04-12-2016, 03:01 PM | #4601 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Why doesn't this simulation exist on computers yet??? |
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04-12-2016, 03:03 PM | #4602 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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Quote:
Also: "Mississippi ranks near the top among U.S. states in terms of teen births and rates of chlamydia, gonorrhea and HIV. A 2013 survey of Mississippi high school students by the CDC found that 54 percent had had intercourse at least once and that 39 percent of those sexually active did not use a condom the last time they had sex. Given these statistics, the passing in 2011 of House Bill 999, which requires sex education to be taught in all Mississippi public schools for the first time ever, may seem like a big win. But sex education advocates see the bill as a mixed victory, since it mandates abstinence-based sex education in all public schools and limits information about safe sex. Districts can opt to teach “abstinence plus” curriculum, which includes information about contraception, but demonstrating proper condom use with an actual condom is forbidden. Here's just how bad sex education is in Mississippi Also: Despite Legalizing Gay Marriage These States Forbid Teaching About Gay Sex | Mother Jones (yeah i get mother jones, i just liked the graph used, article is commentary, not reporting ) Educators are restricted to teach something legal and relevant and urgent. That sure sounds like limiting free speech to me. And just like college campuses, just because you find the message icky, if it is legal and relevant, limiting it is myopic. |
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04-12-2016, 03:08 PM | #4603 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
They should probably teach things like math and writing in Mississippi too... |
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04-12-2016, 03:17 PM | #4604 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
It's hard to equate a curriculum-setting process with the "shut it down" mentality on college campuses. I'm not going to argue against teaching better sex ed in Mississippi. Shutting down a speech is a First Amendment issue. Elected school boards controlling curriculum in schools where attendance is compulsory is not a First Amendment issue. However, the First Amendment does restrict these school boards from making religious instruction compulsory. |
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04-12-2016, 03:29 PM | #4605 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Not unless it is coming from the Government.
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04-12-2016, 03:55 PM | #4606 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Too bad American history started this year, otherwise we might remember this:
Quote:
You can also find videos of these tactics used at town hall meetings.
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04-12-2016, 04:46 PM | #4607 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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People have a First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. So our government can't stop a rally. Madsen v. Women's Health is a First Amendment case which establishes that the government can issue an injunction to restrict protest. There's also an implied requirement to protect that right. If the government fails in that duty, there may be liability. We might see this type of case in the future. It's not established, though. The disgusting behavior of Bull Connor regarding the Freedom Riders in the early '60s was never punished. |
04-12-2016, 05:08 PM | #4608 | |||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
Of course. And no one is saying they should. Quote:
In fact, the court has ruled quite the opposite. The First Amendment (and the rest of the Bill of Rights) protects against Government action. It does not require government action. See Deshaney v. Winnebago. Quote:
That's a terrible example for what you're arguing. Bull Connor was a government official and what he did to the Freedom Riders was government action and clear violation of the First Amendment.
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04-12-2016, 05:35 PM | #4609 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Let's not get too ambitious, here. Quote:
Free speech zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
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04-12-2016, 06:04 PM | #4610 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
While Deshaney v Winnebago is a 14th Amendment case, I think you're right that it might come into play here. I think Bull Connor is a great example. Because he didn't do anything. He didn't necessarily incite anything. What he did was set up a scenario where the KKK knew it had 15 minutes to beat the Freedom Riders. Had Connor stepped in when he and everyone else knew what was going to happen, violence would have been prevented. Yet Connor never faced charges. In this case, inaction was action. So far, we haven't had a case filed on First Amendment grounds based on the government refusing to step in when the right to assemble peaceably is violated. Last edited by Solecismic : 04-12-2016 at 06:05 PM. |
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04-12-2016, 06:31 PM | #4611 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
The 1st Amendment only applies to the states through the 14th Amendment. The reason the 14th Amendment was cited in Deshaney is because a state government was being sued instead of the federal government. Otherwise, it would've been a 5th Amendment case. I'd say the Bull Connor incident definitely qualifies as state action since he didn't just refuse to act, he created the entire situation that allowed the Freedom Riders to be beaten. The reason he wasn't punished has nothing to do with constitutional law and everything to do with the state and time period he lived in.
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04-12-2016, 08:55 PM | #4612 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
Are you arguing that the federal government should send FBI agents to Trump rallies to disperse and arrest protestors on federal charges otherwise it's a violation of Trump's first amendment rights?
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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04-12-2016, 09:43 PM | #4613 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
I'm saying that there's a potential First Amendment case if protestors organize to shut down a peaceable assembly. I'm not making any specific case for specific government resources. |
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04-12-2016, 09:51 PM | #4614 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
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There's crimes like harassment, battery, or trespassing that could apply if someone shuts down someone else's event. But if you shut down an event without doing any of those things - maybe just by putting social pressure on the organizers, or by offering a competing event that the venue prefers, that's speech in it's own right, fair and square.
I do think some public schools are treading towards deep water these days. I saw something today about a student in Maine being bullied because he was wearing a hat which supported Trump, and the school's solution was to tell him he should keep the hat at home (with no similar policy relating to support of other candidates). The school disputed it, and alleged they only "advised" the student not to wear the hat, but I could see a school crossing the line with that or "safe spaces." I went to a very liberal public law school which had a very hostile environment towards students with dissenting opinions. The one student in my class who had open conservative views had his mailbox vandalized and was constantly called out on the school email list. That's not a constitutional problem because the abuse came from other students, but the way a public school responds could be. I don't know if he ever complained to administrators, but the law school experience and seeing all that definitely made me more conservative for a while. But also probably more sympathetic for anyone who was singled out for abuse, no matter the reason. Last edited by molson : 04-12-2016 at 09:55 PM. |
04-13-2016, 05:45 AM | #4615 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
The level of incompetence in the Trump camp is astounding. Take for instance the Washington state debacle. Preparing for the up-coming primary, the campaign sent out emails to their supporters encouraging them to get people registered to vote. The problem was they sent the email to Washington DC supporters, encouraging them to make sure to register by April 5th (the email was sent April 8th). If this was the Apprentice, they'd all be fired. Add that to the fact his kids didn't register in time to vote in New York, and how he didn't even try in Colorado (he actually fired the head of his organization there 3 days before the conventions). It looks like his whole campaign is completely disorganized. And he is going to run the country? |
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04-13-2016, 06:34 AM | #4616 |
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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...and make America grate again.
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04-13-2016, 06:37 AM | #4617 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
I don't understand how this case would work. Trump would sue protestors? Trump would sue the federal government? Even if he found someone to sue, what would be his argument?
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04-13-2016, 06:43 AM | #4618 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Sending out e-mails with old dates is actually a crisis most Americans face today. It's out of control.
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04-13-2016, 08:25 AM | #4619 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Quote:
not having his kids registered to vote still kind of boggles my mind-what did they not vote at all the previous recent years? I would have thought that was high up on the priority list when he decided to run for President-make sure there was nothing that was going to embarrass/humiliate him or his campaign. |
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04-13-2016, 08:26 AM | #4620 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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They're registered to vote, but not registered Republicans, no?
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04-13-2016, 08:29 AM | #4621 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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I think that Trump is now < 50% to win the nomination.
And he would be pretty much a lock had he put competent people in charge of the details of delegate wrangling. He would not have had to dirty his hands with it. He could have just hired a couple of good guys and put them in charge of making sure that votes translated into delegates who would be loyal to Trump after the first ballot. Kind of amazing that he didn't do that. |
04-13-2016, 08:38 AM | #4622 |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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I'm personally leaning towards the rumors that he doesn't actually want to be the nominee and is angling for saying 'he could have been president' if he'd wanted to rather than having to do the job .. (basically he's on a hiding to nothing in the election imho if he is nominated and that would harm his image) Last edited by Marc Vaughan : 04-13-2016 at 08:39 AM. |
04-13-2016, 09:35 AM | #4623 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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At some level, I really hope that the GOP does something stupid and puts another candidate on the ballot other than Trump. There will be a lot of people who will have their eyes opened as to how ridiculous this process is AND we won't have a bunch of the establishment saying "See, here's what happens when we don't nominate a TRUE conservative!". Instead, we'll watch Cruz, Rubio, or Kasich get their butt kicked in the general election and people will become even more annoyed by what happened.
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04-13-2016, 09:51 AM | #4624 |
Head Coach
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04-13-2016, 09:54 AM | #4625 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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I'd have to look it up but I think they were unaffiliated.
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04-13-2016, 09:56 AM | #4626 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Yeah, here it is...
Donald Trump's Kids Eric and Ivanka Miss Deadline to Vote in NY GOP Primary - ABC News Quote:
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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04-13-2016, 10:00 AM | #4627 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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thank you for that Ben. did Trump know he was running in October?
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04-13-2016, 10:03 AM | #4628 |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Why is it a big deal if his kids did vote or whom they voted for ... its a democracy, its their choice surely?
I'd love my kids regardless of the soccer team they support so their political affiliations really don't matter to me ... I think its great they're growing up and are confident enough to make their own way in life and I don't expect them to always follow my shadow etc. |
04-13-2016, 10:05 AM | #4629 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Sure, but in fairness, the existence of an October deadline to change affiliations for an April primary could easily catch one by surprise--especially when a new registrant has until a little less than a month before the primary.
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04-13-2016, 10:10 AM | #4630 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC
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Am I the only one who never considered Trump a Republican before all of this? And, well, probably after this as well?
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04-13-2016, 10:12 AM | #4631 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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04-13-2016, 10:13 AM | #4632 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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not at all
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04-13-2016, 10:49 AM | #4633 |
Grizzled Veteran
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Location: Tulsa
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04-13-2016, 10:52 AM | #4634 |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
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They didn't call him Zig Zag Zell for nothin'.
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04-13-2016, 10:59 AM | #4635 |
Head Coach
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Location: NYC
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04-13-2016, 11:03 AM | #4636 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
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Trump was a mainstream TV icon around 2004, and proclaimed many liberal views. This was right around when the Republicans were really into talking about the danger posed by "Liberal Hollywood elites", and I think Trump was one of those liberals. Then he started to get weird when his TV star faded a bit. That culminated in that awkward, cheaply filmed Obama Birther rant.
My best guess is that he leans liberal but doesn't really care that much. He's happy to be a liberal if it helped him be a TV star, he's happy to be a conservative if it gets him closer to the presidency. Last edited by molson : 04-13-2016 at 11:05 AM. |
04-13-2016, 04:05 PM | #4637 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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But Trump is not worthless, we can believe everything he says, he is an outsider!
Last edited by Warhammer : 04-13-2016 at 04:06 PM. |
04-13-2016, 04:15 PM | #4638 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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It's the Donald's world, and we should just be thankful to be part of it. In his mind, he's a Republican, therefore we should be thankful to grace him with our votes.
I'm not sure what a Republican is. All I know is that out of the 22 candidates who declared for the two major parties, I didn't feel inspired to vote for any of them. Still don't. But Cruz probably bothers me more than Trump does. Because Cruz knows what he's doing and I have an idea of what he'll try to accomplish as president. Trump is a wild card, eponymously enough. |
04-13-2016, 04:22 PM | #4639 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
In some respects I kind of almost agree with you. It may be suicide to nominate Trump. It's guaranteed suicide if they don't. And, after watching this cycle play out, honestly the death of the GOP as currently constructed might not be a bad thing at all.
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04-13-2016, 04:30 PM | #4640 | |
College Benchwarmer
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Definitely agree with this. It will be worse for them if they deny Trump the nomination when he goes into the convention as the leader.
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04-13-2016, 04:36 PM | #4641 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
The polls say otherwise. Cruz and Kasich perform much better in the general than Trump does.
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04-13-2016, 04:53 PM | #4642 | |
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What, crossover Ds voting for Kasich in that scenario? Cause I can't fathom how any conservative (which the GOP alleges to have) could vote for that worthless SOB. Cruz? I can at least understand it from a candidacy standpoint ... but it's still disappointing that so few are holding him responsible for his inane comments about the "protesters" & Trump. I thought more of GOP voters than that (prior to this cycle anyway), that should have ended his campaign full stop. But if you think performing better equates to anything other than the usual outcome when roughly a quarter to a third of the supposed base stays home, well I just don't know what to say about that.
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04-13-2016, 05:11 PM | #4643 | |
Solecismic Software
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There's not a lot of polling yet. So far, Cruz is only marginally ahead of Trump, and he has areas of the country where he's incredibly unpopular. What happens with Kasich? You have someone who will likely be 1-for-56 in primaries and caucuses. You have someone who hasn't been attacked much, so the negatives will rise. You have someone who isn't strong in the debates and has that weird facial tic that puts people off. In the general, he'd get hit relentlessly on his record in Ohio - there's a scandal with the company that does many charter schools in Ohio that will make him look awful. Who knows what else. Governors have a hard time these days. Hard-core Republicans won't like his medicaid expansion. It's a tough sell. That said, it's probably their only chance in November. Certainly it's the only chance for my vote, not that it matters (though I'll likely be an Ohio resident by then). |
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04-13-2016, 05:12 PM | #4644 |
Torchbearer
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In other words, polls regarding potential match ups are worth about as much as the Vice Presidency.
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04-13-2016, 07:39 PM | #4645 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
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Location: Greensboro, NC
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Speaking of the Vice Presidency, I missed this one...
Trump's Vice President: Rubio, Kasich Are Possible Picks
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04-13-2016, 09:23 PM | #4646 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Well, watched a quick family meeting with the Cruz's on CNN. The family seems very likable.
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04-13-2016, 09:44 PM | #4647 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Cruz/Rubio might get me fired up again...
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04-13-2016, 09:44 PM | #4648 |
Solecismic Software
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04-13-2016, 09:54 PM | #4649 |
"Dutch"
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04-13-2016, 10:22 PM | #4650 |
Solecismic Software
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