The death of PC 'high-end' gaming?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I chatted with a few writers about some frightening sales numbers for what were considered big PC games. Crysis, highly touted for its bleeding-edge graphics, has only sold 86K units to this point. Unreal Tournament 3, which is a PC staple known for its mod user base, only sold 31K units of the PC version.

Has the market finally reached the point where the level of PC upgrades constantly needed for these kinds of games has surpassed the point where PC gamers feel that it's too much? The console versions of some of these PC games are very similar to the PC version. Do the PC developers need to start concentrating on simulation-based games and stop developing graphics-intense games for the PC?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wonder if consoles aren't sucking off a lot of the audience for these sorts of games?

[stevew]

Some guys at work were talking about Crysis i think. Something to the effect that it requires roughly a 1500 dollar video card to run at optimized settings? I think that's the game they were talking about, anyways. And, yeah, PC gaming does seem to be down quite a bit. At least that's what I think Jim was alluding to awhile back.

[bhlloy]

I'm pretty much done with PC gaming right now. I have a Dell that is about a year and a half old, nothing special but I did make extra sure to upgrade the graphics card to 512mb and the RAM to 2gig. The processor is a bit dated but it's still dual core. I can't run any of the new games without taking the graphics down to the lowest setting, and still it's a bit dicey.

Makes much more sense to just use the XBox 360, which is a one time investment and I know that the games are going to work and be optimized for that system, rather than having to look to upgrade or buy a new PC entirely every year.

So, in short, everything you said is true in my case.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I wonder if consoles aren't sucking off a lot of the audience for these sorts of games?

My personal situation is that I just stopped buying PC games altogether except for sports text sims like FM, OOTP, FOF, etc. The final straw for me was Europa Universalis 3. It's a strategy game at it's core, yet they built in a bunch of graphics that would have forced me to upgrade a card that ran Civ 4 just fine.

I just plan on purchasing bargain bin PC games in the future. It's too much trouble to get a PC game to work when I can pop in a game with great graphics on the PS3 or 360 without having to worry whether the game will work on my system.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

My personal situation is that I just stopped buying PC games altogether except for sports text sims like FM, OOTP, FOF, etc. The final straw for me was Europa Universalis 3. It's a strategy game at it's core, yet they built in a bunch of graphics that would have forced me to upgrade a card that ran Civ 4 just fine.

I just plan on purchasing bargain bin PC games in the future. It's too much trouble to get a PC game to work when I can pop in a game with great graphics on the PS3 or 360 without having to worry whether the game will work on my system.

This is interesting because Civ4 crashes out all the time on my computer even on the lowest graphics settings, but EU3 works fine. No idea why, although there seems to be a whole thread on the Firaxis boards with people having the same issue.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I wonder if consoles aren't sucking off a lot of the audience for these sorts of games?

I think the answer is threefold and will echo the above:

1. I think this latest generation of counsels has finally sucked in a lot of the PC crowd.

2. The cost of keeping up with the latest technology needed to run certain games is annoying and expensive.

3. World of Warcraft.

I dont' have a next gen counsel and haven't bought a game for my PS2 for well over a year. That said, I've only bought a few PC games over that time (Civ IV expansions, Eastside Hockey Manager, Mount & Blade, and maybe one or two more) and can't think of any I am looking forward to.

[rkmsuf]

It would seem that the same percentage of people that feel the need to have a 360, PS3 and Wii are about the same as those that feel the need to spend 1,500 bucks to upgrade their pc to play a game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

This is interesting because Civ4 crashes out all the time on my computer even on the lowest graphics settings, but EU3 works fine. No idea why, although there seems to be a whole thread on the Firaxis boards with people having the same issue.

As much as I like Civ4 and EU3, there's no reason to have the level of requirements on those two games that they were released with. Extremely frustrating.

[Travis]

My last desktop purchase was a $2,500 machine for school, work and gaming use. That was in 2002 and by the end of 05 it was time to decide whether to replace the machine and continue PC gaming or spend around $1,000 on a 17" laptop, then the difference in a HDTV, HDPVR and PS3 to fulfill my gaming needs.

Probably would've been a harder choice if I still needed a more powerful machine for work/school, but I do love my 37" HDTV.

[sabotai]

The problem with Crysis (and I don't know about UT3) is that it requires DirectX 10 (or atleast that's what I heard awhile back), thus it requires Vista. I'd be shocked if the vast majority of PC owners weren't still running XP. I'd be shocked if the vast majority of PC gamers weren't still running XP, for that matter.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As much as I like Civ4 and EU3, there's no reason to have the level of requirements on those two games that they were released with. Extremely frustrating.

Well, I'd assume it was because they wanted to make money . Like it or not, plenty of gamers will NOT by a game that has horribly dated graphics. Even games like Civ4 or EU3 have to upgrade their graphics engines in order to have more than just the core fans buy the games.

[Synovia]

$500 graphics card vs $500 full computer(Ps3/360)...



Graphics cards have become much more expensive, consoles much more powerful.

[astrosfan64]

PC gamers are playing MMO's, RTS games and Shooters. I didn't think I would ever choose a console but over the last few years I've been really sucked in.

The downfall for me was this. Sports games on the PC's either don't exist or the suck. THe next gen version of NHL and Madden are so much better then the PC versions. It isn't even close.

I have a really nice computer and monitor and a nice TV and a 360. I didn't think I would ever get into a shooter for a console, but Halo 3 sucked me in.

So, now I'm only playing RTS games and MMO's on my computer and sport sims on my computer.

I can't see a console taking the RTS market. Playing a RTS game without a mouse and a keyboard is horrible.

MMO's have a shot if the control scheme is setup correctly and the wait times aren't to made when zoning. You need a good keyboard scheme for an MMO to work well. Not everyone wants to use voice chat to communicate.

I don't see a "high end" game coming out that I really want other then Conan. I'm just assuming that this is high end.

One thing to note, Crysis I bet will sell steady for the next two years.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

So, now I'm only playing RTS games and MMO's on my computer and sport sims on my computer.

I can't see a console taking the RTS market. Playing a RTS game without a mouse and a keyboard is horrible.

Hold on, you're bitching about the Wii not appealing to you, and then saying RTS will never be good on the console because of no mouse?


The Wii MOTE IS A MOUSE.

[gstelmack]

I think this entire thread is about 4 years too late.

[Atocep]

Vista isn't required for Crysis. It runs fine on a directx 9 system and the graphical differences are rather minimal. Their mistake was creating a game that the average user isn't going to be able to play for another year, if not more.


World of Warcraft is cannibalizing almost the entire PC market. It has over 9 million subscribers of which the vast majority spend their PC gaming time playing WoW. World of Warcraft at first was great for MMOs and great for PCs because it pulled in more customers and brought more attention to both. However, at this stage no one really wants to go up against blizzard's endless supply of money so more attention is going toward consoles and that leaves PCs in bad shape outside of WoW.

Unreal Tournament was released at a horrible time. Team Fortress 2 and Quake Wars were both released within 2 months of UT3 and its had a heavy impact on sales. Add to that the fact that its been an incredible year as far as quality PC titles go and some good games were bound to suffer.

PCs will always be able to do MMOs and First Person Shooters better and since they aren't going away, PC gaming will always be around. But consoles are much easier to develop for, have a wider audience, and are now patchable. Unless something drastic happens such as a hardware standard for all parts then consoles will continue to dominate.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

One thing to note, Crysis I bet will sell steady for the next two years.

I think this is true for a lot of PC games. I think their shelf life is much longer than console games. One reason would be that while not many people can buy your game at release, there will always be a steady stream of consumers who have recently upgrade/bought a new PC that will be looking for a high-end game to play.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

The downfall for me was this. Sports games on the PC's either don't exist or the suck. THe next gen version of NHL and Madden are so much better then the PC versions. It isn't even close.

Here is a highly debatable point --- at least for Madden. I have no idea about the NHL games.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Vista isn't required for Crysis. It runs fine on a directx 9 system and the graphical differences are rather minimal. Their mistake was creating a game that the average user isn't going to be able to play for another year, if not more.

Ah, they must have changed it then. Back when Vista first came out, they also showed video footage of Crysis and said it would only be available on Vista. They must have came to their senses.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Hold on, you're bitching about the Wii not appealing to you, and then saying RTS will never be good on the console because of no mouse?


The Wii MOTE IS A MOUSE.

I think you missed the "and keyboard" part of the equation.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think you missed the "and keyboard" part of the equation.

All the next-gen consoles have USB ports. USB keyboards work on all of them.

[ISiddiqui]

Do you really think a Wiimote and keyboard would work as well? I'd imagine there'd have to be some gymnastics involved. With a mouse, you can work in a small box right next to the keyboard.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

The downfall for me was this. Sports games on the PC's either don't exist or the suck. I don't see a "high end" game coming out that I really want other then Conan. I'm just assuming that this is high end. One thing to note, Crysis I bet will sell steady for the next two years.

Yes, I have also been following Conan since I heard about it. Have yet to be selected for the Beta , but so goes life. Either way, it looks pretty cool....

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Do you really think a Wiimote and keyboard would work as well? I'd imagine there'd have to be some gymnastics involved. With a mouse, you can work in a small box right next to the keyboard.

Honestly, after a couple of hours of playing Zelda/RE/etc, I think the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo is MUCH more intuitive than the keyboard/mouse.

[RomaGoth]

I have played numerous consoles in the past (Sega Genesis, PS1, PS2, Xbox, Nintendo, Super Nintendo), but have not played any next-gen systems yet. I have been playing PC games 100% for the last 2-3 years now. I am getting to the point, however, where I am not sure which way to go. I have heard various rumors about the 360. Is it stable? Does it freeze up a lot? Does it crash a lot? I never had any problems with the original Xbox, but I went through 2 PS2's within 2 years. So, needless to say, I will not be purchasing a PS3. Some of my PC games do not work either (Star Wars KOTOR 1 & 2 for instance), despite my brand new 17" laptop (core 2 duo 2.2ghz, Nvidia Geforce 8600GT video card). I finally gave up on those games and sold them. Now, I rarely play anything on my PC but sports sim games. I even got rid of Madden, it is the same stupid game every year for crying out loud. Not sure what I am gonna do right now.....

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Vista isn't required for Crysis. It runs fine on a directx 9 system and the graphical differences are rather minimal. Their mistake was creating a game that the average user isn't going to be able to play for another year, if not more.


World of Warcraft is cannibalizing almost the entire PC market. It has over 9 million subscribers of which the vast majority spend their PC gaming time playing WoW. World of Warcraft at first was great for MMOs and great for PCs because it pulled in more customers and brought more attention to both. However, at this stage no one really wants to go up against blizzard's endless supply of money so more attention is going toward consoles and that leaves PCs in bad shape outside of WoW.

Unreal Tournament was released at a horrible time. Team Fortress 2 and Quake Wars were both released within 2 months of UT3 and its had a heavy impact on sales. Add to that the fact that its been an incredible year as far as quality PC titles go and some good games were bound to suffer.

PCs will always be able to do MMOs and First Person Shooters better and since they aren't going away, PC gaming will always be around. But consoles are much easier to develop for, have a wider audience, and are now patchable. Unless something drastic happens such as a hardware standard for all parts then consoles will continue to dominate.

Good post.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Hold on, you're bitching about the Wii not appealing to you, and then saying RTS will never be good on the console because of no mouse?


The Wii MOTE IS A MOUSE.

A very uncomfortable mouse. It is a pointing device where I must steady my hand in the air and move my arm and hand around while be suspended in the air.

A mouse for a computer, i move my wrist in a comfortable postion. A mouse on a computer is high def, the Wii Mote is not.

[stevew]

lol about being able to use the wii remote for precision tasks.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

A very uncomfortable mouse. It is a pointing device where I must steady my hand in the air and move my arm and hand around while be suspended in the air.

A mouse for a computer, i move my wrist in a comfortable postion. A mouse on a computer is high def, the Wii Mote is not.

You can rest your hand in a comfortable position with a wii-mote. Just lay your arm on the arm-rest (get it?) of your sofa.

The definition on the wii-mote is fine for aiming assuming the sensitivity is properly set.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Atocep

World of Warcraft is cannibalizing almost the entire PC market.

The PC game market was in decline (retail sales-wise) long before WoW. WoW has made the situation worse recently, but it is not the cause of the problem.

[TroyF]

My PC gaming consists of:

Poker
Text based Sims.
GameTap. (and I use a 360 wired controller for most of those games)

I've given up on the high end PC gaming for a number of reasons. The first is that I stare at a computer most of the day at work. I like being able to kick back on the couch and play on a big screen. I'm also tired of paying for the system requirements. I buy a PS3, Wii or 360 and I'm done. I don't have to upgrade my video card, my memory or screw with licensing issues or 5 disc installs. I put in a CD and I'm playing a minute later. It's quick, easy and painless.


GameTap is for most of my classic arcade hits or the game I might have missed. They can all be played on a laptop or my PC if I feel like it. But none of the games there have killed my system yet. (and I have a feeling 1941 never will)

[Karlifornia]

I delivered a pizza to this mid-50's couple. And they were in full Nintendo Wii mania. I couldn't believe it. They were telling me how they don't even exercise anymore, because they get enough of a workout playing the Wii. It just showed me consoles have taken over. Now, would these people be playing PC if the Wii weren't around? Surely not. But, if 50 year olds are doing the console thing now, then it's completely taken over. That wasn't even imaginable 10 years ago.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I chatted with a few writers about some frightening sales numbers for what were considered big PC games. Crysis, highly touted for its bleeding-edge graphics, has only sold 86K units to this point. Unreal Tournament 3, which is a PC staple known for its mod user base, only sold 31K units of the PC version.

Has the market finally reached the point where the level of PC upgrades constantly needed for these kinds of games has surpassed the point where PC gamers feel that it's too much? The console versions of some of these PC games are very similar to the PC version. Do the PC developers need to start concentrating on simulation-based games and stop developing graphics-intense games for the PC?

I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction.
I think software studios are trying to kill PC gaming.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by TroyF

My PC gaming consists of:

Poker
Text based Sims.
GameTap. (and I use a 360 wired controller for most of those games)

I've given up on the high end PC gaming for a number of reasons. The first is that I stare at a computer most of the day at work. I like being able to kick back on the couch and play on a big screen. I'm also tired of paying for the system requirements. I buy a PS3, Wii or 360 and I'm done. I don't have to upgrade my video card, my memory or screw with licensing issues or 5 disc installs. I put in a CD and I'm playing a minute later. It's quick, easy and painless.


GameTap is for most of my classic arcade hits or the game I might have missed. They can all be played on a laptop or my PC if I feel like it. But none of the games there have killed my system yet. (and I have a feeling 1941 never will)

Good points. I am also on a computer all day at work, and by the time I get home I want to be as far away as possible from mine. I may end up buying a console again......

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I delivered a pizza to this mid-50's couple. And they were in full...

Dude, given the way this story started, the whole Wii angle was pretty disappointing. This could have been Penthouse Forum material...

[Calis]

The PC upgrade path is a pain, but I look at it this way. When I get a new PC I have 4-5 years worth of backlogged games to play.

I don't think PC gaming is dying. It's becoming niche, but it'll always be there. I prefer it a lot of times personally. Look at Oblivion on the 360/PS3 compared to the PC for instance. Now if console games start becoming moddable, then the PC is in trouble, but for now I think it's fine. I like it, but then again I mostly only play RPG's(PC-style RPG's, not console style, sims(text or flight/sub/tank), and wargames and I think those will be sticking there for good, along with RTS and some of the FPS'es.

I think the problem with Crysis, UT3 is that neither of them were particularly good games. Crysis was hyped, but not for being great..for being a hog. I'm not surprised it didn't sell well, and the consensus seems to be that it gets pretty crappy as the game goes on, so I think more people are passing on it. UT3 really devolved from 2004, they took out a couple modes people loved and didn't add a whole lot to it. I think Team Fortress 2 is still the game of choice for online shooters this year, and it's fantastic. There's always tons of people on when I log-in, so I'm guessing that sold pretty well.

[Big Fo]

I hope not, there are a number of PC games I enjoy that just wouldn't be viable from a control/sales potential standpoint on consoles. Paradox games, sports management sims, Civilization (yeah I know that's coming to consoles, it remains to be seen how much it is "dumbed down"), I rarely play FPS but I picked up Bioshock this year and enjoyed that but I wouldn't find that game to be as fun with a dual analog controller.

I don't see PC gaming going away anytime soon, as Calis stated, because of the niche games. PC gaming relative to console gaming is also bigger in a lot of European countries, which helps a little bit.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Atocep

PCs will always be able to do MMOs and First Person Shooters better and since they aren't going away, PC gaming will always be around. But consoles are much easier to develop for, have a wider audience, and are now patchable. Unless something drastic happens such as a hardware standard for all parts then consoles will continue to dominate.

I don't know firsthand, but I was under the impression that consoles (or maybe it's just specific consoles) were more difficult to develop for, but more profitable.

I pretty much agree with HB - Warcraft, consoles, technology cost.

I'd also add that there hasn't been a ton of really revolutionary games on the PC in a long, long time. There's a lot of sequels out there, and even the stuff that isn't a sequel feels like it's something seen before.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I don't know firsthand, but I was under the impression that consoles (or maybe it's just specific consoles) were more difficult to develop for, but more profitable.

I pretty much agree with HB - Warcraft, consoles, technology cost.

I'd also add that there hasn't been a ton of really revolutionary games on the PC in a long, long time. There's a lot of sequels out there, and even the stuff that isn't a sequel feels like it's something seen before.

Early on in a console's cycle they're difficult to develop for but you're still only developing for one standard. PC developers have to develop with ATI and Nvidia in mind, intel and AMD, soundblaster and other sound cards. They have to keep every system configuration in mind along with now having to develop a game that works on both XP and Vista.

I'm by no means an expert in game development, but I've always heard PCs are harder to develop on for the above reasons and Vista has made things harder.

[Draft Dodger]

Vista makes EVERYTHING harder!

[Warhammer]

I think computers will stick around for a lot longer, even if only for niche games, because there are one type of games that they do very well. Any type of simulation or slower game is going to be preferable on a computer. I think if the gaming manufacturers would realize that while the kids might be playing on the console in the house, the adults would be playing on the computer. Make games geared towards them, and you could see things pick up in the computer market.

[dawgfan]

Anybody know what the sales figures are for the Orange Box on the 360 vs. the PC? I think that would be pretty instructive. I bought it for the PC (and I've had no problems running it on my 2 and 3 year old systems), but I'd bet it's selling pretty well for the 360.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Anybody know what the sales figures are for the Orange Box on the 360 vs. the PC? I think that would be pretty instructive. I bought it for the PC (and I've had no problems running it on my 2 and 3 year old systems), but I'd bet it's selling pretty well for the 360.

PC sales numbers are hard to judge because Direct2Drive and Steam are becoming more and more popular and they don't factor into any sales charts. I know for TF2 a ton of people were buying it on Steam because it allowed you access to the game while it was in open beta.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

PC sales numbers are hard to judge because Direct2Drive and Steam are becoming more and more popular and they don't factor into any sales charts. I know for TF2 a ton of people were buying it on Steam because it allowed you access to the game while it was in open beta.

Yeah, also I would think that a lot of people would buy it on the PC for a superior multiplayer experience (mouse and keyboard vs. controller) for Team Fortress 2.

Which makes me think - I wonder if the majority of people that decided to buy the Orange Box for the PC instead of the 360 (assuming they had the option) did so because Team Fortress 2 was the main reason for buying it in the first place? For Portal, I'm not sure it would make a huge difference...

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I chatted with a few writers about some frightening sales numbers for what were considered big PC games. Crysis, highly touted for its bleeding-edge graphics, has only sold 86K units to this point. Unreal Tournament 3, which is a PC staple known for its mod user base, only sold 31K units of the PC version.

Has the market finally reached the point where the level of PC upgrades constantly needed for these kinds of games has surpassed the point where PC gamers feel that it's too much? The console versions of some of these PC games are very similar to the PC version. Do the PC developers need to start concentrating on simulation-based games and stop developing graphics-intense games for the PC?

In America PC games sales have definitely declined from what I can say - this appears to be at least partially due to the fact that there isn't much in the way of 'games shops' which stock more than a very small amount of PC titles (Gamestop here has probably a maximum of 30-40 titles of which around 20 are 'casual' games).

This means less exposure and less time for an average product on the shelf - leading to less sales.

The good news though is that PC games worldwide are still enough to support from pretty intensive game development costs and there are still a fair few PC titles selling over 1,000,000 copies when released.

(also bear in mind that PC titles also have a much higher revenue rate for publishers because they don't have to pay anything outside of their production costs (ie. no dues to the console manufacturer) ... this again makes them more viable)

[MizzouRah]

My pc purchases are text sims and games for my 11 year old daughter. I am too, tired of the video card upgrade saga.

[Buccaneer]

My PC gaming consist of:

Civ4
playing some of my old favorites
and Civ4.

In 2007, I bought only one PC game and that was an expansion pack. I am very content with what I have and will not go near a console (like 'over my dead body'), so I guess PC games can die (except for Civ5, Civ6, etc.) and I'll be covered.

[Swaggs]

Not a big surprise. When I go to an EB or Gamestop and look at the shelf space dedicated to PC games now versus 5-years ago, it is just plain sad.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I am very content with what I have and will not go near a console (like 'over my dead body')...

I don't get this attitude. Some games I enjoy better on a console (actiony, arcadey games), and some games enjoy better on the PC (strategy games, sims). It doesn't have to be an either/or.

There really aren't any console games you like, or is this some silly reactionary attitude that prevents you from looking at consoles in a rational way?