Heroes : Season 3 - The Offical Thread - spoilers likely

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah... some of them at any rate.

[lordscarlet]

Ah, I think I missed that.

[Anthony]

i made some good points and observations in my Heroes blog, and i make a declaration about Sylar's past re: being a son of the Petrelli's. sorry i haven't posted here much, i prefer to collect my thoughts and put them in one place instead of double posting.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Anthony

i made some good points and observations in my Heroes blog, and i make a declaration about Sylar's past re: being a son of the Petrelli's. sorry i haven't posted here much, i prefer to collect my thoughts and put them in one place instead of double posting.

I don't think Pappa Petrelli was stealing Hiro's powers. More likely he was pulling a Haitian to erase the memories Hiro had of him and that's why Hiro thinks he's 10 (and why Ando was trying to help him "remember" his quest).

Debatable as to whether or not it's smart on Arthur's part to leave Hiro with his powers, but obviously they wanted to leave a powerful potential hero on the good guys side, so apparently the only way the writers could conceive to do this was for Petrelli to erase his memory instead of stealing his powers which is equally as stupid on their part. So different method of getting there than what you wrote, but really, same issues with the quality of how they got there.

[Anthony]

incorrect. the only way Arthur could have had the Haitian's power is if he stole it. and he wouldn't be able to steal the Haitian's power because he wouldn't be able to use his power around the Haitian. trust me - i see all the angles. writer's just flubbed that one.

and the whole fact remains - where this this power come from to make people think they're younger? that's from out of left field. the only thing that would make sense is if he was using Parkman's dad's mind power. but Arthur never stole Parkman's dad's power, he just killed him. big (unexplained) loophole.

[Matthean]

Open mouth, insert foot.

IGN: Could Heroes Move Away From Serialization?

In short, "Hi, I'm an idiot and any success of Heroes has been in spite of me instead of because of me."

[Anthony]

reading that article doesn't make me feel good about the show and the people in charge of it. its starting to come apart at the seams and the creator and main guy doesn't really instill a lot of confidence that the writer's are capable of righting the ship.

[Cringer]

The part that stands out in that article to me is...

Kring explained he had thought they could almost completely replace the characters each season, remarking, "I was primarily fascinated by the origin story. Once the original story is over, and the character has no more questions about what's happening or existential drama, then the questions become just about plot, and then it becomes harder for me personally to connect to."

However, Kring continued that, "The problem is you run into a whole series of issues, where show and business run into each other. The network falls in love with characters, the audience falls in love with characters, the press falls in love with characters. And it's contractually hard to get people onboard for a brief period." As a result, Kring said, "You find yourself writing for characters you thought would be gone."

He had an idea, and it worked great. That idea was for one season though. I still enjoy the show though so I won't rip it too much.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Cringer

The part that stands out in that article to me is...



He had an idea, and it worked great. That idea was for one season though. I still enjoy the show though so I won't rip it too much.

I found that quote to be pretty interesting. One of the reasons that season 1 was so good was the origin stories. The idea of replacing the characters would make the interesting. No surprise though that the business side stepped in and characters had to be kept.

[Anthony]

technically they couldve continued the original characters in some sort of "webisode" type thing where the original characters become a side story that those who were interested in could've followed.

the only thing that article served to do is validate the particular critique's i've had on the show - namely the problem of having 2 or 3 uber powerful people walking among these lesser powerful people with mundane abilities and how the show has to artificially handcuff those characters by alternating who loses their abilities in a given time.

they should've known the plot device of time travel would be too sexy a tool to use too frequently. they should've made it Hiro can teleport - but only in the present - no going into the future or past. they could've given themselves an out by making it so that the Future Hiro who talked to Peter in the subway was able to do so only with some future gained ability, or via some other character who had the ability of time travel.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I found that quote to be pretty interesting. One of the reasons that season 1 was so good was the origin stories. The idea of replacing the characters would make the interesting. No surprise though that the business side stepped in and characters had to be kept.

Yep, and I think that was still the idea halfway through S1, but then, because it became such a hit, that was allowed to happen. Very awesome idea though... I wonder how a complete reboot every season would happen (with the characters from prior seasons in the background some times).

[MikeVic]

Considering that I like character development in a show like this more than anything else, this does not give me confidence.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Anthony

incorrect. the only way Arthur could have had the Haitian's power is if he stole it. and he wouldn't be able to steal the Haitian's power because he wouldn't be able to use his power around the Haitian. trust me - i see all the angles. writer's just flubbed that one..

I mentioned this on your blog, but I think you or I are missing something. Didn't we see Arthur specifically using his ability to erase memories, a la the Haitan, against Angela in the past? Why he has these powers is up for question, but I think it's certain that he does.

[TRO]

Originally Posted by Anthony

incorrect. the only way Arthur could have had the Haitian's power is if he stole it. and he wouldn't be able to steal the Haitian's power because he wouldn't be able to use his power around the Haitian. trust me - i see all the angles. writer's just flubbed that one.

I believe the memory erasing thing was one of Arthur's original powers. In the flashback, you could see that he had the ability to alter Angela's memories and then Linderman used his healing ability to restore the memories. Turning Hiro into a 10 year old is a variant on that power.

[Autumn]

Yes, I think perhaps he was in the midst of erasing all of Hiro's memories when he got interrupted, thus stopping at 10 years old.

I wondered why but then realized that Arthur would already have Hiro's powers through Peter's powers.

[Anthony]

so then the writer's gave arthur 2 powers - putting thoughts in your head and stealing your powers. they didn't do a good job of explaining how he got the ability to steal powers.

[Autumn]

It certainly seems possible that he absorbed the "erase memory" powers from some unknown Hero other than the Haitian a long time ago. I agree that it's foggy but I assume we'll continue to learn more about Arthur as we go along.

[Cringer]

I think Arthur's power just has not been explained well. He seems to have some overall mind control, which not only can erase memories but can also make people feel the way he wants them to. I think one of the main things he did with Angela was not really erase her memory, but he also made her think a certain way. He made her agree that Nathan needed to be killed in the past. He also got into Angela's head when she was dreaming and put her in a coma. To me I wrap it up to mind control at this point, just not explained well and maybe not even defined well even to the writer's themselves....

[Honolulu_Blue]

Arthur's powers seem to be whatever the writers of the show need them to be at the time he's using them. We can probably assume that his original power was to take powers from other people. We have no idea how many other powers he's stolen, so anything he does could simply be explained as a totally separate power that he stole from someone different.

The show cannot write love/romantic scenes or development. The Elle/Sylar scenes and then the Parkman/Speedster were beyond lame in terms of writing, dialogue, and pacing. They have struggled with this in the past.

The Hiro stuff, while amusing, was just kind of silly filler.

I am still not sure what the grand plan is. Arthur wants to "save the world" by giving people super powers. I understand the second part, about the formula and giving people powers. I just don't quite grasp the first part. What exactly is he planning to save the world from? Itself? Global Warming? Freedom? Terror?

I don't get it.

[MikeVic]

So I finally read that IGN article linked earlier... it's news to this guy that time travel is an ugly beast? I thought that was common knowledge to TV, movie, etc. writers.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

So I finally read that IGN article linked earlier... it's news to this guy that time travel is an ugly beast? I thought that was common knowledge to TV, movie, etc. writers.

Reading that article really helps you understand why this show has "progressed" like it has since the first season.

[TazFTW]

It needed more of HRG kicking Sylar's ass.

[Swaggs]

Not sure why this was a two episode arc, as it didn't leave anything overly exciting hanging in the balance.

At least they explained what Arthur could take away from Daphne.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Not sure why this was a two episode arc, as it didn't leave anything overly exciting hanging in the balance.

At least they explained what Arthur could take away from Daphne.

The "cliffhanger" was Sylar kissing Elle, right? Unless something happened after that and I forgot... but if the kiss was the end, then I think that's one of the first times I can remember where a "cliffhanger" was shown in the previews the week before haha.

[Autumn]

I felt like not much happened here that we didn't already know was going to through the paintings (and the damn commercials). Everybody being all confused about where the powers went was kind of annoying. I know it doesn't make any sense, but an eclipse just started guys, I wonder ...

[Autumn]

I think it was two part just because the eclipse will end in the next episode. They think we're on the edge of our seats wondering if their powers will come back.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think it was two part just because the eclipse will end in the next episode. They think we're on the edge of our seats wondering if their powers will come back.

And it's nice that the preview shows Claire Bear doing this awakening thing, like someone that just got their life restored... I wonder why she did that, hmm!!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Not sure why this was a two episode arc, as it didn't leave anything overly exciting hanging in the balance.

You mean aside from Bennett having a sniper rifle trained on Sylar and Elle?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You mean aside from Bennett having a sniper rifle trained on Sylar and Elle?

Ahh I knew there had to be something after the kiss. But then again, the preview showed them all talking or something so I wonder what happens there. l

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Not sure why this was a two episode arc, as it didn't leave anything overly exciting hanging in the balance.

That made me laugh too....it's a serialized show that is still dealing with the same continuing plot lines it has been all season long, why are these two episodes somehow more connected than any other of the previous ones?

I also get some small joy out of how the setting continues to stretch wider and wider, but no matter where in the world any of these people go, they only run into eachother.

[MikeVic]

Oh yeah, and unless I misunderstood, of course that guy they were going after is the Haitian's brother. I bet the fear guy is their cousin, and his kid is Micah.

[Honolulu_Blue]

There were some parts of the episode that I enjoyed.

I still am annoyed at how the show feels the need to explain everything that happens. Characters make these awkward statements about the obvious. It's annoying.

The writers on the show are horrible at writing any sort of romance/love interest.

I don't understand what's going on with Sylar at all. His motivations are a complete mystery. He must be the most impulsive person in the world.

So, is the theory that everyone loses their powers for a little while during the eclipse and then they get them all back once it's over? I hope that's not the case.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I still am annoyed at how the show feels the need to explain everything that happens. Characters make these awkward statements about the obvious. It's annoying.

I don't know what you mean, but I can sense your fear!

[Solecismic]

This time-travel stuff mucks up the story to no end. It's just too powerful a skill, so any type of battle becomes random.

I'm not sure any more who is trying to do what, and The Mohinderfly has become perhaps even more annoying than Nikki/Jessica.

Who did take over for Isaac in drawing the comic? At one point, his drawings were worth killing over. Now, they just magically appear, long after his death, in print?

Elle needs a jealous ex-boyfriend. If they're going to do this random romance stuff, they need to create tension. At least Park Man is competing against his future self.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The writers on the show are horrible at writing any sort of romance/love interest.

I agree. Maybe they should hire me.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This time-travel stuff mucks up the story to no end. It's just too powerful a skill, so any type of battle becomes random.

I like how they were sort of mocking this in the last episode, by referring to Hiro as the "reset button".

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'm not sure any more who is trying to do what, and The Mohinderfly has become perhaps even more annoying than Nikki/Jessica.

I vote Mohinderfly. Nikki/Jessica is at least very easy on the eyes at and a better actor.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Who did take over for Isaac in drawing the comic? At one point, his drawings were worth killing over. Now, they just magically appear, long after his death, in print?

His brother? His sister? I am sure that the African Spiritwalk guy was his father, since they had the exact same power and all, so I bet there's a sibling out there somewhere who took over the mantle.

Either that or Mr. Isaac became really prolific right before his untimely demise.

Didn't Sylar kill him and eat his brain? Maybe Sylar is strill writing the comics. It'd make about as much sense anything else he's done of late.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Elle needs a jealous ex-boyfriend. If they're going to do this random romance stuff, they need to create tension. At least Park Man is competing against his future self.

I will be willing to fall on that sword. I believe the inevitble firey off-screen chemistry between Kristen Bell and myself would translate very well on screen. Despite my lack of any formal training there's really no way I could be any worse than half the cast.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I agree. Maybe they should hire me.

Brilliant idea!

It would be a significant improvement. Significant.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This time-travel stuff mucks up the story to no end. It's just too powerful a skill, so any type of battle becomes random.

I'm not sure any more who is trying to do what, and The Mohinderfly has become perhaps even more annoying than Nikki/Jessica.

Who did take over for Isaac in drawing the comic? At one point, his drawings were worth killing over. Now, they just magically appear, long after his death, in print?

Elle needs a jealous ex-boyfriend. If they're going to do this random romance stuff, they need to create tension. At least Park Man is competing against his future self.

oooooooh baby! jim is on board. i hope you chime in with your excellent American Idol-caliber analysis in this thread. good stuff.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Didn't Sylar kill him and eat his brain?

Claire, that's disgusting.

[thesloppy]

"What's going on?!? WHAT ARE THOSE!??!!???!"

They're fucking crutches, Parkman...are you kidding me?

[ISiddiqui]

I can imagine that after seeing someone be super-duper fast, seeing them in crutches would be a bit shocking.

Anyway, great episode last night.

[MikeVic]

I don't think I'll be posting my thoughts in here until the show improves. I love super hero stuff so I really want to give it a chance to improve next chapter. I just can't say anything good about this last episode.

The line thesloppy quoted was just the first line between those two that was ridiculous. Yeah, he'd be shocked, but would he really ask wtf crutches are? And then Daphne says something about it being a year since the last eclipse? So... wouldn't there have been an eclipse two years ago too, where several of our heroes would discover their powers as well? And I thought last episode ended off with Elle and Sylar standing, hugging/kissing, with HRG having his sniper rifle on them. Then we see them naked on the floor at the start of this episode, HRG misses badly with a shot, then charges in? wtf. Then Sylar losing large amounts of blood while powerless, and then being all fine when their powers return. And then Elle seemingly dieing?? She was one of the main reasons I still watched.

[ISiddiqui]

So no one has ever asked "WTF is that" when its obvious but your are shocked? I'm the only one who has ever done that? I can't imagine that's possible.

Then Sylar losing large amounts of blood while powerless, and then being all fine when their powers return.

And Claire was clinically dead, but all fine when her powers returned. Remember what Claire's power is?

[Autumn]

Yeah, the fact that Daphne could point out to the two of them that she gained her powers on one eclipse, and now has lost them---during an eclipse----and their conclusion is "Arthur must be punishing us." Uh .... yeah.

The writing's definitely slipping, it's too bad. It's become very predictable, except when they're just being idiotic.

[Matthean]

People are trying to find logic holes in a show that just spent two episodes dealing with something that doesn't even last 10 minutes?

[MikeVic]

I know, and that's why I think I said awhile ago things that shouldn't be bugging me, are. I don't know if it's at a point that can be saved for me.

[Cringer]

The nit-pickers are out on this one two eh?

I liked the episode. First, I liked finally seeing Nathan doing something cool with his power. About time there. Second, Hiro going in to "Save the Cheerleader" was fricking great. Even my wife liked that part and she doesn't watch the show as much as my daughter and I.

Sylar is all over the place, but if he can go back to being a one man army not on a side, or just plain away from Arthur, then I am happy with that. Nathan is clearly going with Dad, and this episode was a nice little brother vs. brother prequal it seems in some ways, with the Haitian and his brother having to battle with the other brothers there for it.

[Autumn]

I don't think it's nit-picking to not enjoy watching characters act like idiots. Some shows I watch despite the idiocy (Smallville). But Heroes I like because the plots are clever and the characters are too. When they start walking around like morons (what, the eclipse has something to do with me not having powers?) it takes away from the appeal of the show to me. Which is why the "mystery" of the eclipse is bugging me, as well as the fact that Hiro has acted like a buffoon all season.

But given that, I also enjoyed Hiro saving the cheerleader. I actually turned to my wife and said something like "yes, Hiro's finally doing something awesome with his powers."

I'm still feeling a little stretched on believing this "but giving everyone abilities will save the world" premise, but I liked the way they led Nathan to it at least.

With the way Sylar ended the show, I"m wondering how he ends up all happy and cooking waffles in the future. Has that future been altered already?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

So, is the theory that everyone loses their powers for a little while during the eclipse and then they get them all back once it's over? I hope that's not the case.

Well, I guess it was the case.

Apparently the whole point of the last episode (as was mentioned by multiple characters in many different ways multiple times) was that who you are without your powers is what you really are. So, based on that...

Peter = Hero (we knew that already. He's god*&^% NURSE!)
Sylar = Hero (he was going to sacrifice himself to save Elle, but became a monster all over again)
HRG = Monster (he coldly slit Sylar's throat)
Claire = Scared Little Teenager
Nathan = Hero
Mohinder = Monster (he pummeled Fire Hick into a coma)
Fire Hick = Stupid
Elle = Pretty much the same
Parkman = Pretty much the same
Daphne = Crippled

I liked the Hiro's use of his power as well. It was finally done effectively.

Sylar continues to be wildly inconsistent. I never have any clue what's going on and the writers seem to forget what "state of mind" he's in from episode to episode.

By the way. Whatever happened to Sylar's super hearing? Or his ability to freeze people? Or his ability to make a gun out of his hand and shoot things? He has all of these abilities and uses all of two: Telekinesis and super healing.

I still don't get the whole legion of superhero plot. Maybe Papa Petrelli will finally explain why he's doing this. It seems like he wants to create an army of super-powered soldiers. Is that so he can rule the world? Establish America's dominance? Sell his super syrum for cash? I fear we will never truly get a clear idea of the grand scheme.

Nathan's reasoning made some sense, but Peter really could have been able to bring up better arguments. I mean, remember Ted the Exploding Guy? How safe would the world be if you had a dozen or a hundred of him walking around?

The eclipse thing is also a bit baffling. There was an eclipse at the beginning of the series that apparently manifested all of these powers. Yet, there was an older generation of heroes (Claire's mom, the Petrellis, Parkman's dad, Adam, Hiro's dad, the Invisible guy, Mr. Sulu, Linderman, etc, etc, etc.) who all apparently had their powers for a very long time. So, wouldn't the eclipse that gave the new generation its powers also have temporarily "turned off" all the older people's powers? If that's the case, then why all the panicking and theatrics from Pa Petrelli? I don't think Pa Petrelli was even in the coma when that happened (since Nathan flew before Ma Petrelli poisoned him).

Also, Adam had lived for thousands of years, so wouldn't he have been able to tell them: "Oh yeah, when an eclipse comes, we lose our powers for a while." Speaking of Adam, the second Pa Petrelli stole Adam's powers he super-aged and turned into dust (a cool effect and I liked it. It made sense that without his super healing that prevented his body from aging, his cells aged super fast and he died), but wouldn't Adam have turned to dust the same way any time there was an eclipse during, say, the 20th century?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola

I don't think too much of that is nitpicking. I don't mind shows/movies that stretch the boundaries of reality or what not, especially when they involve peope with super powers. It's just that once you establish the rules of a universe, you really need to abide by the rules, no matter how outlandish they are.

When writers are forced to constantly break or ben the established rules of the universe over and over, I think it's a sign of really poor writing. That's annoying.