50 States Game (FINISHED!)

[wade moore]

Virginia
1. Tobacco, Peanuts [AR]
2. Surrenders [HC]
3. Virginia Tech [SA]
4. Shenandoah Valley [NB]

[path12]

Georgia

[AR] Peanuts, peaches.
[HC] Chickamauga
[NB] Okefenokee Swamp
[SA] The Masters

[TazFTW]

Oregon

Crater Lake [NB]
Mount Hood [SA]
Oregon Trail [HC]
Nike [HC]

[tarcone]

MINNESOTA

(AR)- Sugarbeets
(NB)- Itasca Park
(HC)- Fort Snelling
(SA)- Mall America

[Radii]

New Hampshire

[HC] Covered Bridges
[AR] Granite
[NB] White Mountains
[HC] Dartmouth College

No SA.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by tarcone

MINNESOTA

(AR)- Sugarbeets
(NB)- Itasca Park
(HC)- Fort Snelling
(SA)- Mall America

I can think of a couple here where you would have done better but I'll wait until after the scoring to comment.

[JeeberD]

South Carolina

[AR] Tobacco, Cotton
[HC] Fort Sumter
[NB] Hilton Head
[SA] Myrtle Beach

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

South Carolina

[AR] Tobacco, Cotton
[HC] Fort Sumter
[NB] Hilton Head
[SA] Myrtle Beach

yeah, baby!

[Butter]

So, who's left to submit this round?

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

So, who's left to submit this round?

Masked

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Masked

Bump for Late Boy.

[TazFTW]

bump

[Masked]

Sorry, I've been out of town. I'll submit my entry tonight.

[WSUCougar]

Oh, that old ploy. I think he's been studying. Or traveling to New Mexico for research.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Oh, that old ploy. I think he's been studying. Or traveling to New Mexico for research.

Actually, I was visiting my last state to, uh, compile evidence to show the judges were wrong on the scoring.

[Masked]

New Mexico

[HC] Los Alamos
[AR] Tourqouise, Uranium
[NB] Carlsbad Caverns
[SA] Pecos, Bandelier

[Buccaneer]

Scores sent. Overall fairly solid (except for one).

[WSUCougar]

Stage 3 Scoreboard:

Florida (Butter of 69) - 18
1. Disney World [SA] - 5
2. St. Augustine [HC] - 4
3. Citrus fruit [AR] - 5
4. Florida Keys [NB] – 4

Coug’s Comment: I felt this state had a shot at 20. Well played.

Georgia (path12) - 17
[AR] Peanuts, peaches - 5
[HC] Chickamauga - 4
[NB] Okefenokee Swamp – 3
[SA] The Masters - 5

Coug’s Comment: Nice entry, but I wouldn’t have limited HC to Chickamauga.

South Carolina (sachmo71 & JeeberD): 16
[AR] Tobacco, Cotton – 3
[HC] Fort Sumter – 5
[NB] Hilton Head - 4
[SA] Myrtle Beach – 4

Coug’s Comment: Solid.

Virginia (wademoore): 15
1. Tobacco, Peanuts [AR] – 3
2. Surrenders [HC] – 5
3. Virginia Tech [SA] – 2
4. Shenandoah Valley [NB] – 5

Coug’s Comment: Surrenders (being Appomattox and Yorktown) was a brilliant choice of words, and Shenandoah is a great one, but VaTech was an uninspired choice.

New Mexico (Masked) - 15
[HC] Los Alamos - 4
[AR] Tourqouise, Uranium - 4
[NB] Carlsbad Caverns - 4
[SA] Pecos, Bandelier – 3

Coug’s Comment: Maybe Area 51 for SA?

West Virginia (Anxiety) - 14
1. Coal (AR) – 5
2. Gorge Bridge (NB) – 3
3. Jerry West (SA) – 3
4. Mine Wars (HC) – 3

Coug’s Comment: A solid entry.

Alabama (gstelmack) - 14
Crimson Tide [SA] – 4
GW Carver [AR] -4
Space Race [HC] – 3
Tuskegee Airmen [HC] – 4
-1 NB

Coug’s Comment: I liked the Tuskegee entry.

MINNESOTA (tarcone) - 14
(AR)- Sugarbeets - 4
(NB)- Itasca Park - 3
(HC)- Fort Snelling - 3
(SA)- Mall America - 4

Coug’s Comment: Maybe go with “10,000 lakes” for NB?

New Hampshire (Radii) - 14
[HC] Covered Bridges – 3
[AR] Granite – 4
[NB] White Mountains – 5
[HC] Dartmouth College - 3
–1 SA

Coug’s Comment: Nice entry.

Oregon (TazFTW) - 13
Crater Lake [NB] - 5
Mount Hood [SA] – 3
Oregon Trail [HC] – 4
Nike [HC] – 2
-1 AR

Coug’s Comment: Logging would have been a [4] or [5] AR in my book.

====================

Overall Scoreboard:
50 - Team 3 (Butter of 69)
49 - Team 4 (path12) & Team 7 (Masked)
45 - Team 8 (tarcone)
43 - Team 5 (gstelmack)
42 - Team 1 (sachmo71 & JeeberD) & Team 9 (Anxiety)
41 - Team 10 (Radii & Oliegirl)
40 - Team 6 (TazFTW)
38 - Team 2 (wade moore)

[WSUCougar]

Stage 4 begins with Vermont up on the bidding block.

[JeeberD]

Area 51 is in Nevada, isn't it? I think you're getting it mixed up with Roswell, Coug...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Virginia (wademoore): 15
1. Tobacco, Peanuts [AR] – 3
2. Surrenders [HC] – 5
3. Virginia Tech [SA] – 2
4. Shenandoah Valley [NB] – 5

Coug’s Comment: Surrenders (being Appomattox and Yorktown) was a brilliant choice of words, and Shenandoah is a great one, but VaTech was an uninspired choice.

Thanks on the surrenders... one of my intentions early on was to use this term...

On VA Tech - I'm curious what would have done better... I wonder if perhaps I would have been better with another HC (Civil War Battle, Jamestown, etc) and taken the one point hit...

I'm pretty dissapointed with the Tobacco/Peanuts score though...

[JeeberD]

I wonder if "VaTech football" would have done any better? Narrowed the scope down a bit to VaTech's brighest spot...

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Thanks on the surrenders... one of my intentions early on was to use this term...

On VA Tech - I'm curious what would have done better... I wonder if perhaps I would have been better with another HC (Civil War Battle, Jamestown, etc) and taken the one point hit...

I'm pretty dissapointed with the Tobacco/Peanuts score though...

I thought VA was a 20 point state, absolutely.

I would have gone with teh Natural Bridge as SA, one of the 7 natural wonders of the world.

-Anxiety

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Stage 3 Scoreboard:


MINNESOTA (tarcone) - 14
(AR)- Sugarbeets - 4
(NB)- Itasca Park - 3
(HC)- Fort Snelling - 3
(SA)- Mall America - 4

Coug’s Comment: Maybe go with “10,000 lakes” for NB?

I'm surprised Sugarbeets got that high a score. Minnesota is the top producer in the nation, but it still ranks far below other agricultural products for importance in the state. Iron ore or taconite should have been worth a five I think. I would have chose Boundary Waters over Itasca, although 10,000 lakes is a good suggestion as well. As far as historical, Minnesota is not so good for that category, so Fort Snelling is probably as good as anything. Mall of America was a solid choice, maybe even worthy of a 5 although 4 is very understandable.

[sachmo71]

Yeah, tobacco getting killed in SC. Go figure.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I thought VA was a 20 point state, absolutely.

I would have gone with teh Natural Bridge as SA, one of the 7 natural wonders of the world.

-Anxiety

Well, I think the Natural Bridge would be NB... But good point, it still would have been 4 (with the penalty) rather than 2...

Ohwell...

[Butter]

Can't say I'm too disappointed with this round... but I was definitely hoping for the first perfect 20.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Area 51 is in Nevada, isn't it? I think you're getting it mixed up with Roswell, Coug...

Whoops, you are correct, sir. :o

[tarcone]

i almost went iron ore, guess i should have.
Itasaca park was a 5. this is the head water of the mississippi river, with beautiful bluffs over looking it. yeah 10,000 lakes was the obvious choice. but, really, are all 10,000 lakes a natural beauty? i'll bet there are some pretty nasty lakes in minnesota

[gstelmack]

I'd love to hear the reasoning on Alabama's space race bits being only a 3. Huntsville was the hub of the rocket industry where they figured all this stuff out. Sure, launches are from Canaveral and Houston has the control center, but how on earth are Huntsville's contributions only a 3 for one of the most important historical and scientific research projects of the 20th century? Or should this have gone in another category (i.e. was the thinking that it's only a 3 for History & Culture)?

And I don't know how the inventor of peanut butter and the savior of agriculture in the south doesn't merit a 5.

I'm going to be real curious to see the thinking on the scoring of this round.

[Radii]

I'm extremely happy with my score on New Hampshire. Its too bad I killed my chances early on with my screwups in Kentucky.

[Karlifornia]

I think I would have chose Cape Canaveral as the HC for Florida, but that's just me.

[Abe Sargent]

Here's my WV comments:

Coal - 5 obviously

Gorge Bridge - At the highest arch bridge int ehworld, a bridge that was specifically built to enchance the local beauty, the largest such bridge in NA, (used to be in the world until a couple of years ago) spanning the second oldest river in the world, I was hoping that I'd get more than 3 - maybe four or something.

Jerry West - Getting three here is not suprising. This was a philosophy thing, I think. Can an individual give a state a 4 or 5 in SA alone? If so, Jerry West brings you home, if not, he just gets you a 3. Jerry West has an olympic Gold Medal, took WVU to the national basketball championship game (which was also WV related), was born and raised in rural WV, was one the premier players of his sport, was so iconic that the NBA logo uses his silouhette, and was a dynasty builder as a GM for the Lakers and has broguth the Grizzlies into respectability. He's also a really, really nice person, who still spends alot of time in WV. THe cominbation of national championship game fo ra scholl that doesn;t usually do that well, olypmic gold medal, one of the consense top of his spor,t iconic, and great GM would give a higher score, but if the philosophy is that an individual can't get you above a three, then I understand.

Mine wars - this was an interesting choice by myself. The official first battle in the Revolutionary War was fought in WV near Point Pleasant, but would that have gotten more points? I could have also have said Civil War Battles, but although many are fought here, most were lesser conflicts. I also thought about John Brown's raid in Harpers Ferry, but again, wasn't sure that would score out. I went with the Mine Wars which is very specific to WV. Just go to Google and type in Mine Wars and hit enter and see all of the WV stuff that comes up - virtually every hit in a WV site. Just got 3, but I didn;t know how to go with this category, so I went with something that is uniquely WV - the mine wars.

-Anxiety

[Buccaneer]

In just looking at the scores (they were very close to what I had submitted) and not reading further, let me say that I was very disappointed in wade's entry for Virginia. Coug and I, a couple of weeks, actually batted around several ideas for Virginia and I think we came up with 4-5 combinations that would have gotten 19. It's not a 20 state because you have to put up another HC instead of going with an AR. But to see wade only getting 15 was disappointing, esp. going with VT for SA instead of Williamsburg. Ugh.

As far as the rest, remember the scores submitted primarily reflect national comparisons. Something that is unique to the state (esp. for HC or NB) has to stand up to other similar features or events for other states. If a state has a HC or NB that truly is important or significant nationally, then it would get a 4 or 5. If it's not known too much outside of the state, then it would get a 3 at best. For example, the Gorge Bridge in WV is nice and all but it doesn't stack up very well against the much deeper and spectacular gorges out here in the West. In fact, I think the New River would have gotten a 4 because it is one of the best nationally known whitewater runs, which only WV can proudly claim. See how that works? More later....

[Buccaneer]

Addendum: AR can work very well on a national scale for a state. In order to get a high score, that crop has to be special on a national scale AND the state has to be a leading producer of it. Too many entries, esp. this round, are for crops that the state no longer produce in significant quantities. Georgia peaches and peanuts are known and sold throughout the US, Virginia peanuts are not. Virginia ham is known worldwide, SC cotton is not anymore.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

In just looking at the scores (they were very close to what I had submitted) and not reading further, let me say that I was very disappointed in wade's entry for Virginia. Coug and I, a couple of weeks, actually batted around several ideas for Virginia and I think we came up with 4-5 combinations that would have gotten 19. It's not a 20 state because you have to put up another HC instead of going with an AR. But to see wade only getting 15 was disappointing, esp. going with VT for SA instead of Williamsburg. Ugh.

I just actually turned red because I did not even think of Williamsburg as an SA.

Ugh... by my score I'm obviously not very good at this game.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Oregon (TazFTW) - 13
Crater Lake [NB] - 5
Mount Hood [SA] – 3
Oregon Trail [HC] – 4
Nike [HC] – 2
-1 AR

Coug’s Comment: Logging would have been a [4] or [5] AR in my book.

Yeah, I was in a "logging is a declining industry" mode of thinking. I knew that Oregon was still tops in the US in producing lumber but their output has been on the decline.

I was hoping Nike would have scored higher. They are the only Fortune 500 company in Oregon. The swoosh is probably one of the more recognizable logos in the world. Jordan/Tiger/Ronaldinho as spokespeople. I wasn't expecting a 5 but I wasn't expecting a 2 either.

[Buccaneer]

Here is my analysis and hopefully I’m able to address all of the questions about the scoring.
Florida (Butter of 69) - 18
1. Disney World [SA] - 5
2. St. Augustine [HC] - 4
3. Citrus fruit [AR] - 5
4. Florida Keys [NB] – 4

I don’t think it would’ve gotten a shot at 20 because of the relative ubiquitous of the state’s geography (I know South FL or different than North FL). There is no unique NB that would stand out but I do think the Keys is the best you can do. This state couldn’t have been played better.

Georgia (path12) - 17
[AR] Peanuts, peaches - 5
[HC] Chickamauga - 4
[NB] Okefenokee Swamp – 3
[SA] The Masters - 5

There are three things that everyone associates with Georgia: Masters, peaches and peanuts. That’s why they got 5s. Chickamauga, while an important battle, it’s still in the Western Theatre and actually part of the Chattanooga campaign (everyone goes to TN first). I think Sherman’s March would have gotten a 5 because that is so much tied to Georgia. The Swamp is ugly. So there.

South Carolina (sachmo71 & JeeberD): 16
[AR] Tobacco, Cotton – 3
[HC] Fort Sumter – 5
[NB] Hilton Head - 4
[SA] Myrtle Beach – 4

As I mentioned earlier, you got to pick an AR that is still important, esp. on a national scale. SC’s tobacco and cotton, while historically significant (but not as much as rice and indigo!), it is not anymore. I gave Sumter a 4 because as a battle, it wasn’t much. It’s importance was in the spark and I would have worded it differently to get a 5 but I can’t quibble with the final score. The other choices are solid.

Virginia (wademoore): 15
1. Tobacco, Peanuts [AR] – 3
2. Surrenders [HC] – 5
3. Virginia Tech [SA] – 2
4. Shenandoah Valley [NB] – 5

Anyone of these would have gotten a 5: Richmond Battlefields, Bull Run, Yorktown, Appomatox, Williamsburg, Jamestown, Overland Campaign, Civil War, Arlington Cemetery, Mount Vernon, Shenandoah Valley, Skyline Drive… You got 2 (actually three to get two of the 5s) but there’s no way an AR (except for Ham maybe would have gotten a 4 – so it would have been off to pick another HC or SA and lose the point.

New Mexico (Masked) - 15
[HC] Los Alamos - 4
[AR] Tourqouise, Uranium - 4
[NB] Carlsbad Caverns - 4
[SA] Pecos, Bandelier – 3

Solid choices for the first three but as an attraction, didn’t like Pecos and Bandelier that much. Santa Fe is a better SA, I think. Actually I would have done with Carlsbad as a SA and the White Sands as NB. Actually, I would have emphasized more of its Native culture with Taos Pueblo, which would have gotten a 5 from me (for either HC or SA).

West Virginia (Anxiety) - 14
1. Coal (AR) – 5
2. Gorge Bridge (NB) – 3
3. Jerry West (SA) – 3
4. Mine Wars (HC) – 3

WV’s coal is important for the nation and that’s why it got a 5. I already talked about the Gorge. The Mine Wars just doesn’t stack up in the importance of US historical events or culture. Important to WV’s history, yes, but remember it is competing against other states. Jerry West, one of the best shooting guards all-time but he’s remembered as a Laker (and later as a GM for a couple of teams). Who knew, or cares, that he came from WV? Sure he made a name for himself at WVU but he became famous while in CA.

Alabama (gstelmack) - 14
Crimson Tide [SA] – 4
GW Carver [AR] -4
Space Race [HC] – 3
Tuskegee Airmen [HC] – 4
-1 NB

I like the Tuskegee entry as well. I don’t know if we have ever given a 5 to a college program, so a 4 for the Tide is good enough. Carver does not rate a 5 . While we all know of his contributions to agriculture, he was one of many to have done so throughout American history. 4 is a good score. Ah, the Space Race entry. While there is no doubt of the importance of the Arsenal and Flight Center, not many would think of Huntsville as part of the "Space Race" – that goes to Florida and Texas. Something more specific like Flight Center or Rocket City would have gotten a 4.

MINNESOTA (tarcone) - 14
(AR)- Sugarbeets - 4
(NB)- Itasca Park - 3
(HC)- Fort Snelling - 3
(SA)- Mall America - 4

I debated about Sugarbeets but MN has held the #1 spot for its production for some time now and sugarbeets are more important to the national economy than one might think (because of its use a bio-fuel). You mentioned Itasca as being the headwater..that means it’s a creek. And you mentioned the bluffs. That’s not special. Maybe Fort Snelling is the most important historic site in the state but on a national scale, it was of minor importance. Ryche’s comments are good.

New Hampshire (Radii) - 14
[HC] Covered Bridges – 3
[AR] Granite – 4
[NB] White Mountains – 5
[HC] Dartmouth College - 3
–1 SA

I actually had Covered Bridges higher, not so much of their historical importance, but because they are one of the better cultural landscape features in the country. Dartmouth was fairly weak but it’s hard to come up with another HC. Instead I would have done with Fall Foliage for SA. That would have gotten your total to 17.

Oregon (TazFTW) - 13
Crater Lake [NB] - 5
Mount Hood [SA] – 3
Oregon Trail [HC] – 4
Nike [HC] – 2
-1 AR
Another weak HC at the expense of an obvious AR. Either Timber or Williamette Valley or Tillamook Produce would have gotten at least a couple of more points than the 1 Nike got. Nike has no historical significance and it’s cultural influence can be debated whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing. I’ve been to Mount Hood a couple of times and there’s not much attraction there – not compared to Rainier or Olympia. Crater Lake and Oregon Trail are great choices.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Here is my analysis and hopefully I’m able to address all of the questions about the scoring.


Georgia (path12) - 17
[AR] Peanuts, peaches - 5
[HC] Chickamauga - 4
[NB] Okefenokee Swamp – 3
[SA] The Masters - 5

There are three things that everyone associates with Georgia: Masters, peaches and peanuts. That’s why they got 5s. Chickamauga, while an important battle, it’s still in the Western Theatre and actually part of the Chattanooga campaign (everyone goes to TN first). I think Sherman’s March would have gotten a 5 because that is so much tied to Georgia. The Swamp is ugly. So there.

[/size]

I was torn between Chickamauga and Shermans March. I almost just put down Chickamauga & Atlanta. Would that have worked?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by path12

I was torn between Chickamauga and Shermans March. I almost just put down Chickamauga & Atlanta. Would that have worked?

I don't think so because they were two separate things. Atlanta was more spectacular for its fires that were set by the retreating army, not so much for its turning point (it became inevitable that the Union would take over the city). Sherman's March was of very little military importance but much more famous for its psychological and political importance, to the point that it has grown to mythology status.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay i'm going to be a hater.

how long can this game possibly go on? is there a point to it beyond trying to be the game that goes on the longest? 50 states times 4! stages already! jeezus!

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay i'm going to be a hater.

how long can this game possibly go on? is there a point to it beyond trying to be the game that goes on the longest? 50 states times 4! stages already! jeezus!

Um...it's not 50x4. More like 50/5 = five rounds and players now are bidding for states to complete their fourth sets. Admittedly it does seem to have taken some time, but there have been lots of dead periods. If it were the only thing us players and judges ever did, we'd have been done sooner....

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay i'm going to be a hater.

how long can this game possibly go on? is there a point to it beyond trying to be the game that goes on the longest? 50 states times 4! stages already! jeezus!

Yeah, this game has gone on for a while.

I'm hoping the state I've been saving for comes up for bid in the next few days, so I can get it in before I go on vacation next week.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I don't think so because they were two separate things. Atlanta was more spectacular for its fires that were set by the retreating army, not so much for its turning point (it became inevitable that the Union would take over the city). Sherman's March was of very little military importance but much more famous for its psychological and political importance, to the point that it has grown to mythology status.

That's why I decided against Sherman -- the fact that Chickamauga (IMO) had a much greater overall military importance. Appreciate your thoughts as always on these.

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay i'm going to be a hater.

how long can this game possibly go on? is there a point to it beyond trying to be the game that goes on the longest? 50 states times 4! stages already! jeezus!

I played in a couple of pbem Diplomacy games that lasted a year. Compared to that we're cruisin'.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay i'm going to be a hater.

how long can this game possibly go on? is there a point to it beyond trying to be the game that goes on the longest? 50 states times 4! stages already! jeezus!

How long can it possibly go on? I'll put my bet on round 5.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Sherman's March was of very little military importance but much more famous for its psychological and political importance, to the point that it has grown to mythology status.

To the extent that in many areas of the south, especially Georgia, "Sherman" is the 8th of the "7 words you cannot say..."

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay i'm going to be a hater.

how long can this game possibly go on? is there a point to it beyond trying to be the game that goes on the longest? 50 states times 4! stages already! jeezus!

At least try to be an informed hater. The game format is in the first post. This is the 4th of 5 stages, but the number of remaining states is small. We'll be out of your way before you know it.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by tarcone

i almost went iron ore, guess i should have.
Itasaca park was a 5. this is the head water of the mississippi river, with beautiful bluffs over looking it. yeah 10,000 lakes was the obvious choice. but, really, are all 10,000 lakes a natural beauty? i'll bet there are some pretty nasty lakes in minnesota

There are, pretty much any of the muck ponds that are called lakes in the southern half of the state

[WSUCougar]

Last call for Vermont