08-30-2005, 12:18 PM | #401 |
n00b
Join Date: Aug 2005
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"How on earth did you happen to stumble across our humble little forum for the first time ever & of all the threads pick this one to post in for your debut?
Or are you a long-time lurker so moved by all of this that you decided today was the day that you just had to post something? Or is it possible that you're a regular who wanted to troll this thread in an attempt to sidetrack it into another round of political based argument but lacked the balls to do it under your own name? Inquiring minds want to know." Ummm, I fail to see the relevance of these questions, and, hard as it might be for you to believe, in raising the question of whether comparisons between an event that killed 200,000+ people and an event that (let us hope) killed no more several hundred people are misleading and inappropriate, I have no intention of turning this into a "political based argument," although I must admit that I am not entirely certain what you mean by that phrase. Unlike you, I am not going to flame those who write things with which I disagree. Some here have offered thoughtful explanations of why they think likening the tsunami to Katrina is justified. Needless to say, I am still maintain that the comparisons are inappropriate at best, but I would much rather have someone disagree with me intelligently than agree with me stupidly. Incidentally, there is no relationship between the number of one's posts and the quality of one's posts. Everyone has to post for a first time. |
08-30-2005, 12:27 PM | #402 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
While Jon sometimes steps over the line, I too find it interesting that your first post is one that could very likely start a major battle in the political debate.
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08-30-2005, 12:29 PM | #403 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
I wish I knew. My cellphone won't work because it is Verizon Wireless and their tower is down. I'm out of touch with everyone, and I don't know what the plan is. From hearing Mayor Nagin say that it will be at least 48-72 hours until people can return and hearing experts say it might be weeks, we just extended our hotel room until Thursday. I'm waiting for more damage assessment to be done today to help me formulate a plan. For now, we are about to go eat some lunch and catch another movie (can't watch the news 24 hours/day or might become too depressed.) |
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08-30-2005, 12:32 PM | #404 | ||
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
And I, quite frankly, don't believe that for an instant. Quote:
Yep, there's a first time for everyone. I simply don't believe this happens to be yours.
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08-30-2005, 12:40 PM | #405 |
n00b
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Hang in there, EF and all the other folks directly affected by Katrina.
I am certainly lucky never to have experienced a hurricane-related disruption of the sort that you folks are going to have to deal with. The worst one I experienced was Isabel, which left us without electricity for about two weeks. Waiting in line for hours for gas and ice, spending hours of each day scrounging for food, not knowing when one could go back to work or the kids could go back to school--it got very trying very fast, and it was nothing compared to the recovery that you folks are going to have to make. I expect that the American people will respond with their customary generosity, though, and that should help some. |
08-30-2005, 12:46 PM | #406 | |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
This is really none of my business, but I'm curious so I'm going to ask. In situations like these, when you have to evacuate, does homeowners insurance reimburse you for lodging costs while your away? |
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08-30-2005, 12:46 PM | #407 |
n00b
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Don't worry, folks, this is the second-to-last-thing that I have to say in this exchange
"Originally Posted by Yuskevich I have no intention of turning this into a "political based argument," And I, quite frankly, don't believe that for an instant." Maybe you know me better than I know myself. I know how we can find out--if you are so certain that I am trying to start a political based argument, could you tell me what my politics are? Tell me which presidential candidates I have voted for since 1988, and I promise to tell the truth as to whether you guessed correctly or not. If you can get them right, then maybe I myself failed to recognize the true nature of my post. Quote: "Incidentally, there is no relationship between the number of one's posts and the quality of one's posts. Everyone has to post for a first time. Yep, there's a first time for everyone. I simply don't believe this happens to be yours." You'll have to trust me whan I tell you that you are simply wrong on this one. |
08-30-2005, 12:47 PM | #408 |
n00b
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Don't worry, folks, this is the second-to-last-thing that I have to say in this exchange
"Originally Posted by Yuskevich I have no intention of turning this into a "political based argument," And I, quite frankly, don't believe that for an instant." Maybe you know me better than I know myself. I know how we can find out--if you are so certain that I am trying to start a political based argument, could you tell me what my politics are? Tell me which presidential candidates I have voted for since 1988, and I promise to tell the truth as to whether you guessed correctly or not. If you can get them right, then maybe I myself failed to recognize the true nature of my post. Quote: "Incidentally, there is no relationship between the number of one's posts and the quality of one's posts. Everyone has to post for a first time. Yep, there's a first time for everyone. I simply don't believe this happens to be yours." You'll have to trust me when I tell you that you are simply wrong on this one. |
08-30-2005, 12:49 PM | #409 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
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Quote:
I'll try this one more time. I'm not saying deny aid to those who, as you put it, are unable to make the choice to evacuate. I'm trying to distinguish between those who have the capacity and lack the common sense and those who are simply caught in an unfortunate situation. The dumbasses. The people who should know better, don't do anything, and then act surprised when the fecal matter hits the rotating oscillator. Those are the people for whom I have no sympathy. Children, the sick, the infirm, the elderly, those who lack the ability, physical, financial, or what have you, those are not the people towards whom I bear this particular venom. I realize it's probably not feasible to make the distinction in the real world. I'm not proposing anybody go out and start arbitrarily deciding who gets FEMA aid and who doesn't right now. All I'm saying is that I wish it were possible to deny FEMA aid to the group of people which I have defined as dumbasses. Folks who willfully and defiantly stay when disaster is evident and visible and then expect the state to swoop in, as a deus ex machina, to save the day when they realize, "oops, maybe I should have left when the authorities told me to. I didn't realize 175 mph winds and torrential rains could be this dangerous!" Those people are a financial burden to the state, but more importantly, they're placing additional risk and strain on the lives of those emergency personnel whose job it is to rescue people caught in perilous situations. That is selfish and asinine behavior, and I see absolutely no reason to reward that. I'm going to stop there. I'm not wishing for anybody to inflict further misery on the folks caught in the Katrina situation through no fault of their own, but I'm not sure that message is getting across, judging by Schmidty's response to a post in which I tried to clarify that. |
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08-30-2005, 12:49 PM | #410 | |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
This is really none of my business, but I'm curious so I'm going to ask. In situations like these, when you have to evacuate - does homeowners insurance reimburse you for lodging costs while your away? |
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08-30-2005, 01:08 PM | #411 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Glad to hear you're okay, EaglesFan. Hope all others in the area on this forum are okay as well.
Now I'm going to diverge a little bit, in the vein some others have in this thread. Anyone in Chicago see the Red Streak today? The cover reads, "The Big Easy took Katrina's wrath pretty hard, but Chicago's suffering, too: Thanks to the storm, we're now No. 1 in gas prices." Oh. My. Fucking. God. "Yeah, it sounds pretty bad for all them down there, but LOOK AT US! WE'VE GOT THIS HIGHEST GAS PRICES IN THE COUNTRY!" Maybe it's harder for me to be sympathetic since I don't drive, but I don't think that's why. Also, as I rode the bus downtown, I saw a Channel 2 van outside the BP in Clark and LaSalle, I assume to 'report' on the high prices. Who the FUCK buys their gas at Clark and LaSalle? Also, the article in the Red Streak reported the prices at the same BP station at Clark and LaSalle, but made no mention of WHY the storm has elevated Chicago to having the highest gas prices in the nation. Fucking rag. |
08-30-2005, 01:10 PM | #412 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springfield, USA
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9 inches of water in the French quarter and rising, and they have ordered everybody out of NO "if they can leave."
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08-30-2005, 01:41 PM | #413 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
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08-30-2005, 01:43 PM | #414 |
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Now it's my turn to ask a "just so I'm clear on this" question ... If you couldn't leave the city for whatever reason when the mandatory evacuation was ordered, were people offered the dozen or so shelter locations or were they ordered to vacate their homes & get to one of the shelters?
My impression is that the city basically (or even explicity) acknowledged the difficulties in leaving town that some residents faced, I'm just not clear on what those people were told to do.
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08-30-2005, 01:43 PM | #415 | |
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Quote:
But ISN'T SUFFERING STILL SUFFERING? Doesnt matter how many dead, people still mourne for them right?
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08-30-2005, 01:54 PM | #416 |
College Starter
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Location: Henderson, Nevada
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Dola: I just got back from class (0800-1130) and just turned on the news and it seems things (Law and Order) are breaking down and talks of suicides in the Superdome (CNN Reported).. This is not good.
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08-30-2005, 01:58 PM | #417 | |
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Quote:
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08-30-2005, 02:01 PM | #418 | |
Norm!!!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Manassas, VA
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Quote:
I just read this article on looting and I'm speechless. What is wrong with people? |
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08-30-2005, 02:09 PM | #420 |
Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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Time to declare martial law.
Tragedy upon tragedy. Very sad to see.
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08-30-2005, 02:10 PM | #421 |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I'm inclined to cut some looters a little slack. Taking food, diapers or baby formula is one thing. Those are things you need to survive.
Taking other items like jewelery and ten pairs of jeans simply because you were "oppressed" is disgusting. |
08-30-2005, 02:10 PM | #422 | |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Quote:
Last edited by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn : 08-30-2005 at 02:11 PM. |
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08-30-2005, 02:11 PM | #423 |
College Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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Is this the end of New Orleans forever though? It seems to me that there's no way for it to recover now.
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08-30-2005, 02:12 PM | #424 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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Quote:
Looters should be shot on sight. Harsh, yes, but the justice system isn't exactly working down there right now, and the only way to keep the thugs at bay is to demostrate zero tolerance. |
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08-30-2005, 02:16 PM | #425 | |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
I can't imagine any city official would give that order. Or is that already the order when marshall law is declared? |
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08-30-2005, 02:18 PM | #426 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
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Toujour Pret |
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08-30-2005, 02:21 PM | #427 | |
The boy who cried Trout
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
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Quote:
Man, CS, you need to relax! The city will recover. |
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08-30-2005, 02:23 PM | #428 |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Marshall law has been declared in two N.O. parishes - Jefferson Parish and Plaquemines Parish
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050830...s_050830162048 |
08-30-2005, 02:28 PM | #429 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Quote:
Yes, with a tight grouping of at least three rounds.
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08-30-2005, 02:31 PM | #430 | |
High School JV
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Quote:
That's going to take a long, long time, though. Most of the buildings in the city will be flooded for days at best, maybe longer, barring some miracles in getting the pumping system working again. A lot of them will wind up structurally damaged beyond repair, or uninhabitable because of mold or other contamination. The reconstruction effort will have to be huge; I can't think of anything comparable other than maybe bombed-out German and Japanese cities after WWII. |
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08-30-2005, 02:37 PM | #431 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Quote:
I agree with you 110%. Is the red cross able to get to these areas? By the way, did anyone here the red X/black X story out of Gulfport? That was chlling.
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08-30-2005, 02:39 PM | #432 | |
Rider Of Rohan
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Quote:
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It's not the years...it's the mileage. |
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08-30-2005, 02:40 PM | #433 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
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08-30-2005, 02:47 PM | #434 |
n00b
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Chemical Soldier,
Yes, suffering is suffering. The husband who lost is wife to Katrina will mourn as deeply as the husband who lost his wife to the tsunami, and I in no way mean to suggest that we owe the people of New Orleans and Mississippi any less help and compassion, simply because they had advanced warning and many were able to flee. I guess that I am talking more about the way in which the story has been covered, than about the actual experiences of those directly affected by Katrina. Do I blame the mayor of Biloxi for making the original comparison? No, he is just trying to find words to express his sense of total devastation--and here I think that Jim in Middle GA had a good initial point. Do I blame a news outlet for trumpeting that quote as if the carnage inflicted by Katrrina was, in fact, as widespread and deadly as the tsunami? Yes, I do, and the person who commented on how news outlets in Chicago are proclaiming that a Katrina-related rise in gas prices was about to hit us all, as if that was in some way comparable to what the people of New Orleans and Biloxi are suffering, is just another example of how the news media (and if I were to change my original post, I would substitute "news media and some Americans" for "American people") makes no effort to establish a sense of proportion among the various events it covers. Every event, every problem, is the worst one ever. It makes it hard for people who rely on the media to get their information to understand what is going on. Last edited by Yuskevich : 08-30-2005 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Momentary outbreak of illiteracy |
08-30-2005, 02:47 PM | #435 |
Hall Of Famer
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A few random things ... just saw pictures on FoxNews of firefighters trying to battle a structure blaze while standing in what looked to be nearly waist deep waters themselves ... from the WWL-TV newsblog "2:30 P.M. - Coast Guard says it has rescued 1,200 people so far in Louisiana. ... 2:01 P.M. - Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard says there is no plumbing and the sanitary situation is getting nasty. He told WAFB-TV that he is carrying around a bag for his own human waste. ... 1:08 P.M. - "I'm very hopeful, with the devastation we've had, that the number (of deaths) will be much more reasonable than people think. There are not thousands of people floating around." -- Terry Ebbert, New Orleans' homeland security chief. ... 12:44 P.M. - (AP) The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port did NOT suffer major damage as a result of Hurricane Katrina. And a port official says the flow of oil could resume within "a matter of hours" once its power supply is restored.
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08-30-2005, 02:50 PM | #436 | |
Red-Headed Vixen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
So then the National Guard essentially is running the places under Martial Law? |
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08-30-2005, 02:51 PM | #437 | |
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I grew up about a mile from where you are staying and, when I was in law school, lived right down the street from McCain Mall. |
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08-30-2005, 02:52 PM | #438 | |
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Quote:
I do not have a link, I heard it on CNN. Anyway, for some reason they can not extract people from the houses. The rescue squads are going to house to house. If they people are alive but injured, they put a Red X. If they are dead, the put a black X. I also heard that Jefferson Parrish is going to be closed for five weeks.
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08-30-2005, 02:56 PM | #439 |
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By the way, comparing disasters is downright stupid.
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08-30-2005, 03:09 PM | #440 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springfield, USA
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3:07 P.M. - Governor Blanco: We are looking for ways to get people out of the Superdome and out of New Orleans said Governor Blanco as she tried to keep from crying.
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08-30-2005, 03:31 PM | #441 |
Coordinator
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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the water in downtown NO is still rising
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08-30-2005, 03:34 PM | #442 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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According to reports, it looks like at least a month before my parents will be able to go back to their home.
I was OK yesterday, but I'm just numb right now. |
08-30-2005, 03:55 PM | #443 |
College Prospect
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nuremberg, Germany
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I just want to say that my heart and my thoughts are for all the people of the New Orleans area hit by this terrible disaster.
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08-30-2005, 04:08 PM | #444 | |
The boy who cried Trout
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
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Quote:
Yes, I agree the recover will take time, but it will hardly be forever. Many of the old buildings in the French Quarter are made of store. They will survive, as will the people. |
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08-30-2005, 04:13 PM | #445 |
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http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8CAC7E80.html
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - With much of the city flooded by Hurricane Katrina, looters floated garbage cans filled with clothing and jewelry down the street in a dash to grab what they could. In some cases, looting on Tuesday took place in full view of police and National Guard troops. ... At a drug store on Canal Street just outside the French Quarter, two police officers with pump shotguns stood guard as workers from the Ritz-Carlton Hotel across the street loaded large laundry bins full of medications, snack foods and bottled water. "This is for the sick," Officer Jeff Jacob said. "We can commandeer whatever we see fit, whatever is necessary to maintain law." Another office, D.J. Butler, told the crowd standing around that they would be out of the way as soon as they got the necessities. "I'm not saying you're welcome to it," the officer said. "This is the situation we're in. We have to make the best of it." The looting was taking place in full view of passing National Guard trucks and police cruisers. One man with an armload of clothes even asked a policeman, "can I borrow your car?" Some in the crowd splashed into the waist-deep water like giddy children at the beach. I thought about this earlier, but reading this story really elevated the profile of it in my mind: New Orleans isn't exactly known for being the most law-abiding city in the country. If the looting mentality gets a little momentum, and officials don't manage to clear out the vast majority of the people still in the city, I wouldn't be surprised if the eventual death toll from the crime rivaled the toll of the hurricane itself.
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08-30-2005, 04:21 PM | #446 |
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This might sound like a stupid question, but is there any place that has satellite imagery of New Orleans and the damage there?
My brother is afraid that everything he has (had?) is gone, since the levees broke on the Ponchtrain and he's heard that 80% of New Orleans is underwater. Any ideas of where I might find this kind of info? /tk
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08-30-2005, 04:24 PM | #447 | |
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Quote:
Therein lies the problem for me. The first quote is from someone that should, by all rights, be shot for looting. The second is from someone following the basic instinct to survive in this situation. I figure troops should stop as many as they can that they see looting. Check what they're holding. If it's dry clothing and food, look the other way. If it's jewelry or electronics (I guarantee there are people dumb enough to drag DVD players through the water) or other luxuries, shoot 'em.
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08-30-2005, 04:46 PM | #448 |
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What a terrible disaster.
I wish the people in New Orleans and area good luck in the rebuilding process.
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08-30-2005, 05:02 PM | #449 | |
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Quote:
ditto... I am so sad to see the people of one of my favorite cities in the US suffer so...
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08-30-2005, 05:54 PM | #450 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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I am ashamed to admit I cracked wise in the days leading up to the hurricane that if God were to smite an American city, obviously his first choice would be New Orleans. I feel incredibly horrible about this; I spent 11 months in Biloxi when I was in the service.
I was in NYC during 9/11, and, honestly, this (Katrina) looks much, much worse, but I agree, comparing disasters is stupid. I don't know ANYBODY in the area, but I am still very sad about all this. I hope New Orleans comes back; I'd love to visit it again. |
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