Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[duckman]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What's he going to do though? Buy off Larry Scott?

Not Larry Scott, but Pickens has been known to donate large amounts of money to other schools other than Oklahoma State. It wouldn't surprise me if he gave money to Pac-12 schools and pay for other cost for expansion to make sure Oklahoma State gets to be part of the conference.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by cartman

The Big 10 was on DirectTV at launch, but only for the Sports tier subscribers. LHN is currently on the default channel list for FiOS.

Default in Texas only, I believe.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

ASU has done groupon the last 2 years for their home opener. Both were against DII schools (UC Davis last night and Portland state last year) I see no problem with it...it gets the casual fan to come see the game and sells a ticket that wouldn't sell on it's own anyhow

State's deal was for a I-AA opponent, Liberty, which doesn't exactly entice a large crowd on Labor Day weekend when it's going to be in the low 90s and humid. It was apparently successful as they did sell out whatever allotment they put up on Groupon.

[molson]

If college football was more like pro wrestling (and it's perhaps on its way), the "Big 12 Commissioner" character (who'd have a big cowboy hat and a cigar) would go up to SMU in the locker room before their game this weekend and say, "let me tell 'ya something partner....A&M has an ass-kicking coming their way - and if you boys give it to 'em on Sunday night - you're in the Big 12! If you lose, forget it!" Wouldn't that make that game worth watching?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by duckman

Not Larry Scott, but Pickens has been known to donate large amounts of money to other schools other than Oklahoma State. It wouldn't surprise me if he gave money to Pac-12 schools and pay for other cost for expansion to make sure Oklahoma State gets to be part of the conference.

If he were willing to move the 405 freeway and build an on-campus stadium for UCLA, I'd be all for OSU

But I think it's Larry Scott's call at this point, not any of the AD's. They gave him carte blanche to do what he could to increase the revenue and he did better than anyone thought. Pretty sure the 12 teams will give him the same deal to go to 16 teams. Not sure if Pickens will be able to still mesh that way

[kcchief19]

Rough day for the Chickenhawks ... not only are they getting picked on for the Groupon thing, but now they have given away their football game to the Longhorn Network.

Each Big 12 team has one game that they own and can broadcast anyway they want and keep the revenue. This was the bone thrown to UT for the LHN, but all the Big 12 teams got their own game. Most are going to choose to go PPV to get the money and let their fans watch the game.

Not KU. KU has sold the KU-Texas game to the Longhorns so that UT will now have two games on the Longhorn Network. Of course, since the Longhorn Network is not and will never be available anywhere in Kansas, Jayhawk fans won't be able to watch the game.

On the bright side for KU, at least they aren't responsible for Ecokat.
Kansas State's EcoKat Mascot Will Reduce Energy Usage And Humiliate The School

[dawgfan]

Here's a big reason I don't buy the idea of Oklahoma to the SEC:

Boren said Friday that Oklahoma is seeking stability in its conference relationship with "partners that are both outstanding athletically and academically as well because a conference that's strong is not only stable but it's one in which there are multiple relationships, along with sports, between the university members."

Maybe I'm totally underselling the academic credentials and partnerships of the members of the SEC, but I don't see that conference and those schools as being what he's claiming to be looking for with that statement. The Big Ten? Sure. The Pac-12? More than likely.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by duckman

Former OSU coach Pat Jones was told by a source that the SEC is preparing to add Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Florida State, and Virginia Tech.

Really doubt that OU would go to SEC and leave OSU behind. Pac-XX has always been their first option and same thing with the Pac-XX wanting OU if they go to 16.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by duckman

Not Larry Scott, but Pickens has been known to donate large amounts of money to other schools other than Oklahoma State. It wouldn't surprise me if he gave money to Pac-12 schools and pay for other cost for expansion to make sure Oklahoma State gets to be part of the conference.

Yeah, I don't think Bug knew all the info before making that statement. Pickens has no problem with paying off a few schools to get what he wants. Especially in this economy, money talks.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

triple dola

Pretty amusing read from Chipper on the OU comments. Lots of threats veiled as facts in this article. It's pretty clear UT is in full panic mode at this point and they should be. They pushed too far and the conference members finally said 'enough'.

Orangebloods.com - The plot thickens to try to hold Big 12 together

FWIW......OU and Mizzou AD's are actually very close friends. Joe and Mike go on family vacations together. They struck up the relationship when Mike took over at Mizzou after Joe left for OU. I have little doubt that they both chat regularly about this situation and are aware what the other is exploring as far as options go.

If the reports from the poster on Tigerboard are correct, Mizzou will make a similar announcement early next week. I'm guessing that's why OU is requesting a very quick resolution or they're gone as well. If OU is making this kind of a public announcement in the middle of what is supposed to be a 'recruiting' effort by the conference, it's clear that the situation regarding the B12 is in a dire state.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, I don't think Bug knew all the info before making that statement. Pickens has no problem with paying off a few schools to get what he wants. Especially in this economy, money talks.

You should read my responses

Nice try though

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Lots of threats veiled as facts in this article. It's pretty clear UT is in full panic mode at this point and they should be.

LOL

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Maybe I'm totally underselling the academic credentials and partnerships of the members of the SEC, but I don't see that conference and those schools as being what he's claiming to be looking for with that statement. The Big Ten? Sure. The Pac-12? More than likely.

Yep. Don't trust much that comes out of Pat Jones' mouth. From what I'm hearing, Boren would FAR prefer the Pac-12 for a number of reasons. One of the big ones is academics.

[dawgfan]

Texas is going to have to humble themselves a bit. The part I found most interesting in Chip's article was this:

And that could mean Texas basically tearing up the 20-year, $300 million deal it just inked with ESPN and giving up its riches.

I don't know if this wording reflects the thinking within the Texas AD, but if it does, they need to take a step back and re-think things.

Yes, they have a fat individual contract with ESPN. But if their conference breaks apart, that's all they have. Contrast that with the Pac-12 which is looking at revenues of $21M annually per school from their primary TV deal, and informed speculation that they will be realizing between $12-15M annually per school from their Pac-12 Network. If Texas (& Oklahoma) were added to the mix, and the Big-"12" kaput, there's a pretty good chance those numbers would climb even higher.

Does Texas really value that Longhorn Network deal so much that they'd turn down making even more money in a Pac-16? Are they so locked into a mindset of unequal revenue sharing where they are the kings of their own conference instead of building up the value of all conference teams? Do they ignore the precedent set by the SEC and Big Ten when it comes to equal revenue sharing, one that Pac-12 has now fully adopted? Do they ignore all the academic benefits from becoming a part of a Pac-16?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, I don't think Bug knew all the info before making that statement. Pickens has no problem with paying off a few schools to get what he wants. Especially in this economy, money talks.

Hey, if Pickens wants to make up the TV revenue difference for every other school in the Pac-xx that would come with the dilution of adding Oklahoma State to the mix, I'm sure the conference would listen. But Pickens isn't going to live forever...

[dawgfan]

Expanding on my last post, a bit more info/speculation on what the Pac-12 Networks may bring in terms of revenue:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ich_quick.html

[Eaglesfan27]

Word is that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State have agreed to go to the Pac-16. They expect Texas and either Texas Tech or Missouri to follow them.

[Swaggs]

I wish I could quit following this stuff.

The next question is do Kansas, KSU, Missouri, Baylor, and Iowa State try to make a go of it with the best of the Mountain West and CUSA to form or re-form the sixth BCS conference or does the Big East try to go to 12 or 14 by grabbing KSU/Kansas/Missouri?

[duckman]

WWLS, a sports talk radio station in Oklahoma City, is reporting that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are going to the Pac-12. An announcement is expected in the next few days.

[tarcone]

Wow. I wonder if the B1G waits to see if a 16 team conference is viable or do they make a grab for some ACC/Big East schools?
The next few weeks should be interesting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty funny move by the Rice band.........

PHOTO: Rice Band Trolls Hard In The Conference Realignment Paint - From Our Editors - SBNation.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Seems like a pretty accurate assessment. It is a bit amusing to see OU and OSU acting surprised publicly and Alden acting shocked that it happened. All three have been talking behind the scenes with the SEC and Pac-XX over the past few weeks.

OU's sole focus now on joining Pac-12 | NewsOK.com

Alden publicly supports Pinkel comments. That's a pretty clear sign that Mizzou is confident that the conference will dissolve......

http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/2011

[Wolfpack]

Hm. If OU bails out and thus implodes the B12 in the process, does A&M really need to pay anyone anything in exit fees anymore (aside from pesky lawsuits by Texas/ESPN/Longhorn Network for ruining a good thing for them)?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Pretty funny move by the Rice band.........

PHOTO: Rice Band Trolls Hard In The Conference Realignment Paint - From Our Editors - SBNation.com

There is no context in that photo. Their entire performance was one big FU to A&M. It was hilarious. Lines like:

"The move by A&M to the SEC raises the IQ of both conferences"
And lots of other digs at A&M and the SEC. Surprised there isn't any video posted of that part of their performance yet.

Right after they made the $EC, they then went into Rick Perry's candidacy and his Aggie ties:

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Latest on the clusterfu#% otherwise known as Texas. Chipper has revived the lawsuit threats along with the calls by Texas legislators to get UT to slow down and get A&M back in the conference.

This has gone from laughable to obnoxious in a big hurry. The B12 conference needs Jack Kevorkian to put them out of their misery.

Orangebloods.com - Sources: Texas being told to slow things down

[Solecismic]

If ESPN is willing to pay $15 million for one Texas pre-conference game, imagine how much money there would be in a playoff system.

Once this jumping around settles, I think the NCAA and major conference commissioners are going to make this happen. There's no reason the conference championship games can't be the first round of a national championship tournament.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

If ESPN is willing to pay $15 million for one Texas pre-conference game, imagine how much money there would be in a playoff system.

Once this jumping around settles, I think the NCAA and major conference commissioners are going to make this happen. There's no reason the conference championship games can't be the first round of a national championship tournament.

4 16 team conference champions face off in a final forum type playoff. You would need to factor in the teams outside of those conferences, but I doubt many would be deemed worthy considering the difficulty of winning the conference title game.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Matthean

4 16 team conference champions face off in a final forum type playoff. You would need to factor in the teams outside of those conferences, but I doubt many would be deemed worthy considering the difficulty of winning the conference title game.

There's not going to be any factoring of anybody outside of the four 16 team conferences. If you're not in those conferences, you might as well go to I-AA because you won't count.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

If ESPN is willing to pay $15 million for one Texas pre-conference game, imagine how much money there would be in a playoff system.

Once this jumping around settles, I think the NCAA and major conference commissioners are going to make this happen. There's no reason the conference championship games can't be the first round of a national championship tournament.

Except that an extended playoff system devalues the regular season - college football is able to land huge TV deals precisely because the regular season carries so much value.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ks/#more-20929

I'm with Wilner on this. I could see a "plus 1" element added to the BCS, but I think that's all that BCS teams would want to do without feeling like they'd be risking the golden goose that is their regular season.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by rowech

There's not going to be any factoring of anybody outside of the four 16 team conferences. If you're not in those conferences, you might as well go to I-AA because you won't count.

Hence why I said they do need to be factored in. Just look at the possible Pac-16 and then think of a one loss Kansas team that isn't in one of the big four conferences. How much of a chance do they have at getting a title shot? My guess is rather low.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by rowech

There's not going to be any factoring of anybody outside of the four 16 team conferences. If you're not in those conferences, you might as well go to I-AA because you won't count.

Wouldn't this be an antitrust problem?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Except that an extended playoff system devalues the regular season - college football is able to land huge TV deals precisely because the regular season carries so much value.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ks/#more-20929

I'm with Wilner on this. I could see a "plus 1" element added to the BCS, but I think that's all that BCS teams would want to do without feeling like they'd be risking the golden goose that is their regular season.

If you essentially have eight 8-team divisions, each with a berth into their respective conference's title game, you're going to have a lot of games that mean something. Assume seven games are divisional, then four or five more either against cross-divisional or at large opponents. Even if the cross-divisional don't count for standings, would there be that many more games that hold no value? This season, Alabama plays Kent State, North Texas, Georgia Southern. That's three games already that don't matter. Sub those out for games against real opponents, even if they won't be season-killers. As a casual football fan, I'd rather see games like that than games against DII cupcakes.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Hence why I said they do need to be factored in. Just look at the possible Pac-16 and then think of a one loss Kansas team that isn't in one of the big four conferences. How much of a chance do they have at getting a title shot? My guess is rather low.

Relegation. If a team shows consistently that they can't cut it as one of the 64, kick 'em out. Let somebody else in.

That or use that as a punishment. The U? Ok fine, you don't get the death penalty for cheating, but you DO get tossed from the 64 until you clean up your act and work your way back in.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Relegation. If a team shows consistently that they can't cut it as one of the 64, kick 'em out. Let somebody else in.

That or use that as a punishment. The U? Ok fine, you don't get the death penalty for cheating, but you DO get tossed from the 64 until you clean up your act and work your way back in.

Might be the greatest idea ever to punish those schools.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Except that an extended playoff system devalues the regular season - college football is able to land huge TV deals precisely because the regular season carries so much value.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ks/#more-20929

I'm with Wilner on this. I could see a "plus 1" element added to the BCS, but I think that's all that BCS teams would want to do without feeling like they'd be risking the golden goose that is their regular season.

I don't see any proof there. If anything, it adds more tension because every division is a track into the playoffs.

All it would be is a "plus-1" anyway. You match up the four mega-conference winners as usual in a top bowl. Then the two winners of those games play that plus-1. You leave the rest of the teams playing the usual exhibition bowls, including the top mid-majors.

As for anti-trust, why would it be any different than I-A with its 120 schools? Just less of them. The television deals are where you have the anti-trust exemptions, and you need that for a conference-wide television deal anyway.

Now some political blow-hards might blow hard about it, but they always do about sports, and they never actually erupt.

[molson]

4 big conferences would kill a lot of what's fun about college football. I don't get the appeal of 16-team conferences at all.....I'd love to see a few schools who can manage it go independent and keep the chaos going. Why share with others when you can run your own show?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by rowech

There's not going to be any factoring of anybody outside of the four 16 team conferences. If you're not in those conferences, you might as well go to I-AA because you won't count.

Not true at all. Would expect major litigation from that and would expect them to win. I'd guess a eight team playoff where you get some automatic qualifiers and then a wild card or two.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

As for anti-trust, why would it be any different than I-A with its 120 schools? Just less of them. The television deals are where you have the anti-trust exemptions, and you need that for a conference-wide television deal anyway.

There's an agreed-upon process to join Division 1 or FBS. What would be the process to join one of the 16 team super conferences if they're the only access point to a playoff? That's why Delany's threat is usually to go back to the old bowl tie-ins negotiated individually.

[TroyF]

I just can't wait until all this is over. I was resigned to waiting 3 to 5 years for the Big12 implosion, now that it looks like it could happen sooner, I just want the thing to blow up.

The only real loser in all of it are the secondary conference schools, Texas (because they won't be able to play puppet master with whatever conference they end up in) and Notre Dame. (because it's going to be tough for them to stay as an independent with four super conferences orbiting around them)

Just end this thing already.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Rough day for the Chickenhawks ... not only are they getting picked on for the Groupon thing, but now they have given away their football game to the Longhorn Network.

Each Big 12 team has one game that they own and can broadcast anyway they want and keep the revenue. This was the bone thrown to UT for the LHN, but all the Big 12 teams got their own game. Most are going to choose to go PPV to get the money and let their fans watch the game.

Not KU. KU has sold the KU-Texas game to the Longhorns so that UT will now have two games on the Longhorn Network. Of course, since the Longhorn Network is not and will never be available anywhere in Kansas, Jayhawk fans won't be able to watch the game.

On the bright side for KU, at least they aren't responsible for Ecokat.
Kansas State's EcoKat Mascot Will Reduce Energy Usage And Humiliate The School

Just a quick correction kcchiefs. The game is actually being carried by the Jayhawk Network in the state of Kansas and the Longhorn Network everywhere else. So Jayhawk fans will be able to watch their team play against Texas if they live in the state of Kansas.

Not sure what to think about this ecoKate campaign. The KSU fans I've spoken with hate it. If the KSU marketing department didn't get fired for the Power Towel fiasco then this almost assures their demise.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Current info from both Mizzou boards is that A&M will go to SEC and Brady Deaton will step down from the B12 expansion committee before the end of the week. That will open the door for Mizzou to send a letter to the conference saying they will explore other options (the SEC). We'll see if the timeline falls that way. Sounds like OU may go before MU does it, but either one going out is the death of the conference at this point.

[kcchief19]

Interesting ... Reading tonight that OU, OSU and Tech are ready to head to the Pac 12 with or without Texas. If UT won't agree to go, they plan to ask for a vote to dissolve the Big 12. I'm not sure what the bylaws say now about this, but I presume there are four votes to dissolve. I'm assuming Baylor and and Iowa State are votes no. That puts Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State in the middle.

One of the Missouri beat writers tonight seriously doubts the NY Post report that the Big East has offers extended to Mizzou, KU and KSU. However, it's been alleged since last year those three have had open invites to the Big East.

Complicating matters is that Chip Brown is claiming that UT is balking at going to the PAC 12 because of the revenue sharing. However, apparently the ACC is giving Texas the leverage they want and offering to take Texas and let them keep the Longhorn Network to themselves.

It's pretty clear at this point that Texas wanting to keep all the money they can is at the heart of all this. No one in the Big 12 is happy except Texas.

I'm starting to think Mizzou to the Big East is the most logical place for us. SEC means more money but more competition. I don't trust the Big Ten, and I think they are stuck in the past. The problem with the Big East is geography ... MU and KU won't be happy going to NY for the basketball tournament every year, and I doubt the Big East would let it go to KC. I think a Big East super conference is doomed to fail.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

... MU and KU won't be happy going to NY for the basketball tournament every year,

Two basketball first schools would probably really enjoy hitting NYC in March for the best Conference tournament in the land. How about a Friday night Semi Final of: Kansas-Syracuse and Uconn-Missouri. Who wouldn't want to be in the Garden for that?!?

Side note: Missouri would be lucky to ever play on a Friday night in the BET

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Complicating matters is that Chip Brown is claiming that UT is balking at going to the PAC 12 because of the revenue sharing. However, apparently the ACC is giving Texas the leverage they want and offering to take Texas and let them keep the Longhorn Network to themselves.

Assuming that this is true, it seems hard to believe that Texas thinks they'll make more in their current arrangement than accepting the Pac's terms. Pac-12 teams are looking at ~$21M per from their main TV deal, and analysts expect the Pac-12 Network to end up pulling another $12-15M per team. Not to mention, the dissolution of the Big-"12" and addition of Oklahoma and Texas to the Pac should end up increasing the pull per team on both counts.

Does Texas really think they'll do better than that in the ACC?

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Marmel

Two basketball first schools would probably really enjoy hitting NYC in March for the best Conference tournament in the land. How about a Friday night Semi Final of: Kansas-Syracuse and Uconn-Missouri. Who wouldn't want to be in the Garden for that?!?

Side note: Missouri would be lucky to ever play on a Friday night in the BET

Hence why it won't work. It would be a blast for a couple of years, but both schools -- especially KU -- will become bitter at having to play in front of hostile crowds far from home.

Mizzou will be Ok with it if we get as many BCS bids as we expect out of the deal. Whe Mizzou says the Big East is a better "cultural" it than the SEC, it means we think we can dominate everything except baskball.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Assuming that this is true, it seems hard to believe that Texas thinks they'll make more in their current arrangement than accepting the Pac's terms. Pac-12 teams are looking at ~$21M per from their main TV deal, and analysts expect the Pac-12 Network to end up pulling another $12-15M per team. Not to mention, the dissolution of the Big-"12" and addition of Oklahoma and Texas to the Pac should end up increasing the pull per team on both counts.

Does Texas really think they'll do better than that in the ACC?

Personally I think it's just leverage. Texas is getting $20 million for the Longhorn Network plus conference revenues. Texas doesn't want to share regional revenues ... There are reports Texas is getting around $45 million in the Big 12.

Another interesting development ... Baylor is pulling out the stops to save the Big 12:
Baylor University || Baylor Nation || Don't Mess With Texas Football

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

apparently the ACC is giving Texas the leverage they want and offering to take Texas and let them keep the Longhorn Network to themselves.

That's the first new wrinkle I've heard in 10 pages... I have no idea how it would work geographically long-term, but if the ACC was about to lose VT and FSU that's the one home run that could not only ensure it gets the best of the Big East when they merge but also preserves the ACC in the pre-Super Conference interim.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Personally I think it's just leverage. Texas is getting $20 million for the Longhorn Network plus conference revenues. Texas doesn't want to share regional revenues ... There are reports Texas is getting around $45 million in the Big 12.

Hmmm - the figures I've seen are that Texas gets $15M annually for the Longhorn Network. I'd be quite surprised if Texas is going to be pulling in $45M per in the Big-"12".

[TroyF]

Texas to the ACC? That would be interesting. Than the PAC 12 would have to come up with a 16th. Wonder what they would be looking at there. Would they go the BYU route (I don't see it) or would they try to grab a surprise team. (Boise St.?)

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Hence why it won't work. It would be a blast for a couple of years, but both schools -- especially KU -- will become bitter at having to play in front of hostile crowds far from home.

Mizzou will be Ok with it if we get as many BCS bids as we expect out of the deal. Whe Mizzou says the Big East is a better "cultural" it than the SEC, it means we think we can dominate everything except baskball.

If that is the case and Missouri would be willing to bypass an SEC payday for the sake of winning, you guys would be smarter to rebuild the Big 12.

If you want to dominate a league, being the anchor in a conference of Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, and a handful of CUSA/MWC schools (Houston, Memphis, SMU, Air Force, and maybe a school in New Mexico and/or Nevada) would be the way to go. If the Big 12 leftovers add the right MWC teams, they would almost certainly keep their BCS bid.