The Official NBA 2016 Offseason Thread

[Groundhog]

Rondo to Bulls..........

[wustin]

It was a bargain contract, can't complain.

[Groundhog]

Whenever Austin has the ball, I have zero idea if he's going to knock down a 3, dribble the ball off his foot, or blow a layup. He's basically a shorter Lance Stephenson.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by wustin

It was a bargain contract, can't complain.

Yet I bet they end up doing exactly that.

[The Jackal]

Wall / Beal / Porter / Markieff / Mahinmi or Gortat

Burke / Satoransky / Oubre / Nicholson / Mahinmi or Gortat

The Wizards actually have a decent looking bench!

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Whenever Austin has the ball, I have zero idea if he's going to knock down a 3, dribble the ball off his foot, or blow a layup. He's basically a shorter Lance Stephenson.

Played very well after the all-star break. Shot over 40% from 3.

You have to remember he's only 23 and he was the 2nd ranked recruit in his recruiting class only behind Anthony Davis. Potential is still there hopefully. I'm trying to justify his contract but I agree that a lot of it had to do with his dad.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Wall / Beal / Porter / Markieff / Mahinmi or Gortat

Burke / Satoransky / Oubre / Nicholson / Mahinmi or Gortat

The Wizards actually have a decent looking bench!

Mahinmi is like 29-30 years old, never averaged double figure scoring in his career and they gave him a 4-year deal. I would be pissed if I was Wall.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I asked that exact same question earlier today.

I suspect he might actually be the most anonymous of all the guys who got paid this off season so far.

Solomon Hill was my wtf guys. The Pacers declined his 4th year at 2.3M and he got 12mil.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wustin

Mahinmi is like 29-30 years old, never averaged double figure scoring in his career and they gave him a 4-year deal. I would be pissed if I was Wall.

Wall should be pissed at his agent for no opt out.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm not arguing there's a ton of D-league guys who could step in and be a good role player on a contender, I'm saying Austin Rivers isn't one either. No other team in the league wanted him when he was on an ELC, the Celtics would've released him if GM Doc didn't cough up an asset (that could be used to get a guy like Demetrius Jackson and see if you can find a good role player on a dirt cheap deal), and I very much doubt there was any team willing to give him a bigger offer sheet. GM Doc gave up top much in that trade for him, and now he's paying him too much money, and we all know it's connected to their relationship. He should be an 11th/12th man who ends up in a rotation when injuries happen, not your 7th/8th guy making 11% of the cap.

Hyperbole City Football Club.

Austin Rivers went to Duke. He was a lottery pick. Dude put up 32 on the Thunder this year and had a few 20+ point nights. I'm not saying dude is the truth, but he had meetings with three other teams before deciding to go back to LA. He wasn't going to start anywhere good, so might as well hang out on the bench of a team with a shot to make noise.

But to hear you tell it, dude is a 15th man who went to Stony Brook and he's lucky to be in the NBA at all.

He has an ugly shot. But what the hell else were they going to get to replace him with his age and skill level that they already know and who is already integrated into that locker room. Besides, Doc and Austin don't have the typical dad/son relationship anyway because Doc was always away when he was growing up, so it's very much basketball.

[whomario]

Cole Aldrich to the Wolves for 22/3 , thats downright sensible ... i liked him whenever i saw him the last 2 seasons, Advanced stats and per36 are good.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

Cole Aldrich to the Wolves for 22/3 , thats downright sensible ... i liked him whenever i saw him the last 2 seasons, Advanced stats and per36 are good.

Aldrich was a terrific role player last year for the Clips, and was more than serviceable when called upon to start.

[Groundhog]

There used to be a real good reason why the top non-NBA Americans chose to remain in Europe over trying again and again to stick in the NBA via the summer league and/or NBDL..... $$$. They make 2 or 3 times the min-sal, so it doesn't make a lot of financial sense to pass up on that money to try yet again for an NBA spot. With the EU contracts starting to dry up a little over the past couple of years and the increase in salaries in the NBA, that seems to be changing, so it boggles my mind a little bit that money is getting thrown at fringe NBA talent over guys with experience and ability.

Especially contending teams, why wouldn't you throw cash at a 28 year old vet in the Spanish league? All it takes is a few million a year, and he'll do more for you over the next season or two than a lot of the guys who are suddenly earning around 10 mil a year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Especially contending teams, why wouldn't you throw cash at a 28 year old vet in the Spanish league? All it takes is a few million a year, and he'll do more for you over the next season or two than a lot of the guys who are suddenly earning around 10 mil a year.

You mean like this?

A person familiar with the negotiations tells The Associated Press that guard Malcolm Delaney, a Euroleague star, has agreed to a $1.49 million, two-year contract offer from the Atlanta Hawks.
The person spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity Sunday because no NBA deal can be finalized before Thursday. The deal is guaranteed.
The 6-foot-3 Delaney, from Virginia Tech, was an all-Euroleague All-Star in his second season playing for the Russian team Lokomotiv Kuban.

[Zinto]

KD to the Warriors. And I guess I will see you guys next June.

[murrayyyyy]

league fucked?

Didn't think he'd really do it.

[Young Drachma]

WOOOOOOOOO

Can't wait for these shenanigans. It's the best of everything. The drama of him leaving OKC. The Warriors video game team.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/kev...-announcement/

The primary mandate I had for myself in making this decision was to have it based on the potential for my growth as a player — as that has always steered me in the right direction. But I am also at a point in my life where it is of equal importance to find an opportunity that encourages my evolution as a man: moving out of my comfort zone to a new city and community which offers the greatest potential for my contribution and personal growth. With this in mind, I have decided that I am going to join the Golden State Warriors.

[Shkspr]

Meh. Overrated. He won't even improve their regular season victory total by ten wins.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I like Tyler Johnson based on what I've seen of him before his injury. Athletic, OK handles (but more of a combo guard), and a decent jumper. Only 24, so his money makes more sense to me than some of the others.

Yep, and Austin Rivers is even younger and getting paid slightly less (and more importantly isn't on a poison pill contract that pays him $18-19 million a season 2 years from now).

I'd rather pay him than Austin Rivers, anyway, who has 1 or 2 games a season where he catches fire from deep and seems to make some folks forget all the other times he plays out of control and can't hit the side of the barn.

Games with 2 or more three pointers made, 2015-16:

Tyler Johnson - 8 of 36

Austin Rivers - 15 of 67 (12 of the 39 games Rivers played after Blake Griffin's injury)

You probably didn't watch many Clippers games once Blake Griffin was injured, which is okay because they weren't all that fun, but during that time you missed Austin Rivers playing pretty decently.

[nol]

dola, guess Boston or somebody can start to put together a trade package for Westbrook.

and this is going to be dredged up quite often.

Now everybody wanna play for the heat and the Lakers? Let's go back to being competitive and going at these peoples!

— Kevin Durant (@KDTrey5) July 16, 2010

[CU Tiger]

Westbrook to Cleveland?
Lol

[whomario]

Seriously, if they basically upgrade from Barnes to Durant, wow ...

I kinda wanna see Westbrook drag this bunch to the Playoffs kicking and screaming while putting up godly raw numbers on an astounding number of FGAs and TOs. I mean, we saw an enticing Preview of this but over a full season ? Tell me you wouldnt be entertained ...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Hyperbole City Football Club.

Austin Rivers went to Duke. He was a lottery pick. Dude put up 32 on the Thunder this year and had a few 20+ point nights. I'm not saying dude is the truth, but he had meetings with three other teams before deciding to go back to LA. He wasn't going to start anywhere good, so might as well hang out on the bench of a team with a shot to make noise.

But to hear you tell it, dude is a 15th man who went to Stony Brook and he's lucky to be in the NBA at all.

He has an ugly shot. But what the hell else were they going to get to replace him with his age and skill level that they already know and who is already integrated into that locker room. Besides, Doc and Austin don't have the typical dad/son relationship anyway because Doc was always away when he was growing up, so it's very much basketball.

I didn't realize we had multiple Austin Rivers stans. "He went to Duke" "was a lottery pick" "the #2 HS recruit"... he's been in the NBA for 4 seasons. Like any guard who shoots a lot he's had a couple great games, but he shoots 33% from 3, 64% on FT's, & 41% on FG's (though yes that has improved last 2 seasons, although I'd say that has more to do with the Clips spacing than anything).

If you watched Clippers games and thought he was better than Jamal Crawford idk what to say. But they offered him more $$$ than Crawford instead of even waiting to see if a team put an offer on him they had the rights to match. And I don't care about their ages because the Clippers are in win now mode.

Doc's a pretty good coach, and a terrible GM, and the Clippers have probably missed their chance to win a championship because they have a shitty bench surrounding 3.5 elite players. Picking Austin Rivers over Jamal Crawford and paying him >10% of the cap, especially this early when they had matching rights, isn't going to help that.

But in the important NBA news, wow. Of course GS will drop a couple games when 3's aren't falling, but you simply don't have a chance as an opponent if their shots are falling. The Steph Curry/Draymond P&R has been the best offensive set in the NBA the last 2 years, and now you can replace Draymond with KD?!? (Although, like in OKC, it still probably makes more sense to throw one of KD/Steph on the wing by themselves so there's zero help defense on a whole half of the court.)

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Meh. Overrated. He won't even improve their regular season victory total by ten wins.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Meh. Overrated. He won't even improve their regular season victory total by ten wins.

83 and -1. Ditka will find a way.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I didn't realize we had multiple Austin Rivers stans. "He went to Duke" "was a lottery pick" "the #2 HS recruit"... he's been in the NBA for 4 seasons. Like any guard who shoots a lot he's had a couple great games, but he shoots 33% from 3, 64% on FT's, & 41% on FG's (though yes that has improved last 2 seasons, although I'd say that has more to do with the Clips spacing than anything).

If you watched Clippers games and thought he was better than Jamal Crawford idk what to say. But they offered him more $$$ than Crawford instead of even waiting to see if a team put an offer on him they had the rights to match. And I don't care about their ages because the Clippers are in win now mode.

Doc's a pretty good coach, and a terrible GM, and the Clippers have probably missed their chance to win a championship because they have a shitty bench surrounding 3.5 elite players. Picking Austin Rivers over Jamal Crawford and paying him >10% of the cap, especially this early when they had matching rights, isn't going to help that.

But in the important NBA news, wow. Of course GS will drop a couple games when 3's aren't falling, but you simply don't have a chance as an opponent if their shots are falling. The Steph Curry/Draymond P&R has been the best offensive set in the NBA the last 2 years, and now you can replace Draymond with KD?!? (Although, like in OKC, it still probably makes more sense to throw one of KD/Steph on the wing by themselves so there's zero help defense on a whole half of the court.)

Crawford just re-signed for 3/$42 you idiot. (Still don't like the Rivers timing or numbers.)

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

If you watched Clippers games and thought he was better than Jamal Crawford idk what to say.

Oooh, swing and a miss.



And that's before considering that Rivers always has to guard the better player when he's on the court at the same time as Crawford or that when you are giving a contract to a player based on what he will do 2 or more years in the future, the 25-year-old will be much better than the 37-year-old.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Westbrook to Cleveland?
Lol

They changed team colors to purple and yellow?

[stevew]

Really good move for Durant.

[MrBug708]

@mccoveychron
My only regret is that while I'm ridiculously happy, I know that I'll never be as happy as a Sonics fan right now.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

Oooh, swing and a miss.



And that's before considering that Rivers always has to guard the better player when he's on the court at the same time as Crawford or that when you are giving a contract to a player based on what he will do 2 or more years in the future, the 25-year-old will be much better than the 37-year-old.

That's why Crawford's making more $$$, right?

[stevew]

How long til the Thunder relocate to Las Vegas?

Obvious hyperbole.

Shout out to all the Sonics fans, you guys can troll as much as possible for the next 72 hours.

[jbergey22]

Would have liked to see Durant lead the Celtics or a team on the rise to the Championship but its his choice. Going to love to see Westbook and the numbers he will put up now on OKC.

This changes very little for the Warriors. With or without Durant they were a lock 1 or 2 seed in the west with a high probability of reaching the finals. They weakened one of their top rivals and gave themselves an additional weapon for the conference finals/NBA finals. Still going to come down to if the Warriors can beat Spurs and Cavs when it matters most.

[stevew]

What's Boston's package for Westbrook? Gotta start with a ton of firsts and Smart and?

[MrBug708]

About time for Russell to come home

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by stevew

How long til the Thunder relocate to Las Vegas?

Obvious hyperbole.

Shout out to all the Sonics fans, you guys can troll as much as possible for the next 72 hours.

Well that college atmosphere in Chesapeake will have that college talent level in about 2 years.

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

That's why Crawford's making more $$$, right?

That's what I would call a much worse deal augmented by Crawford's multiple times winning the "bench player with the highest points per game" award. The whole point of this was that apparently Austin Rivers, a mediocre bench player who got paid in the $10-15 million range like a litany of other mediocre bench players, was not only an overpay but such a massive overpay that it immediately makes all other contracts signed look wise by comparison.

There are always contracts that end up being such dead weight that teams have to offer a first-round pick just to get another team to take that contract off their hands. Anderson Varejao, Javale McGee, Jason Thompson, and Carl Landry are recent examples. If I'm ranking every contract by how likely it is to end up that bad, Austin Rivers' is pretty far down that list, not number one with a bullet.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I didn't realize we had multiple Austin Rivers stans. "He went to Duke" "was a lottery pick" "the #2 HS recruit"... he's been in the NBA for 4 seasons.

And you'll notice I said nothing of the sort. He was drafted too high at #10 and was horrible his first few seasons in the league. That has as little bearing on the player he is today as his high school accolades. Is Tyler Johnson that much better because when he was 20-21 years old, he was being an average player at Fresno State and making 0 dollars rather than being one of the worst players in the NBA like Austin Rivers was? There were plenty of red flags in Austin Rivers' college stats that indicated he wouldn't be a star player in the NBA, but his freshman season at Duke was still better than Johnson's first 2-3 seasons at Fresno State.

[Zinto]

And now Woj is reporting that Duncan is leaning towards retiring.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Zinto

KD to the Warriors. And I guess I will see you guys next June.

wow

[nol]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

About time for Russell to come home

Westbrook for D'Angelo Russell and a couple future first rounders would make sense for both teams if the Lakers hadn't already traded so many away.

I'm almost of the mind that Minnesota should offer whatever they were offering for Butler and then some for Westbrook.

Tim Duncan seems as though he will in fact retire

[murrayyyyy]

Okay, so the Warriors have to trade Bogut now.

Why the hell would anyone help them? What if everyone froze out the Dubs, would KD have to sign for less or would he have to pull a Deandre?

[Vince, Pt. II]

This...is insanity.

[nol]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You mean like this?

Yeah, that and now the Sixers signing Rudy Fernandez to a one-year deal are pretty good examples. If the Sixers are trying to make Ben Simmons their point forward, as they should, Fernandez is even better than Bayless. Now, you could argue that the Sixers are looking to be a mediocre team next year that won't be able to add another star player who could really make them a contender, but between the Lakers' pick and the Kings' pick swap they have a pretty good chance of drafting in the top 3 regardless of how many games they win in '16-17.

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Okay, so the Warriors have to trade Bogut now.

Why the hell would anyone help them? What if everyone froze out the Dubs, would KD have to sign for less or would he have to pull a Deandre?

Yep, exactly. I mean at some point, it's enough of a prisoners' dilemma that some team simply cannot refuse the offer of "we'll give you a pretty decent starting center who's making 2/3rds of what Mozgov makes AND next year's first-round pick for nothing" because it's not like many teams were coming close to the Warriors without Durant and at some point it's just free stuff to make your team much better. You certainly couldn't find a center better than Bogut who will cost less than $18 million next year.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by nol

Oooh, swing and a miss.



And that's before considering that Rivers always has to guard the better player when he's on the court at the same time as Crawford or that when you are giving a contract to a player based on what he will do 2 or more years in the future, the 25-year-old will be much better than the 37-year-old.

Crawford wasn't good last season and still beat him out in PER, Win Shares, and RPM. Rivers' improvements were based largely on a spike in shooting (which still rated below average) that likely isn't sustainable based on his 68% free throw shooting. He improved to a win below replacement level last year by Pelton's system and is projected to be slightly over replacement level over the next 3 years. He grades out as average as an on the ball defender and awful in help defense situations. He can't pass the ball, he doesn't handle well, shoot well, or really defend well.

My point was he doesn't have a single skill that isn't easily replaceable. Mozgov at least scores efficiently, offers a bit of rim protection, and is very good in pick and rolls. Mozgov is awful, but does offer real NBA skills.

At least Austin Rivers can rest easy knowing he has a fan base at FOFC.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

Yep, exactly. I mean at some point, it's enough of a prisoners' dilemma that some team simply cannot refuse the offer of "we'll give you a pretty decent starting center who's making 2/3rds of what Mozgov makes AND next year's first-round pick for nothing" because it's not like many teams were coming close to the Warriors without Durant and at some point it's just free stuff to make your team much better. You certainly couldn't find a center better than Bogut who will cost less than $18 million next year.

I've heard Raptors and Mavs all along and it wouldn't shock me if it's Cuban trying to give Dirk one last playoff run with Barnes+Bogut.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, Woj already reporting that the Warriors are close to dealing Bogut to the Mavs.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Crawford wasn't good last season and still beat him out in PER, Win Shares, and RPM.

2 of these 3 stats are essentially worthless for the extent to which they ignore defense beyond steals per game, and even then a difference of .076 to .063 win shares/48 is certainly not even meaningfully different to the point that one could say "if you think player X is better than player Y I don't even know what to say." Kyle Lowry and Draymond Green are just as close to one another in win shares/48 and I certainly wouldn't be able to tell you that one player was definitely better than the other.

But anyway you could have just stopped at 'he projects to be slightly above replacement level the next three years' because that's referring to VORP. If someone has a VORP of 0, that actually means they're an average starter (other players with a VORP between 0 and 0.5 this year include George Hill, Ryan Anderson, Kevin Garnett, Luis Scola, Vince Carter, and Brandon Jennings). This proverbial D-League guy you can sign off the streets is much, much worse than that. The aforementioned Xavier Munford, who was a first-team all D-league player, had a BPM of -3.1 to Rivers' -2.2. That's a pretty big difference, believe it or not.

So at that point, all this grandstanding is based on the fact that you think a 36-year-old player won't decline over the next three years while a 23-year-old player won't get any better. Good luck with that.

[nilodor]

I hope Golden State stays healthy next season. It will be interesting to see what they can do.

It's going to be a really interesting minutes juggle there. I guess you would imagine Curry/Green and Durant/Thompson being the main playing pairs. So you start the game with all 4, at the 6 minute mark bring one set out, then rest those guys at the start of the next quarter. Then finish the half with the big 4 again.

I'm wondering what their big man rotation will look like. Is Speights the only one they have? I guess there are still a fair number of centers available right now so maybe free agent x on a min deal. I'd be worried if they have to play Green at center for too many minutes in the regular season.

[Vince, Pt. II]

They drafted Damian Jones, but Speights is really the only big veteran they still have.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Zinto

And now Woj is reporting that Duncan is leaning towards retiring.

And Gasol apparently signing for the Spurs, giving them at least a prayer at another run.


On the topic of veterans from Europe coming back ...

Sergio Rodriguez to the 76ers on a 1 year, 8 mio deal. Basically seems like an audition-type contract that´s still a financial win for him. Either the 76ers develop and he´s good (then he might sign anew next year), the 76ers still suck but he´s playing good (then he has a foot in the NBA-door again) or of course he´s playing bad (in which case no hard feelings, still gonna get a deal in Europe.

Almost certainly and upgrade to Ish Smith, imo.

Also, and i realize this is he-said-she-said from my (admittedly kinda remote) connections to people inside the european system, there are a ton of people being looked at ... Would not be shocked if there´s quite a few signings on that front later in Free Agency.