More deaths in Europe

[rowech]

At least 60, I would guess terrorism. I'm numb at this point. Fermi's paradox is going to end up being true. We're going to blow ourselves up so some alien species eventually finds the remnants.

[RainMaker]

Up to 73. Some of the photos coming out are terrible.

[Edward64]

Oh great. Easy enough to copy cat. What a mess.

Very sorry for the great loss of life.

[bhlloy]

Fucking wankers. Waited until the end of Euro 2016 for everything to go back to normal and then this...

Agree about the copy cat comment. This is what I think everyone should be genuinely worried about - if you have lone wolves doing this kind of stuff how on earth do you stop it?

[NobodyHere]

Does this affect security at the national conventions?

How do you let crowds of people protest and ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Some of the photos coming out are terrible.

My son actually phoned me to suggest that I don't accidentally click on the video (he'd just seen it at dinner).

I wasn't planning to frankly, but I did appreciate his heads up.

[RainMaker]

Might be time for France to look for new leadership.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Oh great. Easy enough to copy cat. What a mess.

Very sorry for the great loss of life.

From what I've read it's already a common tactic. Mainly in Israel. I guess the high death toll might inspire someone else but this tactic has been known to terrorists for some time.

We actually had one in the US a decade ago.

2006 UNC SUV attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Super Ugly]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Might be time for France to look for new leadership.

Who should they be looking to?

[Dutch]

A 31 year old Frenchman of Tunisian origin is the alleged culprit.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

A 31 year old Frenchman of Tunisian origin is the alleged culprit.

And it is appearing to be a case of a depressed lunatic angry that his wife left him, and not due to any ideological or religious reasons.

Nice terror attack: Truck driver who killed 84 named as 'loner' French-Tunisian criminal who 'became depressed' when wife left him as police question estranged spouse

[Abe Sargent]

I hate to sound a bit dark, but man, when I sometimes I feel like Conversion by the Sword may be better than this at times. I know, not really, and such, but wow. My head knows that's bad, bad, bad. But I sometimes feel it would be easier with my heart.

[Kodos]

Conversion to what? Christianity?

[Julio Riddols]

Conversion to non existence might work, but that would have to be for the whole of humanity. This will keep happening. Just gotta live our lives and hope we're not unfortunate enough to meet our end in such a way.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

And it is appearing to be a case of a depressed lunatic angry that his wife left him, and not due to any ideological or religious reasons.

Nice terror attack: Truck driver who killed 84 named as 'loner' French-Tunisian criminal who 'became depressed' when wife left him as police question estranged spouse

The "no true Muslim" excuse. Just like the Orlando shooter was a repressed homosexual?

[panerd]

Please stop saying the Nice attacks have nothing to do with Islam

.

[RainMaker]

[cartman]

Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel: who was the Bastille Day truck attacker? | World news | The Guardian

Might change as more info comes out, but this is what they are saying at this point:

Despite a criminal record which saw him convicted for the first time in March this year, Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was not known by French or Tunisian officials to have links to terrorist organisations and was said by neighbours to have had little apparent interest in religion.

Echoing the remarks of French officials, security sources in Tunisia said he was not known by the Tunisian authorities to hold radical or Islamist views.

[ISiddiqui]

Cartman, stop upsetting the narrative .

[panerd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Cartman, stop upsetting the narrative .

Occam's razor sometimes helps with the "narrative" as well.

Official: Nice, France, killer radicalized "very quickly" - CBS News

[Dutch]

Yeah, sometimes 2 and 2 does equal 4.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Conversion to non existence might work, but that would have to be for the whole of humanity. This will keep happening. Just gotta live our lives and hope we're not unfortunate enough to meet our end in such a way.

So much this.

[cuervo72]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0ZW0DT

French authorities have yet to produce any evidence that the 31 year-old Tunisian killer, shot dead by police in the attack, had turned to radical Islam. Nevertheless, Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said that Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel may have undergone a rapid change.

Edwin Bakker, Professor at the Centre for Terrorism and Counterterrorism at the University of Leiden in the Netherlands, said Islamic State's claim did not necessarily point to any formal link.

"Islamic State called for such (individual) attacks to be carried out back in 2014. They are also using the public perception that an attack like this seems to fit Islamic State.

"Investigators still have not discovered a direct link between Islamic State and the attacker, so it is a cheap claim," he said.

It would certainly make sense for him to have been inspired by ISIS. But if he had, I feel like he would have said something. ISIS is not exactly modest. It seems like any of them carrying out atrocities generally want others to know they've done this in the name of X, Y, Z. Stake your claim for the virgins and all that. Seems a little odd that he hadn't if that was his motivation.

[cuervo72]

Dola - I don't know if that was this guy's reasoning or not. I'm also not sure if it would be more disconcerting if he was radicalized and could have easily done this, or that he was not radicalized and we have to worry about both extremists and run-of-the-mill lunatics.

[RainMaker]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/16/europe...-on-nice-isis/

They found his number in the phone of an associate of Omar Diaby, a terrorist who lived in Nice.

Bastille Day terrorist was radicalised within months and sent £84,000 to his Tunisian family days before attack

He sent his estranged family more money than he could have made in his lowly jobs.

Even the Prime Minister came out and said it.

I know there's a push for whitewashing the event. But the guy used a tactic very familiar to Islamic terrorists. He had weapons that would have been nearly impossible to acquire in France without help (something Islamic terrorists have been able to do in France). And he sent a sum of money to his family in Tunisia that is right around the amount that "martyrs" are paid for their services in the terrorist world.

Being ignorant of what's happening isn't helping. Just like it didn't when people tried to spread the "Orlando shooter was just a repressed homosexual" nonsense (which the FBI has said there is no evidence of).

[cuervo72]

Yeah, that probably settles it then.

[digamma]

Honestly, like in Orlando, why isn't this a "both and" situation?

Clearly, we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand, but at the same time, we shouldn't make ISIS into an all powerful entity that it isn't. In Orlando and in Nice, we see someone who is disaffected in one way or another and may latch quickly onto an idea, but has no real ties (***huge disclaimer that there are likely still facts to come out in Nice) to a terrorist organization.

Now on the one hand, that's scary and ISIS operatives are probably really excited by the prospect of having loons credit them with terrible tragedies. But on the other hand if we want to really prevent more of these, is there not value in diving deeper into why (1) individuals are disaffected and (2) what might cause them to latch on to extreme Islamism.

It's an easy target to simply say, "hey, if you support Sharia law you're deported," or "no Muslims until we figure out what is going on." (And as an aside, it's interesting that we don't take that same approach in some way to Charleston or Tucson or Aurora or Newtown.)

There's a second (or third or fourth) level here that I hope our investigators, operatives, policymakers and others are really delving into. It's not a simple answer at all, in my mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

Now on the one hand, that's scary and ISIS operatives are probably really excited by the prospect of having loons credit them with terrible tragedies.

That's actually one of my more frequent cautions when I see "ISIS this" or "ISIS that". At this point there isn't much they wouldn't take credit for -- Hindenburg, Lindbergh Baby, Happy Days infamous shark jump -- because there's really not much down side for them in it.

Taking "credit" (and getting it) without expending any energy or resources? That's kind of a no-brainer.

[EagleFan]

It's also hiding one's head in the sand by trying to discredit the influence. Just because someone isn't hanging out with other ISIS members doesn't make the influence of the message any different. It's a deranged individual (but that would define all ISIS members) that is acting because of the influence of ISIS and the message of ISIS.

Regardless; ISIS is a cancer that needs to be completely removed from the face of the earth.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's also hiding one's head in the sand by trying to discredit the influence. Just because someone isn't hanging out with other ISIS members doesn't make the influence of the message any different. It's a deranged individual (but that would define all ISIS members) that is acting because of the influence of ISIS and the message of ISIS.

Regardless; ISIS is a cancer that needs to be completely removed from the face of the earth.

Yeah I don't care if this loon actually believes in the message of ISIS or not. If they gave him a boat load of money and the means to carry out the attacks then they are directly responsible.

[RainMaker]

Smaller attack on a train today.

German train axe attack: '17-year-old Afghan' shot dead after injuring four

[RainMaker]

This is creepy.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146850...error-attacks/

[RainMaker]

Also still can't figure out his motive I'm guessing.

Paris prosecutor: Nice attacker searched online for Islamic State

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also still can't figure out his motive I'm guessing.

Paris prosecutor: Nice attacker searched online for Islamic State

From the article:

Cazeneuve told France's RTL radio that Bouhlel, a Nice resident from Tunisia, may have been inspired by the Islamic State, but any "links for now have not been established by the investigation.”

[RainMaker]

Log In - The New York Times

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Log In - The New York Times

Article doesn't show up when I clicked it, but I'm suspecting (by title) it's about the latest news that the French now think the Nice attacker planned this for months.

[EagleFan]

A shooting in Munich now.

[EagleFan]

Shopping center in Munich. Shooter is still on the loose. Possibly as many as 15 dead.

[RainMaker]

Seems like 3 shooters.

[EagleFan]

When will this workplace violence end?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Shopping center in Munich. Shooter is still on the loose. Possibly as many as 15 dead.

absolutely no verified numbers yet. Just as an FYI, not meant as an offense ...

Also no number on the shooters. 1 (duh ...) confirmed, 3 speculated. The 1 apparently ran around screaming in German about how he was born here and other stuff in that area. Fleeing after the shooting, starting outside the center and moving out very early again. That to me does not really match with what you´d expect from a islamist (suicide) shooting ...

It´s also noteworthy that it´s the 5th "anniversary" of the Breivik massacre in Norway (July 22 2011, 77 dead). I would absolutely not rule out a right-extremist motivation right now ...

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by whomario

absolutely no verified numbers yet. Just as an FYI, not meant as an offense ...

Also no number on the shooters. 1 (duh ...) confirmed, 3 speculated. The 1 apparently ran arround screaming in German. Fleeing after the shooting, starting outside the center and moving out very early again. That to me does not really match with what you´d expect from a suicide-shooting ...

It´s also the 5th "anniversary" of the Breivik massacre in Norway (July 22 2011). I would absolutely not rule out a right-extremist motivation right now ...

Sorry, that was just based on early reports.

[EagleFan]

Okay, they just played a video of the start of this. The question I have is why someone was randomly filming a guy in front of McDonalds. It's not like something else was being filmed and the camera swung over to that when it started. The person doing the filming starts to focus directly on that guy before he swung the gun out and started to fire.

[EagleFan]

Now seeing 6 people reported killed.

[EagleFan]

Unconfirmed shots reported elsewhere in the city. May be the normal mass confusion during one of these things.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Unconfirmed shots reported elsewhere in the city. May be the normal mass confusion during one of these things.

False Alarm in the city center as per official Press release by the police (which they don´t do if its at all unclear). The shooting took place a fair bit outside the city center as well, near the olympic park. (kinda like how american malls are outside the city)

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Okay, they just played a video of the start of this. The question I have is why someone was randomly filming a guy in front of McDonalds. It's not like something else was being filmed and the camera swung over to that when it started. The person doing the filming starts to focus directly on that guy before he swung the gun out and started to fire.

Looks to me like he was filming the road and cars (yeah, random but then again people film the weirdest shit all the time), then focuses onto the guy after he came out the door. Think it´s likely he saw him carry a weapon and used the camera zoom instinctively ...

[EagleFan]

Another video of someone on the roof of a parking garage. Curious what the rest of that garage looks like. It seems like an odd place to start shooting as he wasn't at the edge shooting down.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Another video of someone on the roof of a parking garage. Curious what the rest of that garage looks like. It seems like an odd place to start shooting as he wasn't at the edge shooting down.

Didn´t start there, 99% sure he fled there and then shot due to being engaged (in a "wtf are you idiot doing, you asshole" manner) by the residents from the nearby highrise.

Originally Posted by whomario

The 1 apparently ran around screaming in German about how he was born here and other stuff in that area.

correction/addendum: This is even on the tape that EagleFan probably refers to. He got into a shouting match with nearby residents who engaged him from their balcony while he was on the deck of said parking garage ...

Another eye witness reports that one of the suspects shouted what is translatable as "fucking foreigners".

[stevew]

Every time something like this happens we get that much closer to a Trump presidency.

[sabotai]

Sky News on Twitter: "Local media has reported that one gunman in #Munich has shot himself in the head: https://t.co/Djhv5jHYk0 https://t.co/wbMSSz5TXt"

One shooter down according to local media (I'm assuming that means Munich media).