Reds cut Graves

[korme]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=cin

CINCINNATI -- The Reds' clubhouse sat silent and, for the most part, empty Monday afternoon. The familiar sounds of rock music blaring from Danny Graves' iPod were gone. Instead, Graves quietly held court in front of his corner locker, as he and his now-former teammates digested the move that had just been made.

Unlike the ousting of second baseman D'Angelo Jimenez, who had an altogether uncomfortable relationship with many of the Reds, the team's decision to designate Graves for assignment was met by some with anger, bitterness and hurt feelings.

Few seemed to be more irked than clubhouse leader Sean Casey, who went on at length about his frustration with the front office's decision.

"Guys love that guy. Guys love Danny Graves. I don't know how that doesn't affect things negatively," Casey said. "Right now, this is one of the lowest points I've been part of with the Reds and probably the lowest point of our season."

Many players were shocked the team would cast Graves aside so early in the season, given his dedication to the club the past eight years.

"He's a professional," Paul Wilson said. "He's a Cincinnati Red. He's done so much for the city, this organization, this team and me. Everybody in this locker room knows it. This hurts a great deal."

Though he had been hurt badly in recent outings, compiling an ERA of 11.00 this month, Graves was 10-for-12 in save opportunities. That's a stat that didn't go unnoticed by a starting pitcher like Wilson.

"There's nothing that Danny has done or said that would give them enough reason to warrant this," Wilson said. "If you want to talk about performance, the guy's 10 out of 12 for saves. Yeah, he's given up runs the last few times out. He'll be the first to tell you that. But give him the ball in a save opportunity, and he's done that. I thought that was the bottom line."

The bottom line became complicated in this instance.

Graves was popular with teammates but unpopular with some fans.

After helping to blow a six-run, ninth-inning lead against the Cardinals on May 2, Graves complained about fans booing the team. That led to a chorus of boos each time he took the mound in succeeding appearances at Great American Ball Park.

On Sunday, the ugliness resulted in Graves making an obscene gesture toward a fan from the Reds' dugout.

Sean Casey / 1B
		Born: 07/02/74 Height: 6'4" Weight: 225 lbs Bats: L / Throws: R More info: Player page Stats | Splits Gallery Team Site | Shop

Casey said that poor relationship with the fans shouldn't have led to Graves being let go.

"He said what we said about being booed, but 'Gravy' cares about this city," Casey said. "He lives here, he has a house in West Chester. He loves it here. And believe me, he didn't like being booed just as much as I'm sure the fans didn't like booing him."

And for all his trouble with fans, Graves was one of the Reds' most active community members. He regularly donated tickets to underprivileged children through his "Gravy's Train" program; he was the team's spokesman for breast cancer awareness through the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation; and he gave money to a variety of charities, including the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

"He was great," said Lorrie Platt, the team's community relations manager. "He was very approachable. He was one of the first go-to guys for community outreach."

It all added up to one heart-wrenching goodbye for several Reds players.

But outside of the relationships built with Graves, some players wondered if the move was smart, both business-wise and baseball-wise. The Reds will most likely end up eating what remains of Graves' $6.25 million contract this season.

Ken Griffey Jr. said the decision could come back to haunt the team on the field.

Ken Griffey / CF
		Born: 11/21/69 Height: 6'3" Weight: 205 lbs Bats: L / Throws: L More info: Player page Stats | Splits Gallery Team Site | Shop

"Everybody in here knows [Graves] is going to turn it around," Griffey said. "They wanted to make a change, and they made it. But the next team that picks him up ... when he comes here, it's going to be tough trying to face a guy with a little more determination."

Casey said he wouldn't be surprised to find out Graves is battling physical problems that could have been treated, if checked out.

"He was throwing 94 [mph] a few years ago," Casey said. "You don't throw eight miles per hour off and there's something not wrong. If he gets it taken care of, he's the Danny Graves of old. But him being the person he is and the warrior he is, he never said a thing about it."

Casey was especially displeased to see Graves taking a heap of blame for the team's struggles.

"For us to be 15-28 has nothing to do with Danny Graves," Casey said. "That's the frustrating part for me. I know I'm a little emotional right now, but I think the Cincinnati Reds owe a little more to Danny Graves. They owe him more than to just release him like this."

Anthony Castrovince is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


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Had to be tough, seeing as Graves has been a staple with the Reds for 9 years, and still he is only 31. He will find a new home. But it was the right move, we were supposed to be better than this, and we are making decisions letting players know underachieving isn't acceptable here anymore.


I don't know if I agree with letting go of Jiminez though. He's still young.

[MrBug708]

He'll get on another team somewhere

[Young Drachma]

Wow. What is it with that organization and in their inability to do seemingly anything right? I mean, even with a nice looking ballpark...they're still not even contenders this year. But what does this do but irk players? I guess the fans are the ones paying. But they get the finger all the time, it's not that big a deal.

I wonder who'll pick him up...

[MrBug708]

Giants need a closer

[Fonzie]

Do the Reds really have so much pitching that they can let Graves go? And eat his contract?

I'm not sure I understand this move.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Braves need arms in the pen, closer or otherwise.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Braves need arms in the pen, closer or otherwise.

Exactly what I was thinking....

[Vince]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Giants need a closer

Actually, Tyler Walker has looked great. Our bullpen is basically crap though, and I wouldn't be surprised if we brought him in to be a set-up guy, or even to replace Walker as the closer.

[Pacersfan46]

Makes no damn sense. It's not even June yet.

Come on Red Sox, go get him.

[ISiddiqui]

Couldn't the Reds have, I dunno... traded him?! Plenty of teams seem to be looking for bullpen help.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by FBPro

Exactly what I was thinking....

Same here. I do see the Yankees making a huge play for his services.

[SackAttack]

That's what DFA'ed means. They have 10 days to trade him, or they can release him.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

That's what DFA'ed means. They have 10 days to trade him, or they can release him.

Yeah, but why DFA him at all? Just put him on the trading block, then you don't have to release him after 10 days and maybe try again closer to the trade deadline... yeah, his ERA is through the roof, but his 10 for 12 in saves might appeal to some.

[primelord]

I don't understand why everyone thinks there will be such a big push for anyone to get this guy. He is always among the league leaders in blown saves, he has given up 15 earned runs and walked 12 batters in only 18 innings this season. Not exactly numbers I would want for any reliever let alone my closer.

He just doesn't have it anymore. Sure he had 41 saves last uear, but he also had 9 blown saves and an ERA of almost 4. You should be getting a lot more than that for 6 mil.

[PilotMan]

It all started the night that he blew the 7 run lead against the Cardinals. The fans were killing him on the radio, he would come into the game and get booed. They were right, he was getting rocked in almost every appearance. In fact, the way that he was pitching reminded me of Mitch Williams when he would come into the game, except without the dominating stuff. The next day after the Cards game he says "I went out and did my best." That got him blasted. How is your best giving up 2 HR's and 7 ER's? The fans wanted what they paid for not, just a cavalier "Ho Hum, I guess I get em next time" attitude. He really took no responsibility for his performance.

You could see the writing on the wall with this one. To top it off, you can't give the home fans the bird and expect to get away with it, no matter how bad the situation gets. I support the team on this one. There is someone else in AAA who could do the job Graves was doing this season.

[Neuqua]

I am sure the Cubs are going to keep a close eye on Graves. We need all the help we can get out of the pen.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The next day after the Cards game he says "I went out and did my best." That got him blasted. How is your best giving up 2 HR's and 7 ER's? The fans wanted what they paid for not, just a cavalier "Ho Hum, I guess I get em next time" attitude. He really took no responsibility for his performance.

I haven't seen his actual quote so my response is based purely on yours of "did my best". Why not? Perhaps his best THAT specific day DID involved 2 HR's and 7 ER's. He wouldn't be the first pitcher to have done that and far better (and more expensive) pitchers than Graves done it. I always thought Graves was fairly borderline anyhow since he had neither great stuff, superior control or that one "trick pitch" but, hey, for awhile his "best" was pretty good and nobody complained.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

To top it off, you can't give the home fans the bird and expect to get away with it, no matter how bad the situation gets. I support the team on this one.

I agree with this, though.

[Ksyrup]

Plus, isn't he a former Hurricane? Who the hell would want one of THEM?!

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by primelord

He just doesn't have it anymore. Sure he had 41 saves last uear, but he also had 9 blown saves and an ERA of almost 4. You should be getting a lot more than that for 6 mil.

Yup, but teams will only have to pay him a minimum to give him a shot.

[Klinglerware]

The Reds should have never tried to convert him into a starter, his velocity just wasn't the same afterwards.

As for the bird incident being the reason for shipping off Graves--that's pretty weak. I can't think of anybody else being released for that in recent history. If the release is due to poor performance, the Reds should just say so...

[Crapshoot]

Graves has been god-awful- credit the Reds for recognizing sunk cost, and cutting him - he wasnt one of the 5-6 relievers on the team, and shouldnt be there.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

The Reds should have never tried to convert him into a starter, his velocity just wasn't the same afterwards.

As for the bird incident being the reason for shipping off Graves--that's pretty weak. I can't think of anybody else being released for that in recent history. If the release is due to poor performance, the Reds should just say so...

They said it was purely a baseball decision.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Yup, but teams will only have to pay him a minimum to give him a shot.

...and given the rag-tag quality - and I use the term loosely - of some major league bullpens, I bet he gets plenty of calls.

[Ksyrup]

How can the other 29 teams not want this guy? Pay a pro-rated portion of the league minimum for a guy who's been good in the past, and even this year, has saved 10 of 12 games? If he comes back to even half of his former self and is a quality 7th inning guy, paying him $250K for the rest of the season is a steal.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Balldog

They said it was purely a baseball decision.

Okay, fair enough. Re-reading the various stories more carefully, I see that much of the Graves-fan interaction stuff is media/player generated...

Still, a bit of a surprise decision--Graves could still be a serviceable reliever (though not necessarily as a closer)...

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

How can the other 29 teams not want this guy? Pay a pro-rated portion of the league minimum for a guy who's been good in the past, and even this year, has saved 10 of 12 games? If he comes back to even half of his former self and is a quality 7th inning guy, paying him $250K for the rest of the season is a steal.

7.36 ERA - no velocity. 1.5 walks to every strikeout - that's why. He's been god awful. He'll get a shot with some team certainly, but all he proves, once again, are that saves are a useless statistic whose importance is ridiculously overstated.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

7.36 ERA - no velocity. 1.5 walks to every strikeout - that's why. He's been god awful. He'll get a shot with some team certainly, but all he proves, once again, are that saves are a useless statistic whose importance is ridiculously overstated.

Are you talking about Graves or Kolb?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

7.36 ERA - no velocity. 1.5 walks to every strikeout - that's why. He's been god awful. He'll get a shot with some team certainly, but all he proves, once again, are that saves are a useless statistic whose importance is ridiculously overstated.

Doesn't matter - he's clearly worth the minimal risk. Even as a mop-up reliever to begin, $250K is nothing. If he regains confidence and/or velocity and can be a set-up guy, it's a no-brainer. Unless you've got a full 40-man roster where you can't let one guy go to add him, he's a good risk.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Are you talking about Graves or Kolb?

I was also thinking of the similarities. Why Braves fans would want Graves in addition to Kolb is beyond me. As a Nats fan, I hope the Braves pick him up and use him often.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Doesn't matter - he's clearly worth the minimal risk. Even as a mop-up reliever to begin, $250K is nothing. If he regains confidence and/or velocity and can be a set-up guy, it's a no-brainer. Unless you've got a full 40-man roster where you can't let one guy go to add him, he's a good risk.

he's worth a shot for another team, certainly, but it makes sense for the Reds to move on, especially if they think they have better pitchers in the minors (admittedly, an amusing prospect). He may be a worthwhile risk for the Cubs or for San Francisco - but he hasn't exactly been good in a while.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I was also thinking of the similarities. Why Braves fans would want Graves in addition to Kolb is beyond me. As a Nats fan, I hope the Braves pick him up and use him often.

Well, my guess is because if anyone has a shot to fix him, it is Leo. I think Leo already has his hands full, though, and it is not likely the Braves are going to be interested.

[lungs]

Anybody who would pick him up via trade or waivers would be crazy. Unless the Reds paid most, if not all of his salary.

I still think the best way to build a bullpen is by picking parts off the scrap heap for cheap and see who sticks. Once Graves gets thrown to the scrap heap where he can be had for cheap he could be a decent buy.

[st.cronin]

Has there ever been a story where a player had a kind thing to say about somebody getting released?

"Yeah, Smith really sucked and had no place on the team. We're glad he got cut, and looking forward to welcoming the untested minor leaguer who's on his way from Hicksville middle America."

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by lungs

Anybody who would pick him up via trade or waivers would be crazy. Unless the Reds paid most, if not all of his salary.

I still think the best way to build a bullpen is by picking parts off the scrap heap for cheap and see who sticks. Once Graves gets thrown to the scrap heap where he can be had for cheap he could be a decent buy.

The Reds will pick up almost all of his salary. A team would only pay him $316,000.

[Bearcat729]

Keep in mind that his ERA went from just below 3.00 last year pre all star break to over 7 after the all star break. He has been really bad for a while now.

Maybe playing for a new team would help him, but the Reds needed to get rid of him.

[JasonC23]

As a White Sox fan, I wholeheartedly endorse the Cubs picking this guy up.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Well, my guess is because if anyone has a shot to fix him, it is Leo. I think Leo already has his hands full, though, and it is not likely the Braves are going to be interested.

But why bother with Graves? The whole emphasis on the magic of Leo (which I don't doubt) and Rick Peterson (which I am less sold on) is that they can take nobodies or retreads and help fix them. To do that, though, they need the raw materials. Find the Chris Hammonds, Chad Bradfords, and Darren Holmes of the world before taking a chance on a high profile player who isn't worth the effort. These are Graves's stats and ratios for the last few years:

2002 98.2 IP 58/25 K/BB 7 HR
2003 169 IP 60/41 K/BB 30 HR (the starter experiement)
2004 68.1 IP 40/13 K/BB 12 HR
2005 18.1 IP 8/12 K/BB 4 HR

The only encouraging thing is the 2004 K/BB ratio improving, but that came at the cost of an extreme spike as a reliever in HR/9. His K/9 has never been much and his velocity loss implies it is going to continue to decline. For the minimum salary, he may be worth some time in AAA (if he would do it and no other team would interfere), but putting him on your major league roster is just asking for it.

[hhiipp]

I'm going to the Reds game Friday and was hoping I could boo Graves with the rest of Cincinnati

[WSUCougar]

And as a Cardinals fan, I wholeheartedly endorse the Cubs picking this guy up, too.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by hhiipp

I'm going to the Reds game Friday and was hoping I could boo Graves with the rest of Cincinnati

Wow. If I were spending $40 or whatever to go to the game, I would hope that it wouldn't be just to boo a player...

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

And as a Cardinals fan, I wholeheartedly endorse the Cubs picking this guy up, too.

Yeah, me too.


Todd

[Poli]

Word.

[hhiipp]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Wow. If I were spending $40 or whatever to go to the game, I would hope that it wouldn't be just to boo a player...

Free tickets.

And I'm a Cubs fan so I have no use for any of the Reds.

[korme]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Has there ever been a story where a player had a kind thing to say about somebody getting released?

"Yeah, Smith really sucked and had no place on the team. We're glad he got cut, and looking forward to welcoming the untested minor leaguer who's on his way from Hicksville middle America."

Well, probably not. But there were, count 'em, 0 player responses to the release of clubhouse problem D'Angelo Jiminez. Though I liked Jimmy.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Well, probably not. But there were, count 'em, 0 player responses to the release of clubhouse problem D'Angelo Jiminez. Though I liked Jimmy.

Which could mean that the media didn't like Jimmy, but they do like Graves.

[korme]

Well obviously this was a special case. Player's loved Danny. Casey was tearing up, Griffey didn't have his familiar smile on him in the lockerroom, players were bashing the organization.. that is stuff you usually don't see.

[Bearcat729]

You saw it when they traded Aaron Boone. Everyone cried, but the players will get over it.

[korme]

06/02/2005 6:05 PM ET Danny Graves era ends in Cincinnati Pitcher becomes unrestricted free agent By Anthony Castrovince / MLB.com

Danny Graves cleared waivers and was released from the Reds on Thursday. (Andy Lyons/Getty) Reds Headlines • Danny Graves era ends in Cincinnati • Harang hopes to continue groove • Reds notes: Miley leans on Stone • Red menace: Oswalt makes it 14-0 vs. Cincy • Reds notes: Success crucial to roster • More Reds Headlines MLB Headlines • Votebook: Hot stuff at the hot corner • Rusch and Lee help Cubs stay torrid • D-Backs obtain Herges from Giants • Mission possible: Royals sweep Yankees • Ortiz blasts one to lift Red Sox over O's • More MLB Headlines ADVERTISEMENT

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CINCINNATI -- The Danny Graves era in Cincinnati has officially come to an unceremonious end. Graves cleared waivers and was released from the team Thursday afternoon, making him an unrestricted free agent. He can sign with any team.

Any team that signs Graves can do so for the pro-rated Major League minimum for the remainder of '05. The Reds would then pay the remainder of his $6.25 million contract.

Graves, 31, was designated for assignment on May 23 after going 1-1 with a 7.76 ERA and 10 saves in 20 relief appearances this season. The team dropped him after he posted an ERA of 11.00 in 10 appearances in May, including a 30.38 ERA in his last three games.

Graves, who is 41-43 with a 3.98 ERA and 182 saves in his career, was in his ninth season with the Reds.

Anthony Castrovince is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.





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Where's he going? I say Atlanta.

[korme]

well that didn't format like i expected

[Ksyrup]

I thinnk I read somewhere that he's almost certain to sign with the Marlins.