, it still says Brownsville - NY under the name and I have to manually change the climate and (I guess?) leave the finances alone (or else I''ll throw the whole thing out of whack because contracts have already been doled out to all the players based on the market size/payroll, right?). So basically, I've functionally got a NYC (big market) team manually placed in Brownsville, TX with a manually-edited climate.

That's the process I went through last night when trying to create my own league. Is that the way it's supposed to work, or did I completely miss something? I'd really like the oportunity to set up my own markets and teams at the outset, rather than have to manually edit them afterwards. One, it's a pain in the butt, and two, I don't see how to change the size of the market once the league's been created, players have been signed, and the teams' payrolls are set.

This is either a request for help on how to do this correctly, or a request for a design change. Which one is it? I don't think I ever have, or ever will, play out a league where I just let the game randomly choose which cities I play with, yet that seems to be the only way to set up a league at this point. So that's why I'm confused. Or stupid. Or a little of both.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

OK, so I have a question about league setup.

Say I want to start a fictional league with my own team cities/names. I don't see any way to create the league with the cities and nicknames I want before the league is created. So I have to pick a preset league structure, guess or just randomly choose what kind of markets I want, and then go in to each team and change them, right? Or am I missing something?

And when I go into each team, the market size is already preset for that team regardless of whether I manually change the region or not. For instance, if I take a team that was randomly chosen to be in NY, NY, and I edit the region (which simply looks like I'm just giving it a new name, it doesn't appear to actually change the region) to be Texas and put the team in Brownsville, it still says Brownsville - NY under the name and I have to manually change the climate and (I guess?) leave the finances alone (or else I''ll throw the whole thing out of whack because contracts have already been doled out to all the players based on the market size/payroll, right?). So basically, I've functionally got a NYC (big market) team manually placed in Brownsville, TX with a manually-edited climate.

That's the process I went through last night when trying to create my own league. Is that the way it's supposed to work, or did I completely miss something? I'd really like the oportunity to set up my own markets and teams at the outset, rather than have to manually edit them afterwards. One, it's a pain in the butt, and two, I don't see how to change the size of the market once the league's been created, players have been signed, and the teams' payrolls are set.

This is either a request for help on how to do this correctly, or a request for a design change. Which one is it? I don't think I ever have, or ever will, play out a league where I just let the game randomly choose which cities I play with, yet that seems to be the only way to set up a league at this point. So that's why I'm confused. Or stupid. Or a little of both.

Yes, this is totally a supported set of features. Maybe you chose "Quick Start?" Anyway, you can customize league configurations, team regions, team names, team finances, colors, logos etc.

[Ksyrup]

I chose the Quick Start because that looked like the only one I could chose a specific league format I wanted (number of leagues, teams, and division settings). Is that not right? There isn't enough info about the other choices to understand what kind of game style it is (other than sandbox, I guess), so I went with the one I could understand from the initial screen.

What option am I supposed to choose? Classic?

[Ksyrup]

OK, am I missing something (again) - in an historical game, how do I have rookies placed on their correct teams instead of being randomly drafted?

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

OK, am I missing something (again) - in an historical game, how do I have rookies placed on their correct teams instead of being randomly drafted?

There is a specific game mode that does this called "TRU-Life Transactions" basically, it executes every transaction exactly as they happened in real life.

If that is too much, there is another option you can use at assn creation time "Player Affinity" with that option the AI will attempt to sign players based on their real life teams, though it is not 100% since other factor come into play with finances, roster sizes, roster composition etc.

We are just finishing up a huge 175 page manual, so I will post a link to a beta version of that if you'd like to have a look?

[Ksyrup]

Thanks. I don't want in-season transactions, jjust the rookies that come in each season to be placed on their correct teams. Whatever happens with trades, free agents, etc., from there is up to the game.

[Ksyrup]

Shaun, is there any way to look at defensive ratings when in the graphical roster mode? Right now, trying to assess all of my players' defensive abilities at their given position is a pain in the butt. If we had a graphical screen that listed all of the major league level players by starter and then listed all of the potential back-ups at each position, all showing their defensive abilities, that would be fantastic. Then I could easily tell who was the best defensive player at each position and which players would be likely late-inning defensive replacements.

[samifan24]

Any plans for a Mac version, Shaun?

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Any plans for a Mac version, Shaun?

I know Mac users hate this (I have 3 Macs ) But it runs great in VMWare or Parallels. I actually do most development on a Mac. But no chance of ever getting a native Mac version on this code base sorry.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Shaun, is there any way to look at defensive ratings when in the graphical roster mode? Right now, trying to assess all of my players' defensive abilities at their given position is a pain in the butt. If we had a graphical screen that listed all of the major league level players by starter and then listed all of the potential back-ups at each position, all showing their defensive abilities, that would be fantastic. Then I could easily tell who was the best defensive player at each position and which players would be likely late-inning defensive replacements.

A few others asked for that, and today is the last day I can add new code, so I snuck in some defense options to the graphical roster view. They will show up in tonight's final beta or the Release Candidate, which will be this week.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Ksyrup]

Awesome, thanks!

[Ksyrup]

Hey Shaun, I've been reading through the PS4 forums over the past week or so and see that some people are having issues with the computer never pulling their starting pitcher. With build 40, I just started an historical league and have managed 2 games, and the AI never pulled the pitcher. First game I won 4-2 and the starter threw over 160 pitches. Second game I won 10-8 but it was 4-3 in the bottom of the 7th, 1 on no out and the computer let the starter hit (110 pitches), and it was 5-5 top 9 and he stayed in to give up 5 runs and throw over 150 pitches before being pinch hit for in the bottom of the 9th. Definitely not the same AI pitcher usage I've seen in any other games I've managed.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hey Shaun, I've been reading through the PS4 forums over the past week or so and see that some people are having issues with the computer never pulling their starting pitcher. With build 40, I just started an historical league and have managed 2 games, and the AI never pulled the pitcher. First game I won 4-2 and the starter threw over 160 pitches. Second game I won 10-8 but it was 4-3 in the bottom of the 7th, 1 on no out and the computer let the starter hit (110 pitches), and it was 5-5 top 9 and he stayed in to give up 5 runs and throw over 150 pitches before being pinch hit for in the bottom of the 9th. Definitely not the same AI pitcher usage I've seen in any other games I've managed.

Yea we tracked this down. It was a bug introduced in beta 37. It is fixed for the next beta. We should probably take this conversation over to the forums.

[RainMaker]

Hi Shaun, I'm in the market for a baseball text sim game this year. OOTP is nice, but to be honest, it just gets too complex for my liking. I want to control a team, make all the moves, manage, and that's it. Their jump a few years ago to crazy universes turned me off and while they have tuned it a lot, it's still just too much for me to immerse myself into.

With that said, how does the game stack up to the depth of something like OOTP 6.5? That was by far my favorite game. Just enough depth without getting too crazy. I'm not a guy who sims a lot either, so the speed issue in that department doesn't bother me at all.

[Tim Tellean]

We have a free version that you are welcome to download and walk-through, and make the decision on the games depth for yourself.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

Yea we tracked this down. It was a bug introduced in beta 37. It is fixed for the next beta. We should probably take this conversation over to the forums.

That's cool. I saw the posts about it and thought you might have fixed it after beta 37, so I wanted you to know I was still seeing it in beta 40.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

I am really proud of this version. I don't think any game on the market can touch PureSim as far as statistical accuracy and AI.

I know you can get exited at times, Shaun. And I congratulate you for releasing Puresim 4 soon.

By the way everybody uses terms like "most realistic ever!", we do the same each year. Heck, probably even Mogul does it. Anyway, if somebody told me, PS is more realistic than OOTP, I'd just smile and ask for some examples. It's all a matter of context I guess.

Cheers,
Markus

[Mota]

Hi Markus, I think this year in terms of realism, Shaun is giving you a run for your money for real this time. The historical simulation is the best. The stats engine is better and the transactions modelling is fantastic.

I'm a fictional league player myself and I still think OOTP is the best with that with the multi-level minor league systems, but for the first time I really view both products on the same level in different categories.

I'll continue to support both!

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I know you can get exited at times, Shaun. And I congratulate you for releasing Puresim 4 soon.

Thanks!

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I know you can get exited at times, Shaun. And I congratulate you for releasing Puresim 4 soon.

By the way everybody uses terms like "most realistic ever!", we do the same each year. Heck, probably even Mogul does it. Anyway, if somebody told me, PS is more realistic than OOTP, I'd just smile and ask for some examples. It's all a matter of context I guess.

Cheers,
Markus

Feel free to take it for a spin - we've got a free lite version you can try out and see for yourself! Shaun really nailed this version and I think there's definitely going to be two top notch baseball sims on the market this season!

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

low road

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

high road

Hmm, I might be buying PureSim this go-round after all!

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Hmm, I might be buying PureSim this go-round after all!

I dont think Markus was trying to be rude or anything.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Hi Shaun, I'm in the market for a baseball text sim game this year. OOTP is nice, but to be honest, it just gets too complex for my liking. I want to control a team, make all the moves, manage, and that's it. Their jump a few years ago to crazy universes turned me off and while they have tuned it a lot, it's still just too much for me to immerse myself into.

With that said, how does the game stack up to the depth of something like OOTP 6.5? That was by far my favorite game. Just enough depth without getting too crazy. I'm not a guy who sims a lot either, so the speed issue in that department doesn't bother me at all.

Actually, 6.5 with a better computer AI would be a good comparison.

I was on the OOTP bus until last year was the first version I didnt purchase since OOTP 6. The AI issues just werent up to the standards of the rest of the game and I got sick of watching the computer waive their top prospects after trading their star player to get him.

Im kind of in the boat where Im stuck. I cant play a game that consistently makes dumb AI decisions but when I play PS I always crave some of the features OOTP has. I almost wish I had never been introduced to all that OOTP has.

[muns]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Hmm, I might be buying PureSim this go-round after all!

I totally agree

[Logan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I dont think Markus was trying to be rude or anything.

Uh, yeah...when he got "exited" about making that post.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Hmm, I might be buying PureSim this go-round after all!

Just two guys who have a lot of pride in their product. I don’t see how you can hold that against either one.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Logan

Uh, yeah...when he got "exited" about making that post.

Yeah I dunno maybe he was. How to know for sure the intent. From the different posts Ive seen Markus make over the years it seems very similar to how he usually posts. Lots of smileys

[cubboyroy1826]

I don't think Markus meant anything by his comments.

[MJ4H]

It isn't that he "meant anything" by his comments, it is that he felt the need to say anything at all about it beside congratulations.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

It isn't that he "meant anything" by his comments, it is that he felt the need to say anything at all about it beside congratulations.

I tend to agree. The intent of everything aside from 'congrats' seemed to be a combination of taking a bit of the spotlight from PS in its own thread and tweaking Shaun for suggesting that his game is that much better than any others on the market.

I know Markus has had communication "issues" in the past and maybe this is yet another one, but it could have been avoided by simply saying congrats and bumping his own thread to talk about OOTP's features and realism.

And as always, I'm sure we're making a much bigger deal of this than either developer will [publicly] say [admit].

[Logan]

"I know you can get exited (sic) at times" is what you say to a Lions fan when they win their first game and he starts shopping for Super Bowl flights.

[SteveMax58]

I say we settle this with a dance off at the Radiotron.

[Comey]

I say we turn the topic back to its intent, which is PureSim 4. Shaun made nothing of it...further conversation detracts from the purpose of this thread, and does Shaun further injustice.

[Ksyrup]

It keeps the thread up near the top, though.

I haven't had a chance to mess with build 41 yet, but assuming the starting pitcher neve gets pulled issue is resolved, I'm going to fire up an historical league tonight or tomorrow.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I say we settle this with a dance off at the Radiotron.

I'd counter with an 8-man single elimination text sim developer mma tournament. My money's on Adam Ryland.

But ya, I'm intrigued by PureSim 4. Everybody plays a game like this differently, I think baseball more sore than any other text sim sport, so it's so tough to figure out where to commit your time.

I always try to play with small, fictional leagues with no financials and no minors. So OOTPs weaknesses with AI roster management tend to really stand out, and I don't end up taking advantage of all the features that make OOTP so impressive. I've never tried PureSim before, but it's reputation around here has encouraged me to take the jump with this version.