Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

at least he didnt pedigree Bryan...... yet. you know his ego is itching to pedigree someone

Brad Maddox doesn't count? I think the best outcome is that Cena/Bryan plays out normally, then Orton cashes in the MitB briefcase and HHH pedigrees him and prevents him from winning the title. Then those 2 can go feud for the next few months and everyone can fast forward when they're on screen. It would be nice to have someone cash in a MitB briefcase and not win the title for once (although I would rather have the Shield or the Wyatt's be the ones preventing the cash-in, but that's unlikely.)

I did also think it was weird they didn't end with Bryan/Cena as the final segment... Punk/Heyman/Lesnar has been a much better build-up, and Lesnar even cut a good promo for it, but last night seemed to be the weakest Punk/Heyman segment they've done yet, and Bryan/Cena are the headliners and all. (Or I guess co-headliners in WWE's eyes with HHH and the stars of Total Divas.)

[murrayyyyy]

Funny enough to post here.

The Rock Personalized Promo Generator

IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLLALALALALALALAOOOOO

[miami_fan]

WWE Superstar Darren Young Comes Out -- I'm Gay | TMZ.com

Shoot or No shoot?

[molson]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

WWE Superstar Darren Young Comes Out -- I'm Gay | TMZ.com

Shoot or No shoot?

I'm guessing it's a shoot that he's gay, but that he was heavily encouraged by corporate to make the announcement in this time and place with TMZ.

[murrayyyyy]

I'd probably guess not a work since Cena gave his reaction and has a gay brother also. I know Cena is a company mouthpiece but it sounds like he knew already. He gave the standard answer (about there being an openly known gay wrestler) until he was told Darren came out and then went on and on about it being okay.

John Cena -- Proud of Darren Young ... Congrats on Being 1st Gay WWE Star | TMZ.com

[molson]

I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been more guys come out in wresting. In some ways the WWE seems ahead of the major sports leagues in gay acceptance - Pat Patterson has been out for decades and he was a near-the-top-of-the-card wrestler and then the #2 guy behind the scenes for years. Orlando Jordan was out as a bisexual, but nobody really cared. There's always been rumors about a handful of other guys, but they weren't "hateful" rumors, it was just like, "everybody knows about this guy and it's no big deal, it's just not public".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Orlando Jordan was out as a bisexual, but nobody really cared.

That bolded part kinda sums up his career, not just his sexuality.

[IlliniCub]

Who could forget the epic Ultimate Warrior vs Orlando Jordan match?

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That bolded part kinda sums up his career, not just his sexuality.

True, Orlando Jordan could have come out as pro wrestling's first transvestite communist serial killer and nobody would have cared. He just had that way about him.

[RainMaker]

SummerSlam was really good. Every match was good except the Kane-Wyatt one. Bryan and Punk can make any match great.

[Toddzilla]

I hope Danielson is happy because they are just BURYING him

[Mota]

They also made him the focal point of the company and is working with the McMahons, it can't be all that bad.

[Matthean]

He's as good of a technical wrestler as anybody they got and can get over just as equally as well outside of maybe Punk. He won't stay buried for long.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I hope Danielson is happy because they are just BURYING him

He's the top babyface in the company chasing after the title for the rest of the year in a huge storyline featuring the McMahons. I think he's the opposite of being buried.

[Mota]

Yes and we can't forget that Cena is gone for the next few months, so they actually have to use either Bryan or Punk as the #1 legit babyface instead of the lip service version where we all know that no matter what they do it's actually Cena that's #1.

[RainMaker]

Cena isn't even a face anymore. Guy has been booed out of the arena almost every night.

[SirFozzie]

Goldberg was at the Marlins new ballpark for Legends of Pro Wrestling night, where he threw out the first pitch, and then the first SPEAR!

[molson]

The Hart Foundation was at that game too. Now, can anyone explain what drug and/or medical affliction would cause someone to do whatever Jim Neidhart is doing in this video? Apparently there's other recent videos with Neidhart out there where he looks and talks normal, so it doesn't appear to be Parkinson's or any long-term thing. It's kind of weird that MLB would have this on their website.

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=...ic_id=21753540

[Matthean]

Speaking of Bret Hart, I think this rang rather true for me.

Q: Did I just hear on your podcast that you were "never a fan of" Bret Hart? As a lifelong follower of the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be, I'd appreciate an explanation.
—Dennis, Philadelphia

SG: Let's see … no personality, no sense of humor, wet hair, horrible entrance music, hideous wrestling outfit (pink and black?), never tweaked his gimmick, didn't get along with Shawn Michaels, "carried" the WWE during its most boring stretch of the past 40 years, sold out for WCW money, remains memorable only because of (a) the Montreal Screwjob (and the fact that he punched Vince McMahon afterward), and (b) his phenomenal Ewing Theory credentials (the WWE took off again right after he left). Just thought he was overrated.

Quick tangent: In our aforementioned podcast last week, Wesley Morris mentioned his "market corrections" theory and how, sometimes, there can be only one "type" of successful lane for one actor (only with multiple actors vying for it). An example he liked: Mark Harmon never making it as a leading movie actor because Kevin Costner took all of those marquee roles that could have gone to Harmon from 1988 through 1995. Costner was Harmon's market-correction guy, the guy blocking Harmon from having a Costner-like career.

Same for Tom Hanks and Michael Keaton — they battled for seven years for "funny/likable comic actor who dabbles in serious roles and will eventually become an A-lister" supremacy, with Keaton gaining an early A-list upper hand in 1989 thanks to the Batman movies. What happened to Hanks? Total tailspin! That was his Joe Versus the Volcano/Bonfire of the Vanities stretch — three years of forgettable movies. When Hanks rallied back in 1992 with A League of Their Own, then Sleepless in Seattle, Philadelphia (Oscar) and Forrest Gump (Oscar), what happened to Keaton? TAILSPIN! As Wesley says, there could be only one.

Back to Bret Hart: His market-correction guy was "Mr. Perfect," Curt Hennig, another technically terrific wrestler who hit the WWE in the mid-1980s. I always loved the arrogant "Mr. Perfect" gimmick and thought Hennig was more interesting and entertaining than Hart, but Hart's extended wrestling family (brother Owen, brothers-in-law Jim Neidhart and British Bulldog) morphed into the Hart Foundation family, which stole good spots in every pay-per-view. With the Hitman leading the way, of course. So Hennig ended up being the Keaton to Hitman's Hanks — he never won the WWE title and eventually jumped to WCW. So not only did Bret Hart semi-bore the hell out of us in dozens of pay-per-views, he drove away his more entertaining market-correction guy. I don't hate him for it. Just can't call myself a Hitman fan. Wait, did we just spend four paragraphs on this?

[molson]

Ya, there's been some great wrestling content on Grantland lately. Simmons sat ringside at Summerslam and did about 30 minutes on his podcast on it, other Grantland people did a full pre-summerslam podcast, and this great interview with HHH:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ficer-triple-h

[Suicane75]

Simmons has no idea what he's talking about. His timelines don't even match up.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by molson

The Hart Foundation was at that game too. Now, can anyone explain what drug and/or medical affliction would cause someone to do whatever Jim Neidhart is doing in this video? Apparently there's other recent videos with Neidhart out there where he looks and talks normal, so it doesn't appear to be Parkinson's or any long-term thing. It's kind of weird that MLB would have this on their website.

Video: COL@MIA: Hart Foundation, Goldberg at Marlins Park | MLB.com

That looks like Tourretts to me

[Mota]

Wow, they sure made Big Show, Dolph Ziggler and Miz look like a bunch of wimps in about 3 seconds. Because when the good guys are scared of their boss, that really endears them to the fans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Am I reading my Twitter right? It was an ROH main event, Tyler Black vs AmDrag?

If so, that's actually pretty f'n cool I think.

[RainMaker]

Yes it was. Finish was great too although WWE cameras missed it because they thought cutaways to the crowd were more important. Rollins can really sell.

DBryan top rope German suplex on Rollins - YouTube

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, there's been some great wrestling content on Grantland lately. Simmons sat ringside at Summerslam and did about 30 minutes on his podcast on it, other Grantland people did a full pre-summerslam podcast, and this great interview with HHH

There's also a hockey guy on there who works random wrestling references into pretty much everything he writes.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

There's also a hockey guy on there who works random wrestling references into pretty much everything he writes.

I find his stuff to be derivative and boring.
...
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...
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...
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JUST KIDDING!!!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Am I reading my Twitter right? It was an ROH main event, Tyler Black vs AmDrag?

If so, that's actually pretty f'n cool I think.

I don't know if anyone here watches NXT or gets Hulu Plus, but they had a 2 out of 3 falls match last week between Antonio Cesaro and Sami Zayn (a.k.a. Claudio Castignoli vs. El Generico) that was unbelievable. For as much grief as I gave HHH for his on-camera appearances before fully embracing the heel role, he's done great things for developmental, bringing in a bunch of top indy guys and giving non-superstars a place to introduce new gimmicks/work on existing ones away from prime-time television.

[Ajaxab]

The AJ Lee monologue after the 6 person Divas match on Monday night was pretty fascinating. She ripped the Bellas, the Funkadactyls, Jo Jo and Eva Marie for appearing on E!'s new reality series Total Divas. AJ has not yet been on the show. That kind of insult would be pretty standard fare, but Total Divas purports to give something of a behind the scenes glimpse into the 'real' lives of these women. They use their real names and address others by their real names (e.g. Daniel Bryan is addressed as Bryan Danielson). The show follows them as they deal with real world problems like absent fathers and interpersonal relationships. Of course, reality tv is never entirely real, but Total Divas presents itself as such and at the very least implies a connection between what we see and these women's real lives.

So, with all that, was AJ's monologue a step too far? Was it actually a shot at the real life problems some of these women are dealing with? Some people suggest she went off script and crossed some lines. Or is Total Divas a completely new way of creating an angle outside Raw and Smackdown, something AJ can use as ammo to further a feud when the women appear on WWE programming proper?

No matter the answer, it was a pretty brilliant piece of promotion...

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I find his stuff to be derivative and boring.

I too find his stuff to be derivative and boring.

[molson]

Some follow up to the Sunny "fan experience" I posted about a page or two ago. This just makes me uncomfortable.

Marked Out • View topic - A Sunny Day

Tammy Sytch aka Sunny - Fan Wrestling Promo - September 7th, 2013 - YouTube

[Toddzilla]

Mumbling idiot

[Flasch186]

yes.... keepin' it classy.

[Mota]

I was at Raw on Monday and it was a ton of fun. I think the overall show was pretty weak and there a lot of gaps where you're just waiting for commercials to be over, but the energy was amazing, so many chants from the crowd. When the WWE was putting effort into the show, the chants were on track and what they'd hope for. When they'd trot out R-Truth or The Miz, the crowd gave the WWE what they deserved as they would entertain themselves.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jim Ross retires from the WWE effective immediately, amidst speculation about how much was voluntary & how much he was pushed out due to fallout over the 2k14 event.

J.R.'s own comments are at his blog
Retirement Thoughts | J.R.'s Family Bar-B-Q

[CU Tiger]

2k14 event?
What have I missed?

Always liked JR

[Matthean]

Promoting the WWE 2K14 game. I guess Flair went off the mark and McMahon wasn't too fond of Jim not controlling the interview better.

Ric Flair talks WWE 2K14 Symposium controversy: They told me to entertain 'em and I did - Cageside Seats

[cartman]

Just saw on Facebook that the Von Erich family is in the process of creating a documentary about their family's wrestling history.

https://www.facebook.com/VonErichsTheMovie

[JonInMiddleGA]

I know he's just playing the heel & all, however, this made me LOL (as TNA desperately retweeted ever post they could find trying to hype Kenny King vs Austin Aries match on Impact)

Somewhere Rhett Titus is sitting on the edge of his seat... #IMPACTLIVE

— Christopher Daniels (@facdaniels) September 27, 2013

[Mota]

Yeah Thursday nights are a constant source of spam on my Twitter feed thanks to TNA.

[Toddzilla]

I think the whole Kenny King / Austin Aries segment was a crystal clear example of what is wrong with TNA. Why give the match away? They're decent on the mic so they could have effectively hyped a match down the road. Why put Aries over? King came out to berate Aries, Aries defended himself, then won. So why should anyone care about these two any more?

I was really hoping for an epic KK beatdown on Aries, lots of blood (ironically enough) and a stretcher job. Now Aries is motivated to get revenge on King and you have a program you stretch until BFG.

Preaching to the choir, I know.

[molson]

Great article on the life and final days of Randy Savage:

The Final Days of Randy 'Macho Man' Savage | Bleacher Report

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

Great article on the life and final days of Randy Savage:

The Final Days of Randy 'Macho Man' Savage | Bleacher Report

Great article. Totally engrossed in it.

[RainMaker]

Rhodes Brothers-Shield can feud forever for all I'm concerned. Had two great matches. Way to bring back the tag division.

[bulletsponge]

id rather watch AJ lee talk to her championship belt than watch 2 other "divas" wrestle

[Scarecrow]

Talk about coming out of Left Field....

Who wants to buy TNA????

[Mota]

Well for the first time in 6 years I've pretty much stopped watching wrestling. Being a huge fan of Daniel Bryan it was pretty strange because these past few months are when he was getting his "push". You know, the one where everybody says how bad he is and how he gets beaten up every show, and then never gets his revenge in the end. This is the WWE's way of pushing guys who aren't Cena. You know the "We tried but it didn't work" push that basically sabotages itself. They've basically destroyed all their depth, only having a few true main eventers, and then the gap is HUGE because everybody else is treated like an opening act.

So instead, we get 2007 all over again. Cena, Orton, Big Show. And the ultimate main event is McMahon vs. HHH at Wrestlemania, how original. I almost wished it was all a shoot, because then at least the old guys would get old, and there would be some new blood in. And no matter what the owners think, the best guys will eventually rise to the top.

I haven't really been happy with ANY wrestling lately. TNA has been mediocre, RoH has been forgettable. I've been down on the WWE a lot over the years but there's been other companies that kept me interested. Lately I've been more interested in watching Netflix and catching up on old movies rather than watching Raw from 6 weeks ago that I haven't bothered putting on.

I'm a wrestling fan forever. I just wish they made it easier for me to be one.

[Suicane75]

I think TNA will be sold relatively soon (Though I don't think it'll be Corgan), maybe that will pump some new blood into the whole industry. As long as the names Russo or Bischoff aren't involved.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mota

Well for the first time in 6 years I've pretty much stopped watching wrestling. Being a huge fan of Daniel Bryan it was pretty strange because these past few months are when he was getting his "push". You know, the one where everybody says how bad he is and how he gets beaten up every show, and then never gets his revenge in the end. This is the WWE's way of pushing guys who aren't Cena. You know the "We tried but it didn't work" push that basically sabotages itself. They've basically destroyed all their depth, only having a few true main eventers, and then the gap is HUGE because everybody else is treated like an opening act.

So instead, we get 2007 all over again. Cena, Orton, Big Show. And the ultimate main event is McMahon vs. HHH at Wrestlemania, how original. I almost wished it was all a shoot, because then at least the old guys would get old, and there would be some new blood in. And no matter what the owners think, the best guys will eventually rise to the top.

I agree that their unwillingness to push anyone new as a headliner is brutal right now, but I think the depth is actually phenomenal right now. I mean, you had Wyatt Family (ok, just Bray and Luke Harper are good) vs. Punk/Bryan and a 6-man tag match with Cena/Goldust/Cody Rhodes/Antonio Cesaro/Jack Swagger/Damien Sandow in the 1st half of a free show, and you still have the Shield, Big E, soon Sami Zayn, Dolph Ziggler, ADR, the Usos and a Randy Orton that's actually been killing it in the ring recently - that's a lot of very good wrestlers. The problem is that, like you said, they're completely unwilling to push any one of them into true headliner status, but they've also completely devalued every other belt and they run matchups into the ground. With that many good wrestlers you should be able to mix up some matchups, but instead by the time the PPV comes around we've seen every match 5 different times and it's no longer an event. And I'd even be fine with them blindly rotating around who has the belts every PPV instead of trying to use them to give wrestlers a push as long as they stopped having the "Champions" lose 80% of the no-title fights.

[Mota]

Imagine back when Heyman was rumored to take over creative for TNA? That would have been a big boost when they were still able to get one. I don't see anybody that can rejuvenate that brand right now.

And back to the WWE, one of the examples I was thinking about is Dolph Ziggler. That guy is so talented, and just a few months back people were talking about him as a future world champ. Since then they've put so much effort into devaluing him and making sure we know how badly he sucks. If they put nearly that much effort into telling us how awesome some of the new guys are, they would be in much better shape right now.

I agree about the talent that's there right now, I think there's more talented wrestlers on the roster then they've had in years, but they need to make sure we know these guys are talented, and that this is the future of the company. If they spent all of their time telling us how badly these guys suck compared to HHH, eventually they won't be talent anymore, they'll just be jobbers.