Maximum Football??? - Page 89

RedKingGold · 06-15-2006, 03:04 PM

Can we please make this thing get two 100 pages already!??!?!?!

SunDevil · 06-15-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Can we please make this thing get two 100 pages already!??!?!?!

Frtiz willing, one day you will be able to behold this sight you describe.

Antmeister · 06-15-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

I'm not saying it wasn't funny or accurate...and it was superfluolus and quite...what is the word....fritzy.

Don't take your anger out on us just because the Houston Oilers left Houston. Just let it go man....let it go.

Oilers9911 · 06-15-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Don't take your anger out on us just because the Houston Oilers left Houston. Just let it go man....let it go.

But I miss Earl Campbell!

digamma · 06-15-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

digamma, I know it may be painful to play the game and attempt to write a dynasty, but you gotta do it. We are counting on you.

It's definitely coming.

Not surprisingly, setting up a league isn't the easiest of processes. In fact, I'd call it pretty damn tedious.

For you though, Ant, it's coming!

QuikSand · 06-21-2006, 03:37 PM

Update?!?!?

SunDevil · 06-21-2006, 03:44 PM

It is like the Bermuda Triangle. People go in to play the game and write up a dynasty, never to be seen again.

digamma · 06-21-2006, 03:53 PM

Shrug.

Franklinnoble · 06-21-2006, 03:55 PM

Have we ever had a 100 page thread around here?

Izulde · 06-21-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Have we ever had a 100 page thread around here?

Lots of them, if you change the display settings.

ice4277 · 06-22-2006, 07:38 AM

I don't know if this will have the legs to get to 100 pages.

ice4277 · 06-22-2006, 07:38 AM

dola

But there's no harm in trying!

RedKingGold · 06-22-2006, 09:05 AM

Shameless filler post...

stevew · 06-22-2006, 09:33 AM

Eventually this will go to the archives, where it will sit for 6 more years until Max FootBall 2 comes out.

SunDevil · 06-22-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Eventually this will go to the archives, where it will sit for 6 more years until Max FootBall 2 comes out.

7. He will still need that extra year to re-implement career mode.

SunDevil · 06-22-2006, 09:46 AM

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1166524

Quote:

H2H was/is an option that people can vote on for R4. Right now I'm concentrating on R3, the current release in development. As it stands though, the current voting tally doesn't make it look like H2H will be the likely winner.

Either way, H2H would be a serious undertaking requiring months of work to get working. There are many challenges. Obviously getting the game to send packets back and forth to update player positions and animations is the most obvious. But less obvious, but a much larger task is making it work with the huge variety of network configurations out there. The support requests alone for dealing with various firewalls and network configurations alone would be a full time job.

For some reason I see this ending badly....

SunDevil · 06-22-2006, 09:49 AM

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1166524

Quote:

Hi.

Many are probably wondering where their next update is. This is quick note to just let you know what is going on.

The game is now back in the private beta state meaning that all the new features and functions have been implemented (while this is happening it's referred to as Alpha state). The private beta testers get new builds every couple of days or so and things seem to be going well.

The new PDS seems to have addressed a lot of concerns and requests that people have brought up since the game was released in March. Currently three new 'stock' play books are being created to better utilize the new features.

The defense is also getting an overall. Presnap motion as well as improved M2M coverage is currently being tested and evaluated.

At this time I'm still not willing to provide any dates as to when this update will be available. I just ask people for their patience as I work to improve the game.

Thanks
Daivd Winter
Developer.

Hear that guys. The defense is getting an overall. What does overall mean in CFL terms?

SunDevil · 06-22-2006, 09:50 AM

dola

Here is some new material to try to push this past 100.

Bee · 06-22-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

The game is now back in the private beta state meaning that all the new features and functions have been implemented (while this is happening it's referred to as Alpha state). The private beta testers get new builds every couple of days or so and things seem to be going well.

Wait a second....the game is now in Alpha? Is Daivd going backwards along the development cycle? What's next...he comes up with a design document?

cartman · 06-22-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

Wait a second....the game is now in Alpha? Is Daivd going backwards along the development cycle? What's next...he comes up with a design document?

I brought up this same point 10 or 15 pages back.

cartman · 06-22-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daivd

H2H was/is an option that people can vote on for R4. Right now I'm concentrating on R3, the current release in development. As it stands though, the current voting tally doesn't make it look like H2H will be the likely winner.

Either way, H2H would be a serious undertaking requiring months of work to get working. There are many challenges. Obviously getting the game to send packets back and forth to update player positions and animations is the most obvious. But less obvious, but a much larger task is making it work with the huge variety of network configurations out there. The support requests alone for dealing with various firewalls and network configurations alone would be a full time job.

From what he says here, and in other posts he's made, it's amazing that any software runs at all. It seems fromt the part I highlighted that this will be the most difficult part for him to overcome, since the game doesn't appear to even handle this part well on a single computer.

Bee · 06-22-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

I brought up this same point 10 or 15 pages back.

Hee...well nothing wrong with recycling material when it's applicable.

CraigSca · 06-22-2006, 10:03 AM

What is he talking about regarding the various network configurations? I thought the high-level language (whatever he's using) is supposed to take care of all that crap. That's why you use DirectX - you don't have to make the various calls for each graphics card. It's not like network programming is something new...

BrianD · 06-22-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

It's not like network programming is something new...

Apparently it is for him...

SunDevil · 06-22-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

What is he talking about regarding the various network configurations? I thought the high-level language (whatever he's using) is supposed to take care of all that crap. That's why you use DirectX - you don't have to make the various calls for each graphics card. It's not like network programming is something new...

Have you seen the game? I do not know if he is even using DirectX.

QuikSand · 06-22-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Hear that guys. The defense is getting an overall. What does overall mean in CFL terms?

I think it's what a prostitute would call "around the world."

Bee · 06-22-2006, 12:25 PM

I just assumed overall referred to a graphic addition for creating uniforms for those interested in creating farmer uniforms.

QuikSand · 06-22-2006, 12:38 PM

Gold.

digamma · 06-23-2006, 10:22 AM

I'm thinking I should just post the dynasty in this thread, yeah?

cartman · 06-23-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

I'm thinking I should just post the dynasty in this thread, yeah?

Hells yeah! Hollah!

OMFGWTFBBQ!!!111!!oneone!

cartman · 06-23-2006, 10:27 AM

And, if you get tired of the game, I think we've found FOFC's wedding gift for JeeberD...

SFL Cat · 06-23-2006, 10:31 AM

it's alive.....

st.cronin · 06-23-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

And, if you get tired of the game, I think we've found FOFC's wedding gift for JeeberD...

That's a capital idea!

SFL Cat · 06-23-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

And, if you get tired of the game, I think we've found FOFC's wedding gift for JeeberD...

Nice thought, since only five or six copies have sold, it's bound to be a collector's item someday.

digamma · 06-23-2006, 11:05 AM

Welcome to Los Angeles Comets football!!!

I decided I wanted to take over my home town team--the Los Angeles Comets--in the default U.S. Maximum Football League.

This means we'll be playing default U.S. rules on a regulary 100 yard football field with 11 players on the field at a time for each team. Touchdowns will be worth six points, with an option to go for one or two points after the touchdown. Field goals are worth three points and safeties, two. Four downs to get a first down. If there are any other questions on rules, feel free to let me know!

I'll try to post pictures of our uniforms, but to paint the picture for you, the Comets wear blue jerseys with gold numbers and gold stripes at the shoulders. The pants are a matching gold. The helmets are blue with the comet logo in gold on the side. Road uniforms are white jerseys, with gold pants. Maybe over time, I'll be able to put together some alternate jerseys for my team. Maybe for big rivalry games or something, you know to fire them up.

The league starts with an allocation draft. I get a bit unlucky and draw the 14th pick out of 16 teams in the allocation draft.

Oh yeah, I suppose I should say a bit about the league. There are 16 teams, divided into four divisions. We're in the west with Oakland, San Francisco and Denver. The East is New York, Washington, Philadelphia and Boston. The North is Milwaukee, Chicago, Cleveland and Pittsburg. Finally, the South is Tampa, Miami, Dallas and Houston.

Up next...the allocation draft.

KWhit · 06-23-2006, 11:22 AM

Outstanding!

Coffee Warlord · 06-23-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

And, if you get tired of the game, I think we've found FOFC's wedding gift for JeeberD...

Except, there should only be one copy purchased. And any time an FOFC'r announces they are getting married, the previous recipient must send it over. The neverending cycle.

Passacaglia · 06-23-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Except, there should only be one copy purchased. And any time an FOFC'r announces they are getting married, the previous recipient must send it over. The neverending cycle.

Poor Jeebs will probably only get it for like a week then!

Is it really spelled Pittsburg?

CraigSca · 06-23-2006, 11:38 AM

I've been a Comets fan ever since I saw them on TV and fell in love with their uniforms. That's what football's all about.

Franklinnoble · 06-23-2006, 11:46 AM

Why does the west have three California teams?

QuikSand · 06-23-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

100 yard football field with 11 players on the field at a time for each team. Touchdowns will be worth six points, with an option to go for one or two points after the touchdown. Field goals are worth three points and safeties, two. Four downs to get a first down. If there are any other questions on rules, feel free to let me know!

Some fascinating... dare I say inspired... decisions there! Go Comets!

QuikSand · 06-23-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is it really spelled Pittsburg?

In Kansas, I think so. Maximum customization!

Antmeister · 06-23-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

Welcome to Los Angeles Comets football!!!

I decided I wanted to take over my home town team--the Los Angeles Comets--in the default U.S. Maximum Football League.

This means we'll be playing default U.S. rules on a regulary 100 yard football field with 11 players on the field at a time for each team. Touchdowns will be worth six points, with an option to go for one or two points after the touchdown. Field goals are worth three points and safeties, two. Four downs to get a first down. If there are any other questions on rules, feel free to let me know!

I'll try to post pictures of our uniforms, but to paint the picture for you, the Comets wear blue jerseys with gold numbers and gold stripes at the shoulders. The pants are a matching gold. The helmets are blue with the comet logo in gold on the side. Road uniforms are white jerseys, with gold pants. Maybe over time, I'll be able to put together some alternate jerseys for my team. Maybe for big rivalry games or something, you know to fire them up.

The league starts with an allocation draft. I get a bit unlucky and draw the 14th pick out of 16 teams in the allocation draft.

Oh yeah, I suppose I should say a bit about the league. There are 16 teams, divided into four divisions. We're in the west with Oakland, San Francisco and Denver. The East is New York, Washington, Philadelphia and Boston. The North is Milwaukee, Chicago, Cleveland and Pittsburg. Finally, the South is Tampa, Miami, Dallas and Houston.

Up next...the allocation draft.

Let the games begin. Oh and please don't forget to download the latest patches. I am sure the new patches will make this story more entertaining.

Passacaglia · 06-23-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Why does the west have three California teams?

Where else would you put them?

digamma · 06-23-2006, 11:53 AM

As I said, we drew the 14th pick in the allocation draft.

Dallas has the first pick, and they go after a quarterback named Tosetil. Philadelphia looks for a quarterback with pick number two. Chicago follows up by looking for a quarterback also. It gets to me and a full 13 quarterbacks have been selected in front of me.

I get a bit concerned that there won't be a starter left, so I decide I better jump in the quarterback lotto also.

I'm relieved to find that there are still some viable options around which to build my franchise. I narrow it down to Cesar McWhite and Hosea Axtman.

McWhite has a 93 rating in Passing Strength and an 83 rating in passing accuracy. He's rated 82 in pocket passing. The thing I like about him is that he stands a full 76 inches tall.

Axtman has an 87 Passing Strength rating, but is a more accurate passer than McWhite, with a 93 rating there. He's not quite as good in the pocket (80), and he's not as physically imposing (72 inches).

I narrowly favor McWhite--call it a hunch, and make him the Comets first selection in the draft.

Round two starts and teams are going quarterback again. Another 13 quarterbacks selected by the time we get to pick 14. My "scout" (really the game, as there is no scout function) tells me I should look for a second qb also. Imagine my joy to see that Axtman is still available. I happily snatch him up with pick number two.

Round three begins much the same way with thirteen quarterback selections. Not to be left behind, I fall in line. I decide to take a slightly different approach with this third quarterback and I look for a runner/scrambler. I find Brandon Lope. He's rated 93 in Passing Strength and 86 in Passing accuracy--hardly a drop off at all from McWhite and Axtman. Lope is rated 77 in speed though, so I figure I can roll him out and open the playbook with him a bit.

Round four has teams looking for wide receivers. I decide to buck the trend here and look for a franchise running back. Hilton Caracso catches my eye. He's rated 82 in speed and 82 in agility. He has a strength rating in the upper 60s. I click Select Player to make him part of the 2006 Los Angeles Comets. But, wait. The commissioner won't accept my pick. He's making me pick a wide receiver. Something about the new collective bargaining agreement requiring a single position to be picked each round.

I settle for speedster Roman Waterman. We're going to have to work with him on catching the ball, as he only has a 76 "hands" rating to go along with his 97 speed rating. We follow up that pick with a mix of hands and speed guys for the WR position.

And so it goes. We make our OL selections followed by our RB selections. I'm ecstatic to find that Caracso is still available in the first running back round. I quickly grab him.

After kickers and tight ends, it's time to move to defense.

At this point, I'm a bit tired, so I decide to turn over the drafting of the defense to my coordinators. Given the depth in this draft, I'm hopeful they won't screw things up.

Next up...cut down day.

cartman · 06-23-2006, 11:54 AM

LOL! Gotta love the draft logic there.

QuikSand · 06-23-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

Round four has teams looking for wide receivers. I decide to buck the trend here and look for a franchise running back. Hilton Caracso catches my eye. He's rated 82 in speed and 82 in agility. He has a strength rating in the upper 60s. I click Select Player to make him part of the 2006 Los Angeles Comets. But, wait. The commissioner won't accept my pick. He's making me pick a wide receiver. Something about the new collective bargaining agreement requiring a single position to be picked each round.

Standard.

Passacaglia · 06-23-2006, 11:56 AM

So it's not a snake draft? I know, that's the LEAST troubling thing about what's going on here.

st.cronin · 06-23-2006, 11:56 AM

I have read this entire thread, and I confess I'm absolutely stunned to discover that the draft works that way.

MJ4H · 06-23-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have read this entire thread, and I confess I'm absolutely stunned to discover that the draft works that way.

ditto and to me that is absolutely hilarious.

06-22-2006, 10:03 AM	#4423
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	What is he talking about regarding the various network configurations? I thought the high-level language (whatever he's using) is supposed to take care of all that crap. That's why you use DirectX - you don't have to make the various calls for each graphics card. It's not like network programming is something new... __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? Last edited by CraigSca : 06-22-2006 at 10:04 AM.

06-23-2006, 10:27 AM	#4431
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	And, if you get tired of the game, I think we've found FOFC's wedding gift for JeeberD... __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-23-2006, 11:38 AM	#4439
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	I've been a Comets fan ever since I saw them on TV and fell in love with their uniforms. That's what football's all about. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

06-23-2006, 11:54 AM	#4446
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	LOL! Gotta love the draft logic there. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-23-2006, 11:56 AM	#4448
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	So it's not a snake draft? I know, that's the LEAST troubling thing about what's going on here. Last edited by Passacaglia : 06-23-2006 at 11:59 AM.

06-15-2006, 03:04 PM	#4401
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Can we please make this thing get two 100 pages already!??!?!?!

06-21-2006, 03:37 PM	#4406
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Update?!?!?

06-21-2006, 03:44 PM	#4407
SunDevil College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Tempe, AZ	It is like the Bermuda Triangle. People go in to play the game and write up a dynasty, never to be seen again.

06-21-2006, 03:53 PM	#4408
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	Shrug.

06-21-2006, 03:55 PM	#4409
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Have we ever had a 100 page thread around here?

06-22-2006, 07:38 AM	#4411
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	I don't know if this will have the legs to get to 100 pages.

06-22-2006, 07:38 AM	#4412
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	dola But there's no harm in trying!

06-22-2006, 09:05 AM	#4413
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Shameless filler post...

06-22-2006, 09:33 AM	#4414
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Eventually this will go to the archives, where it will sit for 6 more years until Max FootBall 2 comes out.

06-22-2006, 09:50 AM	#4418
SunDevil College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Tempe, AZ	dola Here is some new material to try to push this past 100.

06-22-2006, 12:25 PM	#4427
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I just assumed overall referred to a graphic addition for creating uniforms for those interested in creating farmer uniforms.

06-22-2006, 12:38 PM	#4428
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Gold.

06-23-2006, 10:22 AM	#4429
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	I'm thinking I should just post the dynasty in this thread, yeah?

06-23-2006, 10:31 AM	#4432
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	it's alive.....

06-23-2006, 11:05 AM	#4435
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	Welcome to Los Angeles Comets football!!! I decided I wanted to take over my home town team--the Los Angeles Comets--in the default U.S. Maximum Football League. This means we'll be playing default U.S. rules on a regulary 100 yard football field with 11 players on the field at a time for each team. Touchdowns will be worth six points, with an option to go for one or two points after the touchdown. Field goals are worth three points and safeties, two. Four downs to get a first down. If there are any other questions on rules, feel free to let me know! I'll try to post pictures of our uniforms, but to paint the picture for you, the Comets wear blue jerseys with gold numbers and gold stripes at the shoulders. The pants are a matching gold. The helmets are blue with the comet logo in gold on the side. Road uniforms are white jerseys, with gold pants. Maybe over time, I'll be able to put together some alternate jerseys for my team. Maybe for big rivalry games or something, you know to fire them up. The league starts with an allocation draft. I get a bit unlucky and draw the 14th pick out of 16 teams in the allocation draft. Oh yeah, I suppose I should say a bit about the league. There are 16 teams, divided into four divisions. We're in the west with Oakland, San Francisco and Denver. The East is New York, Washington, Philadelphia and Boston. The North is Milwaukee, Chicago, Cleveland and Pittsburg. Finally, the South is Tampa, Miami, Dallas and Houston. Up next...the allocation draft.

06-23-2006, 11:22 AM	#4436
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Outstanding!

06-23-2006, 11:46 AM	#4440
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Why does the west have three California teams?

06-23-2006, 11:53 AM	#4445
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	As I said, we drew the 14th pick in the allocation draft. Dallas has the first pick, and they go after a quarterback named Tosetil. Philadelphia looks for a quarterback with pick number two. Chicago follows up by looking for a quarterback also. It gets to me and a full 13 quarterbacks have been selected in front of me. I get a bit concerned that there won't be a starter left, so I decide I better jump in the quarterback lotto also. I'm relieved to find that there are still some viable options around which to build my franchise. I narrow it down to Cesar McWhite and Hosea Axtman. McWhite has a 93 rating in Passing Strength and an 83 rating in passing accuracy. He's rated 82 in pocket passing. The thing I like about him is that he stands a full 76 inches tall. Axtman has an 87 Passing Strength rating, but is a more accurate passer than McWhite, with a 93 rating there. He's not quite as good in the pocket (80), and he's not as physically imposing (72 inches). I narrowly favor McWhite--call it a hunch, and make him the Comets first selection in the draft. Round two starts and teams are going quarterback again. Another 13 quarterbacks selected by the time we get to pick 14. My "scout" (really the game, as there is no scout function) tells me I should look for a second qb also. Imagine my joy to see that Axtman is still available. I happily snatch him up with pick number two. Round three begins much the same way with thirteen quarterback selections. Not to be left behind, I fall in line. I decide to take a slightly different approach with this third quarterback and I look for a runner/scrambler. I find Brandon Lope. He's rated 93 in Passing Strength and 86 in Passing accuracy--hardly a drop off at all from McWhite and Axtman. Lope is rated 77 in speed though, so I figure I can roll him out and open the playbook with him a bit. Round four has teams looking for wide receivers. I decide to buck the trend here and look for a franchise running back. Hilton Caracso catches my eye. He's rated 82 in speed and 82 in agility. He has a strength rating in the upper 60s. I click Select Player to make him part of the 2006 Los Angeles Comets. But, wait. The commissioner won't accept my pick. He's making me pick a wide receiver. Something about the new collective bargaining agreement requiring a single position to be picked each round. I settle for speedster Roman Waterman. We're going to have to work with him on catching the ball, as he only has a 76 "hands" rating to go along with his 97 speed rating. We follow up that pick with a mix of hands and speed guys for the WR position. And so it goes. We make our OL selections followed by our RB selections. I'm ecstatic to find that Caracso is still available in the first running back round. I quickly grab him. After kickers and tight ends, it's time to move to defense. At this point, I'm a bit tired, so I decide to turn over the drafting of the defense to my coordinators. Given the depth in this draft, I'm hopeful they won't screw things up. Next up...cut down day.

06-23-2006, 11:56 AM	#4449
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I have read this entire thread, and I confess I'm absolutely stunned to discover that the draft works that way. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

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