OT: Star Wars Episode III

[Warhammer]

My ranking:

1) Empire - You had the great Hoth battle, Vader was on the war path ("Apology accepted Captain Needa."), Luke and Vader battle, the score, Luke begins his training with Yoda, Han Solo having everything go wrong, and the final scene staring off into the galaxy.

2) ANH - It started it all, need I say more?

3) Sith - A great joyride.

4) Menace - After blocking out Jar Jar, I really enjoy the movie. Granted there are some annoying scenes, it comes out better than Jedi

5) Jedi - Not a bad flick, but the Ewoks are annoying. This is where Lucas started losing his grip.

6) Clones - Who was the clone who directed this movie?

I think part of the problem was the original trilogy had a set of characters cast as a unit. Whereas the new trilogy seemed to have some bright up and coming names. They did not have the chemistry that Ford, Hamil, and Fischer had.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

And if Obi Wan really had all that compassion for Anakin, why let him burn like a marshmellow? If he really was like a brother why not just lop off the head and put him out of his misery. But no, he had to cruelly and needlessly let him burn up, violating the Law of Armed Conflict regarding humanity and the requirement to not inflict unecessary suffering, and allow him to be found and reborn as Darth Vader.

I thought that was completely in keeping with character. Obi-Wan couldn't bring himself to kill Anakin because it went against both the Jedi code and that he still thought of Anakin as his brother despite what had happened. But he knew Anakin was too dangerous to be kept alive and I think he thought leaving Anakin was the only way to safeguard the galaxy without killing Anakin. He was wrong.

There is a reason why Sidious went to such lengths to save Vader. Anakin had the potential to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever. He did not believe he would find a more powerful apprentice.

Both in the movies and in the expanded universe, there are plenty of hints about the nature of Anakin's birth. If you look closely at the clues and the role of fate in the Star Wars films, there is certainly a likelihood that Sidious had a particular interest in Anakin from day one and a had a reason to save him at Mustafar.

[kcchief19]

As for the debate over the best/worst, I've seen ROTS again and it confirms for me that I would rank it third in the series.

The funny thing is that while fans debate whether ANH or ESB is the best, every list of the best movies always includes ANH and never ESB. While ESP certainly has the better direction, script, acting and others, ESB is like hundreds of other movies that never would have happened without ANH. That movie was revolutionary not just for the special effects but for re-inventing what movies could be. There have be hundreds of movies like Star Wars made since 1977, but there were few if any movies like it before that. Look at the top-grossing movies of the '70s before Star Wars -- there is not a Star Wars-type film in the bunch.

Despite that, as a fan I still give the edge to ESB followed by ANH. Sith edges out Jedi. Honestly, TMP and AOTC are a coin flip to me. I'd probably give the edge to AOTC, but I don't think either film was as bad as most people do. I understand those movies were as good as the originals, but they weren't "Baby Geniuses" or "Shark Boy and Lava Girl" either.

[ISiddiqui]

If we are ranking movies, my list is similar to JonInMiddleGA's but with one 'switch':

1) Empire
2) Sith
3) A New Hope
4) Jedi
5) Clones
6) Menace

I have Empire are my #1 instead of ANH as Jon did. And I agree with thim that I don't see that much of a gap between 4 and 5. I wasn't a fan of Menace, but I consider it average... and I give it a break because it was obvious exposition. At some point a semi-lengthy backstory does have to be explored.

[Swaggs]

I'm one of the rare folks that really liked TPM. The first time I saw it, I got bored by the pod racing and annoyed by Jar Jar, but since then, the pod race doesn't seem as long and I just don't focus my attention on Jar Jar when he is on screen, and I really enjoy the film.

I think I like it because I had not researched the back story a whole lot, so I enjoyed learning about the Jedi Council and seeing where different characters fit in (like Mace and Yoda). I also thought that the combination of Liam Neeson (who has been a favorite of mine since seeing Rob Roy) and Ewan McGregor was pretty much the best acting in the series. And, Darth Maul was a great villan and the Maul vs Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan was a great battle.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

1) Empire - You had the great Hoth battle, Vader was on the war path ("Apology accepted Captain Needa."), Luke and Vader battle, the score, Luke begins his training with Yoda, Han Solo having everything go wrong, and the final scene staring off into the galaxy.

And if that was all there was, it would have been the great movie everyone holds it up to be. It's the half-hour or so of mind-numbingly boring stuff that goes on between these bits that knocks the movie down for me.

I also rate TPM higher than others, simply because about 20 minutes in to my first viewing I went "oh, Lucas is telling backstory, ignore all the bad action bits and dialogue and focus on the movie". Sure, all of Padme's guards having grappling hooks built into their pistols was odd, and Annakin's solo attack on the Droid ships was off the charts, but you have to ignore the details and just listen to the story. That's kept me in good stead through Episodes I-III.

I actually rate Clones at the bottom, first because of the name, and second because the cheese scenes were way up there. It also has an issue in common with RotS: too many people just show up with no explanation. There's too much going on between TPM/AotC and AotC/RotS with little or no explanation. I'm still not quite sure who Dookoo is (it feels like there are about 5 minutes of cut scenes that would have given more background), much like Grievous just comes out of nowhere as a major player in RotS. I felt like TPM did a MUCH better job of letting you know who all the major players were.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

There's too much going on between TPM/AotC and AotC/RotS with little or no explanation. I'm still not quite sure who Dookoo is (it feels like there are about 5 minutes of cut scenes that would have given more background), much like Grievous just comes out of nowhere as a major player in RotS. I felt like TPM did a MUCH better job of letting you know who all the major players were.

Agreed. While I thought RotS was okay, I thought that it felt too rushed in parts and other parts dragged insanely. They could've cut the slower moments and put in a little exposition as to who these guys are.

When the Jedi were killed off, I didn't feel much because I didn't know who the hell they were.

Granted, this is how the original trilogy was. Boba Fett had what, three speaking lines in two movies? He also appeared from nowhere. I guess that's what the expanded Star Wars universe will do...expand on Grievous, Dooku, etc.

[Cuckoo]

Okay, so I came out of RotS thinking, "Yeah, that was pretty good, definitely the best of the three prequels and maybe close to Jedi." So I decided to watch the original three again this past weekend. And while Sith is still the best of the three prequels, it still doesn't live up to the originals, even Jedi. The gap between Jedi and Sith, for me, is bigger than I originally thought.

My ranking would go:

1. Empire
2. Star Wars (I'm sorry; I can't call it A New Hope. It's just Star Wars to me.)
3. Jedi
...
4. Sith
5. Clones
...
6. Phantom Menace

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Boba Fett had what, three speaking lines in two movies? He also appeared from nowhere. I guess that's what the expanded Star Wars universe will do...expand on Grievous, Dooku, etc.

Fett didn't appear out of nowhere. He was introduced along with the all the other random bouny hunters (Bosk, IG-88, etc.) Vader rounded up to track down Luke. He and the others fit nicely into the plot. He distinguished himself in the following ways:

1. Looked cool.

2. Vader spoke to him directly "And no disengations this time!"

3. He was the one who actually found Han and the others.

4. Vader seemed to show him a bit of respect, promising him that he would get paid in full even if Han did not survive the carbonation process.

That's all there was in Empire and it really was enough. It was well-crafted and subtle. Good stuff.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Fett didn't appear out of nowhere. He was introduced along with the all the other random bouny hunters (Bosk, IG-88, etc.) Vader rounded up to track down Luke. He and the others fit nicely into the plot. He distinguished himself in the following ways:

1. Looked cool.

2. Vader spoke to him directly "And no disengations this time!"

3. He was the one who actually found Han and the others.

4. Vader seemed to show him a bit of respect, promising him that he would get paid in full even if Han did not survive the carbonation process.

That's all there was in Empire and it really was enough. It was well-crafted and subtle. Good stuff.

It was 2 minutes of screen time for a guy who followed Han and let Vader do the heavy lifting before dying the ignoble death (no EU crap here) of getting knocked into the Sarlacc pit by a blind Han Solo. Yet is probably the fourth or fifth most popular character to the point where they made AotC a giant fanservice for Boba Fett fans.

SI

[judicial clerk]

But you can give Boba Fett credit for being a badass. Most people run when a jdei whips out his or her lightsaber and sarts clearing house. But when Luke busted out his light saber, Boba Fett actually flew to Luke to kick his ass. he almost had him too.

Luke sucks, he didn't even finish jedi training.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

But you can give Boba Fett credit for being a badass. Most people run when a jdei whips out his or her lightsaber and sarts clearing house. But when Luke busted out his light saber, Boba Fett actually flew to Luke to kick his ass. he almost had him too.

Luke sucks, he didn't even finish jedi training.

Or you can give Boba Fett credit for being a dumbass...let's see:

1. My dad attacks a Jedi but needs my help to escape (see AToC, Obi-Wan vs. Jango).
2. My dad attacks a Jedi with his flamethrower but doesn't kill him (see AToC, Mace vs. Jango, round 1).
3. My dad attacks a "red shirt" Jedi and kills him (see AToC, Unknown Jedi vs. Jango).
4. My dad attacks a Jedi and gets his head lopped off (see AToC, Mace vs. Jango, round 2).

Hmmm....1 out of 4.

Now, why would Boba attack Luke???

[judicial clerk]

Look, he attacked Luke because Luke is a pussy and a jedi school dropout. I mean, luke's big plan was about the worst thing I ever saw. I will hide my lightsaber inside a droid, and then hopefully that droid will infiltrate my opponents infrastructure in such a way that it will be present at my execution. Then, the droid can shoot my lightsaber to me... George Custer had better planning at Little Big Horn.

Now, if some real jedi like Darth vader wanted to get Han Solo from Jabba, he would have walked right in and demanded him and the first words out of Jabba's mouth would have been "get Solo down off the wall and load him into Mr. Vader's spaceship." Jabba laughed in Luke's face. Now, if jabba would have laughed in Vader's face then we would have sat through another one of those "Vader kills everybody in the village, including the children" scenes.

Also, you are not giving Boba Fett's dad the credit due. I would call his fight with obi-wan a draw. I would call his fight with the random jedi a win, and I will admit that his fight with Mace Windu counts as a loss. But Mace was a bad motherfucker (it even says it on his wallet.)

[Pyser]

thats one of the problems i have with the prequels.

they make luke look really bad. like the worst jedi ever. and it doesnt really give you any hope for the jedi he trains, since he is about 20% of what all of the jedis were before him. weak.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Now, if jabba would have laughed in Vader's face then we would have sat through another one of those "Vader kills everybody in the village, including the children" scenes.

It's younglings, dude. Younglings...

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Look, he attacked Luke because Luke is a pussy and a jedi school dropout. I mean, luke's big plan was about the worst thing I ever saw. I will hide my lightsaber inside a droid, and then hopefully that droid will infiltrate my opponents infrastructure in such a way that it will be present at my execution. Then, the droid can shoot my lightsaber to me... George Custer had better planning at Little Big Horn.

Yet another reason I dislike Jedi more and more. The plot is so contrived.

Ewoks beating the most feared miliary in the universe...with SPEARS!!! Even the Wookies had blasters. Then Luke's absurd plan for Jabba - where's the "aggressive negotiations" that the Jedi love? And what's the deal with the stupid huge sand beast and getting thrown in the pit? How about those forest speeders with the built in "jammers" that can jam their own side? Far-fetched, all of it. Jedi wasn't a great movie - just the conclusion to a great series with good special effects.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Look, he attacked Luke because Luke is a pussy and a jedi school dropout. I mean, luke's big plan was about the worst thing I ever saw. I will hide my lightsaber inside a droid, and then hopefully that droid will infiltrate my opponents infrastructure in such a way that it will be present at my execution. Then, the droid can shoot my lightsaber to me... George Custer had better planning at Little Big Horn.

Three of us watched eps 4-6 again this week and we were wondering the same thing about the plan in Jedi- wow, that seemed really lucky everything fell into place with lots of unlikely contingencies. Only thing we could figure was that he used his future-seeing abilities to set this up.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yet another reason I dislike Jedi more and more. The plot is so contrived.

Ewoks beating the most feared miliary in the universe...with SPEARS!!! Even the Wookies had blasters. Then Luke's absurd plan for Jabba - where's the "aggressive negotiations" that the Jedi love? And what's the deal with the stupid huge sand beast and getting thrown in the pit? How about those forest speeders with the built in "jammers" that can jam their own side? Far-fetched, all of it. Jedi wasn't a great movie - just the conclusion to a great series with good special effects.

(see post above) That was another thing we were wondering about. At this point, the empire army wasn't an army of clones- they're started recruiting from the backwoods planets for people who need food, right? So we're no longer talking "the best of the best"- there are some pretty average and below average in there. But the one thing they do have is overwhelming numbers so that counts for a lot.

As for Luke's aggressive negotations- he's still kindof a new jedi. Not exactly an academy to train in any more, either. Just a swamp in the armpit of the universe (a pain to get to in SWCCG, too). The elite organization consisted of an old muppet and a hiding old man in exile so there's going to be some dilution of the ranks. By that same token, Vader's gotten old and fat- no good fighters to fight and get better for 20 years. Luke's like some up and comer beating up an aging Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield now to win the crown- he's still the champ but not exactly a good champ as there's not really the contenders to fight him.

We also were mulling over the Sarlaac- how does a giant pit that only eats when Jabba throws prisoners in evolve in the first place?

Did I mention that two of the three of us have seen these movies a ton of times and just enjoyed MST3K'ing our way through it

SI

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yet another reason I dislike Jedi more and more. The plot is so contrived.

Ewoks beating the most feared miliary in the universe...with SPEARS!!! Even the Wookies had blasters. Then Luke's absurd plan for Jabba - where's the "aggressive negotiations" that the Jedi love? And what's the deal with the stupid huge sand beast and getting thrown in the pit? How about those forest speeders with the built in "jammers" that can jam their own side? Far-fetched, all of it. Jedi wasn't a great movie - just the conclusion to a great series with good special effects.

I agree... I watched Jedi again a few days after I saw Sith, and I think Sith is quite a bit better. I thought the whole Jabba plan was ridiculous (including the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy getting accidentally taken out by a blind man).

And then we get to the Rebel fleet planning for the big assault. Everybody is just kind of sitting around smiling and going "Oh sure, I'll do it." And why would one of the high ranking members of the Alliance like Leia even be allowed to take part of the ground assault? What could she really accomplish? And then Lando who just joined up with the Alliance and hasn't been a pilot with them before gets to lead the attack on the Death Star. I thought the movie really had to reach to keep the main characters together and keep them in active roles.

Finally, the Ewoks take out a whole legion of Stormtroopers and only one of them dies? I mean I think I could warm up to it more if it had seemed like an actual battle with both sides taking casualties. However, the way it was played out made it seem like a bunch of teddy bears playing around and killing well trained troops with ease. I did like the scene in the Emperor's throne room though, but as a whole Jedi is one of my least favorite movies of the entire six.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yet another reason I dislike Jedi more and more. The plot is so contrived.

Ewoks beating the most feared miliary in the universe...with SPEARS!!! Even the Wookies had blasters. Then Luke's absurd plan for Jabba - where's the "aggressive negotiations" that the Jedi love? And what's the deal with the stupid huge sand beast and getting thrown in the pit? How about those forest speeders with the built in "jammers" that can jam their own side? Far-fetched, all of it. Jedi wasn't a great movie - just the conclusion to a great series with good special effects.

Ewoks. Nothing good can be said of them. Still I'd take the freakin' Ewoks of stumblin', bumblin' CGI gungans any day.

I reckon we don't know the full extent of Luke's plan. I am sure he didn't expect to end up with the Rancor or captured and sent out to the Sarlaac pit, but he worked in a number of contingencies in case things went a little awry. They did and his jedi-ass figured it out. Good stuff all around. And besides, it worked, didn't it?

Jammers are jammers. They can be set to jam any frequency, even their own.

Jedi may not be a great movie, but it certainly is a good one.

The Jabba the Hutt intro is great stuff. Though I admit, I never did like Boba Fett's death. Quite lame.

The assault on the Death Star was a great space battle. There were some tactics involved, it was exciting, good effects. Solid all around.

The Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes are classics. Classics. Some of the best stuff in any of these movies.

Endor, up to the Ewoks, was all good. The Biker Scouts looked cool. The speeder bikes were cool. It was all good until the furry critters showed up.

The film will forever be marred by the Ewoks, but it still blows the socks, pants, and everything else off the crap served up in Eps 1-3.

Bah!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

I agree... I watched Jedi again a few days after I saw Sith, and I think Sith is quite a bit better. I thought the whole Jabba plan was ridiculous (including the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy getting accidentally taken out by a blind man).

And then we get to the Rebel fleet planning for the big assault. Everybody is just kind of sitting around smiling and going "Oh sure, I'll do it." And why would one of the high ranking members of the Alliance like Leia even be allowed to take part of the ground assault? What could she really accomplish? And then Lando who just joined up with the Alliance and hasn't been a pilot with them before gets to lead the attack on the Death Star. I thought the movie really had to reach to keep the main characters together and keep them in active roles.

Finally, the Ewoks take out a whole legion of Stormtroopers and only one of them dies? I mean I think I could warm up to it more if it had seemed like an actual battle with both sides taking casualties. However, the way it was played out made it seem like a bunch of teddy bears playing around and killing well trained troops with ease. I did like the scene in the Emperor's throne room though, but as a whole Jedi is one of my least favorite movies of the entire six.

Lando was General Calrissian. I don't know how or why he was a general, but he was. Makes sense he leads the assault.

Princess Leia gets to go wherever she wants. She's a princess. She wants to go with Han, who's gonna say no? What can she accomplish? Oh. That was sexualist!

We only saw one ewok die. It was for dramatic purposes. I am sure more than one ewok died. It was just all off screen.

Oh, as for the Sarlaac. It had tentacles. I am sure it just sat around, waiting for little desert creatures to come by and then it would ensare them in its tenetacles and pull things down into it's gaping, toothfilled maw...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Oh, as for the Sarlaac. It had tentacles. I am sure it just sat around, waiting for little desert creatures to come by and then it would ensare them in its tenetacles and pull things down into it's gaping, toothfilled maw...

We were joking about random bantha herds just falling in

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

We were joking about random bantha herds just falling in

SI

Dude, exactly. It's not like the sarlaac has to eat all that much. How much energy can the thing expend just sitting there. One bantha, even a little one, and the sarlaac is set for months I reckon.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dude, exactly. It's not like the sarlaac has to eat all that much. How much energy can the thing expend just sitting there. One bantha, even a little one, and the sarlaac is set for months I reckon.

Well, bear in mind - it's still digesting every prisoner Jabba's thrown it for the last 999 years. :-D

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dude, exactly. It's not like the sarlaac has to eat all that much. How much energy can the thing expend just sitting there. One bantha, even a little one, and the sarlaac is set for months I reckon.

Well if it takes a thousands years to digest a person imagine how long it could last with a bantha.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Well if it takes a thousands years to digest a person imagine how long it could last with a bantha.

Good point. You all see, the sarlaac makes perfect sense. It fits well into the eco-system of Tatooine.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's younglings, dude. Younglings...

Not the sand people in the village, they were just children.

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Lando was General Calrissian. I don't know how or why he was a general, but he was. Makes sense he leads the assault.

His tank really doesn't matter. If he got to lead the attack because he was a general then why was he even a general in the first place based on his rank and experience? It was still just a corny way to keep the character in the spot light.

Princess Leia gets to go wherever she wants. She's a princess. She wants to go with Han, who's gonna say no? What can she accomplish? Oh. That was sexualist!

What I'm saying is it strikes me as situation as if Dick Cheney wanted to lead the assault on Baghdad and was allowed. It just doesn't doesn't make sense considering his role and abilities. It's not being sexist to say Leia wasn't a soldier.

We only saw one ewok die. It was for dramatic purposes. I am sure more than one ewok died. It was just all off screen.

And I'm saying that would have made it a better battle sequence to me. As it was it didn't even seem like a battle.

[ice4277]

The longer this thread gets, the more I realize I am nowhere near as much of a Star Wars dork as I thought I was.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

His tank really doesn't matter. If he got to lead the attack because he was a general then why was he even a general in the first place based on his rank and experience? It was still just a corny way to keep the character in the spot light.

What I'm saying is it strikes me as situation as if Dick Cheney wanted to lead the assault on Baghdad and was allowed. It just doesn't doesn't make sense considering his role and abilities. It's not being sexist to say Leia wasn't a soldier.

And I'm saying that would have made it a better battle sequence to me. As it was it didn't even seem like a battle.

I don't know if the younglings would have been too happy watching scores of teddy bears dying. The emotional scars would run deep. A generation ruined.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

His tank really doesn't matter. If he got to lead the attack because he was a general then why was he even a general in the first place based on his rank and experience? It was still just a corny way to keep the character in the spot light.

Wasn't Lando the leader of the Cloud City in Bespin, and that he was a pilot acquaintance of Han Solo, and the old fogey probably got a big commendation for saving Leia and Luke back in Bespin. Perhaps that would have been enough to give him the rank, considering the Rebels were lacking true leaders.

[Wolfpack]

Something else that's interesting is that both Solo and Lando are made generals, but Luke (you know, the chap who blew up the Death Star, assisted in the death of the Emperor, turned Vader back to the good side, etc.) is only ranked as a commander, which is several rungs below admiral (assuming he has a naval designation).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Wasn't Lando the leader of the Cloud City in Bespin, and that he was a pilot acquaintance of Han Solo, and the old fogey probably got a big commendation for saving Leia and Luke back in Bespin. Perhaps that would have been enough to give him the rank, considering the Rebels were lacking true leaders.

I want to say they were old gambling buddies and Han won the Falcon from him.

SI

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

His tank really doesn't matter. If he got to lead the attack because he was a general then why was he even a general in the first place based on his rank and experience? It was still just a corny way to keep the character in the spot light.

The Alliance made him a general based on his manoevers at the Battle of Tanaab. Duh.

Luke's plan to rescue Han progressed as he had forseen it in the force. The force tells you to do something, how can you argue? It was a lot like the plans that the bad guys come up with in James Bond films except this one worked, damn it.

I understand why people have problems with the Ewoks. But the symbolism of the Ewoks was that a poorly equipped force defending its homeland can be more powerful than a better equiped force fighting on foreign soil. For examples, see the Revolutionary War or the Vietnam War or go rent "Braveheart."

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Ewoks. Nothing good can be said of them. Still I'd take the freakin' Ewoks of stumblin', bumblin' CGI gungans any day.

I reckon we don't know the full extent of Luke's plan. I am sure he didn't expect to end up with the Rancor or captured and sent out to the Sarlaac pit, but he worked in a number of contingencies in case things went a little awry. They did and his jedi-ass figured it out. Good stuff all around. And besides, it worked, didn't it?

Jammers are jammers. They can be set to jam any frequency, even their own.

Jedi may not be a great movie, but it certainly is a good one.

The Jabba the Hutt intro is great stuff. Though I admit, I never did like Boba Fett's death. Quite lame.

The assault on the Death Star was a great space battle. There were some tactics involved, it was exciting, good effects. Solid all around.

The Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes are classics. Classics. Some of the best stuff in any of these movies.

Endor, up to the Ewoks, was all good. The Biker Scouts looked cool. The speeder bikes were cool. It was all good until the furry critters showed up.

The film will forever be marred by the Ewoks, but it still blows the socks, pants, and everything else off the crap served up in Eps 1-3.

Bah!

A friend and I often debate the intelligence of the plan to rescue Han from Jabba's palace. Why send Leia in first, alone?

Also, that must have been one very, very rough night for Leia... if you catch my drift.

[TazFTW]

But Leia's not the first one in. Lando is, followed by the droids, then bounty hunter Leia and Chewie.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

But Leia's not the first one in. Lando is, followed by the droids, then bounty hunter Leia and Chewie.

Well, she definitely spends the night there with Jabba licking her, dressing her in skanky clothes, and probably having all kinds of other ungodly things happening to her.

[TazFTW]

Well, guess she had to cowboy up.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

A friend and I often debate the intelligence of the plan to rescue Han from Jabba's palace. Why send Leia in first, alone?

Also, that must have been one very, very rough night for Leia... if you catch my drift.

I always thought Leia was alone in trying to save Han, and when THAT failed, Luke finally came in to save the day. I don't think Luke would willingly use his sister as some sort of 'bait'. Leia probably went on her own accord, and Luke came trailing in with Lando when everything went haywire.

But, I would've loved a CG generated Rancor!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

And besides, it worked, didn't it?

That has to be the worst justification for a plan in a movie, EVER! Yeah, it worked because Luke was the good guy and it had to work! That doesn't make it a good plan .

Though I'd like to think that Luke would have done something else Force-like to get out of the situation, if it came to that.

And having Leia as a ground trooper really is silly, but hey, she looks better than Mon Mothma, I guess.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

But, I would've loved a CG generated Rancor!

You know, I always feel sorry for the Rancor trainer in that scene

SI

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Granted, this is how the original trilogy was. Boba Fett had what, three speaking lines in two movies? He also appeared from nowhere.

I'll chime in on the "but we knew enough about Fett" side of this argument. He was introduced as a bounty hunter, and that was pretty much all you needed to know. I still have no idea who Count Dookoo is, where he came from, and why he was in such a high position. Ditto for Grievous. Had Grievous just been some random droid general, fine, but why all the hacking and coughing and part-human/part-droid stuff? Just WAY too many questions, as opposed to Fett who was a bounty hunter with a mysterious background.

And we skip from AotC where the droid army has been mostly beaten to CORUSCANT being under a major assault? There's a lot of story left untold there. The original three just didn't leave huge gaps like that between movies.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Obi Wan v. Vader? WTF?! Two old fogeys swinging slowly at each other? Substance? Hey, lets fight again... kill me and I'll be a ghost and beat you that way. Riiiiight.

For a good lightsaber fight, style is more important than 'substance', whatever 'substance' is supposed to mean.

Has your dislike of this movie blinded you to the greatness of the Anakin v. Obi Wan fight? It was fast and furious and if Obi Wan's crying out "You were my brother" didn't touch you, then you have no soul .

The "You've lost, I have the higher ground" is perfect, especially when juxtaposed with the Yoda v. Palpatine fight. Yoda knows he cannot win and leaves to fight another day. Obi Wan tells Anakin that Anakin cannot win, but he is too arrogant and tries the jump... and gets cut at the knees. Very skillful juxtaposition in those last two fights in RotS.

Yup. I just saw it, and was absolutely amazed at the whole thing - it was well done. That last scene, where Obi-wan is walking away as Anakin burns- its brutal - and yet neccessary. and I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with HA that McGregor was amazing- the "you were the chosen one!" bit.

And although Natalie Portman wasn't great - the one line "So This is how liberty dies- to thunderous appluase" was poignant - makes sense.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Well, the way it happened was the only way to tie up some of the loose ends leading into ANH... Vader has to survive, but be horribly mangled, and Obi-Wan has to somehow obtain his lightsaber to give to Luke later on.

I think the earlier theory, that Obi-Wan was holding back for most of the fight, is probably true. I don't think he really wanted to kill Anakin.

Yeah- I think Obi-Wan just can't do that - he tried to warn him off with the "I have the high ground" bit - and the swipe he does take is one to end the battle - not to kill him. Perhaps he knows that killing Anakin then would be too little, too late - and would be as a result of anger.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

And we skip from AotC where the droid army has been mostly beaten to CORUSCANT being under a major assault? There's a lot of story left untold there. The original three just didn't leave huge gaps like that between movies.

Yes, because between Star Wars where the Death Star is destroyed and it looks like the tide is turning for the New Repulic and The Empire Strikes Back where the Rebels are again on their heels isn't a huge gap. Check out the intro to Episode V:

It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has
been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from
their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy.
Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters
led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote
ice world of Hoth.
The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker,
has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of
space...

[Crapshoot]

Rankings:

1. ESB
2. A New Hope/ Sith
4. Return of the Jedi
5. CLones
6. TPM

I actually didnt dislike Clones- I thought it was a decent movie, and set the chains moving as they should. I thought Sith's portrayal of a man's downfall was eerie- and though I went home and watched 4 again last night, things made sense.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Yes, because between Star Wars where the Death Star is destroyed and it looks like the tide is turning for the New Repulic and The Empire Strikes Back where the Rebels are again on their heels isn't a huge gap. Check out the intro to Episode V:

It's not that huge a gap at all.

Sure the Death Star was taken down, but the Empire still had their entire fleet. Even as a wee-little child I was never once confused or lost when watching the movie. I was often confused and lost when watching these new ones.

A friend of mine explained the political intruige set up in Eps I & II to me before we saw Ep III. It sort of made sense and sounded kind of cool, but I never got any of it from watching the movies. I think he might have gleemed some of it from those cartoons.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's not that huge a gap at all.

Sure the Death Star was taken down, but the Empire still had their entire fleet. Even as a wee-little child I was never once confused or lost when watching the movie. I was often confused and lost when watching these new ones.

A friend of mine explained the political intruige set up in Eps I & II to me before we saw Ep III. It sort of made sense and sounded kind of cool, but I never got any of it from watching the movies. I think he might have gleemed some of it from those cartoons.

What's your definition of a "gap"? I look at it like a gap in time. Obviously the Empire didn't come right away and wipe out Yavin and then the Rebels relocated to Hoth (which looked to be inhabited for a while by our heroes).

Are you serious you didn't get the political intrigue from watching the movies?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

What's your definition of a "gap"? I look at it like a gap in time. Obviously the Empire didn't come right away and wipe out Yavin and then the Rebels relocated to Hoth (which looked to be inhabited for a while by our heroes).

Are you serious you didn't get the political intrigue from watching the movies?

I got the basics of the intruige, but not all the fine details. I think has to do with the fact that while I saw Ep I four times in the theater, I never watched it again after the theatrical release. I only saw Ep II once. I reckon if I went back and re-watched them all and tried to figure out how all the pieces fit together (the Trade Federation, Dooku, the clones, etc.) it wouldn't be that hard. The way my friend described it, and he was right, it sounded pretty decent. The execution of the plots and intruige on screen, however, were so clumsy and poorly executed they just never had the appropriate impact/effect.

Oh yeah, as for my definition of "gap" it's not a temporal one. A lot of time can pass, but if nothing really happens that is crucial to the plot, then it doesn't matter. When I talk about "gaps" I mean in the story and plot. Greivous and Dooku pretty much appear out of nowhere. There is little to no background about either of these rather prominent characters. I hear that Greivous' background and what not is explained in the cartoons, but that doesn't really justify his sudden appearance in the movies. It would be like Boba Fett just sort of showing up in Slave I in the Star Destoryer's garbage release without ever having that initial scene where Vader hires all those bounty hunters to track down Luke.

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I got the basics of the intruige, but not all the fine details. I think has to do with the fact that while I saw Ep I four times in the theater, I never watched it again after the theatrical release. I only saw Ep II once. I reckon if I went back and re-watched them all and tried to figure out how all the pieces fit together (the Trade Federation, Dooku, the clones, etc.) it wouldn't be that hard. The way my friend described it, and he was right, it sounded pretty decent. The execution of the plots and intruige on screen, however, were so clumsy and poorly executed they just never had the appropriate impact/effect.

Oh yeah, as for my definition of "gap" it's not a temporal one. A lot of time can pass, but if nothing really happens that is crucial to the plot, then it doesn't matter. When I talk about "gaps" I mean in the story and plot. Greivous and Dooku pretty much appear out of nowhere. There is little to no background about either of these rather prominent characters. I hear that Greivous' background and what not is explained in the cartoons, but that doesn't really justify his sudden appearance in the movies. It would be like Boba Fett just sort of showing up in Slave I in the Star Destoryer's garbage release without ever having that initial scene where Vader hires all those bounty hunters to track down Luke.

What's there to know? Greivous is the droid general. He leads the droid army. Mace Windu crushed his chest at the very, very end of the cartoon and that is why he coughs. There really isn't much to tell about him. It is pretty obvious who he is and what his role is in the movie. Wanting his entire backstory would be like wanting ANH to give Tarkin's entire backstory. Dooku was a disgruntled Jedi who Palpatine found to replace Darth Maul. I really don't see what you want to know about them...