NFL "Teams Behaving Badly" Thread: 2015

[Dutch]

So I guess it's possible that the Colts kept the balls inflated to 12.5 - 13.5 during the game to keep Luck comfortable with how he likes the footballs...without evidence of wrong-doing, who knows...

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

If the Patriots are found guilty of inflation violation I fully expect the Packers to receive the same punishment since this is all about the rules right?

For the 15th time, Rodgers said back in November that he likes the ball inflated to the highest allowed (13.5 PSI). Then, in an interview last week, he was asked about his comments and he said that he was frustrated with the refs because he preps the balls at 13.5 PSI (allowed by the rules) and they always deflate them to 13 PSI as part of their inspection. His comment was why should they be deflated to 13 PSI if 13.5 is allowed under the rules.

At no point did he admit to (or be found doing) monkeying with the balls after the refs inspect them. That's the issue here. Beat them with a tire iron, deflate them to 9 PSI or rip the top layer of leather off before the refs inspect them. If the refs allow it, it's on them. But what the initial evidence is showing is that after the balls were checked to be at 13 PSI, someone on the Pats side deflated them to 10.5 PSI by halftime. That's where the violation occurred.

[mckerney]

Woah, they found evidence showing someone on the Patriots sideline deflating footballs?

Also breaking rules is breaking rules, whether you manage to slip something by the officials or not. Integrity of the game and all.

[mckerney]

NFL bears plenty of blame for #DeflateGate | ProFootballTalk

But what has the NFL really found? As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

They did? When? All I read was that the NFL was investigating.

BB lays out a scenario where the footballs could become under-inflated though non-nefarious means. This should be reproducible by anyone if he is correct.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, but horseshit.

They found that 11 of the 12 balls the Patriots were responsible for were below the legal limit. The last I heard was 2 PSI below the legal limit for each of the 11 balls, although somebody in this thread is saying now that 10 of them were 'only' 1 PSI below the legal limit.

BB's "scenario" ignores the fact that not one of the Colts' footballs deflated to below the legal limit. Remember, the legal spread is only 12.5-13.5 PSI. Any deflation that happened by "non-nefarious means" to the Patriots should also have happened to the Colts when you're talking about deflation of 1-2 PSI, unless the argument you want to make is that the Colts inflate to the max and that meant all of their balls just happened to rest at the legal 12.5 lower bounds.

Seems like that'd be easy enough to answer. Ask the Colts "what do you inflate to?" Colts answer: "13.5 PSI." Look at results of (say) 12.5 PSI for Colts balls. Oh okay Belicheck is probably telling the truth.

Hold press conference, "this is what we found. The Patriots did nothing wrong."

Instead of this song and dance. I'm sorry, horseshit. There is no scenario - NONE - where only the Patriots' footballs can be affected by whatever scenario caused deflation on that level unless either the Colts inflate to the maximum level allowed, or some kind of chicanery was going on in Foxboro. That doesn't mean they had a ballboy with a needle letting the air out of the ball, necessarily, but it does mean that Belicheck's scenario only holds water under a specific set of circumstances which would be reasonably easy to determine.

[Solecismic]

The rules are very specific about what is a legal ball. That includes inflation to 12 1/2 - 13 1/2 PSI. But they aren't specific about anything else but this:

"The referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications."

The rest of the wording of Rule 2 (The Ball) indicates that balls are offered for play before every play. In other words, the referee is the sole judge and must make that judgment before each play begins.

That leaves too much to the referee, IMO. There's a lot going on, and without a gauge, even a quarterback probably can't tell the exact PSI of a ball.

It sounds like, to me, that the Patriots furnish balls that are fairly close to the minimum and assume if there's a problem, the referee will take the ball out of play.

If the referee takes a ball out of play, the rule indicates how he obtains a replacement. But since, under the rules, he is the sole judge of when that takes place, what happened in the third quarter is exactly what should happen under the rules. No penalty, other than Brady has to deal with footballs that he didn't necessarily approve.

The NFL can rule, if there's evidence, that someone tampered with the balls during the game. That may have happened. Still, the referee handled it correctly under the rules. Further penalty may be appropriate if and only if there was tampering during the game.

But if they supplied 12.5 PSI balls and they deflated naturally during the game, the only appropriate penalty is that Brady risked having to use balls from the Indianapolis backup supply. Which didn't seem to make a difference.

I think a change to the procedure is warranted. A ball locker, guarded by an NFL employee with a pressure gauge. But that's for the future, not for now.

In the meantime, unless there's evidence that someone doctored the balls during the game, I think it's long past time to leave Belichick and Brady to prepare for what's going to be a very long and difficult game.

[CU Tiger]

We need in ball monitors like TPMS systems and they can report to a remote server and fox can add a psi graphic.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

We need in ball monitors like TPMS systems and they can report to a remote server and fox can add a psi graphic.

as long as it's the same sensor that can pinpoint the location of the ball for spotting purposes, hell yes.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Woah, they found evidence showing someone on the Patriots sideline deflating footballs?

Also breaking rules is breaking rules, whether you manage to slip something by the officials or not. Integrity of the game and all.

What rule did Rodgers and the Packers break?

[BishopMVP]

Well, that's interesting. HeadSmart Labs "DeflateGate" Study - YouTube Clearly a conspiracy by the Colts - they knew they didn't have a chance on the field, so they deliberately overinflated their footballs and then got the refs to check them at the beginning of halftime before they warmed up again!

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Arles

What rule did Rodgers and the Packers break?

Simms: I don’t know if I did, because the quarterbacks got tired of them complaining. But he said something [that] was unique: 'I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.' Because he thinks it’s easier for him to grip. He likes them tight. Of course, he’s got very big hands and you can tell that by watching him play.

Nantz: You’ve never heard of a guy really desiring a football to be fat and overinflated before, have you?

Simms: Everybody wants it smaller and soft, so they can dig their fingers into. He’s such a feel thrower. You can tell. The one touchdown he threw down the field to the tight end is such feel; then he flicks it. That shows you he just has great control of it, with his fingers and hand.

Nantz: He said, 'God gave me big hands and a strong grip.'

Simms: You know, the officials do check those footballs and sometimes maybe even get lucky and put an extra half pound of air in there to help Aaron Rodgers out.

Seems like Phil Simms was under the impression that Rodgers tries to get balls over the limit past the officials. The officials might let it slip past them and allow it, but rules are rules and it'd still be in violation.

[SirFozzie]

Scientists agree that a football will lose air pressure when moved to a cooler place - Metro - The Boston Globe

So, it looks like the science behind Belichick's theory is at least plausible, perhaps probable. I think without a smoking gun (video of someone deflating the balls),they can't really do much besides perhaps a fine for having equipment that is not within the lines..

I think that they're going to set up new rules to prevent it going forward, but everything I'm reading (including the fact that most of the balls were much closer to being regulation then previously reported, within 1 PSI), means this is pretty much a non-story.

(of course, my Patriots bias could be showing)

edit: An independent Pittsburgh lab (Headsmart Lab) did a test of footballs, and found that it could drop up to 2 PSI from field/weather conditions alone. Now, I will put the caveat in there, that this is just a press release, and it's definitely not rising to the level of a full scientific study (only 12 balls), but reading the release they put out, yeah, this is a non-story.

https://uploads.strikinglycdn.com/fi...eflateGate.pdf

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Scientists agree that a football will lose air pressure when moved to a cooler place - Metro - The Boston Globe

So, it looks like the science behind Belichick's theory is at least plausible, perhaps probable. I think without a smoking gun (video of someone deflating the balls),they can't really do much besides perhaps a fine for having equipment that is not within the lines..

I think that they're going to set up new rules to prevent it going forward, but everything I'm reading (including the fact that most of the balls were much closer to being regulation then previously reported, within 1 PSI), means this is pretty much a non-story.

(of course, my Patriots bias could be showing)

edit: An independent Pittsburgh lab (Headsmart Lab) did a test of footballs, and found that it could drop up to 2 PSI from field/weather conditions alone. Now, I will put the caveat in there, that this is just a press release, and it's definitely not rising to the level of a full scientific study (only 12 balls), but reading the release they put out, yeah, this is a non-story.

https://uploads.strikinglycdn.com/fi...eflateGate.pdf

Were the Colts' balls used in a different atmosphere?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Were the Colts' balls used in a different atmosphere?

and rubbed in the same way? Who knows. But the league hasn't pointed to anything that states the Pats had anything to do with it, and until then, it's a non-story.

[SackAttack]

lol

[Kodos]

You guys are DESPERATE for it to be a non-story.

[jeff061]

At this point I'm just desperate for the story to end. Nothing is going to change until the NFL gets off their asses and says something. I don't understand the strategy to deflect until after the Bowl. Whatever gains they think they are getting are being offset by how straight incompetent they are coming off as. They still haven't spoken to Brady yet.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Kodos

You guys are DESPERATE for it to be a non-story.

And ESPN continues to make stuff up to keep it being a story.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by jeff061

At this point I'm just desperate for the story to end. Nothing is going to change until the NFL gets off their asses and says something. I don't understand the strategy to deflect until after the Bowl. Whatever gains they think they are getting are being offset by how straight incompetent they are coming off as. They still haven't spoken to Brady yet.

Well that's a lose-lose. Could you imagine the outcry from those who dont give a fuck if Brady was pulled from team meeting by the NFL to discuss deflategate for a few hours?

[jeff061]

I think 5 minutes of planning would circumvent that issue. Over the course of 2 weeks I think Brady could squeeze an hour or 2 in.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

3) Speaking of the Colts, why did their balls not drop?

I'm 31. At what age does it stop being funny?

[EagleFan]

Again, they cheated and got caught. Freaking deal with it and move on. It's not the first time that dirtbag hoodie has cheated and it won't be the last as he only gets a slap on the wrist at best.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Again, they cheated and got caught. Freaking deal with it and move on. It's not the first time that dirtbag hoodie has cheated and it won't be the last as he only gets a slap on the wrist at best.

That's kind of my point, difficult to move on when the NFL is dragging it out.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This week cannot go quick enough for me.

There has simply been far too much talk about crotch grabbing and deflated balls.

[Chief Rum]

The NFL must, seriously, have the worst crisis management team of ALL TIME.

[Alf]

This is still "not" sorted out ?

[jeff061]

At this point it must be a strategy to put off until after Superbowl. It's just a stupid idea.

[JPhillips]

The GQ article on Goodell is certainly not flattering.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This week cannot go quick enough for me.

There has simply been far too much talk about crotch grabbing and deflated balls.

It's like Michael Jackson never died.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Seems like Phil Simms was under the impression that Rodgers tries to get balls over the limit past the officials. The officials might let it slip past them and allow it, but rules are rules and it'd still be in violation.

Again, there's a difference between handing the officials ball right at the legal limit and seeing if they allow it - instead of deflating it to 13 PSI (which is where the refs have said they put each ball) - and sending the balls for inspection and then deflating them after inspection to be outside of the limit.

The crime here isn't that Brady presented the officials with balls at 11 PSI (under the legal limit) and hoped they would be lazy and accept it. The potential crime here was the officials approved the ball at 13 PSI and then someone on the Pats team/staff deflated them to 10.5 PSI after inspection. I'd say that's a pretty big difference and something Rodgers and the Packers have never been accused of (or even insinuated) of doing.

[Arles]

As much as I hate to defend the league, I think waiting until after the super bowl is the best course of action of you want accuracy. Doing a bunch of Pats team interviews this week would not only be non-productive, it could impact their preparation for the game. Plus, even if they did do something, there's no reason Brady, Belichik or the Pats would be honest prior to the game as they don't want to risk a suspension for the Super Bowl.

The best course for the league is to focus on the game for this week and then do a thorough multi-week investigation once the games ends and people will be a little more forthcoming (and have time to spend being interviewed).

All that said, the odds that a Goodell-led investigation is done properly and transparently are not very high. But, for this one aspect, I can't really fault them.

[jeff061]

Again we are talking about underflated balls. This isn't that complex of a situation. If it's taking more than a day of real effort to figure out, they have nothing. At this point they either have nothing to go on or they want to wait for some other misguided reason.

Still should be nothing but a sidebar item and a 50k fine a week ago, but I digress.

[SackAttack]

tmi.me - JayGlazer: Breaking news:

Jay Glazer reporting that the investigation is focusing on someone who's gonna get thrown under the bus here soon, and that they have video.

We'll see what comes of it.

[jeff061]

I can't imagine that kid can be successfully thrown under the bus. Brady's looking real bad, assuming the kid was deflating them.

Also, a week to find this video? Wonder how long they have really had it. Or did it not occur to them to check video of the balls until 7 days later. Like we've been saying, this isn't rocket science. If they did it there would be video.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I can't imagine that kid can be successfully thrown under the bus. Brady's looking real bad, assuming the kid was deflating them.

Also, a week to find this video? Wonder how long they have really had it. Or did it not occur to them to check video of the balls until 7 days later. Like we've been saying, this isn't rocket science. If they did it there would be video.

The NFL's investigative competence hasn't exactly been seen in the best light this year, so there's that.

Their damage control has left something to be desired also.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I can't imagine that kid can be successfully thrown under the bus. Brady's looking real bad, assuming the kid was deflating them.

Yeah. There's virtually zero chance that a locker room attendant is deflating footballs without Tom Brady's direction/approval/something. At the very beginning of Brady's presser, I thought he stumbled over his words a bit. It was as if he started to say "I had nothing to do with it..." and then changed to "I didn't deflate any footballs." I don't know if a video is around, but I'll do a quick look.

Also, a week to find this video? Wonder how long they have really had it. Or did it not occur to them to check video of the balls until 7 days later. Like we've been saying, this isn't rocket science. If they did it there would be video.

The NFL *might* get a bit of a pass on this one. There are a ton of video cameras in those stadiums. Getting the footage, reviewing it all, AND the story getting leaked may have simply taken a bit of time.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

At the very beginning of Brady's presser, I thought he stumbled over his words a bit. It was as if he started to say "I had nothing to do with it..." and then changed to "I didn't deflate any footballs." I don't know if a video is around, but I'll do a quick look.

OK. I wasn't crazy. Very beginning. Less than 15 seconds in.

[molson]

Shades of Ryan Braun getting dumb legal/pr advice, except Braun's people were at least smart enough to give him a script.

"Listen Tom, tell them you didn't inflate any footballs, not that you didn't have anything to do with it...that way, you're not lying, and nobody can ever criticize you!"

I didn't notice the stumble at first, but the second I heard "I didn't deflate any footballs", it sounded like a defense witness who was heavily coached by a low-rent defense attorney.

[jeff061]

Really wish he just came out and admitted it at his first presser. I don't care what anyone says, this is a stupid issue and would be largely forgotten in a couple months. Brady lying only makes it worse and prolongs it.

[molson]

The lie does make things worse, because it seemingly removes one plausible possibility - Brady did heavily push somebody to deflate the balls as much as possible, but he didn't mean after inspection, and he didn't mean below the legal limit, and the team employee just took things too far.

[Fidatelo]

Brady had to lie because people are looking for scalps and he wants to play in the Super Bowl. By denying it, no matter how likely he is to be lying, he delays any punishment until after, which unless one of the 'suspend him for a season' nutjobs has his way can't possibly be worse than missing Sunday.

[jeff061]

All well and good, going to be one hell of a black eye that I don't think would have been there otherwise.

[molson]

Hopefully Brady and Gisele buy that guy a new house to compensate for the end of his career.

[Sublime 2]

Now Bob Kraft comes out swinging. You'd think that would only happen if they were near 100% certain the NFL had nothing concrete.

What a stupid roller coaster ride before the biggest game in sports.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by jeff061

At this point it must be a strategy to put off until after Superbowl. It's just a stupid idea.

I wonder if they are waiting to see who wins. I mean if they are going to punish the Pats and therefore confirm at least the NFL believes there was some unfair stuff done to the balls ( cheating ? Is a bit strong but many would call it that) it is going to be bad either way for an already tarnished NFL brand. That being said it is a dumpster fire if the Pats are punished now and then win the SB and crowned champs wow!

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

tmi.me - JayGlazer: Breaking news:

Jay Glazer reporting that the investigation is focusing on someone who's gonna get thrown under the bus here soon, and that they have video.

We'll see what comes of it.

Will this be the second accurate rumor to come from this whole fiasco?

(the first and only one so far is that the Patriots were being investigated for having underinflated footballs during the AFC Championship game)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Will this be the second accurate rumor to come from this whole fiasco?

(the first and only one so far is that the Patriots were being investigated for having underinflated footballs during the AFC Championship game)

And the rumor mill swings back against the NFL - Video shows employee taking 24 balls into bathroom | ProFootballTalk

[Arles]

24 balls in the bathroom = 12 angry men

[Zinto]

Report: Man (Probably) Took Piss With Two Bags Of Footballs In Tow

This is pretty much my feeling on this. It really looks like currently the NFL has nothing.

[stevew]

Lol, is referee Walt Anderson sure he actually checked the balls? Maybe he's misremembering.