2005-06 Soccer Thread

[terpkristin]

linky linky.

This is the oddest story I've read today. The refs can take bribes but the bribes can't influence their on-the-pitch decisions....oh yeah, I see that happening.

Originally Posted by Reuters

LAGOS (Reuters) - Football referees in Nigeria can take bribes from clubs but should not allow them to influence their decisions on the pitch, a football official said on Friday. Fanny Amun, acting Secretary-General of the Nigerian Football Association, said bribery was common in the Nigerian game.
"We know match officials are offered money or anything to influence matches and they can accept it," Amun told Reuters on Friday.
Amun first made the statement earlier in the week to a football seminar in the capital Abuja, prompting protests from other officials.
"Referees should only pretend to fall for the bait, but make sure the result doesn't favor those offering the bribe," Amun said.
At the seminar, Nigerian football league chairman Oyuiki Obaseki reprimanded referees for poor quality match reports, saying that bribery was to blame.
"The quality of your reports have not done our league any good, so please desist from corrupt practices," he told delegates.
Despite a high-profile campaign to stamp out graft in the impoverished African country, Nigeria consistently ranks among the most corrupt countries in the world -- and football is no exception.

/tk

[Crapshoot]

From the Guardian - a good article:

Arsenal regain respect just as Chelsea are throwing it away

Richard Williams
Tuesday April 4, 2006
The Guardian

Sometimes you think it would be nice if sport were not fuelled by such extreme emotions, if it were somehow a bit more civilised. More Corinthian, even. And then comes a week such as this, when emotion is all there is.

Tomorrow night Arsenal will arrive at the Stadio delle Alpi knowing they carry the good wishes of a large part of football-loving England in their attempt to reach the semi-finals of the Champions League; in saloon bars and front rooms throughout the nation, diehard fans of other clubs will be hoping to see them complete the elimination of Juventus so brilliantly begun at Highbury last week. And four days later Chelsea, champions of England, will take the field at Stamford Bridge with virtually everyone except their own supporters praying for their failure.

Article continues
Seldom can there have been such unanimity among a broad mass of football fans on matters that lie outside their own allegiance. And the really strange thing about this phenomenon is that it represents a precise reversal of the two clubs' historic roles over the last half-century.

Until Arsène Wenger's arrival in north London, Arsenal had laboured under the burden of a nation's disdain for the humdrum style in which their victories were accumulated. From Bertie Mee to George Graham, the story was the same. Arsenal were respected, certainly. Admired, never.

Before the advent of Jose Mourinho, the image of Chelsea was similarly well defined. From Tommy Docherty to Claudio Ranieri, Stamford Bridge produced teams with a combination of artistry and inconsistency that won friends rather than titles. When Dave Sexton's glittering team confronted Leeds United in the Cup final of 1970, for example, there was no doubt about where the nation's sympathies lay.

Yet now Chelsea, thanks to the way one man's personality is perceived, have achieved the seemingly impossible and transformed themselves into a latter-day version of Don Revie's Leeds, detested and reviled not for their success but for the manner in which it has been achieved. Thanks to Wenger, meanwhile, Arsenal have become a symbol of all the virtues to which the game aspires: inspiration, optimism, self-expression, le fair-play.

These are generalisations, and disguise much contradictory evidence. Wenger's blindness to his players' disciplinary indiscretions is an old issue, but still relevant. The brilliance of Mourinho's coaching is beyond dispute. But now we see Arsenal, without an Englishman on the field, binding the country together in a joyful embrace while Chelsea, with three first-choice England internationals at their heart, respond to rumours of internal conflict by narrowing their eyes, closing their ears and adopting the siege mentality.

But if Arsenal go all the way to Paris and face Barcelona, every football lover's current darlings, in the final, how are we supposed to behave? And where will a neutral's sympathy lie if Chelsea and Manchester United meet at the Bridge on the last Saturday of this month with the title still in the balance? This week, at least, we all know where we stand.

[kingfc22]

AC Milan vs. Lyon about to get started on ESPN2 in Champs League action.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

AC Milan vs. Lyon about to get started on ESPN2 in Champs League action.

What a game!

[TazFTW]

Indeed.

They do need some sort of goal line cam though.

[AlexB]

Question:

When Ashley Cole gets fit, he gets back in the side - Flamini has done exceptionally well, but he wasn't even a left-back at the start of the year, and Cole IMHO is one the best in his position in the world.

But does Wenger put Campbell into a back line that is looking almost impenetrable recently? They have just set a CL record for not conceding, and Senderos & especially Toure are looking class. Campbell has shown mental frailty this year, and frail form, but is considered the experienced defensive rock, which could be crucial in the semi final in the biggest club competition in Europe...

Discuss.

[Desnudo]

Play him in a few games to build his value back up and then sell him during the summer.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Play him in a few games to build his value back up and then sell him during the summer.

I doubt that he would get much return for him. OTOH, he was a free signing so anything would be a net positive. Unless Arsene goes center back shopping, however, I think Sol is around for at least one more season.

[AlexB]

Oh yeah baby! Leicester play on national TV against promotion chasing Crystal Palace, and win 2-0

First half was even, but we get the goal. Second half we probably only had 33% possession but conceded exactly zero clear chances - our defence was excellent, and we scored a nice counter attacking goal with about 5 to go.

Marker down for next season - the Foxes are back

[Marc Vaughan]

Bah Brighton lost on saturday to virtually condemn us to relegation (its still mathematically possible to avoid it but even die hard optimists like me are starting to waver somewhat now) ....

Still that means an exciting promotion season next year

(hopefully )

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Bah Brighton lost on saturday to virtually condemn us to relegation (its still mathematically possible to avoid it but even die hard optimists like me are starting to waver somewhat now) ....

Still that means an exciting promotion season next year

(hopefully )

I swear, SI should buy a team

[ice4277]

Has anybody used the Setanta Broadband service? I was thinking about signing up for the month, its $12 and will give the Champions League semi-final that ESPN is not carrying, and lots of Championship football leading up to the playoffs.

[SirFozzie]

I use their fulltime channel, good stuff.

[Katon]

The PFA nominees have been announced.

PFA PLAYER OF THE YEAR
Joe Cole (Chelsea)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
Frank Lampard (Chelsea)
Thierry Henry (Arsenal)
Wayne Rooney (Man United)
John Terry (Chelsea)

So that's three different Chelsea players and they still managed to miss out one of the two serious contenders for our Player of the Year title (William Gallas, in case you're wondering). Should've had Gallas instead of Lampard, who's been pretty average since the turn of the year. My vote: Cole first, Rooney second, Terry third, though I'd take Gallas over the lot of them.

PFA YOUNG PLAYER OF THE YEAR
Darren Bent (Charlton)
Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal)
Anton Ferdinand (West Ham)
Aaron Lennon (Tottenham)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Man United)
Wayne Rooney (Man United)

This looks pretty good. Rooney to win by thoroughly outclassing the rest (as opposed to last year, when he won by being the second-best candidate when everyone forgot Petr Cech was eligible). After him there's a lot of people who've been good for half the season but average for the other half; Bent and Ferdinand edge it for me.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Katon

...Should've had Gallas instead of Lampard, who's been pretty average since the turn of the year. ...

The votes are taken early in the new year, which explains some of the shortlisted players.

Henry is at a big price for this reason - he was injured when the vote was taken, and people tend to have a 'who's playing best now mentaility'. This goes a long way to explain why Lampard is in there and Gallas isn't - Gallas especially has caught they in 2006 more so than 2005, and as such timing was not on his side.

[Katon]

I completely agree that Lampard's benefiting from the early vote, but I don't thing it's exactly that Gallas has been better since the turn of the year. His real problem is that he's too damn versatile - he's spent a third of the year being one of the top right-backs in the league, a third of the year being one of the top left-backs in the league, and the rest of the time being one of the world's best centre-backs. All the hopping around makes it difficult to realize just how good he's been. Plus fullbacks never get nominated for this type of award.

[Crapshoot]

Cole ? Cole ? over Henry/Gerrard/Rooney ? That's impressive...

[Katon]

Cole's been the only one of our wingers to stay in form for the full season. He's been scoring and creating regularly, and is one of the major reasons we're top. December in particular, when we were building up our lead, he was absolutely incredible.

Henry's been great - he always is - but Arsenal's away form counts against him, partly because he's captain and gets some of the blame for their tame performances and partly because their major problem on the road has been goalscoring.

Rooney's been spectacular in most of United's big games (except for the CL ) but against the lesser teams they've been winning more by good team play and lethal finishing from Van Nistelrooij/Saha. He's had a very good year, though, hence my second-place vote.

Gerrard's a matchwinner on his day, but I think people tend to overrate his consistency a bit. Plus, for every big game he wins with a spectacular performance, there's also one he loses with an equally spectacular cock-up (see: France at Euro 04, last year's League Cup final, this year v Arsenal).

[Desnudo]

Sunderland - They go down if they tie, so what's with the standing on the ball at the end? I haven't seen them at all this season, but if that's the passion they play with, then it's no wonder they are going down. I've been on some bad teams before and know that after you lose a bunch of games it's very hard to motivate and your confidence is shot, but they could have won that game. Who passes back on a 4-on-3 with a minute left? Just sad. I'm not a MU fan by any stretch, but it would have been nice to have that game against Chelsea be interesting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty entertaining day on FSC, at least to this otherwise infrequent viewer.

Watched West Ham-Middlesbrough live this morning and now watching Arsenal-Spurs (although I already know how this ends, it was interesting to see the controversy and the sideline blow up).

Add these two games to my watching Arsenal-Villarreal earlier in the week and I've probably totalled more viewing time in the past week than I have all season. Just seems more interesting, more intense, or something. For whatever reason, it's more compelling.

For those who are regulars, is the intensity really this much higher at this point in the various competitions (as I'm perceiving it) or is it just me?
(I'm thinking I just happened to surf across and stop on some really good games at the right time)

[Marc Vaughan]

For those who are regulars, is the intensity really this much higher at this point in the various competitions (as I'm perceiving it) or is it just me?

Soccer is always fairly 'intense' - but towards the end of a season/competition it always increases substantially.

With the Arsenal/Spurs situation especially its a huge deal as the two teams are local rivals and Spurs haven't finished above Arsenal for quite a while ... its a very tense situation especially because in theory 4th would give one of the teams a Champions League spot (and potentially £20-30m more revenue next season) ... however Arsenal fans are still very aware that Spurs could finish 4th and miss out anyway if Arsenal win the CL this season (which is still very possible) ...

Its creating a very tense and intruiging finish.

PS> Unfortunately for me, my team Brighton are already relegated from the Championship
(which continues our normal habit of refusing to remain in a division for long, last season was the first time in 6 years that we hadn't been relegated or promoted during a season)

[MJ4H]

Thanks to this guy above me here (Marc Vaughan, in case someone sneaks a post in here before I finish), I'm starting to get interested in some of the English Football League stuff.

For various reasons, I've not quite arbitrarily picked Huddersfield as the team I'm going to follow and root for (they are also the team I play with in FM). I wonder if you guys know of anyway I could catch their upcoming playoff games in League One? An online viewing option of some sort? I'm new to this scene, so I need any kind of guidance you can give.

Also, can someone explain exactly how the promotion playoffs work? From what I understand, the top 2 teams are automatically promoted (currently Southend who I believe is a lock, and Colchester, somewhat vulnerable). Now, spots 3-6 then play a playoff for the final promotion spot, right? Is that a single elimination playoff (3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners play) or is it something more complicated (I imagine something like 6 vs 5, winner vs 4, winner vs 3, winner promoted as not being out of the question). So what is the scoop here? (and be nice to the newb)

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, sad to see how Shearer's career ended . At least he was a goalscorer in the game he got his injury in. The man will be missed.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Thanks to this guy above me here (Marc Vaughan, in case someone sneaks a post in here before I finish), I'm starting to get interested in some of the English Football League stuff.

For various reasons, I've not quite arbitrarily picked Huddersfield as the team I'm going to follow and root for (they are also the team I play with in FM). I wonder if you guys know of anyway I could catch their upcoming playoff games in League One? An online viewing option of some sort? I'm new to this scene, so I need any kind of guidance you can give.

Also, can someone explain exactly how the promotion playoffs work? From what I understand, the top 2 teams are automatically promoted (currently Southend who I believe is a lock, and Colchester, somewhat vulnerable). Now, spots 3-6 then play a playoff for the final promotion spot, right? Is that a single elimination playoff (3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners play) or is it something more complicated (I imagine something like 6 vs 5, winner vs 4, winner vs 3, winner promoted as not being out of the question). So what is the scoop here? (and be nice to the newb)

It's 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 in two-legged ties, then the winners play at - well, theoretically at Wembley, but til that actually gets finished it's at the Millenium Stadium.

[Cards4ever]

West Ham wins in the Semi's this morning and that gets them a Euro Cup place for next season because Liverpool has already qualified!

[ISiddiqui]

Wow! Great job by West Ham, in the first season back in the Premiership!

[Desnudo]

Now that West Ham is into Europe, what would happen if Arsenal and Middlesbrough both win in Europe? What would happen to Tottenham?

[SirFozzie]

if Arsenal wins, Tottenham would get the first guaranteed UEFA Cup spot (first spot via standings). West Ham would get the guaranteed UEFA Cup spot (Cup).

any other UEFA Cup spopts would go by Standings.

Middlesborough would get an extra UEFA Cup spot for being the defending champion, even if they didn't qualify normally.. the Champions League Thing is only because no league can have 5 Champions League spots ever again, and England has 4 CL spots already

[TazFTW]

So should Davids have kicked the ball out? Or was the commentator correct in saying if two players from the same team collide, play on.

[Marc Vaughan]

the Champions League Thing is only because no league can have 5 Champions League spots ever again, and England has 4 CL spots already

Although just to add to the usual drama rumour has it that Spurs are already complaining to EUFA about the possibility of them missing out on a spot if Arsenal win the CL ... doubt they'll manage to get things changed, but it did work for Liverpool/Everton last season after all ...

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

So should Davids have kicked the ball out? Or was the commentator correct in saying if two players from the same team collide, play on.

The sporting play, as mentioned by the same commentator, would have been to kick it out. You can't know how hurt the guy is on the field, regardless of who was involved in the collision. I also didn't like what he said about how important the game was. Either you're sporting or you aren't. That said, the ref could have stopped the game and chose not to.

[Marc Vaughan]

So should Davids have kicked the ball out? Or was the commentator correct in saying if two players from the same team collide, play on.

In the 'old' days people generally did kick the ball out - they often do today, but sometimes don't partially sometimes because they might believe the player in question is 'play acting' and attempting to waste time .. especially if it occurs when the team without the injured player has been applying a lot of pressure or retaining a lot of posession.

This is simply because a break in play for treatment/removing player from the pitch can often allow the other team to reorganise and regroup ..

[ice4277]

Not to mention, it was two guys from the same team running into each other. Also, Spurs had already started the buildup to the goal. I think continuation of the play was warranted in that situation.

[AlexB]

IMHO the norm would have been for the ball to be kicked out for the player to receive attention.

But the interesting thing is the criticism from Wenger - is he being hypocritical following his Arsenal side doing exactly the same against Sheffield Utd in the Cup a few years ago, or is he ebing consistent because he offered (and the FA agreed) to replay this tie because of this incident?

[daedalus]

My two cents, although I have not seen the match or the incident, so, y'know, for what it's worth . . .

Given that it was 2 Arses that ran into each other, I don't think the Spuds could be blamed very much for continuing play. Especially given that Gilberto managed to get up fairly quickly (Manu was apparently the only one who took a knock in that collision).

Based on descriptions, the blame lies COMPLETELY with the Arses' defense (those who remained standing), in my opinion. Apparently they stopped playing, expecting the ball to be kicked out. If the whistle hasn't blown and the ball hasn't gone out of play, you keep playing. End of story.

If there was anything that I would find objectionable (and, in my opinion, probably what Le Professor may have found irritating), it would be Jol's stance that he did not see the play*. Arseblogger and a number of others (Arse fan, obviously) maintain that they can clearly see Jol screaming at Carrick to play on as he was trying to figure out if the fallen Arses were injured for real or not. I believe Arseblogger has a link to a video of this on his blog.

*Yes, given Wenger's tendency to "miss" poorly made plays by his players, I recognize and understand the possible irony here. On the other hand, I feel there is a difference. When Wenger claims that he misses bad plays /tackles by his players (which, as far as I can tell, has not happen in awhile), he is not generally up and screaming instructions to do so to said specific player. It is (very) possible that I am merely biased but I do feel that there is a difference.

[daedalus]

According to comments I've read on BigSoccer (in the Arsenal forum), the Arse have done something similar to Sunderland twice. On one of the occasions, Le Professor offered to replay the game. If this was truly the case (it'd be before my time following footie), then there is ZERO ground for complaints from the Arse.

[MikeVick7]

Has the player's "acting" when injured always been in the game? Or is this something that has gotten worse over the years? If there's one turn-off to soccer, it's this.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by daedalus

According to comments I've read on BigSoccer (in the Arsenal forum), the Arse have done something similar to Sunderland twice. On one of the occasions, Le Professor offered to replay the game. If this was truly the case (it'd be before my time following footie), then there is ZERO ground for complaints from the Arse.

Sheffield United, not Sunderland. It was an FA Cup game a few years back; Marc Overmars kept going when a United player went down and crossed for Kanu to score the winner. Arsenal won the replay, too.

I haven't seen the play, but I've seen some people say that Eboue seemed to be doing fine until he looked up and saw where the ball was. If that's true, I have no sympathy whatsoever for him - try to exploit a gentleman's agreement, you deserve to concede a goal. On the other hand, if he was genuinely hurt then Spurs probably should've put the ball out.

[Critch]

1. Arsenal can start complaining about bad sportsmanship when Robert Pires and the rest stop hitting the deck at the slightest contact.

2. Arsene Wenger can start complaining about bad sportsmanship when he stops acting like a spoiled brat when things don't go his way. Shake hands with opposing managers at the end of the game.

3. Bye bye Thierry, enjoy Spain.

4. Arsenal suck.

[Mac Howard]

Wenger's argument is that Carrick stopped and hesitated as if to decide whether to put the ball in touch or not. Thus the Arsenal defence switched off expecting him to do so. Then Carrick made his pass and caught the defence off guard.

But I've watched the incident several times now and Carrick's hesitation had nothing to do with the injured players. Following the collision he collects the ball and turns to make a pass. But there's no immediate pass on. He looks forward, looks across the pitch, adjusts the ball as he considers his different options and finally sees a pass and makes it. At no point does he even look in the direction of the injured players. His hesitation is purely about finding a free colleague.

Wenger's view of Carrick is only from the back. He cannot see what Carrick is looking at. He merely assumes that the hesitation is caused by the injured players. It isn't. The collision of the players was never sufficently severe to cause him to consider putting the ball out.

Wenger (and Mourinho is turning out to be the same) has always had a degree of paranoia about him. His behaviour here was unacceptable but merely a more extreme case of previous behaviour from him. Jol did not only "not see" Carrick deceive the Arsenal defence, there was simply no deception to see. The accusation that Jol was lieing was a disgrace.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The sporting play, as mentioned by the same commentator, would have been to kick it out. You can't know how hurt the guy is on the field, regardless of who was involved in the collision. I also didn't like what he said about how important the game was. Either you're sporting or you aren't. That said, the ref could have stopped the game and chose not to.

The ref went so far as to wave play to continue

[daedalus]

Paddy, for all his size, dove and went to ground more easily than SuperBob. At least Pires has the excuse of having torn a knee. Which isn't to say I don't think Pires and Reyes goes to the ground far more easily and often than (I think) they should, for I do. But at least their claims are more legitimate (to me) than Paddy's was. Yes, I thought the same thing while he was an Arse.

It would suck if Titi leaves for Barça but they would be fun to watch. I love the formation that Rijkaard has them playing now and I'd wonder how they'll fit Titi into that. I would imagine one of the defensive midfielders would have to go, which could hurt their defense. The only negative I can see in that combination with be Titi's penchant to drift to the same (left side) channel as Ronaldinho. But, Hell, there are MUCH worse problems to have.

But, for all he has done for Arsenal, I would say thank you, have fun in the sun and good luck with his anti-racism quest. Unlike Paddy, he was always committed to the club and never had those ugly yearly flings. He was a Gooner through and through (unlike someone whose name rhymes with Ashley and Cole) and has scored some ridiculous video game-type goals (I need to find the century of goals of him and Dennis). Go, Titi!

[daedalus]

Hey, Matthijs.

How do you think the injuries to Van der Vaart, De Jong and Maduro affects the Oranje? As talented as the Hamburg duo are (insert expletives here for the fact that De Jong ended up Hamburg instead of Arsenal and at such a price), Maduro seems to play a bigger part in Van Basten's plan. Will his absence be the bigger loss? Admittedly, of the three, he's the only one who is not going under the knife so he would seem to have a better chance to come back than the other two.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Hey, Matthijs.

How do you think the injuries to Van der Vaart, De Jong and Maduro affects the Oranje? As talented as the Hamburg duo are (insert expletives here for the fact that he went to Hamburg instead of coming to Arsenal at such a price), Maduro seems to play a bigger part in Van Basten's plan. Will his absence be the bigger loss? Admittedly, of the three, he's the only one who is not going under the knife so he would seem to have a better chance to come back than the other two.

In a way, it's a lucky thing they're all midfielders. That's the only place on the team where we have serious depth. We can still field a midfield with Mark van Bommel or Denny Landzaat, Phillip Cocu and Edgar Davids. In the end, I think the four youngsters (incl. also injured Wesley Sneijder) will be fighting for one starting role at best anyway, although there's nothing wrong with a De Jong-Maduro-Van der Vaart line. Other options could be Giovanni van Bronckhorst as left midfielder, George Boateng (yeah right!), . Sure, they got playing time from Van Basten in the past year or two, but in his philosophy that's no guarantee to be playing in the World Cup. Even Ruud van Nistelrooij seems to be on the bubble these days. The only sure thing seems to be goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar.

[TazFTW]

I always though that there was a rule not to show fans running onto the field. Arsenal/Villarreal, hey look its a fan running onto the field and he hands Henry a Barcelona jersey with Henry on it.

[kingfc22]

PK given to Villarreal in the 89th minute

[TazFTW]

Oh my.

[edit]More shots of the chick in the red, k ,thx.

[cthomer5000]

I'm losing my mind watching gamecast + getting MIJB's additional commentary...

I'm pullling for Tottenham to make the Champions league, and obviously Arsenal advancing hurts those chances a great deal.

[kingfc22]

Lehmann makes the save.

[ice4277]

Crazy finish to an otherwise meh game. Arsenal did what they needed to do, but it was not a very authoritative performance. Also, the referee in the match was awful. There were probably 4 or 5 other fouls that he could have awarded penalties on in that match, and he let a ton of blatant stuff go.