What would you do if you were fired like this?

[Mantle2600]

So my Brother was fired from Petsmart last tuesday supposedly for slapping some girl on the ass, so she says. Today he finds out it was possibly some girl who is trying to become a manager and he was standing in her way, and he's barely ever even talked to this girl.

They fired him without telling him who it is or anything, just that the accusation was brought up is apparently enough for them to fire him. Could he possibly take them to court? Or can any girl just cry sexual harrassment and BAM your job's over?

[path12]

Get another job. Shit happens, and it's never going to be more than one person's word over another.

[vex]

I'd sue. But what do I know..

[B & B]

[johnnyshaka]

If I were him I'd ask to see the written policy on sexual harrassment claims, if one indeed exists, because that sounds pretty fishy to me. In other words, I would say he probably does have some recourse but it's up to him call Petsmart's bluff.

I just recently went through the process where I work as a co-worker was apparently "charged" with a sexual harrassment claim by another co-worker. I was called as a "witness" (for lack of a better term) for the accused and was questioned on a range of things from his and her character and how they interacted in the office to the nature of my friendship with both co-workers. Very shitty process and the accused co-worker resigned of his own accord but I don't see how he had any other choice meanwhile the "victim" has gone on as if nothing has changed. The other crappy thing is that nobody else knows about why the accused left as we're sworn to secrecy or could face disciplinary action and that has added another level of tension to a department that used to be a great place to work. It's really a shame.

[aran]

Tell them to prove it.

If they can't, take them to court. This kinda thing may follow you around to other jobs if your other employer calls up your past employers during the interview process, and you don't want that.

What this girl is doing IS illegal.

[st.cronin]

I have been falsely accused of sexual harassment at 3 different jobs. Every time I've fought to have my name cleared. Thus far my record is perfect.

[Logan]

Am I wrong to ask the obvious question?

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Logan

Am I wrong to ask the obvious question?

pics?

[Mantle2600]

Originally Posted by Logan

Am I wrong to ask the obvious question?

What pix plz?

If so, sorry but there are none as it did'nt actually happen.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have been falsely accused of sexual harassment at 3 different jobs. Every time I've fought to have my name cleared. Thus far my record is perfect.

3 TIMES? Are you sure you aren't doing something...?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have been falsely accused of sexual harassment at 3 different jobs. Every time I've fought to have my name cleared. Thus far my record is perfect.

I hate it when you turkey slap a girl at work and she takes it the wrong way.

[oliegirl]

In any place I've ever worked, there has been a written sexual harassment policy, and part of that policy is that if an accusation is made, both sides are allowed to tell their side of the story before any action is taken.

It definitely is on the accused to prove his innocence more than it is on the victim to prove anything happened, which sucks. I'd definitely recommend that your brother contact PetSmart HR and at the least, find out what they would say if someone called them for a reference. As far as I know it is illegal for someone to give more than position, salary and employment dates, at least it is in GA...so the fact that nothing was done legally may be in his favor b/c there is nothing out there referring to the incident, so if PetSmart is going to keep their mouth shut, then the chances of anyone finding out are slim.

[molson]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

In any place I've ever worked, there has been a written sexual harassment policy, and part of that policy is that if an accusation is made, both sides are allowed to tell their side of the story before any action is taken.

A company as big as Petsmart is sure to have something like this, and if they didn't follow the policy, I think a lawyer's ears would perk up.

If he goes that road, I hope he sues the bitch individually as well, if only to get her served, and to cause her the expense of hiring a lawyer.

And if he knows where she lives he should poop on her front steps.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by dangarion

3 TIMES? Are you sure you aren't doing something...?

Well, I'm sure I'm doing SOMETHING wrong. But in each case the accuser was somebody I had never once been alone with, and in two of the situations the accuser was fired when it was shown that she had been lying.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, I'm sure I'm doing SOMETHING wrong.

Dude, if being irresistably attractive to the opposite sex so that they manifest their unrequited desire for you in fabricated sexual harrassment charges is wrong, then I don't think you want to be right.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Dude, if being irresistably attractive to the opposite sex so that they manifest their unrequited desire for you in fabricated sexual harrassment charges is wrong, then I don't think you want to be right.

An excellent point.

[Greyroofoo]

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Dude, if being irresistably attractive to the opposite sex so that they manifest their unrequited desire for you in fabricated sexual harrassment charges is wrong, then I don't think you want to be right.

That is awesome.

[BrianD]

Is this an at-will employment state? If so, there isn't much to sue over. In cases of sexual harassment, a company's liability is probably greater if they don't take action over a true case than if they do take action over a false case. And in the end...this is Petsmart. There is probably a reasonable turnover rate there anyway so it is just easier to fire and find a replacement. Nobody is going to care that much about checking a reference there other than to ask if your brother might be a danger to anyone at the new place of employment.

[kingnebwsu]

I work at a retail place and say that something like this would never happen in my market. This is something that the hire-ups preach about a lot. I've walked into a lot of bad situations with complaints of stuff like this & other things. There would have to have been a confession or a witness or something before they would have fired someone. I'd say he definitely needs to press the issue. Getting fired (or almost getting fired) for something you didn't do is just wrong and should be fought if he wants to do that.

Good luck.

[SCgoatman]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Is this an at-will employment state? If so, there isn't much to sue over. In cases of sexual harassment, a company's liability is probably greater if they don't take action over a true case than if they do take action over a false case. And in the end...this is Petsmart. There is probably a reasonable turnover rate there anyway so it is just easier to fire and find a replacement. Nobody is going to care that much about checking a reference there other than to ask if your brother might be a danger to anyone at the new place of employment.

If your lawyer is worth two shts, at will employment means absolutely nothing. That said, it's a job at Petsmart; it's not like it's a loss of a major life-defining potential career, and probably not worth suing over, given the time and general frustrations that would take.

At a minimum though, i would make sure the official employment record doesn't show "unwillfully terminated" or "terminated due to sexual harassment" or such though. Generally all a former employer will release is when employed and cause for end of employment. You want this to just say voluntarily resigned for future job references. I'd push the HR on their policy (it's sure to allow him some potential for self defense). Likely they'll just say "if you voluntarily quit, we'll drop it." that's probably the best possible outcome, whether or not he went all St. Cronin on her arse.

[CU Tiger]

Two points. If I was going to sue, I would bring suit for defamation of character and loss of income AGAINST the accuser. Dont screw with petsmart and their corp. money. Maybe name them as an additional party on the off shoot chance of a quick settlement, payday.

Another interesting angle, what if he sued for sexual harassment/sexual discrimination. Right to work/Willful employment or not, a good lawyrer could make a case that had he not been a male he would have been given more benefit of the doubt. Unless theey have case files of actually terminatiing females for SH he may have a shot there.

Now the thing is he isnt going to get muchm, just lost actual wages, which unless he is/was a store manager probably isnt much. But on the other hand, if a good friend wanted to hire him for, say a 6 figure a year deal, and thn he lost the opportunity to get said 6figure salary because of incoorect info disclosed by petsmart, well then you have a whole other case on your hands.

Now, Where to find an employer who would write a job descrip and pay grade for a new position...

[Mustang]

Well, if the end result is that he can't do anything legal, I'd find several friends over the period of 3-4 weeks go in and randomly complain about the rudeness of said female employee, about how she was unwilling to help, swore at them and told them to find some other place to shop. If you have friends that are a different race then her even better because they can randomly throw out the race card.

Then if she is fired, call her up and ask her why you would slap her on the ass when it is so much better to just screw her in it.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Well, if the end result is that he can't do anything legal, I'd find several friends over the period of 3-4 weeks go in and randomly complain about the rudeness of said female employee, about how she was unwilling to help, swore at them and told them to find some other place to shop. If you have friends that are a different race then her even better because they can randomly throw out the race card.

Then if she is fired, call her up and ask her why you would slap her on the ass when it is so much better to just screw her in it.

this is the winner. close the thread.

[Toddzilla]

I work in Virginia, and one day after a week's vacation I came into work to find my desk was cleared off. I went into my manager's office and asked what was going on, thinking they were moving me to another part of the building. He said, "Virginia is a Right-To-Work state, so we are exercising our right to terminate your employment immediately without notice or reason."

That's it.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I work in Virginia, and one day after a week's vacation I came into work to find my desk was cleared off. I went into my manager's office and asked what was going on, thinking they were moving me to another part of the building. He said, "Virginia is a Right-To-Work state, so we are exercising our right to terminate your employment immediately without notice or reason."

That's it.

Sadly no company I've worked for has been willing to exercise this right despite the desperate need to with some employees.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I work in Virginia, and one day after a week's vacation I came into work to find my desk was cleared off. I went into my manager's office and asked what was going on, thinking they were moving me to another part of the building. He said, "Virginia is a Right-To-Work state, so we are exercising our right to terminate your employment immediately without notice or reason."

That's it.

Doesn't "Right To Work" have to do with unions? Should your employer have said something about "At-Will Employment" instead?

[BrianD]

Do we have anybody on the board who is knowledgeable about right-to-work laws? I was under the impression that it gave companies to right to drop a position at will, but not to just fire an employee and re-post the same position/description and get somebody new to fill it. Anybody know if this is true?

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

What, no poll?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I work in Virginia, and one day after a week's vacation I came into work to find my desk was cleared off. I went into my manager's office and asked what was going on, thinking they were moving me to another part of the building. He said, "Virginia is a Right-To-Work state, so we are exercising our right to terminate your employment immediately without notice or reason."

That's it.

Couldn't you have showed up the next day and claimed "Virginia is a Right-To-Work state, so I am exercising my right to work."


A friend of mine was asked by his boss to come into his office. As his boss was talking BS about the company blah blah blah he noticed (glass walls) that the IT guys were taking his computer...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

What, no poll?

I think it was more of a brainstorming session than something that has lots of obvious options.

SI

[Glengoyne]

I think I'd escalate this to HR beyond store management.

Then again it is a job at PetSmart, so I think Mustang's approach is best.

[tarcone]

Put the store number here and we can all call in and complain from home after our horrible "visit" to the petsmart. And the terrible service so and so gave us.

[stevew]

Mustang has the right approach. Have some people call and ask to verify work references for her from time to time. That kind of stuff. Maybe pose as bill collectors or something(highly illegal of course). There will be no justice in this situation, but it can at least be fun.

[mgadfly]

Do NOT take anything that follows as actual legal advice. I don't practice in your state and can't give legal advice. Even if I did practice in your state I wouldn't give you legal advice.

That said, this happens to be the area of law that I do 95% of my work in (the other 5% is simple estate planning and miscellaneous contract work).

My comments:

One poster said that in GA it was illegal to give more information than x, y, and z. I don't know what the laws are in Georgia, but I highly doubt that there is a law that actually prohibits the disclosure of additional information. HR types often times come to this mistaken conclusion because employer-side attorneys drill in to them to give nothing more than x, y, and z because of potential liability for defamation. However, there is a trend of future employers suing previous employers who only give x, y, and z and do not disclose that, for example, the employee was also convicted of child molestation while employed.

Two people disagreed about at-will employment. One said that if you are at-will there isn't much you can do about anything while the other said that any attorney worth two shits will make the at-will status not matter at all. The truth is somewhere in the middle. At-will employment status can be an effective tool used by employers to isolate themselves from liability. Only one of my employer-side clients actually uses this approach (no job descriptions, manuals, or representations of any sort that create any actual or implied employment contract) because it takes incredible discipline and makes it nearly impossible to hire new employees. If done properly, at-will employment can isolate you for terminations for any reason except illegal (see Title VII) reasons. However, most employers can't help but make assurances to employees that they are going to be treated "fairly" or "justly" or some other nonsense that creates a question of whether an implied contract exists or not. Even so, at-will employment is still very important for liability purposes because where employees have no reasonable expectation of future employment, it is hard for them to convince a judge or jury that they should get much in the way of back pay.

One person brought up the idea of suit for defamation against the original accuser. This has tons of problems that I won't get into, but it is a suit that at least passes the "laugh" test. I recently represented a third party in a suit where a doctor discharged a secretary because a patient accused her of having an affair with her husband (another patient/client of the doctor). The secretary sued the patient and the doctor (defamation and wrongful discharge claiming an implied employment contract).

PetSmart causing a lost opportunity of you gettting a six figure income is only a damages issue IF you can find a successful theory to sue on (wrongful discharge of some sort).

Right-to-work vs at-will. 49 of the 50 states (the last time I checked) are at-will states. 22 of the 50 states are right-to-work (for less) states. At-will employment states are those states where employers may terminate an employee for any legal reason (not for race, gender, national origin, religion, pregnancy, etc... but very limited set of defined protected classes). Thus, if an employer gets up in the morning, puts everyone's names in a hat and draws a name out and fires them, that is perfectly legal. Right-to-work states are those states where an employee that goes to work at an employer that has a contract with a labor organization does not have to pay dues or "representational fees" of any sorts even when they choose to take advantage of the union/association benefits.


My bet, without knowing anything about this case, is that PetSmart has a team of attorneys that have done a great job of creating barriers to being sued for wrongful discharge. There is no way for them to protect against being a third party to a defamation case. Your friend should probably try to get his hands on the employee handbook if there is one and see if they have a dispute resolution section (a lot of employers do, but require employees to file a protest within a very short period of time, like 5 days or a week). Absent that he could talk to an attorney about whether he has been wrongfully discharged under any state or federal laws and about the possibility of a defamation suit against the accuser. But... my actual advice would depend on the circumstances. For example, if your friend hadn't been there long and not much work history is at stake maybe a conversation with HR can get him a voluntary quit for purposes of rehire inquiries. If your friend was there a long time and would have a huge hole in his employment record without that time at PetSmart, maybe it is more important to him to pursue whatever is necessary to "clear his name."

But most of my potential clients in this situation usually decide that they don't want to do anything except get a new job.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by mgadfly

But most of my potential clients in this situation usually decide that they don't want to do anything except get a new job.

So you get paid for telling people to forget about it?

That job is cool.