Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is well put.

Richard Cohen - The Ugly New McCain - washingtonpost.com

The Ugly New McCain
By Richard Cohen
Wednesday, September 17, 2008;

Following his loss to George W. Bush in the 2000 South Carolina primary, John McCain did something extraordinary: He confessed to lying about how he felt about the Confederate battle flag, which he actually abhorred. "I broke my promise to always tell the truth," McCain said. Now he has broken that promise so completely that the John McCain of old is unrecognizable. He has become the sort of politician he once despised.
The precise moment of McCain's abasement came, would you believe, not at some news conference or on one of the Sunday shows but on "The View," the daytime TV show created by Barbara Walters. Last week, one of the co-hosts, Joy Behar, took McCain to task for some of the ads his campaign has been running. One deliberately mischaracterized what Barack Obama had said about putting lipstick on a pig -- an Americanism that McCain himself has used. The other asserted that Obama supported teaching sex education to kindergarteners.

"We know that those two ads are untrue," Behar said. "They are lies."
Freeze. Close in on McCain. This was the moment. He has largely been avoiding the press. The Straight Talk Express is now just a brand, an ad slogan like "Home Cooking" or "We Will Not Be Undersold." Until then, it was possible for McCain to say that he had not really known about the ads, that the formulation "I approve this message" was just boilerplate. But he didn't.

"Actually, they are not lies," he said.

Actually, they are.

McCain has turned ugly. His dishonesty would be unacceptable in any politician, but McCain has always set his own bar higher than most. He has contempt for most of his colleagues for that very reason: They lie. He tells the truth. He internalizes the code of the McCains -- his grandfather, his father: both admirals of the shining sea. He serves his country differently, that's all -- but just as honorably. No more, though.

I am one of the journalists accused over the years of being in the tank for McCain. Guilty. Those doing the accusing usually attributed my feelings to McCain being accessible. This is the journalist-as-puppy school of thought: Give us a treat, and we will leap into a politician's lap.

Not so. What impressed me most about McCain was the effect he had on his audiences, particularly young people. When he talked about service to a cause greater than oneself, he struck a chord. He expressed his message in words, but he packaged it in the McCain story -- that man, beaten to a pulp, who chose honor over freedom. This had nothing to do with access. It had to do with integrity.

McCain has soiled all that. His opportunistic and irresponsible choice of Sarah Palin as his political heir -- the person in whose hands he would leave the country -- is a form of personal treason, a betrayal of all he once stood for. Palin, no matter what her other attributes, is shockingly unprepared to become president. McCain knows that. He means to win, which is all right; he means to win at all costs, which is not.

At a forum last week at Columbia University, McCain said, "But right now we have to restore trust and confidence in government." This was always the promise of John McCain, the single best reason to vote for him. America has been cheated on too many times -- the lies of Vietnam and Watergate and Iraq. So many lies. Who believes that in Afghanistan last month, only five civilians were killed by the American military in an airstrike, instead of the approximately 90 claimed by the Afghan government? Not me. I first gave up on the military during Vietnam and then again when it covered up the death of Pat Tillman, the Army Ranger and former NFL player who was killed in 2004 by friendly fire.

McCain was going to fix all that. He was going to look the American people in the eyes and say, not me. I will not lie to you. I am John McCain, son and grandson of admirals. I tell the truth.

But Joy Behar knew better. And so McCain lied about his lying and maybe thinks that if he wins the election, he can -- as he did in South Carolina -- renounce who he was and what he did and resume his old persona. It won't work. Karl Marx got one thing right -- what he said about history repeating itself. Once is tragedy, a second time is farce. John McCain is both.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Hasn't that been talked about dating back to the primaries?

Yes, it was discussed early on in the primaries, but went away as he pulled ahead of Clinton. Now that his polling lead has disappeared, the 'R' word has emerged again. Also, the writer implies that there's no other explanation for why Obama isn't way ahead at this point. That's a pretty hefty assumption.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Isn't it still awfully early in the game to be playing this card?

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Cafferty: Obama: Race a factor? « - Blogs from CNN.com

I this crap silly. Like I said before, race is a factor, but it isn't that large of one... the proof? Look at how the polls have been moving for McCain. Recall that during the DNC, Obama had about an 8 to 9 pt lead. Are these people saying that some of those people magically became racists?

[Toddzilla]

Seems the motivated group over at 4Chan was able to hack into Sarah Palin's personal Yahoo! account. Info is available via teh google.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Missed this earlier. I still think that the investigator should step down. That was the easiest thing for me to argue from the other side, because I guarantee you liberals would be livid if Biden was being investigated by someone who said the result of the investigation could be an "October surprise." French should step down, and then it would be much harder for Palin to argue the investigation is partisan, and would look much worse for dodging it.

stepping down or not is small potatoes to me. If it means a cleaner result, no matter the result, than fine, he should go but she should cooperate with the investigation like she said she would.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Seems the motivated group over at 4Chan was able to hack into Sarah Palin's personal Yahoo! account. Info is available via teh google.

This kind of stuff is going to only cause more of a backlash. Not sure why they would even consider this to be a good idea.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I this crap silly. Like I said before, race is a factor, but it isn't that large of one... the proof? Look at how the polls have been moving for McCain. Recall that during the DNC, Obama had about an 8 to 9 pt lead. Are these people saying that some of those people magically became racists?

During the democratic primaries, I remember several discussions amongst some pollsters about a "hidden racism" factor -- something to the effect that a certain percentage of people would tell a pollster that they would be voting for Obama (because they wanted to "seem" to be open minded), but in the privacy of the voting booth they voted for Clinton. It remains to be seen if this will show up in the general election, but given the closeness of the polls, even a small occurance of this could be very significant in how accurate the final polls are in predicting the actual outcome of the election.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This kind of stuff is going to only cause more of a backlash. Not sure why they would even consider this to be a good idea.

in anything, anything, there is fatigue so if the right (or left) goes to the well too often the ROI will get smaller and smaller until that return goes negative.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

During the democratic primaries, I remember several discussions amongst some pollsters about a "hidden racism" factor -- something to the effect that a certain percentage of people would tell a pollster that they would be voting for Obama (because they wanted to "seem" to be open minded), but in the privacy of the voting booth they voted for Clinton. It remains to be seen if this will show up in the general election, but given the closeness of the polls, even a small occurance of this could be very significant in how accurate the final polls are in predicting the actual outcome of the election.

That's basically the so-called "Bradley Effect". However, recent studies seem to show that the Bradley Effect isn't a statistically relevant issue this year. I think race will play an issue, but as I've argued before the effects will be much more subtle. I don't think conscious racism is going to make the difference anywhere.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This is well put.

Richard Cohen - The Ugly New McCain - washingtonpost.com

whoa - yeah...very well put. even moreso because it was coming a self-professed former media-backer.

[larrymcg421]

Harold Ford actually performed better than the final poll numbers in the 2006 TN senate race, suggesting the Bradley effect may no longer be in place. But I think we'll need to wait and see before letting one election determine that.

[Flasch186]

Stakes high in Palin trooper probe - CNN.com

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (CNN) -- What was once an ugly divorce involving Gov. Sarah Palin's sister is now at the center of a political showdown in Alaska and on the campaign trail.
Gov. Sarah Palin is under fire for allegations that she put pressure on a state official to fire her ex-brother-in-law.

The question: Did Palin, her husband, Todd, or any of her staff put pressure on the state's top cop to fire the governor's ex-brother-in-law, State Trooper Mike Wooten?

An investigator hired by Alaska lawmakers plans to subpoena Palin's husband and several of her staff.

"He's made many comments about how it appeared that DPS [the Department of Public Safety] is not doing its job because of Wooten. He wanted him fired, and I'm hoping that the subpoena, if issued, will permit me to interview him," said investigator Stephen Branchflower.

Now, Republican lawmakers in Alaska argue the investigation has become a political circus. They call it partisan payback. It's already a distraction, if not yet an embarrassment, for the governor. Five state lawmakers have sued to block the investigation.

They said the two Democrats and the former Anchorage prosecutor leading the probe "are unable to hold the balance between vindicating their own political interests and the interests of those who are being investigated."

On Monday, the McCain-Palin campaign announced that Palin will not cooperate with a "tainted" legislative investigation.

Former Palin Press Secretary Meg Stapleton told reporters in Anchorage that the investigation has been "hijacked" by "Obama operatives" for the Democratic presidential nominee -- namely, Alaska state Sen. Hollis French, the Democratic lawmaker managing the investigation and an Obama supporter. French has denied working on behalf of the Obama campaign.

The Obama campaign described Stapleton's charge as "complete paranoia." It has denied sending campaign staff to Alaska to work with the legislative committee's investigation.

So how did the investigation get here?

Claims by Palin and her family that three years ago in the middle of the divorce, Trooper Wooten repeatedly threatened them -- even allegedly threatened to kill her father.

Wooten denies that. Palin conceded her staff expressed concern about Wooten to Walt Monigan, the top cop.

"The state trooper has threatened, you know, to kill my dad," Palin has said.

But she insists as governor she did not pressure anyone to fire Wooten. She told ABC last week her husband had met Monigan but did not pressure him to fire Wooten.

"He did, very appropriately though, bring up those concerns about a trooper who is making threats against the first family and that is appropriate," she said.

Now, the McCain campaign says, Palin "did not learn of these contacts by Todd Palin, until August of this year" even though Todd Palin met Monigan in her office soon after she became governor. Monigan insists he was fired in July because he didn't sack the trooper, though he says he wasn't told directly to fire him.

"I believe I was fired because I did not fire Mike Wooten," Monigan has said.

The McCain campaign is now providing dozens of e-mails that it says show Monigan lost his job for "egregious insubordination."

"This final straw came in late June and early July of this year when Commissioner Monigan arranged for yet another unauthorized trip to Washington, D.C. to request more financial assistance from Congress," said Palin campaign spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton.

Still, even some Republicans in Alaska say Monigan's firing was badly handled and hurt Gov. Palin's credibility. They include a former U.S. attorney who was an informal ethics adviser to the governor.
advertisement

In a letter dated July 24, Welby Shay told Palin he had "grave concern" about the "naive, unprofessional" counsel she'd received in the Monigan case. He declined to speak on camera but told CNN, "If they would have done what I said, I think it would have been over."

A spokeswoman for the governor said that "while we can't always act on every idea, Gov. Palin thanks Mr. Shay for his counsel."

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This is well put.

Richard Cohen - The Ugly New McCain - washingtonpost.com

That's good. McCain is a shadow of his former self. I don't even understand what McCain's stance is on the most recent economic failures. McCain and Palin say we need more regulation one minute and deregulation the next. Obama has retaken the lead and what a difference a week makes.

[Flasch186]

rolling average.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

whoa - yeah...very well put. even moreso because it was coming a self-professed former media-backer.

I'm not sure how that is so well put. Talking about the Lipstick ad and the sex education for kindergarteners ad:
Question: "Wow, those two ads are untrue. They are lies."
Answer: "Actually, they are not lies."
Response: "Actually, they are."

Are the ads lies? They might be misleading...Obama called for age-appropriate sex education of students in K-12, so how is sex education for K a lie?

Someone upthread mentioned that the word "lie" is thrown around way too much, and I am inclined to agree.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

McCain and Palin say we need more regulation one minute and deregulation the next. Obama has retaken the lead and what a difference a week makes.

That's okay, it will change next week when Obama flips on one of his key messages again.

Seriously, have there ever been two campaigns botched this badly in a single presidential election cycle? Or this much flipping by everybody in this short a period of time?

[Arles]

Given Palin appointed Monigan and his role was simply to serve a post "at the pleasure of the governor", couldn't Palin have relieved him from his post one morning because she didn't like the color of his tie? While I certainly see the argument for her not handling all these things in a professional manner, I don't really see a crime (which would be the point in an investigation, correct?).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Arles

Given Palin appointed Monigan and his role was simply to serve a post "at the pleasure of the governor", couldn't Palin have relieved him from his post one morning because she didn't like the color of his tie? While I certainly see the argument for her not handling all these things in a professional manner, I don't really see a crime (which would be the point in an investigation, correct?).

There's a difference between how state governments work and the federal government, so it depends on Alaska state law, which she may or may not have violated, hence the investigation.

For example, there was a battle between Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue and Attorney General Thurbert Baker over a Supreme Court redistricting case. Perdue wanted to drop the case that was initiated under his predecessor, but Baker was able to continue arguing it because the AG is independent from the Governor. Obviously the same thing would not have happened at the federal level.

[SirFozzie]

Actually this would fall under an ethics violation rather then a "Crime" so to speak.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

That's okay, it will change next week when Obama flips on one of his key messages again.

Seriously, have there ever been two campaigns botched this badly in a single presidential election cycle? Or this much flipping by everybody in this short a period of time?

I don't know. A week or two ago we were talking about the doom of the Obama campaign and all the mistakes they were making. Now it's McCain making a gaffe, Fiorina getting banished, apparently McCain invented the blackberry, and we're back where we were a month ago. 538 still has McCain up but there haven't been any state polls today except ARG but ARG sucks. I think CNN will be out with some new ones later today.

[Jas_lov]

And here are the CNN polls:

Florida: Obama 48, McCain 48
Indiana: McCain 51, Obama 45
North Carolina: McCain 48, Obama 47
Ohio: Obama 49, McCain 47
Wisconsin: Obama 50, McCain 47

Not bad for Obama. I liked this Obama line today- "The old boys network? In the McCain campaign that's called a staff meeting." What a difference a week makes.

[larrymcg421]

nvm, beat to it.

The Wisconsin poll is not very good, but the rest of them are very nice for Obama.

[larrymcg421]

"Two years ago, I warned that the oversight of Fannie and Freddie was terrible, that we were facing a crisis because of it, or certainly a serious problem."

-- Sen. John McCain, in an interview earlier today, via ABC News.

"So, I'd like to tell you that I did anticipate it, but I have to give you straight talk, I did not."

-- McCain, in an interview with Keene Sentinel on the mortgage crisis in December 2007.


McCain's straight talk is going in all sorts of different directions.

[ISiddiqui]

Did anyone post the Fox News/Rasmussen poll numbers released yesterday? If not:

Pennsylvania: Obama 47, McCain 47
Ohio: McCain 48, Obama 45
Florida: McCain 49, Obama 44
Virginia: Obama 48, McCain 48
Colorado: McCain 48, Obama 46

[larrymcg421]

Those are a couple days old. Vic mentioned them here.

[Jas_lov]

And those polls look good for McCain. One thing about the CNN polls is that they are for registered voters. I think rasmussen polls likely voters.

http://wiscadproject.wisc.edu/wiscad...ase_091708.pdf

Here's a study of the money being spent by both campaigns for ads if you're interested. Both are putting a lot of cash into ads in Florida and McCain has spent the most for ads in Pennsylvania. Obama has barely spent any on ads in Minnesota. McCain has spent 0 in Montana, North Dakota, and Indiana.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

"Two years ago, I warned that the oversight of Fannie and Freddie was terrible, that we were facing a crisis because of it, or certainly a serious problem."

-- Sen. John McCain, in an interview earlier today, via ABC News.

"So, I'd like to tell you that I did anticipate it, but I have to give you straight talk, I did not."

-- McCain, in an interview with Keene Sentinel on the mortgage crisis in December 2007.


McCain's straight talk is going in all sorts of different directions.

They're completely different situations. The first quote is about the terrible public/private setup regarding the running of Fannie and Freddie - many "free market advocates" have been railing on it for years (including McCain - who's not even that free market). The second is about the sub-prime craziness that came from a combination of Greenspan keeping rates too low too long and some questionable lending risks by mostly private corporations.

I would expect many fairly knowledgeable financial people could see the issues with Fannie and Freddie, but need some 20-20 hindsight to know the full impact of the Greenspan rates and private mortgage risks. McCain was in that camp and actually being honest about it (not just taking credit like most politicians do).

A few pages back I posted McCain's co-sponsored bill back in 2005 that was spiked by the senate democrats to add some oversight to Freddie and Fannie. One has to wonder why the senate democrats were so against the oversight legislation proposed by Hagel and McCain back in 2005 - especially if protecting against corruption was such a major concern. There were clear signs that steps needed to be taken:

As soon as Clinton crony Franklin Raines took the helm in 1999 at Fannie Mae, for example, he used it as his personal piggy bank, looting it for a total of almost $100 million in compensation by the time he left in early 2005 under an ethical cloud.

Other Clinton cronies, including Janet Reno aide Jamie Gorelick, padded their pockets to the tune of another $75 million.

Raines was accused of overstating earnings and shifting losses so he and other senior executives could earn big bonuses.

In the end, Fannie had to pay a record $400 million civil fine for SEC and other violations, while also agreeing as part of a settlement to make changes in its accounting procedures and ways of managing risk.

The Real Culprits In This Meltdown - Yahoo! News

[TazFTW]

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

Oregon, Obama 51 McCain 47. Previous Rasmussen poll (8/07) Obama 47 McCain 37

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

Wisconsin, Obama 48 McCain 46. Previous Rasmussen poll (08/05) Obama 47 McCain 43. (note the Wisconsin trends chart on the right has the newest numbers flipped it reads McCain 48 Obama 46 when it is the other way around)

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

And those polls look good for McCain. One thing about the CNN polls is that they are for registered voters. I think rasmussen polls likely voters.

The CNN/Time polls had Kerry consistently higher in 2004 than most of the other polls, but that might not be the case now.

[lungs]

Democrats need not worry about Wisconsin. We'll cheat if we have to.

[Fidatelo]

All these polls tell me is that this election is far closer than it should be after the last 8 years, and that McCain is likely going to win when the dust settles. Couple that with a likely Harper victory up here and I'm pretty pessimistic about the next 4-5 years.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

All these polls tell me is that this election is far closer than it should be after the last 8 years, and that McCain is likely going to win when the dust settles. Couple that with a likely Harper victory up here and I'm pretty pessimistic about the next 4-5 years.

I hope I'm not threadjacking with a question about the upcoming Canadian election, but I read somewhere that there's a chance the NDP could replace the Liberal party as the 2nd largest party (assuming the Conservatives win the election). Is it really that close between the NDP and the Liberals?

[larrymcg421]

CBS News/NY Times poll just released...

Registered Voters: Obama 48-43
Likely Voters: Obama 49-44

Obama now leads 47-45 among White Females, whereas he was behind 53-34 after the GOP convention.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

McCain 50.7
Obama 48.1

Obama 51.0
McCain 48.6

[Mac Howard]

Isn't it depresssing that even the (scientifically researched?) polls reflect the bias of their paymasters

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Obama 51.0
McCain 48.6

Obama 39.J
McCain -Y^4

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Obama 39.J
McCain -Y^4

I have no idea what this means but it made me lol.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

All these polls tell me is that this election is far closer than it should be after the last 8 years, and that McCain is likely going to win when the dust settles.

It's not "likely" that McCain is going to win, but being in a coin flip at this point is astonishing given that his party's two term incumbent president has the lowest approval rating in history.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have no idea what this means but it made me lol.

I thought my video card was up the wall

[Passacaglia]

You forgot to add: Flasch186 --but then that would invalidate the whole list itself.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You forgot to add: Flasch186 --but then that would invalidate the whole list itself.

I deleted the list because in actuality Mac's statement covers both sides.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I hope I'm not threadjacking with a question about the upcoming Canadian election, but I read somewhere that there's a chance the NDP could replace the Liberal party as the 2nd largest party (assuming the Conservatives win the election). Is it really that close between the NDP and the Liberals?

I haven't seen any polls related to expected number of seats, but I'm positive the popular vote still favors the Liberals over the NDP by a significant margin. I'd also be extremely surprised if the NDP did win more seats, but as I haven't seen any polls, I suppose it could be working out that way. The Liberals are in disarray right now, and the NDP have a strong, well-known leader in Layton.

So far the Canadian election has been flying somewhat under the radar, which is exactly what Harper wants. Although, I'm a little bit under-informed at the moment because I was too busy over the last week to really read the newspaper, and when that happens I tend to get all of my news from the internet sites I visit, which tend to be American. So I might be the wrong guy to ask right now.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

It's not "likely" that McCain is going to win, but being in a coin flip at this point is astonishing given that his party's two term incumbent president has the lowest approval rating in history.

As a number of my non-american friends have pointed out what this really shows is how many stupid Americans there are. Which I agree appears to be the case at this point. (No personal slight intended BTW)

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Galaril

As a number of my non-american friends have pointed out what this really shows is how many stupid Americans there are. Which I agree appears to be the case at this point. (No personal slight intended BTW)

Or how poorly the Democrats are running ANOTHER campaign. This should seriously have been a slam dunk, but when Obama keeps hemming and hawing on everything he said during the nomination campaign, it gets folks wondering if he really IS a change candidated and if he really CAN be trusted. I think his image is tarnishing fast, which is just sending folks back to the old standby of voting party.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by Galaril

As a number of my non-american friends have pointed out what this really shows is how many stupid Americans there are. Which I agree appears to be the case at this point. (No personal slight intended BTW)

I'm disappointed that your reaction was one of agreement, because I believe I would have told my non-American friends to go fuck themselves.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Galaril

As a number of my non-american friends have pointed out what this really shows is how many stupid Americans there are. Which I agree appears to be the case at this point. (No personal slight intended BTW)

I would never dare say that

A few years ago Australia held a referendum on whether it should become a republic (currently it still has constitutional links with Britain). One of the debating points was how the president would be elected. Part of the "anti" campaign was "there's no way we want anything like the US presidential election". It wasn't the only argument against but it certainly helped defeat the referendum.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

As a number of my american friends have pointed out what this really shows is how many stupid Americans there are. Which I agree appears to be the case at this point. (No personal slight intended BTW)

there are a lot of stupid people in this country (on both sides)

[cartman]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I'm disappointed that your reaction was one of agreement, because I believe I would have told my non-American friends to go fuck themselves.

A nice continuation of Bush's policies...

[Flasch186]

GOP senator: A 'stretch' to say Palin is qualified - Yahoo! News

GOP senator: A 'stretch' to say Palin is qualified

32 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Nebraska Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel said his party's vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, lacks foreign policy

"She doesn't have any foreign policy credentials," Hagel said in an interview published Thursday by the Omaha World-Herald. "You get a passport for the first time in your life last year? I mean, I don't know what you can say. You can't say anything."

Could Palin lead the country if GOP presidential nominee John McCain could not?

"I think it's a stretch to, in any way, to say that she's got the experience to be president of the United States," Hagel said.

McCain and other Republicans have defended Palin's qualifications, citing Alaska's proximity to Russia. Palin told ABC News, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."

Hagel took issue with that argument. "I think they ought to be just honest about it and stop the nonsense about, 'I look out my window and I see Russia and so therefore I know something about Russia,'" he said. "That kind of thing is insulting to the American people."

Hagel, a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has been a vocal critic of the Bush administration since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

In July, Hagel traveled to Iraq and Afghanistan with Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. Though he didn't expect to be asked, Hagel had said he would have considered serving as Obama's running mate.

Palin was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, population 6,500, before becoming Alaska's governor in December 2006.

Palin visited soldiers in Kuwait and Germany last year and said in an interview with ABC News that her only other foreign travel had been to Mexico and Canada. She also said she had never met a foreign head of state.

Hagel told the newspaper that other governors have been elected to serve in the White House without experience in Washington. He said judgment and character were also important for the job.

"But I do think in a world that is so complicated, so interconnected and so combustible, you really got to have some people in charge that have some sense of the bigger scope of the world," Hagel said. "I think that's just a requirement."

see if I can parse through articles I post to highlight which side the argument might be for. It's at least a little more fun for me.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's pretty cool flaschy.

wow - won't say i'm "surprised" that the GOP senior-senators are turning on her, but that's...interesting at least