2012-2013 MLB Offseason Thread: Go forth to the 2013 MLB Thread

[sterlingice]

It's a Heyman tweet. Probably true but not necessarily:
Angels Acquire Tommy Hanson For Jordan Walden: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Can any Braves fans speak to Hanson? From what I've read, he's dropping MPH like crazy which seems like a prelude to an arm injury.

SI

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Adding Span is a plus for Washington. The trade hinges on Alex Meyer. His only chance of being worth more than Span is if that third pitch Law describes is MLB usable. If not, his ceiling is RP and the Nats would win the trade fairly easily.

SI

I've followed Meyer since the RS tried to sign him for $2 million out of HS... I'd bet strongly against him making it as a front-line starter. For a rebuilding team, not a terrible play, but for a team like the Nationals who have a window (and had a huge hole in the OF) it's a great trade.

[stevew]

I thought Hanson was supposed to be the next big thing as a starter. Seems odd to give up in order to save a few bucks.

[Easy Mac]

Very odd trade, especially when the best you can get is a middle reliever, a spot you don't really have a huge need at with Venters, O'Flaherty, and Pete Moylan. Avilan and Gearin both pitched well last year. Add in Kimbrel, and now the Braves have 7 guys in the pen who over the last year were about as good as you can get.

Beachy looks like he'll be at full strength in June, so I guess they'll trot out Hudson, Maholm, Medlen, Minor and one of Delgado/Teheran until then.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Braves trade Hanson to Angels, free up $4 million in salary | Atlanta Braves

Salary slash, presumably/allegedly to free up $4m for a LF.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Very odd trade, especially when the best you can get is a middle reliever, a spot you don't really have a huge need at with Venters, O'Flaherty, and Pete Moylan. Avilan and Gearin both pitched well last year. Add in Kimbrel, and now the Braves have 7 guys in the pen who over the last year were about as good as you can get.

Beachy looks like he'll be at full strength in June, so I guess they'll trot out Hudson, Maholm, Medlen, Minor and one of Delgado/Teheran until then.

It's still possible, i suppose, that the Braves will attempt to return Walden to SP.

[Big Fo]

Hanson has gotten worse every year since his rookie season and it's quite possible he wouldn't have been one of the top five starters come the spring, so Atlanta had to choose between paying him $4m to possibly pitch out of the pen, trading him for not much, or letting him go for nothing.

I see why they did it, I liked Hanson though. Hopefully he gets back on track out west.

[MrBug708]

I've seen a pretty far-fetched rumor of the Dodgers kicking the tires on King Felix

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I've seen a pretty far-fetched rumor of the Dodgers kicking the tires on King Felix

If this is true maybe we are out of the Greinke sweepstakes...? Or maybe we are just going all in and getting a rotation of #1s.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I've seen a pretty far-fetched rumor of the Dodgers kicking the tires on King Felix

They can kick all the tires they want - the Mariners aren't going to trade him. What do the Dodgers possibly have in their farm system that's close to value for him?

[stevew]

I know he looks like a derp and he's not much better than average, but how the hell do you non tender Jeff Karstens? Sure he's had some injury concerns, but it's only 4m dollars and he's a solid #4-5 starter. The Pirates signing of Martin was their largest FA signing in franchise history. I believe the team has the money to expand this payroll, but they continue to value the bottom line above all else.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

If this is true maybe we are out of the Greinke sweepstakes...? Or maybe we are just going all in and getting a rotation of #1s.

All in. Haven't seen anything more serious than idle rumors.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

I know he looks like a derp and he's not much better than average, but how the hell do you non tender Jeff Karstens? Sure he's had some injury concerns, but it's only 4m dollars and he's a solid #4-5 starter. The Pirates signing of Martin was their largest FA signing in franchise history. I believe the team has the money to expand this payroll, but they continue to value the bottom line above all else.

Twins probably would have given up one of their top specs for Karstens. They love pitchers with limited stuff that need everything to go their way to have any success

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by stevew

I know he looks like a derp and he's not much better than average, but how the hell do you non tender Jeff Karstens? Sure he's had some injury concerns, but it's only 4m dollars and he's a solid #4-5 starter. The Pirates signing of Martin was their largest FA signing in franchise history. I believe the team has the money to expand this payroll, but they continue to value the bottom line above all else.

I wish I understood the rationale of, year after year, overpaying to acquire guys like Erik Bedard, Ryan Church, Rod Barajas, Chan Ho Park, Eric Hinske, Lyle Overbay, Kevin Correia, Ramon Vazquez, (probably Russell Martin) etc. and then not being willing to pay fair market for guys like Derp Karstens, Ryan Doumit or Paul Maholm.

[DanGarion]

Did anyone mention the names on this years HoF ballot?

Jack Morris
Jeff Bagwell
Lee Smith
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martínez
Fred McGriff
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire
Don Mattingly
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Bernie Williams
Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Jeff Cirillo
Royce Clayton
Roger Clemens
Jeff Conine
Steve Finley
Julio Franco
Shawn Green
Roberto Hernández
Ryan Klesko
Kenny Lofton
José Mesa
Mike Piazza
Reggie Sanders
Curt Schilling
Aaron Sele
Sammy Sosa
Mike Stanton
Todd Walker
David Wells
Rondell White
Woody Williams

[stevew]

I saw an article about a poll of voters and it seems impossible that Bonds/Clemens get in this year. Looking at less than 40%

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Did anyone mention the names on this years HoF ballot?

Jack Morris
Jeff Bagwell
Lee Smith
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martínez
Fred McGriff
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire
Don Mattingly
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Bernie Williams
Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Jeff Cirillo
Royce Clayton
Roger Clemens
Jeff Conine
Steve Finley
Julio Franco
Shawn Green
Roberto Hernández
Ryan Klesko
Kenny Lofton
José Mesa
Mike Piazza
Reggie Sanders
Curt Schilling
Aaron Sele
Sammy Sosa
Mike Stanton
Todd Walker
David Wells
Rondell White
Woody Williams

The steroid guys don't interest me nearly as much as the old timers on the ballot. Dale Murphy, Jack Morris, Don Mattingly, Alan Trammell, and Lee Smith are all in double digits when it comes to times on the ballot. Do any of them get in just to spite the steroid guys? I am assuming that most of the voters don't actually believe they should get in since none of them were close last year. Morris was the leader of the old timers with 66.7%.

[miked]

Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza

[JeeberD]

I really hope Biggo and Bagwell get in together...

[molson]

"Dale Murphy, Jack Morris, Don Mattingly, Alan Trammell, and Lee Smith"

All of these guys were considered future hall of famers when I was a kid in the 80s. Maybe that was just exaggerated exuberance of whatever commentators I was listening to at the time, but, I never quite understood how certain guys got locked in as obvious HOFers (Robin Young, Ozzie Smith, Kirby Puckett), and those 5 guys other stars from the 80s have been completely ignored.

[DanGarion]

If I had a ballot this would be it.

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

I look at it this way with McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, and Clemens, regardless of them using steroids. Bonds is the greatest hitter in our generation, Clemens is the greatest pitcher in the past 20 years. And what McGwire and Sosa did for baseball in the late 90s was unprecedented.

[gstelmack]

You're willing to forgive Sammy's "it was just a batting practice bat" incident?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

You're willing to forgive Sammy's "it was just a batting practice bat" incident?

You are talking about the corked bat right? The one that doesn't provide any benefit?

Physics exonerates baseball players' corked bats

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

If I had a ballot this would be it.

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

I look at it this way with McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, and Clemens, regardless of them using steroids. Bonds is the greatest hitter in our generation, Clemens is the greatest pitcher in the past 20 years. And what McGwire and Sosa did for baseball in the late 90s was unprecedented.

No love for Piazza, the best hitting catcher ever? Does he go in as a met or Dodger?

[stevew]

Napoli to the Red Sox for 3/39. I'd love to see the 3 year contract become a trend that all teams follow.

A-Roid to miss the first half of 2013 due to necessary hip surgery. He's such a piece of shit.

[Subby]

Tim Raines
Barry Bonds

Jeff Bagwell
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling

[stevew]

Tim Raines
Edgar Martínez
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens

[Subby]

Originally Posted by stevew

Tim Raines
Edgar Martínez
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens

Can't really argue with that. I need to take a closer look at Edgar.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jack Morris
Tim Raines
Dale Murphy
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza -- over my own objections

I can't quite pull the trigger on
Jeff Bagwell
Fred McGriff
Alan Trammell

I'm further from being able to pull the trigger on
Curt Schilling

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

No love for Piazza, the best hitting catcher ever? Does he go in as a met or Dodger?

Maybe it's just me but I thought including Mike Piazza on the ballot was a gimmie, please reread my ballot...

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Subby

Tim Raines
Barry Bonds

Jeff Bagwell
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling

Shit I forgot about Rock Raines, well I guess Larry Walker gets to wait.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Angel Pagan re-signs with the Giants for 4/$40M. Less than I expected, more than he'll probably be worth. Totally ok with the signing if it keeps Victorino and Bourne off the Giants.

Also, not sure I buy Clemens as the best pitcher of the last 20 years. I think I'd take Maddux or Pedro over him.

[Subby]

Dan Haren to the Nats for 13m/1. Love these low risk contracts.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Angel Pagan re-signs with the Giants for 4/$40M. Less than I expected, more than he'll probably be worth. Totally ok with the signing if it keeps Victorino and Bourne off the Giants.

Also, not sure I buy Clemens as the best pitcher of the last 20 years. I think I'd take Maddux or Pedro over him.

Just pulling numbers real quick and not looking at other specifics (and I won't say WAR is the end all be all, just using it as a quick and dirty choice).

[Toddzilla]

Here's another stupid-ass table

USED STEROIDS AND LIED ABOUT IT
Roger Clemens 1
Greg Maddux 0
Randy Johnson 0
etc...

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Here's another stupid-ass table

USED STEROIDS AND LIED ABOUT IT
Roger Clemens 1
Greg Maddux 0
Randy Johnson 0
etc...

How about this one...

USED STEROIDS AND LIED ABOUT IT
Roger Clemens 1
Greg Maddux Dunno
Randy Johnson Dunno
etc...

Anyway, all I was doing was responding the the specific comment about being unsure if Clemens was even the best pitcher the past 20 years. Considering there was no context that him using steroids factored into that, I don't see why you brought it up.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Subby

Dan Haren to the Nats for 13m/1. Love these low risk contracts.

If I were the Royals, I'd have loved to get in on the action. If only they had something the Angels had wanted for free, like, say, Brandon Sisk, and could trade for him and pick up his option equivalent to that price...

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

How about this one...

USED STEROIDS AND LIED ABOUT IT
Roger Clemens 1
Greg Maddux Dunno
Randy Johnson Dunno
etc...

Anyway, all I was doing was responding the the specific comment about being unsure if Clemens was even the best pitcher the past 20 years. Considering there was no context that him using steroids factored into that, I don't see why you brought it up.

Sure it did - it enabled him to keep pitching at a high level on good teams and inflating the WAR and IP numbers.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Didn't realize Clemens was that far ahead in terms of WAR. I may be wrong about that one

[stevew]

Schilling should be penalized for stealing 100m+ from Rhode Island(and generally being a dickbag)

[Subby]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If I were the Royals, I'd have loved to get in on the action. If only they had something the Angels had wanted for free, like, say, Brandon Sisk, and could trade for him and pick up his option equivalent to that price...

SI

Nats rotation will be pretty sick. I think Haren is going to be an upgrade to Edwin Jackson. Just need to get first base sorted out and maybe add another arm in the pen.

[sterlingice]

And even if Haren isn't healthy, the Nats can survive on what they have- it's just some lost cash that they more than can recoup

SI

[Logan]

I'm conflicted on what I think the Mets should do with Dickey. Part of me loves watching him pitch and I agree with guys like Jonah Keri who think the rotation can be very good next year, and with a little offensive luck, the team could surprise people. But they have so many holes on the roster and are lacking a premium young bat that it would be tough to say no to a deal. I'd also hate to see any major regression and lose that valuable trade chip.

[RedKingGold]

I heard the Phillies might sign someone this off-season.

[Crapshoot]

Bidding on Scutaro is at 3/24 according to Buster Olney. Great guy, but at that price for a 37 year old, my gut is that the Giants should opt out. I would not give him more than 2 years, and allocate the funds towards a LF/RF (Nick Swisher?) who might take more.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Maybe it's just me but I thought including Mike Piazza on the ballot was a gimmie, please reread my ballot...

I meant on first attempt

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I meant on first attempt

I don't understand what you are talking about, Piazza was on my ballot from the start.

[Lathum]

Dale Sveum, Chicago Cubs manager, shot by Robin Yount, Milwaukee Brewers Hall of Famer, in offseason hunting accident - ESPN Chicago

[molson]

Red Sox sign Shane Victorino to exactly the same contract terms as they gave to Mike Napoli. That doesn't make a ton of sense, but the Red Sox will be under budget this year, so it really doesn't matter, it's not like the money would have been spent elsewhere. It's just nice to get more warm bodies in there that weren't members of the 2012 team.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dale Sveum, Chicago Cubs manager, shot by Robin Yount, Milwaukee Brewers Hall of Famer, in offseason hunting accident - ESPN Chicago

wow. that was double-take inducing.