Longish Range Wireless Network question

Glengoyne · 12-12-2005, 07:01 PM

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to wireless networking. I pulled CAT-5 cable all through my house, so I've never had an issue with connectivity.

However I recent got DSL, eventhough the provider originally told me I was several thousand yards too far out. I just didn't close the install ticket, and they eventually got it working. Well my In-Laws live on the next piece of property, maybe 250 yards away. The Provider won't do anything for them to get access to DSL. They simply say "You're too far away by three thousand yards."

So I want to hook their house up to my Network. I have heard of folks doing this access point to access point with antennas, but I really don't have a clue as to how that works. Also I've read the some of the Pre-N cards and routers will work at ranges of 200-300 yards. That might be easier, but I'm not sure about more reliable.

To complicate the setup my house is in a "hole" relative to theirs, and there are a number of thick tree lines and a couple of metal buildings between the houses.

Anybody done this?

Anybody know of a site where this kind of thing is described?

gottimd · 12-12-2005, 07:13 PM

Isn't there a signal booster or range extender you can get on the wireless router?

geesh, your in-laws are that close to you distance wise?

DaddyTorgo · 12-12-2005, 07:14 PM

antenna-to-antenna i don't think is too hard. i've never done it, but i gather you just point the two at each other and then bang you're pretty good to go.

Glengoyne · 12-12-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

Isn't there a signal booster or range extender you can get on the wireless router?

geesh, your in-laws are that close to you distance wise?

I am blessed with truly great in-laws. We wanted to move to the country, and they had a parcel of their land they split off for us. It only works if they are GREAT people, but they are.

Glengoyne · 12-12-2005, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

antenna-to-antenna i don't think is too hard. i've never done it, but i gather you just point the two at each other and then bang you're pretty good to go.

I think I follow that far. I'm just not sure if there are any settings to configure, or if you need to buy special access points. Also do I need an actual unimpeded line of sight between the antennas? Or will some trees and a some sparse buildings mess that connection up?

DaddyTorgo · 12-12-2005, 09:57 PM

ya got me. there must be "do it yourself" sites for it out there on the interweb though

Airhog · 12-13-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I think I follow that far. I'm just not sure if there are any settings to configure, or if you need to buy special access points. Also do I need an actual unimpeded line of sight between the antennas? Or will some trees and a some sparse buildings mess that connection up?

Some antenna are direction, other are not

The thing about wireless internet, is that the signal is not boosted at all. thats why it gets such a crappy signal. I don't know how much farther range you could get with just a bigger antenna, but might I suggest something like this

Check out this article for more information
http://www.radiolabs.com/Articles/wifi-antenna.html

flere-imsaho · 12-13-2005, 08:39 AM

The folks at this board generally know what they're talking about and include some very accomplished network engineers. Be sure, however, to do a thorough search before asking, since they sometimes don't react well if it's clear you haven't looked through past threads for info.

To that end, their FAQ has a section here that is all about long-range wireless, which should help you get started.

Having said that, I know people who have done it two different ways:

1. Long-range transmitter & reception: I knew a guy who did this, back when I worked for a dot-com. Basically he had a transmitter plugged into the ethernet at work that was pointed at his house a few miles away, and then some sort of antenna receiver at his home which caught the signal. This was about 4 years ago, so I'd expect it's even easier to set up now.

2. Very capable wireless router: I could be wrong, but I think some of the higher-end wireless routers have ranges that go up to several hundred yards.

Anyway, best of luck.

sterlingice · 12-13-2005, 12:57 PM

I'm just curious how this turns out because I'm not sure how to do it.

SI

Airhog · 12-13-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

To that end, their FAQ has a section here that is all about long-range wireless, which should help you get started.

Having said that, I know people who have done it two different ways:

1. Long-range transmitter & reception: I knew a guy who did this, back when I worked for a dot-com. Basically he had a transmitter plugged into the ethernet at work that was pointed at his house a few miles away, and then some sort of antenna receiver at his home which caught the signal. This was about 4 years ago, so I'd expect it's even easier to set up now.

I can't help nitpicking, but it wouldnt be a transmitter/reciever setup. That would assume that the communication was one way. What he probably had was two anteannas, one at work, and one at home. Each one of those was connected to his wireless routers, which is his transceiver

Airhog · 12-13-2005, 04:46 PM

Dola: there is a calculator on that website glengoyne. If you are unsure about the calculations, I can figure out how much power your antenna's would need. I just need the amount of power your router puts out. Will be in either mW, or DB, and might be on the router iteslf, or in the manual. The approximate distance between your house and theirs.

Just remember that you want to go with a bigger antenna than you need, especially if your calculations are approximate.

Glengoyne · 12-13-2005, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

Dola: there is a calculator on that website glengoyne. If you are unsure about the calculations, I can figure out how much power your antenna's would need. I just need the amount of power your router puts out. Will be in either mW, or DB, and might be on the router iteslf, or in the manual. The approximate distance between your house and theirs.

Just remember that you want to go with a bigger antenna than you need, especially if your calculations are approximate.

It would presently be a tall order to give you my router specs, as I don't have one. I've got wires run everywhere, so I'm not wireless at all atm. The whole reason for this foray is to help out my father-in-law, who is struggling along with AOL on Dial-up.

I'm going to be following up on those sites for certain though. Thanks for the links, and you can bet I'll be following up here as I progress. It'll be like a Wireless Dynasty.

DaddyTorgo · 12-13-2005, 11:11 PM

oh geez. aol on dial-up?!?!? help the man!! damM!

stevew · 12-13-2005, 11:55 PM

Couldnt you bury ethernet cable between the houses to link them up? 1000 feet of cable seems to be roughly 60 bucks or so(unless im looking at the wrong thing). No transmitters, no nothing to worry about in that respect.

Glengoyne · 12-14-2005, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Couldnt you bury ethernet cable between the houses to link them up? 1000 feet of cable seems to be roughly 60 bucks or so(unless im looking at the wrong thing). No transmitters, no nothing to worry about in that respect.

I could actually do that. We have the backhoe and everything. It's just that that way, I wouldn't learn anything. The only concern I'd have is this little thing in my head that says you can't run cat-5 farther than 200 yards. I think it would probably work though, because I'm not trying to run 100 Mb between the two sites. Any loss would probably be negligible with the 740Kb load from the DSL. Hmm. That as a backup wouldn't be a bad choice. We'll call that Plan B(For Boring). It is cheap eventhough I'd have to spring for the more expensive direct-bury cable, but digging a 300 yd trench between the two houses is a bit ambitious.

saldana · 12-14-2005, 12:35 AM

i have just a regular old linksys router, but i have a friend that is a systems engineer and got me a firmware upgrade that multiplied my power output by 10 times...i dont know what the actual range is but i know things like that are available.

flere-imsaho · 12-14-2005, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

I can't help nitpicking, but it wouldnt be a transmitter/reciever setup. That would assume that the communication was one way. What he probably had was two anteannas, one at work, and one at home. Each one of those was connected to his wireless routers, which is his transceiver

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Breeze · 12-14-2005, 08:12 AM

You could give this a shot:

Can-tenna

You can purchase them premade on the Internet too. I've also seen where people made them then attached them to a DSS Dish to get better reception.

Breeze · 12-14-2005, 08:23 AM

Here's one you can purchase (I think - didn't read the site that closely):

http://www.cantenna.com/

Airhog · 12-14-2005, 05:09 PM

Okay, I did the calculations for you, using some baseline figures. a 5 db antenna installed on both ends would be close to enough for you. If you don't mind breaking FCC regulations, I would reccomend a 10DB antenna for each house.

Here is what you would have setup

Ethernet Network -> Wireless Bridge -> Antenna <-> Antenna <-Wireless Bridge <-Ethernet Network <- DSL

The bridges are kind of expensive. Your bridge only needs point 2 point connections since you only plan on having 2 networks. Throughput will be slow on their end, only a max of about 500k.

Here is a kit with everything you need, although the antenna's are a too powerful.
http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.c...ROD&ProdID=564

Airhog · 12-14-2005, 05:13 PM

Dola: If they only plan to connect one computer to your network, you could get by without the wireless bridges. If would be more of a pain though, since you have to have a card that allows the antenna to be removed, you would have to run a cable from that computer to the antenna outside. Also, it looks like you might have to put the antenna up high to get a good line of sight. I would reccomend investing in lightning arrestors.

12-12-2005, 07:13 PM	#2
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Isn't there a signal booster or range extender you can get on the wireless router? geesh, your in-laws are that close to you distance wise? __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

12-13-2005, 12:57 PM	#9
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I'm just curious how this turns out because I'm not sure how to do it. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

12-13-2005, 04:46 PM	#11
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Dola: there is a calculator on that website glengoyne. If you are unsure about the calculations, I can figure out how much power your antenna's would need. I just need the amount of power your router puts out. Will be in either mW, or DB, and might be on the router iteslf, or in the manual. The approximate distance between your house and theirs. Just remember that you want to go with a bigger antenna than you need, especially if your calculations are approximate. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

12-14-2005, 05:09 PM	#20
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Okay, I did the calculations for you, using some baseline figures. a 5 db antenna installed on both ends would be close to enough for you. If you don't mind breaking FCC regulations, I would reccomend a 10DB antenna for each house. Here is what you would have setup Ethernet Network -> Wireless Bridge -> Antenna <-> Antenna <-Wireless Bridge <-Ethernet Network <- DSL The bridges are kind of expensive. Your bridge only needs point 2 point connections since you only plan on having 2 networks. Throughput will be slow on their end, only a max of about 500k. Here is a kit with everything you need, although the antenna's are a too powerful. http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.c...ROD&ProdID=564 __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

12-14-2005, 05:13 PM	#21
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Dola: If they only plan to connect one computer to your network, you could get by without the wireless bridges. If would be more of a pain though, since you have to have a card that allows the antenna to be removed, you would have to run a cable from that computer to the antenna outside. Also, it looks like you might have to put the antenna up high to get a good line of sight. I would reccomend investing in lightning arrestors. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

12-12-2005, 07:14 PM	#3
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	antenna-to-antenna i don't think is too hard. i've never done it, but i gather you just point the two at each other and then bang you're pretty good to go.

12-12-2005, 09:57 PM	#6
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	ya got me. there must be "do it yourself" sites for it out there on the interweb though

12-13-2005, 08:39 AM	#8
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	The folks at this board generally know what they're talking about and include some very accomplished network engineers. Be sure, however, to do a thorough search before asking, since they sometimes don't react well if it's clear you haven't looked through past threads for info. To that end, their FAQ has a section here that is all about long-range wireless, which should help you get started. Having said that, I know people who have done it two different ways: 1. Long-range transmitter & reception: I knew a guy who did this, back when I worked for a dot-com. Basically he had a transmitter plugged into the ethernet at work that was pointed at his house a few miles away, and then some sort of antenna receiver at his home which caught the signal. This was about 4 years ago, so I'd expect it's even easier to set up now. 2. Very capable wireless router: I could be wrong, but I think some of the higher-end wireless routers have ranges that go up to several hundred yards. Anyway, best of luck.

12-13-2005, 11:11 PM	#13
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	oh geez. aol on dial-up?!?!? help the man!! damM!

12-13-2005, 11:55 PM	#14
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Couldnt you bury ethernet cable between the houses to link them up? 1000 feet of cable seems to be roughly 60 bucks or so(unless im looking at the wrong thing). No transmitters, no nothing to worry about in that respect.

12-14-2005, 12:35 AM	#16
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	i have just a regular old linksys router, but i have a friend that is a systems engineer and got me a firmware upgrade that multiplied my power output by 10 times...i dont know what the actual range is but i know things like that are available.

12-14-2005, 08:12 AM	#18
Breeze Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern Suburbs of ATL	You could give this a shot: Can-tenna You can purchase them premade on the Internet too. I've also seen where people made them then attached them to a DSS Dish to get better reception.

12-14-2005, 08:23 AM	#19
Breeze Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern Suburbs of ATL	Here's one you can purchase (I think - didn't read the site that closely): http://www.cantenna.com/

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)