It's Gone! 2004-2006 NHL Offseason and Lockout Thread

[Cards4ever]

Henry/Todd,

Goli, like most of the U of M d-men that we are seeing go to the pros(Leopold to a certain extent, Martin, and especially Ballard), are offensive D-men. He would be playing in the USHL this season if Ballard had not signed with Phoenix. He definitely needs some time in college before heading to the pros. Playing on the big sheet will improve his already impressive skating skills, as he will have much more room to cover. He was one of the guys that Minnesota really wanted to get, so, that should tell you of how well thought of he is.

Now, if you guys could just let us develop him for 4 years, we would really be happy!

Remind me again in December, and I'll be glad to give you a update!

[henry296]

Thanks for the scouting report.

The information in Pittsburgh is that they really like his skating ability and I love a good offensive d-man.

The Pens history is to let kids get experience in college. They did that with Brooks Orpik, Ryan Whitney and Noah Welch. Craig Patrick is strong believer in that.

[Cards4ever]

He's in a good place for development, he's going to have to work hard for his spot and he's going to play against top-notch teams, so, we both can hope for good things to come for Alex!

[sachmo71]

Inverview with Mike Modano on the radio yesterday. Might be more interesting for me than you guys, but it's sort of a glimpse into how important chemistry can be in sports:

Modano on BaD Radio
Thursday, July 15, 2004
Stars captain Mike Modano made an appearance with the BaD Radio guys on The Ticket Thursday afternoon. He talked about a variety of topics, including his struggles last season, his much talked about financial problems, his relationship with Bill Guerin, about Brett Hull possibly returning to Dallas, why he may not be able to play in Italy or in the WHA if there is a lockout and more. Here are some of the highlights.

On talking to ex-Stars coach Ken Hitchcock Wednesday

"I talked to Hitch yesterday.
[When it was suggested that he hated Hitch] I love Hitch. Just catching up. See how he is doing. He's doing all right."

On Ed Belfour signing a new contract with Toronto, which includes money even if there is a lockout, and whether he got that kind of money guaranteed in his contract

"I didn't. I was being a nice guy. Nice guys finish last. It's good for Eddie though. Three-year deal. He'll be playing until he is 41. Making $8 million. You kidding me. Those owners are losing money. Toronto's not losing money. They are doing fine.
[When asked if anyone forced owners to hand out big contracts] No. Not at all. We are the bad the guys. They've got to raise ticket prices to pay for the salaries, unless there is some sort of cap instituted. But I believe other sports have raised their ticket prices and they have caps. Other teams have relocated and changed cities and they have caps. They still raise prices. Teams still move. Seems like those caps are working for them. It comes back to the players."

On what he has been doing this summer

"Just hanging out. Playing a lot of golf. Messing around.
[When asked if his golf game has improved due to the extra time] Really the opposite of that. I think the more I've played the worse I've gotten. It's been a bad summer for golf. Bad year all around. Golf, hockey, you name it."

On whether he has been away from hockey long enough to have started missing it

"I'm getting there. Now we have to start early because of the World Cup. Now you have to fast forward things about three weeks and have to start working out earlier. I am going to plan on start skating next week."

On whether the Stars early exit from the playoffs was like other early exits or if this one was particularly bitter with some finger pointing

"It got to the point where there was a little blame game going on. There was a lot of tension. There was a lot of pressure to win from Mr. Hicks and Doug [Armstrong]. [They put] together a team they felt could compete and win a Stanley Cup. So there was a lot of tension, knowing that our labor agreement is unresolved and going into this year we don't know if we are going to play. There was a lot of attention put into last season because of what I just said. So that was the hard part. Coming in every day to perform. Everybody looking over each other's shoulders wondering what they are doing wrong, why they are doing this and why is this player playing with this person. Just a lot of second guessing and it went on for all year. It got to the point where there was a lot of frustration through the locker room and the management. Things just never got resolved. It just really kind of snowballed. We had a great run somewhere in mid-February to March. We had a great month-and-a-half, two months of the season, but other than that it was just back and forth."

On the first round lost to Colorado in the playoffs

"They pretty much took advantage of the weak spot of our team and that was probably our defense. Not being able to be physical on [Peter] Forsberg or [Milan] Hejduk and those guys, to make them pay the price. That's how you win in the playoffs. You just have to beat on those guys physically, wear them down and to hope that they don't go into those hard areas. If they know they aren't going to get touched or hit, those guys just skate around. You saw how they played. They were just toying with us."

When asked if the Stars missed Derian Hatcher

"We missed some size and some physical presence. (laughter).

When asked about Richard Matvichuk signing with New Jersey

"Matty got a great deal. He got what he was asking for. His market value for him stayed strong. He got what he wanted. He was asking for what he deserved. All the best to him. For us, we have [Sergei] Zubov, [Philippe] Boucher. I still think they are looking for a left-handed defenseman to fill that spot with Don [Sweeney], [Trevor] Daley, [John] Erskine. So, they'll have their work cut out for them."

On what last season was like for him personally

"It was long. It just got off to a bad start and it just never got on track. There were a lot of things distraction-wise that kept me from focusing on the game. It was just one of those years. Just write it off. Get it over with. One of those years I can't ever see happening again."

When asked if he kept track of his plus/minus rating

"You can kind of dissect that stat until the cows come home. There are a lot of times where we are stuck on the ice when we pull the goalie. We got scored a ton of goals on us when we pulled the goalie, nine or ten times this year. So that is a nice little minus that is chalked up. Just five-on-five we didn't score many goals. We had a good power play. That was kind of our bread-and-butter. If we didn't score on the power play, we weren't going to win games."

On when it was pointed out that he just seemed defeated through most of the season

"I was exhausted, dead tired. Just waiting for that last game to end so I could get away from it all."

On his much publicized financial problems

"I think if I could do it over again I think I would have kept that pretty quiet. I think I just opened up a can of worms and people just came to their own conclusions about what happened. The rumor mill starts flying around this town and everybody has an explanation of what went wrong. They [could do] their own little research with their own answers. The fact is there were some people that were involved in my business and lifestyle that, to look at it now, should have never been doing what they were doing. That was a live and learn experience. The trust factor of having people do that is very critical. We don't go to school. We don't go to college. We don't have business degrees. We don't have any idea how to handle that. So, you try to find the right people to do that so you can focus on hockey. Once I didn't have those right people. Now I have to go out and find some new people and not concentrate on hockey. Once practice was over I was gone for six or seven hours a day doing this for four or five months to try to resurrect things, clean it up, get the paper trail a mile long of all this stuff and get if over with. It took a good five or six months to do that. Now it's back to normal."

When asked if it was true that these money problems were caused by a friend that screwed him

"Oh yeah. The money thing wasn't the problem. People saying you lost $15 million to $20 million. If that was the case you would have saw me jumping off a bridge. That was far from it. It was just the matter of the trust thing with this guy, who you think is a friend. We had a lot of great times together. We were pretty close. He just made some bad decisions that weren't in my best interest. I thought that in the back of my mind he was handling those things. He didn't do them very well."

On the incident where it was reported that his Stanley Cup ring was up for sale on eBay and whether it was related to the financial stuff

"No. No. That was an actual mistake. I had another one made. I had a better one made, actually, one that I could wear. I kept the original. The people who made it kept the original on display because they wanted to show what they did. Some how having it on display, it got acquired. It's totally separate."

When asked if he any idea if there will an NHL season in 2004-05

"Not really. Every week the tune changes. We had our meetings in Toronto. The Board of Governors had their meetings a couple of weeks ago. It's more or less prepare for the worst and hope for the best. It would be tough to have the start of the year. I can't really see the whole season being missed. That one year in 1994 we started in January. It turned out to be great. It was a great second half. Great playoffs. Just depends on how firm everyone wants to stand on their positioning."

On suggestions he might play in Italy if there is a lockout

"It's an opportunity, a chance to go out there and play. Right now, I am kind of stuck with an insurance issue of getting on-ice coverage. I think if I got hurt playing in those games, I'd be in trouble. I wouldn't be covered here and I'd lose my contract here if we started up again. Insurance companies can't touch me right now [because of] age, past injuries and plus I've got a policy out already. So now they're thinking maybe he'll take a dive and collect on two policies.
[When asked about the WHA] They both kind of fall under the same deal. If I went and played and got hurt.... "

On the rumors that he and Bill Guerin don't get along

"You had a situation where people were trying to find why the Stars were losing and why we weren't being successful and I think people just try to create one. That was one that they created between Bill and I. Bill and I have known each other for years and we've played together before. It was fine. We are comfortable with one another. We have different thoughts and philosophies on the game but, all in all, when we get on the ice we play together well. We play together hard and try to do the best we can. Off the ice, you don't have to be the closest of friends and do everything together like people think you should do.

When asked if the fact that he is single and Guerin is married with kids plays a role

Being here this long I have a lot of friends outside the game, which has kind of helped me an awful lot. We have something like 50 something kids on our team between the whole lineup of guys. Everybody who is married, after this summer, Steve Ott is getting married I think and [Niko] Kapanen. Niko is tying the knot. [When asked if Niko was marrying a Dallas girl]. No. He can't even speak English. (He is marrying a girl from Finland). So when I am done practicing or done playing, I don't spend time with those guys. They're great friends and great teammates, but I have a life away from my job just like everybody else does. Again, it was just people trying to pry and dig and make a story that really wasn't there.

On the talk about Brett Hull possibly returning to Dallas

"I love Brett and I think he is one guy that I have connected with when he came here. We just have kind of a relationship where we think and have opinions on a lot of the same things. It was amazing playing with the guy. I had the most fun in the game when he was here. Just watching him play. How he scores. His attitude. How he approaches the game. How he relates to the media. The game would be colorful and the game would be exciting if we had two dozen of those type of guys in the league. He doesn't beat around the bush. He speaks his mind."

On the story about Hull shooting the puck into the corner after Ken Hitchcock saying something about goals not being important

"Hitch was trying to get his point across that goals, at this time, the way were playing, weren't important. That just hit a nerve with Brett. If you ask him he says he'll give you 600 or 700 reasons why they are important. He was there for primarily scoring goals and to be told that goals weren't important, so his next few drills he just went down the ice and shot it in the corner, got back in line and did it again. Hitch told him to get off the ice. He told him, 'No, I am not going anywhere. How can you say that goals don't matter?' When those guys were here it was pretty comical. We had some good run-ins with Hitch."

On the importance of guys like Hull and Mike Keane when Hitchcock was around

"Those guys were crucial when Ken was around. If we didn't have him [Keane] around we would have been in straight jackets. We would have just lost our mind. Those guys just kind of broke the ice. They were old. [Craig] Ludwig and [Brian] Skrudland and [Guy] Carbonneau, those guys really kind of were able to be the cooler between the coaches and the rest of the players. Keaner is probably one of the funniest guys I've played with. We had an optional in L.A. and he didn't go on the ice. He took Hitchcock's jumpsuit, stuffed it with towels and put baby powder in his hair to make it look like he had gray hair and came out and ran practice for an hour. Hitch is upstairs in the window watching this thing with [assistant coaches Rick Wilson and Doug Jarvis]. He would do things like that. Hitch on the private planes and the charters would always look for the cookies and the goodies and Mike would grab them all and hide them. Ken would go up and down that plane looking for those cookies. Keane would ruffle the package so [Hitch] could hear it and he would turn around checking to see who the hell has my cookies.Some great stories. He was a great, funny guy."

When asked if he thought Hull would end up with the Stars

"I don't know. They've talked to him a few times. The philosophy is they want to go younger and faster as a team. To have him around this time to kind of help maybe develop some of those kids and teach them a little bit. Kind of pass some things on from him. You can never too much from Brett as far as how to score, how to shoot, where to be on the ice. If it works out it would be great."

On some people saying he was not captain material

"There again, we didn't get off to the start that we wanted so people had to find something that was wrong with the team. There's a new captain and that must be the reason. That didn't change my personality. Guys would know if I tried to come in there and be a different guy than I was prior to that. They would see right through me. I wasn't going to change as far as that and how I approach the game and how I play never changed. I tried to do what I could on the ice. I tried to lead that way and tried to be consistent in a game in and game out player."

When asked if it would have bothered him if someone else had been named captain

"Probably not. I'm just not the kind of guy who gets worked up over that kind of thing. You still have to go out and play. You still have to go out and perform and contribute for 82 games. It wouldn't have bothered me. They would have found somebody that did the role and we still would have had the same season."

On the 2003-04 Stars lacking that mentality of we won't go quietly that seemed to a part of Dallas teams in the past

"There was a lot of deer in the headlights. Guys really didn't know how to respond or how to act on the ice and respond to how they were playing us. Back when we had those great seven game series with Denver in 1999 and 2000, prior to that we had a group of guys together and Denver just came off winning in 1996, so they had a couple years where they had a little slip in their game. Peter and Joe and they got Hejduk and [Alex] Tanguay and Patrick [Roy] came in they just started taking off again. We were always trying to grade ourselves with Denver and Detroit. So those were the two teams everyone was measuring stick against. We finally felt like we caught those guys. After we did a lot of the guys that were on those teams obviously are gone. Now there is a learning curve to deal with those guys again. Mainly they still have a lot of guys still there from those teams. We have a lot of guys who have never been in those type of series. Played a Peter Forsberg for a seven game series and try to kill the guy because he's dominating, he's talented as ever. It's a trickle down effect. Guys didn't know how to react to that. That's a good learning experience for us. Hopefully, if we ever have shot you know who to watch when you are on the ice again."

On whether Derian Hatcher was a vocal, screaming captain

"No. No. He was pretty quiet. We had supporting cast guys who would be vocal and kind of say their two cents. Hatch did speak up once in a while and say his piece. [Those supporting voices are missing] a little bit. We are trying to find some new guys like that. Stu Barnes is like that. Rob DiMaio. Brenden [Morrow] is trying to fit into that role, but he is not a very outspoken guy. He's one that does it on the ice. A lot of the new guys that we acquired. [Aaron] Downey is great in that aspect. [Philippe] Boucher is starting to get a little better. [Jon] Klemm is starting to find his little niche. It takes a little while for those guys to feel comfortable to speak up to say this it how it should be and not think that everybody is going to shoot them down when they start speaking up."

When asked what players the Stars should get rid of

"Where's the roster?" (laughter)

[Draft Dodger]

Don Cherry is coming back to HNIC for at least one more year.

Mike Danton is pleading to conspiract to commit murder, and probably wont be back anytime soon.

[bbor]

DD where did you here this?

They havent said anything on radio yet?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bbor

DD where did you here this?

They havent said anything on radio yet?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...64&hubName=nhl

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...37&hubName=nhl

[JonInMiddleGA]

Atlanta Thrasers star Danny Heatley was indicted today on first-degree felony & misdemeanor charges related to the traffic accident that killed teammate Dan Snyder last year.

If convicted of the most serious charge, Heatley faces 3 to 15 year in prison.

Snyder's family had lobbied for leniency in the case.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...16heatley.html

[bbor]

Hrm.....odd day for hockey

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bbor

Hrm.....odd day for hockey

tough offseason for hockey...

[Karim]

A list of players who have filed for arbitration...
http://www.nhlpa.com/Content/PRESS/n...ase.asp?ID=454

The WHA is still a joke...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5412689

[Karim]

The WHA's free agent draft... "Founders' franchise" for that mysterious franchise that doesn't yet exist... what a joke...
http://www.worldhockeyassociation.net/

[Karim]

dola,

As you can probably tell, I'm completely enamoured with the WHA.

[bbor]

2nd over all pick Travis Green?..LMAO!

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by bbor

2nd over all pick Travis Green?..LMAO!

It looks like some of them are actually drafting guys they might be able to sign, instead of wasting them on guys who would never consider it.

[Ryan S]

I would expect the WHA to successfully start if there is an NHL lockout this year. Even if it is thrown together at the last minute. This is way too big an opportunity to miss if you have any kind of ambition of starting a new league.

I am saying nothing about the long term chances.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

It looks like some of them are actually drafting guys they might be able to sign, instead of wasting them on guys who would never consider it.

It STILL blows my mind

[Karim]

Vancouver may walk away from Cloutier and Morrison... (I can't see it happening...)
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=91483

[bbor]

Karim have you bought your season tickets for the WHA yet?

[Karim]

Originally Posted by bbor

Karim have you bought your season tickets for the WHA yet?

Well, now that the Nordiks are in, I'm just waiting for the Flamers to be officially announced...

Did you know...Texas has the most professional hockey teams in North America.

Did you know...The first native Arizonian was drafted this year... I don't remember his name or what team drafted him or when... but that's not important.

[bbor]

Did you know you are a Ardent hockey enthusiast?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bbor

Did you know you are a Ardent hockey enthusiast?

You know these last three years in Belgium will really come in handy if (when) there's a lockout. For all intents and purposes I've been living without any real hockey for three years. So little will change. Though given that I'm moving back to the States at the end of this year, the timing could have been a little better.

I worry about Karim though. I fear he's going to turn into some Rain Man like character puttering around and spouting off random useless hockey facts and cursing the WHA in tourettes-like profanity filled explosions. In fact, I think it's already too late...

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Karim

Did you know...Texas has the most professional hockey teams in North America.

YAY!!

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I worry about Karim though. I fear he's going to turn into some Rain Man like character puttering around and spouting off random useless hockey facts and cursing the WHA in tourettes-like profanity filled explosions. In fact, I think it's already too late...

It's worse... I've started an EHM Dynasty!

[sachmo71]

Wing resign Shannahan.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=91742

[Karim]

I still think it's too much but at least it is $2 million less. If he can regain his form then fine, but he's up there in age and it really showed against the Flames. HB is probably closer to home on this one and will give us a more accurate assessment.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Chubby
If you've bothered to read any articles on ESPN.com or The Buffalo News you'd know they haven't even offered A contract. The last articles I saw were talking about how they were "talking" but Vanek was quoted as not being offered a contract.

I think they would rather have him in Minnesota much like they had Miller stay at Michigan St.

He also plays against college kids, remember that. I'm not saying he won't be a stud, I hope he is.

Chubby, when you get back on the board, read this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1843089

ESPN.com: Who is your top player in your system ready to play in the NHL right now?
General manager Darcy Regier: There's probably just one player who's got a shot at it, Tomas Vanek out of the University of Minnesota. If he's signed, he would be someone at training camp that would have a chance to make our team. He came over here from Vienna as a 14-year-old to play in Red Deer, Alberta, to pursue his dreams of playing in the NHL. He has so far been fulfilling his dreams. He's an interesting kid.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Karim

I still think it's too much but at least it is $2 million less. If he can regain his form then fine, but he's up there in age and it really showed against the Flames. HB is probably closer to home on this one and will give us a more accurate assessment.

Shanahan's play has declined over the last two years, especially in the play-offs. There was a huge outcry from Red Wings fans to dump Shanny after last year. He took the brunt of the criticism. He doesn't have great speed (never did), but he doesn't really play physical anymore either. He doesn't hit. He doesn't fight. He doesn't play with the required "mean streak" you'd hope (expect) to get out of a power forward with his size. In a lot of ways he played like Hull last year. He would coast into the slot and stay there waiting for a one-timer. More importantly over the last two years in the play-offs (16 games) he has 2 goals and 6 assists. You really need more out of one of your top line forwards.

His current deal is $2 million less than he made last year (and would have made if the Wings picked up his option). But apparently there are a number of incentives in the contract that could boost his pay up to around the same amount.

As with many things Red Wings-related, I didn't agree with the bulk of Wings fans on the Shanny issue. Yes, two goals in sixteen play-off games and no physical presence is unacceptable for a goal-scoring power forward, but I like Shanahan. He still scored 25 goals last year (30 the year before). He's a great character guy and a leader. It would be a shame to lose him especially considering there is really no apt replacement in the system. The Wings could have tried to go the free agent rout and sign someone cheaper, but who knows how that would have worked out (see: Whitney).

[Karim]

Here's one of the better articles I've read about the CBA...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...+best+solution

[sterlingice]

The more and more I read about this, the more and more this feels like the baseball labor situation. Hopefully the NHLPA isn't as strong as the MLBPA and some sanity can be restored.

SI

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Karim

Here's one of the better articles I've read about the CBA...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...+best+solution

Great article. However, the guy seems to base most of his argument on the assumption that a year with no hockey = a year off of everyone's contract.

Unless I've missed it, that's far from a given. Remember, the NHL argued successfully during the Yashin holdout mess that a contract year doesn't count if the player doesn't play. They may very well have set a precedent with that case that will cost them big time.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The more and more I read about this, the more and more this feels like the baseball labor situation. Hopefully the NHLPA isn't as strong as the MLBPA and some sanity can be restored.

I've read that Goodenow sees the MLBPA as the "cadillac" of professional sports unions and confers with Donald Fehr on a regular basis. That doesn't auger well for an amicable agreement.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Great article. However, the guy seems to base most of his argument on the assumption that a year with no hockey = a year off of everyone's contract.

Unless I've missed it, that's far from a given. Remember, the NHL argued successfully during the Yashin holdout mess that a contract year doesn't count if the player doesn't play. They may very well have set a precedent with that case that will cost them big time.

You're right. No doubt legal challenges will be the result of owners trying to suggest contracts are expired.

[Ryan S]

Personally I hope that a salary cap is not put in place. I hate what the cap has done to the NFL.

[Karim]

I think everyone agrees the $31 million hard cap is bogus. I'd actually be very surprised if a hard cap was implemented; it will never be agreed to by the union and will be used by the owners to get some sort of concession. When the salary cap is removed from the table, ownership will proceed toward some sort of luxury tax. The union will huff and puff but realize that's the future course and they'll haggle over the details of a graduated tax rate. The other elements such as arbitration, free agency and entry level salaries are not really that acrimonious and a consensus should be reached fairly easily.

Unfortunately, there won't be any meaningful discussions until September; it's Goodenow's deliberate strategy not to have substantive discussions until the 11th hour when the pressure's on.

[Karim]

Interesting stats I just came across. Flames dollars per minute of ice time...

Players	03-04	04-05	Avg	$/Minute
Iginla	7,000,000	7,000,000	21.25	$4,017
Simon	1,500,000	1,900,000	12.75	$1,817
Gelinas	2,400,000	1,950,000	14.75	$1,612
Yelle	1,600,000	1,800,000	15.75	$1,394
Lydman	1,700,000	2,400,000	21.25	$1,377
Reinprecht	1,500,000	1,900,000	17.00	$1,363
Kobasew	1,130,000	1,130,000	10.25	$1,344
Warrener	1,800,000	2,200,000	20.00	$1,341
Turek	4,250,000	2,000,000	60.00	$1,333
Saprykin	1,000,000	1,200,000	13.75	$1,064
Gauthier	1,400,000	1,540,000	18.75	$1,002
Nilson	1,100,000	1,250,000	15.75	$968
Leopold	900,000	1,750,000	22.25	$959
Regehr	1,250,000	1,750,000	22.50	$949
Clark	700,000	825,000	14.00	$719
Donovan	752,950	850,000	15.00	$691
Nieminen	600,000	600,000	12.50	$585
Kiprusoff	880,000	2,000,000	60.00	$585
Loyns	430,000	473,000	10.75	$537
Ritchie		550,000	14.00	$479
Lombardi	500,000	550,000	14.50	$463
Commodore	515,000	566,500	15.25	$453
Montador	350,000	425,000	11.75	$441
Ference	500,000	625,000	18.50	$412

[Karim]

dola,

Now calculate how many minutes you need to work to match Ference's per minute salary, let alone Iginla's...

[bbor]

How much is that per tooth?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Karim

I think everyone agrees the $31 million hard cap is bogus. I'd actually be very surprised if a hard cap was implemented; it will never be agreed to by the union and will be used by the owners to get some sort of concession. When the salary cap is removed from the table, ownership will proceed toward some sort of luxury tax. The union will huff and puff but realize that's the future course and they'll haggle over the details of a graduated tax rate. The other elements such as arbitration, free agency and entry level salaries are not really that acrimonious and a consensus should be reached fairly easily.

Unfortunately, there won't be any meaningful discussions until September; it's Goodenow's deliberate strategy not to have substantive discussions until the 11th hour when the pressure's on.

Yeah, but if he's taking points from Fehr then the luxury tax will be so meaningless as to do anything but penalize the Rangers. In baseball, it wasn't so much the luxury tax that scared owners away from the huge contracts as the prospects of losing money and the fact that they couldn't get insurance for guaranteed contracts over 3 years that covered a pre-existing injury. So, in other words, if this goes like the baseball negotiations, the NHL will be fucked because they don't have the revenue streams that even baseball has.

As for the 11th hour, that's what I always hated about these negotiations. In 1994, if I had been where these two sides were "meeting" for months, not even trying to resolve things with a gun and an armed group of mercenaries (I really need to stop watching these late night action movies), I would have taken over the damn building and locked them in their rooms until they hammered out an agreement. Then again, I was younger and more impressionable. Still, it's just frustrating that this will all come down to "who blinks first" and "who makes more public PR bungles in the next three months" to decide what happens. NOTHING LIKE PISSING AWAY MONTHS TRYING TO GAIN ONLY MINOR POSTURING POWER WHILE THE WORLD PASSES YOU BY AND FUCKS OVER YOUR SPORT.

Ahem... did I mention I'm not real big on these type of negotiations...

SI

[Karim]

The 11th hour strategy bothers me too. If either side truly cared about the sport or the fans, they'd be negotiating every day. There are no reasons why this couldn't be resolved by September 15th.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Karim

The 11th hour strategy bothers me too. If either side truly cared about the sport or the fans, they'd be negotiating every day. There are no reasons why this couldn't be resolved by September 15th.

One reason: Greed.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by klayman

One reason: Greed.

But whos greed?

[klayman]

Originally Posted by bbor

But whos greed?

Simple, both sides.

[sachmo71]

I don't even care about the particulars. I just want them to play.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I don't even care about the particulars. I just want them to play.

Unfortunately, I have to care about the particulars or I may no longer have a team.

The Alberta owners have said as much. Both Edmonton and Calgary have held on until 2004, hoping some economic sense returns to the game. The 38 Oilers owners and the 9 Flames owners won't be willing to lose any more money on an annual basis. I don't blame them. And no one should expect them to divert money from their other businesses to prop up the teams.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by klayman

Simple, both sides.

DId you just call me simple?

I could be simple...i AM a hockey player

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Karim

The Alberta owners have said as much. Both Edmonton and Calgary have held on until 2004, hoping some economic sense returns to the game. The 38 Oilers owners and the 9 Flames owners won't be willing to lose any more money on an annual basis. I don't blame them. And no one should expect them to divert money from their other businesses to prop up the teams.

Unless the NHLPA drastically changes their stance or the NHL comes up with some sort of financial stability package, NHL hockey is dead in Alberta. Unfortunately, neither the NHLPA or NHL seem to give a crap about it.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by bbor

DId you just call me simple?

I could be simple...i AM a hockey player

No, I would have called you a dumbass if anything

[bbor]

Originally Posted by klayman

No, I would have called you a dumbass if anything

AHAHHAHA


I actually was wondering if anyone in this thread or how many people in this thread played hockey.....and still play hockey?And hwat kinda levels?

[Karim]

Originally Posted by bbor

I actually was wondering if anyone in this thread or how many people in this thread played hockey.....and still play hockey?And hwat kinda levels?

AAA Sr. Men's Couch Potato; I'm deadly on a breakaway to the fridge.