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View Poll Results: Who will take the White House? | |||
Obama | 151 | 68.95% | |
McCain | 63 | 28.77% | |
Surprise? (Maybe Mr. Trout?) | 5 | 2.28% | |
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll |
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09-13-2008, 01:44 PM | #4401 |
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I guess I should have said "hypothetical" instead of "future". I really don't know if these are a priority or not from the next Congress but I can envision that if the Dems increase its numbers and Obama claims a mandate, the temptation will be there for political special interest favors (e.g., the union voters secure Michigan and Ohio) and revenge (e.g., against the last 8 years).
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09-13-2008, 02:36 PM | #4402 | |
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Quote:
Wow, this is even better than your Mercury Morris inspired meltdown in last year's Super Bowl thread. Election season continues to bring the goods on FOFC. Whether McCain or Obama wins, it's a shame that in November this kind of entertainment will be brought to a close for the next four years. Last edited by Big Fo : 09-13-2008 at 02:36 PM. |
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09-13-2008, 03:56 PM | #4403 |
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Im not a big fan of Alan Greenspan but it is what it is:
Greenspan: Country can't afford McCain's tax cuts - Yahoo! News
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09-13-2008, 04:17 PM | #4404 | |
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Quote:
Nope. Downtown McDonough. |
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09-13-2008, 05:02 PM | #4405 | |
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Quote:
For those who don't click on the link, Greenspan's opinion includes the caveat--"without a corresponding cut in government spending." Really, I would hope we would have that information in the post, rather than having to go to the link to look for it (at least it's in the first graf).
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09-13-2008, 05:27 PM | #4406 | ||
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Quote:
I didnt want to put an opinion on the article and I feel/felt like the long articles that get quoted in here, unfortunately, dont get read by most people. Which may be symbolic of how I feel about American's willingness to do their own research when looking at issues. The title is Yahoo's...i didnt make it. here's the article though: Quote:
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09-13-2008, 05:42 PM | #4407 | |
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Quote:
But you read the article yourself right? So you knew that was in there. You profess to believe that people don't read long articles (I agree), and I would even go further to say they rarely read average length articles or click on the link. They probably read the headline posted and that is it. Given all that, you chose to not include that information? It doesn't come off as nearly so strong a criticism of McCain in your post if you include it. But at least now you have put up the article in the post, so good move there.
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09-13-2008, 05:45 PM | #4408 |
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I wasnt praising or criticizing even after reading it. Just simply posting ALL the info i find pro or con. Now some could say I dont find an equal amount because I dont frequent ANY blogs and generally find myself on Yahoo news or CNN so I guess any arguments there would be true. the only criticism I have, of the article above is whether or not Greenspan has any credibility to say anything to anyone about the system. The rest people can read on their own BUT...
People dont read the long articles and if I clip out stuff to suit my liking Ill get blasted by one side or the other.
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09-13-2008, 05:49 PM | #4409 | |
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this is just coming out so bear with me while I roll it out:
Palin never in Iraq, campaign now says... So Chief this will be a test, cuz it's a really long article but Im going to post the WHOLE thing Quote:
Now THIS pisses me off, the article from Greenspan does not. Lying should not be allowed!!! This will be my opinionated post...because the innuendo, the "sale" of this crap to us, is not right!!
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09-13-2008, 05:53 PM | #4410 |
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Why wouldn't they have highlighted that part since that certainly is the biggest conditional factor there is? Everything (economically in regards to the federal govt) hinges upon reductions in government spendings, as many have been saying for years. Maybe that counters the prevailing trend in the campaigns and in the actions of Congressional legislation?
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09-13-2008, 05:56 PM | #4411 | |
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Quote:
The goal is to be blasted by both. That way, you can rest easy knowing you did your best to be fair and balanced.
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09-13-2008, 06:00 PM | #4412 | |
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This is from a Pro-McCain blog (which I dont read blogs so I did a search on Google and it took me to this one):
Palin Has Visited Iraq War Theater; Visited Wounded Troops in Germany -- Unlike Obama | BLOGS FOR JOHN McCAIN Quote:
this is a HUGE deal to me...not whether or not she went but the fact that they made such a big deal about it and now it comes out to be far from the actual truth.
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09-13-2008, 06:00 PM | #4413 | |
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Because I think the whole article loses credibility when it hinges on Greenspan. I think he blew it and lost credibility with me so him talking bad about any camp or any qualifications is garbage...to me.
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09-13-2008, 06:01 PM | #4414 | |
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You're right. We have never been lied to before by politicians. No, I don't like dishonesty either, but I find it hard to get up much gumption about politicians being misleading and straight dishonest during a campaign. If there was a way to keep them honest, I would certainly be for it, but there isn't it. Certainly, Obama and the Dems aren't honest either. It's the actions while in office that piss me off, the stuff that actually hurts people.
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09-13-2008, 06:03 PM | #4415 | |
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Quote:
If Greenspan's opinion means so little to you, why post it?
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09-13-2008, 06:03 PM | #4416 | |
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Quote:
hmmm, not me. Any lying pisses me off.
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09-13-2008, 06:04 PM | #4417 |
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to post ALL....like I said, Im sorry if that was a mistake but it was an article nonetheless, from what I consider to be a credible newssource, and people may think differently of the people in the article. Not everyone has to think like me but I think we're in the mess we are in now because of Greenspan (plus other things).
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09-13-2008, 06:05 PM | #4418 |
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I wish I could live in your ideal world. I would be a much happier person. Unfortunately, the real world tends to slap people like this up something harsh. For your heart, I advise you to stay the course. For your health and long term personal benefit, I strongly urge a more pragmatic approach.
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09-13-2008, 06:08 PM | #4419 | |
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you are 100% correct. It is a problem for me. It causes my anxiety to go through the roof. It has led my wife to make commentary about my longevity. It absolutely raises my stress level to levels most people dont run 'average' on. I just have a hard time accepting it while others seem to be able to be more pragmatic about it. I dont know if you were trying to be sarcastic or slap me, but in essence, youre right. This Palin Iraq trip thing is going to effect my whole night.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 09-13-2008 at 06:09 PM. |
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09-13-2008, 06:09 PM | #4420 | |
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Quote:
But there are so many more articles out there that you could post. Why do you choose that one? Why do you always choose ones that criticize Republicans, for instance, but you don't seem to post much against the Dems? You're clearly applying your own bias in choosing what to post, but you're trying to hide behind some white knight objective virtue of providing all information for all. Really, why try to hide your bias? To do so is as dishonest on its own scale as what the Repubs have done in their campaign (fortunately, you're only talking to us). It's when I see such clear bias, and then you post articles and don't provide the whoel picture and then you backpedal from the article like a politician, that I get disgusted. Let the politicians be dirty. You're no doubt in most things, a good, earnest hard-working man with a steadfast set of beliefs--don't throw them away to earn points on a message board.
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09-13-2008, 06:12 PM | #4421 |
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on this youre wrong. Youll notice almost all my articles simply come from 2 places, Yahoo or CNN. It is what it is. When they post an article showing lying amongst the dems Ill be sure to hammer them too.
Actually in thinking about it...I almost always have posted full articles, to the detriment of getting my point across, since most people skip the long ones, while others clip out their stuff to prove their point.
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09-13-2008, 06:12 PM | #4422 | |
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No, I offered that up earnestly. I don't wish ill on anyone, no matter how we may disagree. I certainly hope you choose the path in life that leads to the highest fullfillment of your potential happiness. I am just expressing my doubt that an idealist approach will lead you to that path. It's an admirable approach that takes courage, but there is an element of fantasy to it, too. That's really not a comment on you, but on the world in which you live. The world sucks.
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09-13-2008, 06:15 PM | #4423 | |
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Quote:
On that post of yours, you know me and my troubles better than you think.
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09-13-2008, 06:15 PM | #4424 | |
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Quote:
I haven't done any statistcal analysis of your posts, so you may very well be right. And it's not about the source, but the choice of articles (and, occasionally, the choice of explanation in the post, such as with the Greenspan article). That said, my compeltely unscientific impression says you lean far to the left, and your article posting is much the same. I have a feeling a few other board members would agree with me.
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09-13-2008, 06:17 PM | #4425 |
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BTW, this is a focus on you, but that's not fair to you. There are far, far more people here who wouldn't know fair and balanced if it came up and kicked them in the ass, and your attempt to do so is a far cry further than they ever bother to go. So for that, you should be commended, even if I decry the results.
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09-13-2008, 06:18 PM | #4426 |
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09-13-2008, 06:19 PM | #4427 | |
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Perhaps you should reexamine your choice of signature.
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09-13-2008, 06:21 PM | #4428 | |
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I do lean left but not far left and actually somewhat understand the idea of less government, and could see it being beneficial. Not sure how we get there thougha nd I know that our deficit is crying to be fixed. I dont see how to do that with less int he form of taxes. When it comes to socially I lean left but not to the legalizing drugs sort of stuff. Is it possible that most of the articles I see on CNN and Yahoo news have shown the GOP lying more? Is it possible that they are lying more? I would love to post some stuff showing Obama lying so when i find it I will, but I gotta tell ya, it's not easy to find right now...at least not as easy as the GOP Palin stuff (which the GOP will argue because of the media bias) I just dont go to Fox and i dont go to Blogs of any kind, either side. (I actually dont get blogging in general). Over the last 8 years of W in office and this campaign I can see how they would view me as a lefty, no doubt, but I think almost every neutral person in the room would argue that Ari Fleischer, mclellen, W, Cheney, and the admin has been caught in an ungodly amount of lying over the long while and now we have some coming out too on the GOP front. What can I do? and I appreciate your backhanded compliment On the topic at hand, is anyone else pissed about Palin NOT going to Iraq after that was a cornerstone of the equivalency between she and Obama's trips?
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 09-13-2008 at 06:27 PM. |
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09-13-2008, 06:26 PM | #4429 |
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BTW the idea of less government and less spending, falls on hollow ground with the GOP eventhough its their mantra (not saying the left get to claim it either) because theyve done neither when in command but that's probably for another thread at another time.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 09-13-2008 at 06:26 PM. |
09-13-2008, 06:35 PM | #4430 | |
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That is absolutely true, which is why one should not support either party and in the least, vote for a split-party government. |
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09-13-2008, 07:16 PM | #4431 |
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09-13-2008, 07:53 PM | #4432 | |
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The candidates seem to be on the same page as eachother and in all honesty I wish I could or knew the right answer to this situation. On the one hand I feel like were on the edge of a massive financial meltdown and on the other I hope that we're just hitting a soft reset button and should be alright in a little while. Should Lehman be bailed out? I dont know but I definitely feel sorry for the people who may have some power to wield that could affect this because theyre damned if they do, and damned if they dont.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080913/...ue_politics_dc Quote:
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09-13-2008, 07:58 PM | #4433 | ||
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I'm going to go with "because history is against it". Reagan was awful at controlling the budget as were both Bushes. So, promising tax cuts as a bribe to the electorate usually results in better votes. The eliminating spending part has never happened so why should we expect things to change? Quote:
I never saw you advocating for Kerry in 2004 and the best our budget has been in the last 30 years was with a Democrat in the White House and Republican Congress. Why the change of tune now? SI
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09-13-2008, 09:48 PM | #4434 | ||
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Quote:
That has been answered twice now. Quote:
Fixed that for you. All budgets were "DOA" from the opposition President, as well as from their own president to some extent. Have you ever seen Congress passed less than what the Presidents have proposed? With Presidents not having the balls to veto (lest their approval ratings go down), Congress can and have run away with spending. They best thing they can do is pass tax cuts if they take in a surplus. All Congress (and Presidents, if you think they have something to do with it) can hope for is another private sector technology boom so that they can pass enormous un-Constitutional legislations without feeling completely guilty. |
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09-13-2008, 09:51 PM | #4435 |
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Watching CNN's revealed on Joe biden and god damnit does his support of the new Bankruptcy bill piss me off. Truly hurts the middle class and right as the economy was on the precipice of imploding. Talk about crappy timing.
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09-13-2008, 10:17 PM | #4436 |
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Wait... since when has Palin made a big deal about visiting troops IN Iraq? All I had heard was that she visited Iraqi troops in Kuwait.
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09-13-2008, 10:24 PM | #4437 | |||||||
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i posted a link to just one of the blogs touting it, Ill find the insinuation since you doubt it apparently from your tone.
just starting but... Quote:
Really? I didnt hear their speeches where she said she went to Kuwait to visit...I always heard that they insinuated she visited Iraq and therefore had foreign policy experience. Honestly, the thought is that they didnt intend on having people think that? wow. New Palin Problem: Report Says She Did Not Visit Iraq As Claimed Quote:
spin away but i believe this is a lie.... Palin campaign modifies Iraq visit claim - UPI.com Quote:
Just in case this is on Fox News Palin to Iraq: Did She or Didn’t She? « FOX Embeds « FOXNews.com Quote:
From the CNN article, which leads me to believe that if they come out and say the aide was mistaken they could wash their hands of it but I doubt they'll take that tact: Quote:
Sarah Palin Never Visited Troops in Iraq, Contrary to Campaign's Claim Quote:
I have seen the talking point thrown about that she, herself, never ssaid the words about Iraq but her campaign did....so I guess you could use this opportunity to defend her by sayingyou can only take her words exactly. But that would cause problems with other statements, like the 'Iraq war for god' stuff since she explained to Charlie Gibson that she meant something a little different by that, etc. Very slippery slope for any politician. From MSNBC: Quote:
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09-13-2008, 10:46 PM | #4438 |
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DOLA, so everyone in the world is wrong about this I?
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09-13-2008, 10:48 PM | #4439 |
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Well they all mention aides said X... nothing about the candidate herself saying she was in Iraq.
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09-13-2008, 10:50 PM | #4440 | |
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Quote:
Slippery slope, wanna start digging up her quotes and other people's quotes to hold them to exactness? Both camps will hate that world I'd think.
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09-13-2008, 10:52 PM | #4441 |
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We already live in that world.
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09-13-2008, 10:56 PM | #4442 |
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The problem, as I see it, with the "Palin not actually having gone to Iraq" thing, is that it's another example of a blatant lie, or at least stating that something's 100% true ("she visited troops in Iraq") when it is, in fact, 1% true ("she visited troops in Kuwait who had been in Iraq').
It's the same thing with the "she has foreign policy experience because Alaska is next to Russia" thing. Yes, Alaska is next to Russia. No, it's not very likely that she ever dealt with Russia itself as that part of Russia (and the U.S., for that matter) is almost completely uninhabited and Moscow is 4000 miles and 8 time zones away. I view this differently from "lies", say, about taxation. McCain may say, for instance, that he'll cut taxes overall. Well, if you look at overall taxation in dollar amounts, that's true, although if you look at it on a "# of taxpayers affected", it's probably not true. It's a fungible point, as are a lot of policy issues. There's context there and people see things through a different lens. But that's not what these lies about Palin's trip to Iraq (didn't happen) and Ireland (stopped to refuel), her "foreign policy experience", the "bridge to nowhere", her lobbying for earmarks, her former opposition and now support of stem cell research, etc... are. These are simply blatant mistruths, and it's insulting to the intelligence of the average American voter. Of course, it's possible the McCain campaign is just that cynical (and may be correct), and given Steve Schmidt's leadership that's pretty likely, but it's still very, very disappointing. |
09-13-2008, 11:04 PM | #4443 |
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the funniest part (but pisses me off) is it's such a silly and unnecessary spin.
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09-13-2008, 11:05 PM | #4444 |
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I think most voters don't care at all if Palin or Biden has been to Ireland or Iraq or Madagascar. Well, lets put it this way: The voters who haven't made up their mind already about Palin are not likely to be moved by this.
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09-13-2008, 11:08 PM | #4445 |
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your post may be very true as I seem to be extra sensitive to accuracy. So my fire may not represent the average voter at all.
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09-13-2008, 11:58 PM | #4446 | |
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Quote:
This is exactly the point. If they would have come out at the beginning and said that she has visited troops in Kuwait, I really don't think anyone would have cared. I view it the same way with the bridge to nowhere. If she would have come out and said," I was the Governor of Alaska. Isn't it my job to get every dollar I can for the state I run." I would have fully supported that and the story would be over. Just seems like silly spin on stories that no one would have cared about if they would have just come out and told the honest truth. |
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09-14-2008, 12:07 AM | #4447 | |
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Quote:
Is this even spin? If somebody associated to the campaign mis-speaks, does it automatically mean they did so intentionally? I mean this isn't even too tough to debunk. I saw in Newsweek that she visited troops going into Iraq in Kuwait. There is absolutely no upside to lying about this. Oh and edit to add that I agree exactly with you about the Bridge to Nowhere bit that I ...removed from your quote. Last edited by Glengoyne : 09-14-2008 at 12:08 AM. |
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09-14-2008, 01:27 AM | #4448 |
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09-14-2008, 02:03 AM | #4449 |
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Well, I don't know that the doggedness of refusing to not be heard is necessarily exclusive from my desire that Flasch follow the course in life that brings him true happiness. Or are you saying that in a pragmatic world, one cannot freely express his own opinions? I think if you're willing to accept those consequences of doing so--that you are happy with them--you are free to freely express those opinions. So long as you live in a nation where you are allowed to do so. Fortunately, we do happen to reside in such a nation.
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09-14-2008, 02:18 AM | #4450 | |
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I agree that the GOP has drifted significantly far from this ideal, which has caused me much angst. My choice then is to follow the party to the depths of social conservatism with which I have sharp disagreements (religion-based law, lack of gun controls, civil liberty infringements) and ignore its abandonment of fiscal responsibility, or turn to a party which better fits my beliefs (most likely the Libertarian) but thus stripping me of any real personal power in the realm of politics. The Democrats have moved even further from my ideals in the past ten years, so they are certainly not the answer. I really wish a moderate, fiscally responsible arm of the Republican Party would split off from the far right and join the Libertarian Party (and hopefully moderate the extremes of position in that party with which I disagree, largely foreign policy) or form their own party with elements of more socially-conservative centrist Independents and moderate Dems. But unfortunately, such a thing happening would likely only result in the Republican Party as a whole becoming splintered, with neither faction powerful enough to move on its own platform, essentially handing the country to the left and moving us toward a socialistic position. It's a pretty crummy time to be a fiscally conservative, moderate social Republican.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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