Most important/significant people in human history

[albionmoonlight]

Subjective of course. And I am not thinking in terms of the Butterfly effect. Or even things like "the guy who shot Archduke Ferdinand." But people who were more than coincidentally important.

Right now, I've got my top five as

Jesus Christ
Muhammad
Julius Caesar
Genghis Khan
The Buddha

Could be a Mount Rushmore, of course, but I think that a free flowing conversation might lead to a bit more debate.

[Coffee Warlord]

Certainly not a good guy, but any such list I think has to include Hitler. I suppose one could argue that Germany was ripe for a dictator and he was simply the one that stepped up, but even with that, his actions, and the world's responses, shaped the modern world.

[cuervo72]

Martin Luther immediately comes to mind, but I'm not sure if he cracks the top 5. I need to review Genghis Khan a bit more, above what I feel about him as a warmonger PITA in Civilization.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Certainly not a good guy, but any such list I think has to include Hitler. I suppose one could argue that Germany was ripe for a dictator, and he was simply the one that stepped up, but even with that, his actions, and the world's responses, shaped the modern world.

Good point. I was totally blind to that for some reason.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Martin Luther immediately comes to mind, but I'm not sure if he cracks the top 5. I need to review Genghis Khan a bit more, above what I feel about him as a warmonger PITA in Civilization.

In US history, sure, but human history I think he falls down the ranks. Certainly not discrediting him, just looking at the question in a literal sense

[Lathum]

Steve Jobs
Bill Gates

[Coffee Warlord]

AND...

I'm always torn between Caesar and Augustus, when it comes to Rome. Caesar set the stage, but without Augustus, Rome would have never been what it became. Caesar conquered the world, Augustus created the Empire.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

In US history, sure, but human history I think he falls down the ranks. Certainly not discrediting him, just looking at the question in a literal sense

This Martin Luther.

But, I really don't think you can give two of the five to figures in one religion - and it's kind of hard to unseat the first.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Lathum

In US history, sure, but human history I think he falls down the ranks. Certainly not discrediting him, just looking at the question in a literal sense

I think he means the original Martin Luther - aka the kickstarter of the Reformation.

[Lathum]

yeah, Duh

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Lathum

In US history, sure, but human history I think he falls down the ranks. Certainly not discrediting him, just looking at the question in a literal sense

lol

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Subjective of course. And I am not thinking in terms of the Butterfly effect. Or even things like "the guy who shot Archduke Ferdinand." But people who were more than coincidentally important.

Right now, I've got my top five as

Jesus Christ
Muhammad
Julius Caesar
Genghis Khan
The Buddha

Could be a Mount Rushmore, of course, but I think that a free flowing conversation might lead to a bit more debate.

Going to take a different tack (scientific instead of religious) and try to think of five people off the top of my head:

Socrates
Euclid
Isaac Newton
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Fleming

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Subjective of course. And I am not thinking in terms of the Butterfly effect. Or even things like "the guy who shot Archduke Ferdinand." But people who were more than coincidentally important.

Right now, I've got my top five as

Jesus Christ
Muhammad
Julius Caesar
Genghis Khan
The Buddha

Could be a Mount Rushmore, of course, but I think that a free flowing conversation might lead to a bit more debate.

Since I view JC as fully divine, he doesn't count for me on this sort of list of people. How about St. Paul as the early Christian rep?

[rowech]

Isaac Newton is #1 for me.

[rowech]

If you're going to include Jesus, I think one has to include Paul as well.

[BYU 14]

Have to think Thomas Edison and Da Vinci deserve some consideration for their forward thinking.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Have to think Thomas Edison and Da Vinci deserve some consideration for their forward thinking.

Yeah, these guys were certainly in contention for the list I had.

[Coffee Warlord]

Lot of trouble I have with the inventor types (Edison & Ford were the two I was considering) is the idea that, while they may have done it first, it would have been done in similar fashion by someone else fairly quickly afterwards. Obviously we can't know whether that's an accurate assumption, but think it's a valid argument.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Subby

lol

I deserve that

[fantom1979]

I've tried several times, but am having a hard time narrowing this to 5. Here are some names I thought up that I hadn't seen already:

Galileo Galilei
Sun Tzu
Nikola Tesla
Johann Gutenberg
Euclid

[DaddyTorgo]

Karl Marx
Mahatma Ghandhi

[DaddyTorgo]

There's wayyyy too many choices and way too many categories. You definitely have to subcategorize it to really have quality discussion about the merits of individuals I think.

[DaddyTorgo]

The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History is a 1978 book by Michael H. Hart, reprinted in 1992 with revisions. It is a ranking of the 100 people who, according to Hart, most influenced human history

Hart's Top 10 (from the 1992 edition)

Rank	Name	Time Frame	Image	Occupation	Influence
1	Muhammad	c. 570–632		Secular and religious leader	The central human figure of Islam, regarded by Muslims as a prophet of God and the last messenger. Active as a social reformer, diplomat, merchant, philosopher, orator, legislator, military leader, humanitarian, philanthropist.
2	Isaac Newton	1643–1727		Scientist	English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian. His law of universal gravitation and three laws of motion laid the groundwork for classical mechanics.
3	Jesus Christ	7–2 BC – 26–36 AD		Spiritual leader	The central figure of Christianity, revered by Christians as the Son of God and the incarnation of God. Also regarded as a major prophet in Islam.
4	Buddha	563–483 BC		Spiritual leader	Spiritual teacher and philosopher from ancient India. Founder of Buddhism and is also considered an Gautama Buddha in Hinduism.
5	Confucius	551–479 BC		Philosopher	Chinese thinker and social philosopher, founder of Confucianism, whose teachings and philosophy have deeply influenced Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese and Indonesian thought and life.
6	Paul of Tarsus	5–67 AD		Christian apostle	One of the most notable of early Christian missionaries, credited with proselytizing and spreading Christianity outside of Palestine (mainly to the Romans) and author of numerous letters of the New Testament of the Bible.
7	Cài Lún	50–121 AD		Political official in imperial China	Widely regarded as the inventor of paper and the papermaking process.
8	Johannes Gutenberg	1398–1468		Inventor	German printer who invented the mechanical printing press.
9	Christopher Columbus	1451–1506		Explorer	Italian navigator, colonizer and explorer whose voyages led to general European awareness of the American continents.
10	Albert Einstein	1879–1955		Scientist	German-born theoretical physicist, best known for his theory of relativity and specifically mass–energy equivalence, expressed by the equation E = mc2.

[DaddyTorgo]

So if you knock out the religious people, that's half the Top 10 list right there (per this dude's list).

[Coffee Warlord]

Just because lists are fun, picking 5 is hard, and...jesus, getting it down to just 5 is really fucking hard.

Jesus Christ
Julius Caesar
Adolf Hitler
Muhammed
Karl Marx

edit: I just can't leave out Muhammed. Einstein gets cut, I'm afraid.

[molson]

To me the most significant are those who caused actual migrations of people and who impacted the DNA and the culture of the population that came after them. So I think the two main categories are the those who sparked the spread of religion and those who killed millions and pushed borders and people around. Jesus and Genghis Khan have to the big two if you look at it like that. And I've have to give the edge to Genghis Khan, because while Jesus was the spark that got Christianity started, the spread of Christianity changed the world only after he was gone. Genghis Khan's impacts were more direct and he directly took part in more of them.

[JPhillips]

I'm leaving out religious heads.

Plato
Paul of Tarsus
Confucious
Martin Luther
Genghis Khan

[revrew]

I see a lot of effort on here to give props to a Roman, but I think culturally/politically, you've got the wrong guy. The Romans only ruled because the world was Hellenized, i.e. made Greek. More so than any of the caesars, I suggest Alexander, who put the empire together that the Romans later ruled. (Yes, I know it broke up after Alexander's death, but I would still suggest the Romans owe their cultural dominance to his military dominance).

I suggest:

Jesus
Muhammad
Alexander the Great
Martin Luther
Hitler

In that order

[CleBrownsfan]

Pumpy

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by revrew

I see a lot of effort on here to give props to a Roman, but I think culturally/politically, you've got the wrong guy. The Romans only ruled because the world was Hellenized, i.e. made Greek. More so than any of the caesars, I suggest Alexander, who put the empire together that the Romans later ruled. (Yes, I know it broke up after Alexander's death, but I would still suggest the Romans owe their cultural dominance to his military dominance).

I think the fact that it DID break up after Alexander's death is the major mark against him. Caesar and/or Augustus built something that lasted a long, LONG time. How many nations styled themselves Caesars/successors to Rome after the Empire finally fell?

Alexander's failure to keep an empire drops him beneath the Romans, IMO. There's a long list of conquerors who did similar. The list of conquerors who (to borrow a line from Civ) stood the test of time is much shorter.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Pumpy

This.

None of these other so called "leaders" have ever posed in patriotic undies.

[ISiddiqui]

It is kind of difficult to not be Western focused on such lists (and unfortunately mine will likely be as well).

Jesus Christ
Muhammed
Martin Luther
Genghis Khan
Karl Marx

3 religious, 1 conqueror, and 1 economic philosopher

I think Luther's butterfly effect makes him almost necessary here, though there is an argument that 16th Century Catholicism would have split eventually.

[spleen1015]

Al freaking Gore. He created the Internet and Global Warming.

Cal Ripken, Jr. is my #1 pick though.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm leaving out religious heads.

Plato
Paul of Tarsus
Confucious
Martin Luther
Genghis Khan

Plato over Aristotle?

[QuikSand]

Henry Ford has a much stronger claim than he's being given credit for here.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm with revrew re: Alexander. While the argument that it all fell apart after he died has merit, he set the stage for an overarching empire. I think Caesar and Augustus lose steam because they each played critical parts in building what was the Roman Empire. Alexander did it himself, didn't copy anyone, and it could be argued that the Romans were his legacy, given how much Rome copied Hellenistic ideals.

[Vince, Pt. II]

My top five:

Alexander the Great
Sir Isaac Newton
Genghis Khan
Henry Ford
Muhammad

I leave off Jesus because it's really uncertain if the historical figure was anywhere near the mythologized version we have today from the bible. And while I have a hard time ignoring Buddha/Confucius/many other Eastern potential candidates, their impact hasn't really been major outside of their own locale. Which could be a very western-centric viewpoint, for all I know.

[Chief Rum]

Am I the only that thinks that ideas should trump achievements in lists like these?

Jesus and Muhammad seem the most obvious, but I am not thinking the most significant individuals are conquerers but thinkers.

My shortlist would have to include Confuscius, Ghandi, Plato, Da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Darwin, and Einstein before I could even begin to pare it down, and there are tons of others, too, of course.

IMO, achievements/conquests/life and death events are for the moment--time kills them and quicker than you think. But ideas shape the world, and they are timeless.

[albionmoonlight]

Which women belong in the discussion?

[Vince, Pt. II]

The thing is, these achievements are not just your run of the mill achievements. They're things that changed culture, art, science and the way of life around them. Hellenistic culture was an enormous influence on the entire Mediterranean for an extremely long time, some might argue it's still going today. The Mongolian empire equally shaped the course of history. These are the sort of things that don't get killed...ever.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Joan of Arc is the first that pops to mind, but if we're talking about the scope of all history, there's really not an option I can come up with that comes close to the historical importance of anyone mentioned so far.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Plato over Aristotle?

Plato came first and Aristotle built on a lot of his ideas. I could see an argument for either, but I think someone from Greece needs to be a part of the list. Western society has been built upon the philosophy of the ancient Greeks.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Which women belong in the discussion?

None.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Alexander Fleming

I like this. Think of how many lives have been saved. I'd through Louis Pasteur in the mix too. Alan Turing, Galileo, Darwin, Tesla, and Newton are also names that should be considered important and significant.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

The thing is, these achievements are not just your run of the mill achievements. They're things that changed culture, art, science and the way of life around them. Hellenistic culture was an enormous influence on the entire Mediterranean for an extremely long time, some might argue it's still going today. The Mongolian empire equally shaped the course of history. These are the sort of things that don't get killed...ever.

But what is more important, the idea or the spread of the idea? Is it Plato or Alexander? Jesus or Paul? Confucius or Genghis Khan?

I hear your point, but in my opinion, the idea takes precedence. While the spread of that idea is of critical importance, I believe that that spread was inevitable. Were it not Paul for Jesus, it would have been someone else.

Once the idea is thought and put into words and into human knowledge, it becomes a power for all that follow.

[PilotMan]

I think Civ 5 already answered this question.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

IMO, achievements/conquests/life and death events are for the moment--time kills them and quicker than you think. But ideas shape the world, and they are timeless.

With most ideas though we just celebrate those who happened to have them first and who happened to be able to implement them first. I don't think there's a lot of ideas that were just inherently unique to one person so that they never would have been developed without them. Huge culture and population shifting conquests on the other hand, along the line of Genghis Khan, Alexander, your favorite Roman, etc. aren't inevitable, they didn't have to happen, it took the success of a brilliant leader for the world to shift in a particular direction.

[Chief Rum]

Two other groups to consider, too. Today's most powerful thinkers and our more creative minds. We ignore today because their story is not done, but we could be witnessing truly momentous lives going on as we speak. And human history is told through story and picture and song.

For the first group, how important are Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to today's world? Ted Turner? William Buffet? The Dhalai Lama? Even Mark Zuckerberg?

Or the second group, Shakespeare? Lennon? Beethoven? Van Gogh? Speilberg? Hitchcock? I'm sure I'll get laughs at these choices, but I think our human creativity is a window to our souls.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Which women belong in the discussion?

Eve?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by finketr

Eve?

Lilith?