Wie advances at USAPL

[k0ruptr]

michelle wie won her first round match play even against a quarter finalist from last year after advancing after the first 2 days of stroke play.

anyone else think the guy who lost to her wont hear the end of it from his friends .. lol

[moriarty]

Hey, she's Dark Cloud's girl ... hands off.

[Ragone]

I find it innane that a girl who hasn't done squat on her own tour has a chance to get into one of the ultimate men's events..

I'd have no issues if this was Annika Sorenstam.. or someone with a proven track record in the lpga.. Only thing Wie has proven is that she cracks under pressure.

Does she have a great future in golf? Yes
Does she need to be all over the map in terms of events at this point in her career? No

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Ragone

I find it innane that a girl who hasn't done squat on her own tour has a chance to get into one of the ultimate men's events..

I'd have no issues if this was Annika Sorenstam.. or someone with a proven track record in the lpga.. Only thing Wie has proven is that she cracks under pressure.

Does she have a great future in golf? Yes
Does she need to be all over the map in terms of events at this point in her career? No

The winner at the USAPL gets into the Master's no matter what. Most are college kids or 30 to 40 year old amateurs. No one has done anything on any tour. If she wins this event, she will have qualified for the Master's just like any other USAPL winner. She qualified to get into the tournament, just like any other USAPL entrant. USGA events are about the purest in golf. If she wins, she'll be a completely legitimate Master's entrant.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Ragone

I find it innane that a girl who hasn't done squat on her own tour has a chance to get into one of the ultimate men's events..

I'd have no issues if this was Annika Sorenstam.. or someone with a proven track record in the lpga.. Only thing Wie has proven is that she cracks under pressure.

Does she have a great future in golf? Yes
Does she need to be all over the map in terms of events at this point in her career? No

She qualified for it, just like anyone else in the field. This isn't a sponsor's exemption type deal like on the PGA tour. Not sure why you would have a beef with this.

edit: Digamma beat me to it.

[QuikSand]

The fury some people seem to possess over her play choices amazes me.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Ragone

I'd have no issues if this was Annika Sorenstam.. or someone with a proven track record in the lpga..

Hint. The "A" in the acronym USAPL stands for...?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Hint. The "A" in the acronym stands for...?

Ass! Do I shot for teh win??

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Ragone

I'd have no issues if this was Annika Sorenstam.. or someone with a proven track record in the lpga.. .

How 'bout the 'P' in the acronym - it stands for professional. Annika can't play in the AMATEUR tournament.

Originally Posted by Ragone

Only thing Wie has proven is that she cracks under pressure

Uhh.. she birdied 18 yesterday to win her match. Real choke. If you're referring to her final round in the US Open .... she's a 15 year old playing on a tough Sunday set up at a US Open. If you're referring to her last couple holes at John Deere ... remember that not even Annika has made a men's cut. Tough to label her a choker.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Ass! Do I shot for teh win??

It looks like you've done enough shots already.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Tough to label her a choker.

I thought of something here, but it's wrong to post. So I won't.

[rkmsuf]

Where is the ole Dark Cloud. This is his dream.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I thought of something here, but it's wrong to post. So I won't.

It's ok - just be sure to include a picture.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by digamma

The winner at the USAPL gets into the Master's no matter what.

This is not necesarily true - it is their tournament, and they make the rules - and then break them if they feel that's the right thing to due since there is nobody to oversee them and make them follow the rules. During the 70's they revoked a tournament's "automatic" winner qualifying status during the tournament to prevent a black golfer (I believe Charlie Sifford) from qualifying for the tournament.

The winner of this tournament is traditionally invited to the Master's, but really when it comes to that tournament, they invite who they want to be there, and do not invite who they don't want there.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by moriarty

It's ok - just be sure to include a picture.

[Wolfpack]

I think they've been publicly on record as stating that Wie can play at Augusta if she does win the the Publinx. I'm assuming they think her chances are next to none, though. Really, though, they see it as win-win. If Wie doesn't make it, they don't have to worry about anything. If Wie does win, the eyeballs she'll draw on TV will far outweigh any negativity anybody has towards having a woman play at Augusta.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Tough to label her a choker.

Not really, if you watch her play, when the pressure is on, she has (since the '03 womens publinx) missed all sorts of short putts when she was near the lead/cut, etc. and then fallen apart after that happened. When the pressure was on and she was near her goal, she has fallen apart down the stretch, in a two year string of tournaments.

It's understandable, given she is a 15 year old girl playing against professionals, but I can certainly see why people would give her that label. In her most impressive accomplishment since the 03 publinx (2nd at this year's LPGA) the tournament was over when play started on Sunday, and Wie made four shots up on Sorenstam to finish 3 behind - she was really playing without the pressure to win. The last two times we saw her, the US Open and the John Deere, when the pressure was on, she stumbled. The birdie at 18 yesterday is the first time in two years we have seen her deliver when the pressure was truly on.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I think they've been publicly on record as stating that Wie can play at Augusta if she does win the the Publinx. I'm assuming they think her chances are next to none, though. Really, though, they see it as win-win. If Wie doesn't make it, they don't have to worry about anything. If Wie does win, the eyeballs she'll draw on TV will far outweigh any negativity anybody has towards having a woman play at Augusta.

I agree - they can thumb their noses (or use other fingers) at Martha Burke since the golf fans who tune to the Master's don't really give a rats ass that Augusta has no female members. But, Wie is so popular, people they don't want to offend would be offended if she got a traditional invite revoked because she was a woman, it might impact them.

I was just saying, there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to Master's invites, since the rules have traditionally been so malleable.

I don't think that Augusta has made any statement's about what they will do - I think they are hoping the tremendous odds against her will win out and they won't have to deal with it.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Not really, if you watch her play, when the pressure is on, she has (since the '03 womens publinx) missed all sorts of short putts when she was near the lead/cut, etc. and then fallen apart after that happened. When the pressure was on and she was near her goal, she has fallen apart down the stretch, in a two year string of tournaments.

It's understandable, given she is a 15 year old girl playing against professionals, but I can certainly see why people would give her that label. In her most impressive accomplishment since the 03 publinx (2nd at this year's LPGA) the tournament was over when play started on Sunday, and Wie made four shots up on Sorenstam to finish 3 behind - she was really playing without the pressure to win. The last two times we saw her, the US Open and the John Deere, when the pressure was on, she stumbled. The birdie at 18 yesterday is the first time in two years we have seen her deliver when the pressure was truly on.

I did watch her play, and I think it's WAY to early to call her a choker. If you saw the John Deere classic you know the double bogey on 6 was a hole she struggled with on day 1 (where she also recorded a bogey). And I can see where she was a little rattled on the next hole where she recorded a bogey - that didn't really impact her making the cut anyways. As far as the women's US Open ... she didn't play well the final round period. That's not exactly the same as blowing up and choking the last few holes. After all, you'd have to call Annika a choker in that match as well ... as she could have won if she hadn't blown up the final round as well.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I don't think that Augusta has made any statement's about what they will do -

"Augusta National chairman Hootie Johnson has said the club would welcome Wie if she qualifies. That's joyful news for Wie, who has adored the Masters since it was the first golf event she ever watched on television. "

Link here among other sources.

[vtbub]

She's 5 up through six holes in her morning match against Ball State's MVP.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Not really, if you watch her play, when the pressure is on, she has (since the '03 womens publinx) missed all sorts of short putts when she was near the lead/cut, etc. and then fallen apart after that happened. When the pressure was on and she was near her goal, she has fallen apart down the stretch, in a two year string of tournaments.

It's understandable, given she is a 15 year old girl playing against professionals, but I can certainly see why people would give her that label. In her most impressive accomplishment since the 03 publinx (2nd at this year's LPGA) the tournament was over when play started on Sunday, and Wie made four shots up on Sorenstam to finish 3 behind - she was really playing without the pressure to win. The last two times we saw her, the US Open and the John Deere, when the pressure was on, she stumbled. The birdie at 18 yesterday is the first time in two years we have seen her deliver when the pressure was truly on.

It sounds what you're trying to say then is that she's 15, not that she's a choker. I'll hazard to guess that 95 percent (+/- 5 percent) of the people who label her a choker would pee all over their own leg if they were standing over a putt to win a match at a golf tournament where the winner was invited to The Masters. Then they would proceed to blow the putt 20 feet past the hole.

I agree with Quik -- why people take an instant dislike to Wie simply amazes me. I've seen and heard people berate her in a way that they would never attack a college basketball player. Unless the college basketball player was also a female phenom.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by vtbub

She's 5 up through six holes in her morning match against Ball State's MVP.

Don't worry -- she'll choke.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Don't worry -- she'll choke.

Ball State

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Ball State

She'll choke on Balls?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

It sounds what you're trying to say then is that she's 15, not that she's a choker. I'll hazard to guess that 95 percent (+/- 5 percent) of the people who label her a choker would pee all over their own leg if they were standing over a putt to win a match at a golf tournament where the winner was invited to The Masters. Then they would proceed to blow the putt 20 feet past the hole.

I agree with Quik -- why people take an instant dislike to Wie simply amazes me. I've seen and heard people berate her in a way that they would never attack a college basketball player. Unless the college basketball player was also a female phenom.

I'm saying that in her last few high profile events, when the pressure was on, she failed. I call it 15, but purely evaluating her golf performance this year, without considering her age, it would be fair to call her a choker. I don't - I like her and root for her to do well (as I do any amateur against the pros) but she really did crumble at the first signs of adversity at the US Open and John Deere.

[vtbub]

Her lack of maturity is her biggest enemy. Being 15, she thinks that she should sink everything. With her natural maturity growing as she gets older, the choke label should come off.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by moriarty

She'll choke on Balls?

possibly at some point

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Her lack of maturity is her biggest enemy. Being 15, she thinks that she should sink everything. With her natural maturity growing as she gets older, the choke label should come off.

And her memory is a problem too. When she misses putt she should not miss, it always carries over to the next tee, and sometimes several holes. That is something that should come with age and seasoning, but its hard to project someone's emotional development, especially a woman (just wanted to see if any females were reading this thread).

[moriarty]

I think you could make a case she's not a yet a proven winner or a closer, but I still think choker is the wrong label here. She hasn't shown a propensity to rise to the occasion and close the door ala Tiger. I think this is more visible in some of her matches against competition more her age like the women's amateur competitions.

The US Open was not a case of choking in my book - it was just having a bad round on Sunday. She was never really in it (just like Annika, Retief Goosen, etc...) and again, she collaped in the Deere on a hole where she just didn't play well either day.

I've said before and I'll say again, I think the best thing for her would be to play some jr competitions and rack up some wins to get the feeling of closing the door on the competition. That's the biggest difference between her as a prodigy and the young Tiger IMO.

[Ryan S]

Everybody needs to calm down a bit because Michelle Wie has a long way to go before qualifying for the Masters.

USGA amateur events are among the toughest events to win in Golf because there are so many stages to them. Two rounds of strokeplay followed by six games of matchplay make these events some of the toughest in golf. She is also probably far from the best player in the field this week which will make it even more difficult for her.

If she wins, she absolutely deserves the spot in the Masters (and it would be the first mens event she has ever qualified for)

[vtbub]

I think her skill level is better than her 15 year old contemporaies. She so long off the tee that with even mediocre accuracy she would win hands down. The LPGA should drop the age limit and let them all play,because her skill level is probably top 30 on tour now.

I think her game has enough potential that she could contend at Augusta and St. Andrews in four or five years. Can you imagine her length with Annika's game?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Samdari

This is not necesarily true - it is their tournament, and they make the rules - and then break them if they feel that's the right thing to due since there is nobody to oversee them and make them follow the rules. During the 70's they revoked a tournament's "automatic" winner qualifying status during the tournament to prevent a black golfer (I believe Charlie Sifford) from qualifying for the tournament.

The winner of this tournament is traditionally invited to the Master's, but really when it comes to that tournament, they invite who they want to be there, and do not invite who they don't want there.

Fair enough. I should have written that as the Master's qualifying standards are set as of the date hereof, the winner of the USAPL would receive an invite to the Master's. Of course, if the USAPL or US Am winner were to turn professional between now and then they wouldn't be eligible to play either.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Everybody needs to calm down a bit because Michelle Wie has a long way to go before qualifying for the Masters.

USGA amateur events are among the toughest events to win in Golf because there are so many stages to them. Two rounds of strokeplay followed by six games of matchplay make these events some of the toughest in golf. She is also probably far from the best player in the field this week which will make it even more difficult for her.

If she wins, she absolutely deserves the spot in the Masters (and it would be the first mens event she has ever qualified for)

And since we're being precise, I think the USAPL would count as a men's event for which she's qualified. The Master's would be the first professional men's event.

[vtbub]

The number 55 seed knocks out the 23rd seed from Ball State 6 and 5.

Her 1-up victory yesterday was over the 10 seed.

She, more than likely, won't win it all, but a nice run indeed.


EDIT-bad comma placement

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I'm saying that in her last few high profile events, when the pressure was on, she failed. I call it 15, but purely evaluating her golf performance this year, without considering her age, it would be fair to call her a choker. I don't - I like her and root for her to do well (as I do any amateur against the pros) but she really did crumble at the first signs of adversity at the US Open and John Deere.

I think we agree to a point, but I disagree saying it's "fair" to call her a choker.

Would the same people who are calling her a choker go online and call their 18-year-old neighbor who missed a layup at the buzzer to send his team to the state playoffs a choker? Some certainly would -- and these are the types who yell at 8-year-olds during soccer games too. In other words, ass hats.

But I think a lot of people are critical of her for other reasons: probably jealousy on a subconscious level. I think a lot of people who are criticizing her are treating her like she's hardened pro when in fact she's simply an amazing 15-year-old kid. If someone can't enjoy watching a player that young who is so good at what they do, then I really question whether that person is being fair.

[rkmsuf]

6 and 5?

Wie blows (away) the Ball State guy.

[dacman]

I wonder if Dave Letterman will have a spot on his show for this guy too.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

But I think a lot of people are critical of her for other reasons: probably jealousy on a subconscious level. I think a lot of people who are criticizing her are treating her like she's hardened pro when in fact she's simply an amazing 15-year-old kid. If someone can't enjoy watching a player that young who is so good at what they do, then I really question whether that person is being fair.

I think it is more than jealousy. Some men feel that if a woman shows success in what is considered a "man's" field, that it somehow makes them less of a man. It is like with every success of Wie (or Danika, or any woman competeing against mostly men), their penis shrinks a little. I'm glad my manhood isn't tied to whether a woman can compete on the men's gold tour, and I can just enjoy watching someone playing the best they can at the highest level.

[dacman]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

I think it is more than jealousy. Some men feel that if a woman shows success in what is considered a "man's" field, that it somehow makes them less of a man. It is like with every success of Wie (or Danika, or any woman competeing against mostly men), their penis shrinks a little. I'm glad my manhood isn't tied to whether a woman can compete on the men's gold tour, and I can just enjoy watching someone playing the best they can at the highest level.

Actually, it's more the "they haven't earned it yet" syndrome. If Sorenstam were doing something similar, I don't think she'd be criticized near as much because she's "paid her dues."

[rkmsuf]

To all the detractors there is a simple solution. If you don't think she belongs there, beat her.

If you can't, STFU.

[hhiipp]

I think she brings some of this on herself by basically saying 'fu' to the LPGA. She keeps saying she can compete with the big boys and when she doesn't cowboy up people get on her case about it.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by dacman

Actually, it's more the "they haven't earned it yet" syndrome. If Sorenstam were doing this, I don't think she'd be criticized near as much because she's "paid her dues."

No, they were crying the same way about Sorenstam last year. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Let them play in their own league" and "Men can't play on the LPGA, so women shouldn't play on the men's side." And every time I here it, all I hear is "A 15 year old is cutting off my pee-pee."

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by hhiipp

I think she brings some of this on herself by basically saying 'fu' to the LPGA. She keeps saying she can compete with the big boys and when she doesn't cowboy up people get on her case about it.

Why shouldn't she say "FU" to the LPGA? She doesn't want to play there. There are plenty of men who have tried to make the PGA and have done much worse. Talk to me when she's 22 about her "cowboying up" if she still hasn't gotten her tour card.

[rkmsuf]

what is the issue here? she has no say anyway so how can she bring stuff on herself. they tell her where to play and she shows up.

[hhiipp]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

what is the issue here? she has no say anyway so how can she bring stuff on herself. they tell her where to play and she shows up.

When she goes to press conferences and says that she doesn't care about the LPGA, that is bringing stuff on yourself.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by hhiipp

When she goes to press conferences and says that she doesn't care about the LPGA, that is bringing stuff on yourself.

Perhaps she likes men, likes to be manhandled.

[stkelly52]

Originally Posted by dacman

Actually, it's more the "they haven't earned it yet" syndrome. If Sorenstam were doing something similar, I don't think she'd be criticized near as much because she's "paid her dues."

And who in this tournament has "earned it" more than her? THEY ARE ALL AMATURES! No one in this tourney has shown anything yet. As for her playing in other tournaments on corporate exemptions, I don't hear anyone complaining when that exemption goes to Ray Ramano. Certainly they don't think that Ray has earned it more than her. People try to come up with excuses to not like her playing, but in reality, they are just sexists.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by hhiipp

When she goes to press conferences and says that she doesn't care about the LPGA, that is bringing stuff on yourself.

Has she ever really said she doesn't care about the LPGA? I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, I've just never heard her say it.

I have heard her say her goal is to play on the men's tour. That's a lot different than saying FU to the LPGA. That's saying, I want to compete against the best, period. We applaud other athletes for this mentality.

[dacman]

Originally Posted by stkelly52

And who in this tournament has "earned it" more than her? THEY ARE ALL AMATURES!

I was speaking in general terms (i.e woman playing men's tournaments)

People try to come up with excuses to not like her playing, but in reality, they are just sexists.

Even the current LPGA players? Is there an element of sexism? Absolutely, but my point was that it's more than that.