NFL Week 17

[Solecismic]

I don't know whether to believe Kluwe's account, though I'm someone who thinks good punting is seriously underrated in the NFL and Kluwe is only an average- punter. They also got average- from their drafted rookie, Locke, at a cheaper price.

A punter is somewhat like an offensive lineman. If you notice him, he's probably doing something you don't want him to do. Unlike an offensive lineman, you can bring in a new guy tomorrow and if he's good, you can use him.

I'd like to think he could still get a tryout.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

What trend are you trying to show here?
Fwiw, I'd be more interested in team stats rather than individual numbers, taking the assumption that indeed these are individual numbers.

Welll, in the 2000s there were 46 4000 yard passers, we are on pace for 88 this decade

In the 2000s there were 34 1500 yard rushers, we are on pace for 18.

The game has changed, and it did happened very quickly. Reminds me of all the 50 HR hitters in baseball starting the in late 90s.

Also, I didn't take out the pre 1980s numbers because I assume that most of the posters on this board (and especially this thread), know that the NFL regular season was 14 games.

[chadritt]

Theres 2 big issues here. First, was he cut because of his views? Even he says thats likely not the entire reason as it made sense for them to move to a rookie. The second question is whether or not he was being harassed and verbally abused by his bosses, in his workplace, due to his views and thats far more likely and something the league is likely concerned with right now.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I don't know whether to believe Kluwe's account, though I'm someone who thinks good punting is seriously underrated in the NFL and Kluwe is only an average- punter. They also got average- from their drafted rookie, Locke, at a cheaper price.

A punter is somewhat like an offensive lineman. If you notice him, he's probably doing something you don't want him to do. Unlike an offensive lineman, you can bring in a new guy tomorrow and if he's good, you can use him.

I'd like to think he could still get a tryout.

He was in raiders camp this preseason and training camp. He got out punted by 2012 undrafted rookie Marquette King and was cut.

[fantom1979]

Taking gay marriage out of the equation (since I think that belongs in another thread), Minnesota and Oakland probably made good decisions to go in another direction at punter.

Kluwe's 2012 Net Punting: 39.7
Locke's 2013 Net Punting: 39.2
King's 2013 Net Punting: 40.1

Kluwe's 2013 Salary If Not Cut By Vikings: $1,450,000
Locke's 2013 Salary: $405,000
King's 2013 Salary: $405,000
2013 min salary for a player in his 8th year: $840,000

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Danny

He was in raiders camp this preseason and training camp. He got out punted by 2012 undrafted rookie Marquette King and was cut.

Chicago Tribune beat writer Brad Biggs had also reported in October that Chris Kluwe was brought in for a tryout with up to 5 other punters.

I am also told Chris Kluwe was part of the #Bears tryout today. May have been up to six punters total.

— Brad Biggs (@BradBiggs) October 1, 2013

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/385125118143262720

[Danny]

I just realized the real reason the texans sucked this year. The curse of the Lechler

[rowech]

Kluwe just tried out for the Bengals as well.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Welll, in the 2000s there were 46 4000 yard passers, we are on pace for 88 this decade

In the 2000s there were 34 1500 yard rushers, we are on pace for 18.

What were the TEAM rushing totals? Yes, the feature back is in decline, but are the teams actually rushing less for fewer yards, or is it the same load spread among multiple players?

[MikeVic]

Sorry if this is discussed somewhere in the thread already, but I was just seeing that a few teams (including the Packers??) are having trouble selling out a playoff game? What the hell? I thought the Packers had a season ticket waiting list for decades or something like that. Is this just a case of it being expensive and cold? Just seems weird.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Sorry if this is discussed somewhere in the thread already, but I was just seeing that a few teams (including the Packers??) are having trouble selling out a playoff game? What the hell? I thought the Packers had a season ticket waiting list for decades or something like that. Is this just a case of it being expensive and cold? Just seems weird.

Yup. Price out most of the hardcore fans and make it a "corporate fans" type event and then end up with bitter cold game days...I don't know many suits who would want to go to a game in that kind of weather.

Whoopsie for the NFL.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yup. Price out most of the hardcore fans and make it a "corporate fans" type event and then end up with bitter cold game days...I don't know many suits who would want to go to a game in that kind of weather.

Whoopsie for the NFL.

Agree completely. Plus I would guess the unsold tickets are likely nose bleed $250 ones. I doubt the hardcore season ticket holders in the lower levels aren't going to the games.

[molson]

I think the NFL is doing OK financially. And you don't necessarily need to be a CEO of a major corporations to splurge a couple hundred dollars to go to a game once in a while. I think the bigger issue is the improvement in how these games are presented on television. Attending the game can actually be a much less immersive experience. Not for me though. I'm hoping this phenomenon extends to Denver and a potential AFC Championship game with the Patriots, because I'd shoot down there for that if I could get tickets at face value.

[EagleFan]

Jeez, still only one game has sold out for the opening week of the playoffs and it sold out in minutes. Guess it shows who the best fans are....

[panerd]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Jeez, still only one game has sold out for the opening week of the playoffs and it sold out in minutes. Guess it shows who the best fans are....

Bengals fans are used to being in the playoffs.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by molson

I think the NFL is doing OK financially. And you don't necessarily need to be a CEO of a major corporations to splurge a couple hundred dollars to go to a game once in a while. I think the bigger issue is the improvement in how these games are presented on television. Attending the game can actually be a much less immersive experience. Not for me though. I'm hoping this phenomenon extends to Denver and a potential AFC Championship game with the Patriots, because I'd shoot down there for that if I could get tickets at face value.

The problem here is blackouts. Blacking out a wildcard game would be awesome.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

I think the NFL is doing OK financially. And you don't necessarily need to be a CEO of a major corporations to splurge a couple hundred dollars to go to a game once in a while. I think the bigger issue is the improvement in how these games are presented on television. Attending the game can actually be a much less immersive experience. Not for me though. I'm hoping this phenomenon extends to Denver and a potential AFC Championship game with the Patriots, because I'd shoot down there for that if I could get tickets at face value.

The upper deck in most NFL stadiums are pretty shitty seats. Not worth hundreds of dollars.

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The problem here is blackouts. Blacking out a wildcard game would be awesome.

That would indeed be awesome, but I doesn't a TV network or local business always pick up any remaining tickets at the last second?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Jeez, still only one game has sold out for the opening week of the playoffs and it sold out in minutes. Guess it shows who the best fans are....

Philly Officers Going Undercover as Saints Fans at Eagles Playoff Game | NBC 10 Philadelphia

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

The upper deck in most NFL stadiums are pretty shitty seats. Not worth hundreds of dollars.

I always find the view up there much better for football than a comparable spot in a baseball or basketball game. Just because of the nature of how things are spread out and take up more space in football. But really, unless you're super close, the view on your TV is going to be better. In order for it to be worth it you have to find value in all the other stuff, the energy of game day, the crowd, etc.

[Logan]

I read that in the case of the Packers, this was due to a change in policy where previously, if you purchased your playoff seats in advance and the Packers didn't make it/got knocked out, you got a check for your refund. But this year, they changed it so that your refund is applied towards your seats for next season (which in fairness, I think most teams do already).

So with that change, and with the Packers seemingly having little chance to make it and Rodgers returning being questionable, a lot of people chose to hang on to their thousands of dollars instead of having it locked up that whole time. Add in the terrible cold expected once those seats went on sale, and there are your open seats.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Jeez, still only one game has sold out for the opening week of the playoffs and it sold out in minutes. Guess it shows who the best fans are....

Those snowballs ain't gonna throw themselves!

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by molson

That would indeed be awesome, but I doesn't a TV network or local business always pick up any remaining tickets at the last second?

Apparently true. In Indy, Irsay tweeted:

Meijer's a superstar in our community. Bought 1200 tix and giving to local
military families. Game on WTHR. BLUE OUT, not black out.

And the Bengals posted:

In an effort to assist in reaching a sellout for local television coverage, the Cincinnati/Dayton Division of Kroger has purchased a large quantity of tickets to Sunday's Bengals playoff game at Paul Brown Stadium.
With the help of local radio stations, WKRQ, WUBE and WREW in Cincinnati and WHKO and WDHT in Dayton, Kroger will distribute the tickets to US Military veterans and Active Duty service members at several store locations in the area. Customers just need to show their Military ID for two FREE tickets to Sunday's game (while supplies last).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Those snowballs ain't gonna throw themselves!

SI

[Patriots12]

I find it extremely unfair that the hometown fans cant watch their favorite team when a playoff game is not sold out. They've been watching their team all year and then in the biggest game to date, they can't watch it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Patriots12

I find it extremely unfair that the hometown fans cant watch their favorite team when a playoff game is not sold out. They've been watching their team all year and then in the biggest game to date, they can't watch it.

They can watch it. In fact, they can watch it live! Better than sitting at home!

Yours in Pigskin,

Roger Goodell

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

They can watch it. In fact, they can watch it live! Better than sitting at home!

Yours in Pigskin,

Roger Goodell

I go to the Bengals At Ravens game about every other year, and im always shocked at how much more enjoyable football is when your at home. the only good part about live football is the tailgating. I have on a couple occasions gone to a redskins tailgate at RFK, then at 1245, left come home and watched games.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

I always find the view up there much better for football than a comparable spot in a baseball or basketball game. Just because of the nature of how things are spread out and take up more space in football. But really, unless you're super close, the view on your TV is going to be better. In order for it to be worth it you have to find value in all the other stuff, the energy of game day, the crowd, etc.

This is true re: those being the best views of the play. Unfortunately when you're talking about subzero temperatures it's only going to be colder the higher up you go in those stadiums (due to exposure to more wind) so it makes it even less worthwhile. And it's also true that the view on TV is superior most of the time (with the exception of showing off-ball player movement). And with subzero temperatures I think the more casual fans who might normally buy those upper-deck tickets are not going to find the value in those other gameday things that they would in other weather, so they'll stay home.

I've only been to 1 Pats game (plenty of Revs games in Gilette though), and those were with 1 ticket I bought myself and 2 from what was it...draft dodger's mom or something? And that was in early December. We rotated between the 1 seat lower down and the 2 seats higher up, and let me tell you...it was noticeably more frigging freezing in the higher-up seats even that day (to the point of being just about "too cold" for us hearty New Englanders) despite it probably not even being single-digits (ex-windchill).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I go to the Bengals At Ravens game about every other year, and im always shocked at how much more enjoyable football is when your at home. the only good part about live football is the tailgating. I have on a couple occasions gone to a redskins tailgate at RFK, then at 1245, left come home and watched games.

I haven't been to a Steelers game since 06. Maybe part of it is getting old, but driving down, spending $ to park, eat, tickets...only to be surrounded by a bunch of jagoffs. No thanks.

Hockey at least I'm getting the benefit of getting the game live rather than on TV. And even then, I use less and less of my tickets each season.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Apparently true. In Indy, Irsay tweeted:


Meijer's a superstar in our community. Bought 1200 tix and giving to local
military families. Game on WTHR. BLUE OUT, not black out.

I'm glad you forced a business to buy them instead of just giving them away yourself (or lowering prices).

(And I know the Colts aren't the only ones, but just the way Irsay talks about it is so disingenuous.)

[molson]

I usually go see the Patriots in Denver when they play there and always have a good time. I can understand how it's not for everyone though. I've seen a million games on TV and they all blend together, but I remember just about everything about the games I attend, from the people sitting around me, to what I ate, to where we drank beforehand. I usually end up at a small brewery shooting the shit with New England transplants. I wouldn't want to do it every week, but its fun to get off the sofa and experience that bigger, collective social atmosphere that game day in person can bring.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

I usually go see the Patriots in Denver when they play there and always have a good time. I can understand how it's not for everyone though. I've seen a million games on TV and they all blend together, but I remember just about everything about the games I attend, from the people sitting around me, to what I ate, to where we drank beforehand. I usually end up at a small brewery shooting the shit with New England transplants. I wouldn't want to do it every week, but its fun to get off the sofa and experience that bigger, collective social atmosphere that game day in person can bring.

But that's because you're an out-of-town fan too I imagine.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Welll, in the 2000s there were 46 4000 yard passers, we are on pace for 88 this decade

In the 2000s there were 34 1500 yard rushers, we are on pace for 18.

The game has changed, and it did happened very quickly. Reminds me of all the 50 HR hitters in baseball starting the in late 90s.

Also, I didn't take out the pre 1980s numbers because I assume that most of the posters on this board (and especially this thread), know that the NFL regular season was 14 games.

I wonder if this is a Ruthian change in the sport, or a DH type change that will readjust.

I see that among the top 14 average points per game years is: 1962, 63, 64 and 1965 at number 3 all time. Anyone know what happened? Change in rules? Scheme? By 1968, it's back to all time lowest average.

2010, 11, 12 and 13 are all in the top 11. With 2013 number 2 all time. My guess this is because of the pro qb and reciever rules changes. If the qb and receivers are protected, why not throw it 50 times a game?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I haven't been to a Steelers game since 06. Maybe part of it is getting old, but driving down, spending $ to park, eat, tickets...only to be surrounded by a bunch of jagoffs. No thanks.

Hockey at least I'm getting the benefit of getting the game live rather than on TV. And even then, I use less and less of my tickets each season.

im a nationals season ticket holder, and love live baseball... the others? meh.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm glad you forced a business to buy them instead of just giving them away yourself (or lowering prices).

(And I know the Colts aren't the only ones, but just the way Irsay talks about it is so disingenuous.)

NFL won't allow playoff tickets to be cut in price.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm glad you forced a business to buy them instead of just giving them away yourself (or lowering prices).

(And I know the Colts aren't the only ones, but just the way Irsay talks about it is so disingenuous.)

I heard on one of the sports radio shows I listen to that they can't lower the prices because of some NFL rule. Obviously he could eat the price and give them away but I don't really blame the guy when some company is going to come in and get the PR and also pay him close to a million bucks. (Right? 5000 x ~$200)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Of all the sports I've seen in person, pro football has to be the absolute least compelling.

I'm sure my dislike for the venue (Georgia Dome) and the matchup (Falcons - Bucs nearly a decade ago) plays into that but it was leave in the 3rd quarter bad. 50k-60k people staring at the video screens, virtually no one looking directly at the field, it was downright comical.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Of all the sports I've seen in person, pro football has to be the absolute least compelling.

I'm sure my dislike for the venue (Georgia Dome) and the matchup (Falcons - Bucs nearly a decade ago) plays into that but it was leave in the 3rd quarter bad. 50k-60k people staring at the video screens, virtually no one looking directly at the field, it was downright comical.

When I lived in Hawaii, I actually adjusted my move home date to see the pro bowl. I can honestly say, I had no idea what was going on at any point during the game.

[sabotai]

Re: Passing/Rushing trends in the NFL

These numbers are the average per team, per game. (From Pro-Football-Reference)

Year	Rush Att	Rush Yrds	Per Rush	Pass Att	Pass Yrds	Y/A
1980	32.1	127.5	4.0	30.6	196.0	6.41
1981	32.4	130.1	4.0	31.7	204.4	6.45
1982	30.8	117.8	3.8	31.5	199.4	6.33
1983	31.7	129.7	4.1	31.4	204.6	6.52
1984	30.8	123.9	4.0	32.0	205.9	6.43
1985	30.4	124.9	4.1	32.2	204.5	6.35
1986	30.2	118.7	3.9	32.3	205.5	6.36
1987	31.4	123.9	3.9	32.1	203.9	6.35
1988	30.3	121.4	4.0	31.5	200.7	6.37
1989	29.2	115.3	3.9	32.0	210.9	6.59
1990	27.8	113.9	4.1	30.2	194.8	6.45
1991	27.4	107.7	3.9	31.1	199.1	6.40
1992	27.4	110.5	4.0	29.9	187.6	6.27
1993	28.3	110.0	3.9	32.2	200.6	6.23
1994	28.0	104.3	3.7	33.6	213.6	6.36
1995	27.5	108.1	3.9	34.8	220.8	6.34
1996	28.3	109.0	3.9	33.3	207.4	6.23
1997	28.4	113.0	4.0	32.8	201.8	6.15
1998	28.3	112.7	4.0	32.3	205.0	6.35
1999	27.3	106.5	3.9	33.8	212.3	6.28
2000	27.6	112.6	4.1	32.9	206.9	6.29
2001	27.6	111.8	4.1	32.6	205.8	6.31
2002	27.5	116.1	4.2	33.8	212.2	6.28
2003	28.3	117.9	4.2	32.2	200.4	6.22
2004	28.2	116.6	4.1	31.9	210.5	6.60
2005	28.1	112.5	4.0	32.2	203.5	6.32
2006	28.2	117.3	4.2	32.0	204.8	6.40
2007	27.3	110.9	4.1	33.3	214.3	6.44
2008	27.6	116.0	4.2	32.3	211.3	6.54
2009	27.5	116.7	4.2	33.3	218.5	6.56
2010	27.2	114.5	4.2	33.7	221.6	6.58
2011	27.3	117.1	4.3	34.0	229.7	6.76
2012	27.2	115.9	4.3	34.7	231.3	6.67
2013	27.1	112.9	4.2	35.4	235.6	6.66

[Kodos]

You're in Atlanta! For god's sake, why do they have a dome?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

But that's because you're an out-of-town fan too I imagine.

There's also the fact that Gillette is a terrible place to tailgate/do anything else near. I've done it for numerous UMass games, HS Super Bowls, the lacrosse final four, even a US soccer game, and I have no desire to go watch a Pats game live. There's (almost) no public transportation, so you need to deal with the parking lot that is Route 1 after the game and the only bars/restaurants around are in the strip-mall esque Patriots Place. I love watching Patriots games much more than any of the other 3 teams, but between the commute, the weather, the ticket prices, and the surrounding areas it's a much nicer experience to go to a Red Sox, Bruins or Celtics game.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I see that among the top 14 average points per game years is: 1962, 63, 64 and 1965 at number 3 all time. Anyone know what happened? Change in rules? Scheme? By 1968, it's back to all time lowest average.

Just off the top of my head, if they are including the AFL, that might be the big influence in those numbers. They were still a new league in 62-65 and by '68, the talent level may have evened out among the teams resulting in more balanced play. But that's just a total guess.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

You're in Atlanta! For god's sake, why do they have a dome?

Beyond it being "what all the cool kids do" at the time I suspect the tradition of crappy weather for the Peach Bowl had as much to do with the decision as anything. Heavy rain, cold, sleet, snow, fog, you name it, the Peach Bowl ended up with it.

Plus it eventually landed the city 2 Super Bowls, 3 Final Fours and 4 Sweet Sixteens, so it kinda worked from that standpoint.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by panerd

I heard on one of the sports radio shows I listen to that they can't lower the prices because of some NFL rule. Obviously he could eat the price and give them away but I don't really blame the guy when some company is going to come in and get the PR and also pay him close to a million bucks. (Right? 5000 x ~$200)

NFL also has a rule saying they must be sold 72 hours prior to the game, but they were willing to "bend" that one multiple times...

I'm also pretty sure the NFL didn't tell these owners what to price their tickets at. They priced them higher than people wanted to pay, said things like "it'll be a shame if we have to have a blackout" and "We don't want to be the team that couldn't sell out a playoff game,", and wait for the extra deadlines and pressure to get people to buy tickets knowing a corporate sponsor will step in at the last minute if necessary.

(Fwiw, I got it wrong- it was actually Paul Brown, not Irsay, who tried to blame the fans for not buying overpriced tickets. Went with the guy known for sticking his foot in his mouth on twitter over the one known for being a cheapskate - my bad.)

[chadritt]

Actually I seem to remember that the NFL does decide the ticket prices based on the teams regular season prices. Id need to track down a source though.

Edit: its mentioned towards the end of http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...ine-3-000-left

[molson]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Actually I seem to remember that the NFL does decide the ticket prices based on the teams regular season prices. Id need to track down a source though.

I think that's true. Or at least, that's mentioned in most articles about blackouts.

Bengals make push to sell 10K playoff tickets - Bengals Story

"Playoff ticket prices are set by the NFL and they're more expensive than a regular ticket game with the cheapest being almost $100."

Packers send invoices for playoff tickets this week

"Ticket prices have been set by the NFL for the playoffs and are based on the respective prices of Lambeau Field bowl seats. A seat that was $97 for the regular season will be $125 for a Wild Card game, $156 for a Divisional Playoff and $230 for the NFC Championship. An $89 seat will be $117, $140 and $207, respectively, an $85 seat will be $113, $136 and $204, respectively, an $82 seat will be $110, $133 and $194, respectively, and a $74 seat will be $102, $125 and $186."

That doesn't seem THAT dramatic a price increase. If I was anywhere near there, I'd pay to go, at least once. (of course, most people living there have already done that more than once, and I imagine sitting through that weather isn't something you'd be excited about doing again.)

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

NFL also has a rule saying they must be sold 72 hours prior to the game, but they were willing to "bend" that one multiple times...

I'm also pretty sure the NFL didn't tell these owners what to price their tickets at. They priced them higher than people wanted to pay, said things like "it'll be a shame if we have to have a blackout" and "We don't want to be the team that couldn't sell out a playoff game,", and wait for the extra deadlines and pressure to get people to buy tickets knowing a corporate sponsor will step in at the last minute if necessary.

(Fwiw, I got it wrong- it was actually Paul Brown, not Irsay, who tried to blame the fans for not buying overpriced tickets. Went with the guy known for sticking his foot in his mouth on twitter over the one known for being a cheapskate - my bad.)

I'm not saying I agree with the owners I would like to think if our roles were reversed I would be a little more generous than they are but on the flip side maybe that is why I am typing about it on a computer with minimal savings in the bank and they have the wealth to own an NFL team. A million here, million there does add up.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Re: Passing/Rushing trends in the NFL

These numbers are the average per team, per game. (From Pro-Football-Reference)

Looks like rushing is about the same, maybe a slight dip (slightly fewer attempts per game, but about the same result, with a slightly higher average), while passing has a few more attempts, but much more success, on the order of 20-30 yards per game:

Rush Att	Rush Yrds	Per Rush	Pass Att	Pass Yrds	Y/A	Decade
30.93	123.32	3.97	31.73	203.58	6.416	1980
27.87	109.57	3.93	32.4	204.3	6.306	1990
27.79	114.84	4.14	32.65	208.82	6.396	2000
27.2	115.1	4.25	34.45	229.55	6.6675	2010

[rowech]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

NFL also has a rule saying they must be sold 72 hours prior to the game, but they were willing to "bend" that one multiple times...

I'm also pretty sure the NFL didn't tell these owners what to price their tickets at. They priced them higher than people wanted to pay, said things like "it'll be a shame if we have to have a blackout" and "We don't want to be the team that couldn't sell out a playoff game,", and wait for the extra deadlines and pressure to get people to buy tickets knowing a corporate sponsor will step in at the last minute if necessary.

(Fwiw, I got it wrong- it was actually Paul Brown, not Irsay, who tried to blame the fans for not buying overpriced tickets. Went with the guy known for sticking his foot in his mouth on twitter over the one known for being a cheapskate - my bad.)

Please never confuse Mike Brown and Paul Brown again.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

There's also the fact that Gillette is a terrible place to tailgate/do anything else near. I've done it for numerous UMass games, HS Super Bowls, the lacrosse final four, even a US soccer game, and I have no desire to go watch a Pats game live. There's (almost) no public transportation, so you need to deal with the parking lot that is Route 1 after the game and the only bars/restaurants around are in the strip-mall esque Patriots Place. I love watching Patriots games much more than any of the other 3 teams, but between the commute, the weather, the ticket prices, and the surrounding areas it's a much nicer experience to go to a Red Sox, Bruins or Celtics game.

Well sure of course. But I was talking about molson's comments about football games, and saying that maybe part of why he enjoyed going to the game was because he's not a fan living in the team's home region anymore.