2005 NFL Draft Thread

[Abe Sargent]

Dola -

Just checked ESPN/Scouts Inc for some of my alma mater players left, and I noticed that Clarett is the ONLY PLAYER IN THE DRAFT with four flags. 7 or 8 players have three flags, and you figure they'll fall. Players with two flags have fallen. Yet mysteriously, Denver takes a guy with four flags in the third.

-Anxiety

[Danny]

Here is my review of the Raiders draft thus far.

23. Fabian Washington DB, Nebraska

Physically, this guy is very similar to the recently departed Philip Buchanan, except this guy is faster. He ran under 4.3 and you know Al Davis loves speed. He is only average size, which will probably limit him from matching up with certain wide receivers like Terrell Owens. The biggest difference from Buchanan; however, is his personality. Washington is known as a hard worker and a good team player. Unlike Buchanan, Washington will actually work on his flaws. I know some may disagree, but I think the new cornerback rules give extra value to athletic corners who are fast. Since they can no longer be physical with the receiver, recovery speed will be critical. Interesting tidbit is that Washington played for ex Raiders coach Bill Callahan at Nebraska. Overall, I really like this pick.

38. Stanford Routt DB, Houston

Stanford is the most physically impressive cornerback in the draft. He has speed, size and strength. The problem is he is very raw and at this point is more of a good athlete than a good football player. When I first saw this pick, I thought it was a major reach. On second look, according to various sources, it seems that at least a few other teams had him on their second round board. Still, I was hoping for an outside linebacker at this spot and admittedly, these project corners usually don't work out well. The Great Blue North Draft Report said this was the best pick of the second round. While I certainly dont feel that way and would have preferred a different position, I am much happier than I was when I first heard his name called. I believe my words were, "who the hell is that and why did we just take another cornerback".

69 Andrew Walter QB, Arizona State

Walter is big, and strong with a rocket arm. Out of all of the quarterbacks in this draft, he is not the most talented, but he is the best fit for the Raiders offense. I often think that is overlooked by many. I realize coaching staffs change and schemes change, but I have a feeling that with the Raiders core of receivers, that a big play style of offense is here for a while. Around the middle of the 2004 college season, Walter was seen as a better prospect than Aaron Rodgers or Alex Smith. He also played in a pro style offense at Arizona State. That offense should translate to the pros better than Alex Smiths or Aaron Rodgers.

78 Kirk Morrison LB, San Diego State

I honestly didn’t know a whole lot about this guy before today. After some research, this guy is on the small side, but plays with passion, and intelligence. He also is known as one of, if not the best tackler in the draft. His main weakness is his pass coverage. Still, I see a lot of similarity between Morrison and Zach Thomas as rookies. This guy also is from Oakland and has been a Raiders fan his whole life, so that certainly doesn’t hurt.

The good- I am very pleased with the Raiders selections of Washington, Walter and Morrison. They addressed three needs with those picks and got some good football players.

The bad- I would have preferred the Raiders address their need for an OLB or pass rusher at #38. I also do not like that we gave up our 4th rounder in a trade. We are now without a 4th or 5th round pick.

The ugly- Mel Kiper is fine; he at least brings something to the table with his knowledge of the college players. The players that were there bring a different viewpoint which is also fine. Get everyone else off of there. Berman, goodbye. Mortenson, goodbye, Salisbury steak, goodbye, Merrill Hodge, goodbye. It would be nice if they had a panel of commentators who as each pick is made, actually commented and showed some insight into that pick. Like say for example, what else the team has at that positon, possible roles that player might fill for his new team, how that player fits into the teams defensive/offensive scheme and might help improve that particular unit, or how he won’t do any of those things. You know, instead of breaking down Alex Smith taking a dump and giving their thoughts on what he had for lunch the previous day.

[Ragone]

Simply put.. Berman needs to give it up.. he looked lost.. disinterested.. and down right whiny when he was begging for aaron rodgers to be picked.. The nickname schtick is tired.. worn out.. and just not funny anymore

Torry Holt was a freaking joke "I like Maurice Clarett"

Somebody else"why?

Holt"Umm"

[Francis_Cole]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Nugent was a horrible pick, way to early for a kicker to go. He shouldn't have even been considered for 2 more picks.




That said, I think Marcus Johnson should be solid for the Vikes. 320 pound guard with a mean streak, should fit in well replacing Dixon. Fox has a chance to catch on at safety if he can be more consistant than Willie Offord. Was solid at OSU, will be interesting to see if he can transfer that to the pro level.

Not sure if you mean 2 more picks as in the 4th round or 2 more picks as in the next 2 picks in the 2nd round.
Nugent wouldn't have even been still there for our 2nd #2 rnd pick so there was no way he was still going to be there in the 4th round.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Torry Holt was a freaking joke "I like Maurice Clarett"

Somebody else"why?

Holt"Umm"

Holt came off as a total moron at this juncture. Someone did ask "why?" and he was like "Because of all he's been through." Excuse me? What the fuck has he been through that he didn't put himself through? And worst of all he's never seemed even slightly apologetic about the things he's done.

There's just no possible way I can root for Clarett. I could see giving him one last chance, but that shit he pulled at the combine was the final straw for me. There couldn't possibly be more red flags on a guy, he's practically begging to not be drafted, and yet he goes at the end of the third round. Simply amazing.

There's a huge difference between guys like Clarett who have talked a lot about putting the past behind them, and guys like Adrian McPherson who have.

[Passacaglia]

Holt also had no idea what incognito means.

[Galaril]

Being a Titans fan I can't believe the way they have fucked up there draft. They select PacMan Jones over Rolle or Mike Williams Then they pass up a couple of good tackles that are ready to start to select OT Roos from Eastern Washington. They did reach for a pair of WR in the 3rd: Courtney Roby WR INDIANA and Brandon Jones ,Oklahoma. Well they got 3 4th rounders and a 5th so there is still hope.

[Francis_Cole]

So am I the first person to ask when an updated FOF roster comes out with the new rookies?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Since you are using Scouts Inc data, let's take a look at other RBs still available compared to Mo. Let's start with their overall ranking:

Ciatrick Fason, Florida: 79
Kay-Jay Harris, WVU: 76
Marion Barber III, Minnesota: 72
Good Ol Mo', Not OSU Anymore: 44

Not even close. This is where I said Mo looks good, but not great. Take a look at the same strengths for these three players:


Fason:

Has the size and overall physical tools to become extremely productive as a "between the tackles" runner. Shows good initial burst to and through the hole. Makes sharp cuts when he gets through the LOS and does a good job of bouncing runs to the outside. Shows good COD skills and the ability to hit the cutback with a quick plan-and-drive. Has adequate-to-good top end speed. Shows the potential to turn the corner in the NFL. More of a cut-and-burst runner that shows good vision in the open field and will make good cuts against the grain. Shows a bit of a second gear but won't run away from faster DB's. Is an excellent receiver out of the backfield. Still has room to improve in terms of recognition skills, but is a smooth route runner with excellent hands. Snatches the ball while on the run and also shows the ability to adjust to the poorly thrown ball. Has a lot of upside in this area. Had some nicks as a junior but has never missed a full game because of injury. Will need to do a better job of running with pad-level in order to protect his body in the NFL. However, he doesn't have a major injury to speak of and he also only had 311 carries in three collegiate seasons.


Kay Jay:

Is a raw talent who showed flashes. Has loads of upside if he continues to develop. Has a very good combination of size and speed. Has good initial burst, hits the hole hard and can be a load to take down when he runs with good pad level. Is as powerful as it gets when he runs low and delivers the blow. Is a good athlete for his size. Has a terrific vertical jump for his size. Is a tough runner with good initial power. Has decent hands as a receiver and is a big weapon when he gets the ball in space in the passing game. Also has the size and strength to become a good pass blocker if his awareness and angles improve.


Marion:

He possesses adequate size and adequate-to-good straight-line speed. He has the lower body strength to pick up yards after contact when he runs with leverage. Shows good burst to the line of scrimmage and adequate speed in the open field. Has the ability to change directions quickly and he is capable of making the first defender miss. Rarely drops passes that he should catch and has a good feel as a dump-off receiver that stays with his quarterback in the passing game. He has experience returning kickoffs as well as punts.


So, if you are the Denver GM, you say that Denvers wants a RB with good short yardage skills, a good blocker, and the ability to hit the hole. Fason looks like your man, plus Fason has speed, good hands, no previous injury concerns, the ability to turn corners, and so forth. Harris is a project but all three of his strengths are in alignment with what you what. Good blocker, good at hitting holes, and tough to bring down earily. Marion only seems to have some of the skills that you want, but he brings other things to the table, like special teams.

Therefore, of the top three RBs still on the board, both give Denver what you claim they need, but have many more skills, better upside, and aren't as much of a risk.

Incidentally, you may have noticed that I listed more issues than just the character one. There's injury questions. There's only one season of evaluation. There's been a lot of time between that year and now. There is the whole issue with a lousy combine. There are a lot of issues beyond character, although character is arguably enough of an issue to pass.

Even if Dallas is crazy enough to pull the Clarrett trigger, why should Denver play the game. Suppose that Denver *really* likes Mo. He has a much lower grade than three, and you don't get value by selecting him in the third round. If Dallas or another team really drafted him in the fourth, then they reached to do it, and you can take another RB. Alternatively, you could select a real RB, one who did well at the combine, one we've seen play in the past couple of years, etc. Of course, the whole "going in the fourth round" could be the typical April BS from scouts, agents, GMs, etc, in which case Denver got played.

BTW, I don't believe that Denver's future is ruined, I just believe that this was an amazingly stupid pick.

Either Denver got played, or they drafted a RB when other RBs fit their need more, had more upside, and less risk. Neither is an appealing proposition for them.



-Anxiety

OK, so what was Terrel Davis and his scouts rating? Or Olandis Gary? What about Mike Anderson?

Asking why Denver fell into the game with Dallas isn't asking the right question. And everyone keeps bringing up value. . . the value isn't where you think he could/should be picked. The value will come based on how he plays as a Denver Bronco.

If Denver thinks Mo is a perfect fit for their system and that he'll become a star player, why would they say "gee, we think we are getting first round value because everyone else is a bunch morons and we know we won't have a chance to pick him again, so lets pick another RB who is lower on our draft board"

I'm not saying I agree with the thought, but I am saying with Denvers track record with running backs, people should be VERY careful about overdoing it with the criticism. Until they screw up an RB pick, the mood SHOULD be to say "I disagree with the pick, but we'll see what happens" Not "wow, they are a bunch of idiots"

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

He would have been gone most likely by the Jets second 2nd round pick. Their kicking woes have been the stuff of legend, from John Hall to last year... it's been a disgrace. They had Nugent last year and they beat the Steelers. Simple as that.

So, IMO, a GREAT pick. Look at what Vinateri means to the Pats. I'm sure he's been more valuable than a few 2nd round picks they've made in the past.

I would not say flat out the Jets beat the Steelers if they had Nugent last season. What if this guy can't take the pressure? It doesn happen.

Green Bay selected the "best" punter in the draft last year in the 3rd round, and then he couldn't kick for shit once they got to training camp....choke.

[Thomkal]

Well I have to say my beloved Cardinals have actually had a good draft to this point. I would have liked them to do the Travis Henry trade, but Arrington seems to be in a similar mold to him. They seemed to pick up players that had dropped a bit from their projections, and in all four cases filled positions of need rather than yet another WR.

I really hope they take a QB with their next pick though.

As for Jets drafting a kicker with their first pick in the draft. Seems crazy, but if they really thought he was heads and shoulders above any kicker in the draft as many experts seem to think, and its rumored the Vikes are going to take him two picks later, how can you not take him if its that big a need for you? Now it can certainly be debated whether they could have filled that need through free agency, but given what happened with their kicking game last season, who can really blame them for taking Nugent? Plus they still had a second pick in that round to draft what was perceived as their #1 need- A Cornerback. Of course they will be the laughing stock of the league if Nugent busts.

Rodgers-Hated seeing him go through all that waiting, but who really after SF had that much of a pressing need for a QB, especially one with some questions about him? I think he ended up in a great spot in GB since Favre is his favorite player. Hope it works out for him. And I like Berman pulling for him to be drafted by GB. Because the draft was pretty darn boring with the commentary and almost no trades to that point.

I'm not sure how Torry Holt ended up being a commentator, but they need to find someone else next year. Tom Jackson wasn't available? I liked Corey Chavious last year, and I think he might have done a better job. I really have liked Jon Jansen the past couple years, though this year I thought he was too "nice" in his comments on the Redskins. Drafting a QB in the first round shows no confidence in your current QB (in this situation, not others like GB) no matter what your coaches are saying. Can't blame him for not wanting to create waves in the locker room though I guess.

Clarett-Well if there was ever a place he could be a good fit it was Denver. If the rumors were true about Dallas being interested in taking him in the fourth, and you have him that highly rated over the other RB's available at that point, then I guess I can understand why he was taken then. Just not too thrilled that he was taken this high given the headaches he brought on all by him self.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If Denver thinks Mo is a perfect fit for their system and that he'll become a star player, why would they say "gee, we think we are getting first round value because everyone else is a bunch morons and we know we won't have a chance to pick him again, so lets pick another RB who is lower on our draft board"

I think this is the key. The value the team places on a guy and their chance to get him. I have no problem with Denver taking him, because they rated him high enough in their minds.

Just like I currently have no problem with the Packers taking Rodgers, because they felt he was a great value even though I have heard reports that some teams may have had Campbell rated higher. Or the first of the Packers second round picks has been labeled a reach, big deal. The team likes the guy, then they like him. A few years down the road, we will know how good/bad a pick really is.

[General Mike]

Anybody want to have a draft chat today?

[General Mike]

I like the Orton pick for Da Bears

[rjolley]

With their quarterback play behind Grossman last year and without signing Warner, I think Orton is a good pick. He should be better than Quinn and the rest.

[Cuckoo]

As one of the resident Cowboys fans, I refuse to believe they would have selected Clarett in the fourth round. That said, I'm darn glad I didn't have to find out for sure.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Green Bay selected the "best" punter in the draft last year in the 3rd round, and then he couldn't kick for shit once they got to training camp....choke.

Remember Brett Conway? There was a brilliant pick...

[Cuckoo]

Okay, some of you Minnesota fans tell me about Marion Barber.

[General Mike]

I can't complain about Brandon Jacobs

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by -Mojo Jojo-

Remember Brett Conway? There was a brilliant pick...

Yeah, injured his first year. Wasn't he also the guy who got diagnosed with nut cancer his rookie year too? Or was that another Packer kicker?

[cthomer5000]

I'm waiting to see where McPherson and Sproles go. Those are the two guys I'm really watching for.

[Arles]

Another good pick for Arizona - OG Brown. They've had probably the best overall draft to this point given the value at each pick and the needs they've addressed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Arles

Another good pick for Arizona - OG Brown. They've had probably the best overall draft to this point given the value at each pick and the needs they've addressed.

Agreed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ah... Crap-honso Thorpe. I do love that name.

[JeeberD]

Marion Barber III to the Cowboys. Nice!

[Cringer]

Another safety for the Packers. Sounds like he is much better in man coverage then zone to me. Good tackler, that is nice.

Now lets get a couple d-line guys with these next two 4th rd picks. Or one d-lineman and a guard. Please.....

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

I think the 49ers did ok on day one. They got the QB that most expected them to get, and a RB to hopefully take some of the pressure off Barlow. In the 2nd and 4th rounds they beefed up on the OL, providing badly needed depth after watching their QBs take an awful pounding last season. I like the selection of Baas in particular, since he can play C and Newberry has had trouble staying healthy.

They still have plenty of needs, including NT (if they follow through on their plan to play a 3-4), WR, CB and S.

I'm okay with the picks as well. Can't grade it any higher than a B, I'd think.

I was never really high on Smith. From the end of the college season, I had the QBs rated: Leinart, Rodgers, Smith. When it seemed like the Niners were set on Rodgers, I was very happy, as to me it seemed like Smith was missing something.

But once it was clear that if the Niners didn't take Rodgers, he would fall far in the draft, I got concerned. Certainly, there had to be something that all the teams interested in Smith (MIA, CLE, TB) didn't like about Rodgers. So I saw taking Smith as justified at that point, even though I would have preferred taking Edwards and addressing the QB need in round 2.

In fact, if in hindsight I had the opportunity offered to me, I would swap the Niners first 3 picks with Cleveland's, with no extra compensation. I love Edwards, Brodney Pool (S, Oklahoma) was a guy projected to go to the Niners with the 1st pick in the 2nd round, and seemed to be someone who could step right in to the FS position and start from Day 1. Baas seems like a nice center prospect (I believe it was Scouts who called him the #1 center in the draft), but FS is much more of a need. Charlie Frye was a complete steal for Cleveland in the 3rd round. I think he could be a very good QB in the league. Frank Gore is a nice pick on potential (and value as well...many thought he would go early 2nd), but again, I feel like there were more pressing needs.

CAUTION: WILD SPECULATION AHEAD. FEEL FREE TO CALL ME INSANE.

I was just thinking of the following scenario. I'd like to hear if anybody thought something like this could possibly happen.

Niners surprise people and take Braylon Edwards #1, saying that they believe they can fill their QB needs throughout the rest of Day 1. Miami then takes Smith at #2. TB swaps with Cleveland who takes Ronnie Brown. Chicago sticks with Benson. Cleveland takes Mike Williams. The rest of the picks would probably be very similar (Cadillac still available, Williams gone), and since no one expected Williams to go to Detroit anyway, I feel that this is pretty safe.

...

Fast forward to Dallas at #20 overall. They have already selected one DE with the #11 pick, and would like to further address the defensive side of the ball. They feel that there a lot of solid options there. But then they get a call from...the San Francisco 49ers. To drop down 13 spots to the 1st pick of Round 2 (and avoid paying more first round money), and Parcells being a guy who likes extra picks, what could it cost? A 2006 2nd rounder, as well as maybe a 4th round pick this year? I don't see the cost being that astronomical where the Niners wouldn't pay it, and they would then be able to select one Aaron Rodgers. If you walk out of day 1 with your QB and WR of the future, as well as a solid defensive player in the 3rd round, you should be pretty damn happy if you're only sacrificing next year's 2nd round pick.

So is that insane? Not enough value going back to Dallas?

[Cringer]

15 116 Kansas City Thorpe, Craphonso WR 6-1 188 Florida State

How much "crap" did this guy get growing up from other kids?

[Young Drachma]

LeFors goes to Carolina. I think that's a great value pick for them, here. Especially with most saying he's got the tools to be a decent NFL QB, save for his size.

Especially with this lack of depth at the position, this helps them a lot.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

LeFors goes to Carolina. I think that's a great value pick for them, here. Especially with most saying he's got the tools to be a decent NFL QB, save for his size.

Especially with this lack of depth at the position, this helps them a lot.

pffft! Chris Weinke is all the depth a team needs.

[Cringer]

dola-

holy cow, Lefors whole family is deaf?

And his dad says he has never looked at him as a hearing person.

I guess you could have your music as loud as you wanted growing up there....

[Celeval]

Orton by the Bears is a good pick.

[General Mike]

LeFors is the feel good story of the milennium.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Another safety for the Packers. Sounds like he is much better in man coverage then zone to me. Good tackler, that is nice.

Now lets get a couple d-line guys with these next two 4th rd picks. Or one d-lineman and a guard. Please.....

I'm hoping for Antaj Hawthorne...

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by -Mojo Jojo-

I'm hoping for Antaj Hawthorne...

Nope. Brady Poppinga. DE/OLB. Wonder wjere they project him playing? Guy is almost 26 already too.....

Looks like pick 126 was passed? WTF?

edit: ah traded. NFL.com listed it as passed at first. 126 must be the most traded pick in the draft. Philly takes it and they are now the 6th team to have that pick.

[TazFTW]

Wow, the Cowboys have added Marion Barber III and Chris Canty in the 4th round.


Very nice draft so far for the 'boys.

[edit]This is how they got Philly's pick

Cowboys-Eagles
Cowboys get: Philadelphia's fourth-round pick (No. 132) and selected DE Chris Canty, and a sixth-round pick in 2006 Eagles get: Dallas' fifth-round pick (No. 148) and fourth-round pick in 2006.

[cthomer5000]

Sproles to the Chargers... I like it. Probably will assume the kick return duties Dwight was handling and can provide depth.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Another safety for the Packers. Sounds like he is much better in man coverage then zone to me. Good tackler, that is nice.

Has great speed and looks like a special teams monster as well.

Nope. Brady Poppinga. DE/OLB. Wonder wjere they project him playing? Guy is almost 26 already too.....

He's a pure pass rusher. Ran a 4.7 40 in the combine which is great speed for a guy at 6-3, 260.

[Arles]

Here's the trade

Eagles get: Green Bay's fourth-round pick (No. 126) and selected T Todd Herremans.
Packers get: Philadelphia's fifth-round pick (No. 167), sixth-round (No. 175), seventh-round (No. 245).

[Bearcat729]

Well Luke McCown is out of Cleveland for the Buc's 6th round pick

[TazFTW]

Dan Orlovsky got picked up by the Lions. Harrington is doomed. DOOMED!

[Arles]

I really like the Julius Coston pick for GB. He has very good quickness for his size (6-3, 310, 5.15 40) and seems to fit GB's scheme well. Here's something on his versatility as well:

Coston is a versatile lineman who began his collegiate career with the Aggies as a guard in 2001. He started four of the five games he played in that year. The Broughton High School product then moved to offensive tackle in 2002, starting all 12 games.

Coston again shifted positions as a junior, lining up at center for every game. He earned second-team All-Mid Eastern Athletic Conference honors that year, as he collected 154 knockdown blocks. In 2004, he again led the team with 123 knockdowns, grading 90-percent for blocking consistency while garnering first-team All-MEAC accolades.

He finished his career with 41 consecutive starts and helped clear the way for a rushing attack that averaged 4.5 yards per carry during his time in the lineup.

[Arles]

Interesting, Brandt says that Poppinga may follow Tedy Bruschi's lead and end up as an inside LB in the pros given his speed (4.7) and ability to play in space. If that's the case, I really like that pick.

[Eaglesfan27]

Wow! I love McPherson for the Saints at this point in the draft. This could potentially be the steal of the draft and relatively low risk for the potential at this point.

[cthomer5000]

McPherson to New Orleans... solid move by them I guess. Probably not the best place for him to land though, since the place seems to be a circus on and off the field.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

McPherson to New Orleans... solid move by them I guess. Probably not the best place for him to land though, since the place seems to be a circus on and off the field.

But he is a good back-up to Brooks, and given time could take his spot and be at least as good.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Francis_Cole

Not sure if you mean 2 more picks as in the 4th round or 2 more picks as in the next 2 picks in the 2nd round.
Nugent wouldn't have even been still there for our 2nd #2 rnd pick so there was no way he was still going to be there in the 4th round.

Yes, I meant he shouldn't have gone for two more picks.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Wow! I love McPherson for the Saints at this point in the draft. This could potentially be the steal of the draft and relatively low risk for the potential at this point.

In a place where Aaron Brooks was allowed to thrive, this is probably a good situation for him playing wise. I don't think he'll have a ton of off-the-field issues. I mean, it's not like he's getting a huge contract.

And while AFL salaries aren't like NFL ones, he's been a professional before. I'm glad he's getting a chance, though it'd be nicer to see him go somewhere and develop as a real quarterback - rather than a mobile slasher like I see New Orleans turning him into.

[duckman]

Wow, Adrian finally got picked in the 5th round. I love being right.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by General Mike

I like the Orton pick for Da Bears

I agree. Orton was a good pick. I think the depth chart will read as follows.

1) - Grossman
2) - Hutchinson
3) - Orton (willl be the future if Grossman doesn't pan out).