Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Ksyrup]

@kbohls: If you had to put percentages on it, I'd put chances of Texas in Pac-Whatever at 70%, remaining in Big 12 30%.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Where do the OK teams go? East or West?

They apparently have open offers from both SEC and Pac-XX. I think Mizzou fans would love to see them fill out the SEC just so we keep some rivalries. I'm guessing it would make it easier for the SEC to lay out divisions as well. Put those four in with four west SEC teams (LSU, Arky, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Vandy would be the available options to choose from off the top of my head).

I know some are tired of this stuff, but I find the whole thing absolutely fascinating despite the turmoil for Mizzou's conference over the last 18 months.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

I love people quoting that the league is 'too unstable'. The league just got a massive TV contract last season. If that isn't a prime indicator of stability, I don't know what is. It is like someone rocking a boat, and then complaining about rough seas and seasickness. And if someone tells them to stop rocking the boat, they reply "stop telling me what to do".

A massive contract based on what? Current membership. If Big 12 loses more than TAMU right now, the momentum will be "every school for itself." Is Texas willing to put in the effort it will take to stop that momentum? I don't think so.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

They apparently have open offers from both SEC and Pac-XX. I think Mizzou fans would love to see them fill out the SEC just so we keep some rivalries. I'm guessing it would make it easier for the SEC to lay out divisions as well. Put those four in with four west SEC teams (LSU, Arky, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Vandy would be the available options to choose from off the top of my head).

I know some are tired of this stuff, but I find the whole thing absolutely fascinating despite the turmoil for Mizzou's conference over the last 18 months.

Wait - UK, Tennessee and Vandy are all east teams.

[cartman]

That's what makes A&M's move all the more puzzling. The financial move is a wash. Then the next reason is because of Texas. If there is really that much animosity towards Texas in the Big 12, it would seem there would be more than enough votes to "rein Texas in". That would seem to be a much easier path than going through the whole rigamarole of switching conferences. For those pointing to the LHN, remember that the other teams in the conference voted unanimously to allow Texas to pursue their own path for Tier 3 TV rights.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

For those pointing to the LHN, remember that the other teams in the conference voted unanimously to allow Texas to pursue their own path for Tier 3 TV rights.

Because Colorado and Nebraska just left, there were rumors of other defections (including, of course, Texas) and Texas took advantage of the situation to force the issue, leaving obviously disgruntled co-members.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

A massive contract based on what? Current membership. If Big 12 loses more than TAMU right now, the momentum will be "every school for itself." Is Texas willing to put in the effort it will take to stop that momentum? I don't think so.

Agreed. Three teams just walked out of the conference with 7 National Championships and 76 Conference Championships. I think that's a pretty significant departure.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Because Colorado and Nebraska just left, there were rumors of other defections (including, of course, Texas) and Texas took advantage of the situation to force the issue, leaving obviously disgruntled co-members.

Which apparently would have been disgruntled regardless.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Wait - UK, Tennessee and Vandy are all east teams.

I was just going through the schools near the Missouri-Oklahoma-Texas corridor that might be options. I'm sure the dynamics of how divisions are set up is rivalry-based, not geography-based. Those five would be the western-most schools geographically, right? I agree that there are other rivalries that are considered that can change that situation.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm hoping for
4. Enough members of the SEC realize that adding A&M does nothing to make the conference stronger & declines the application. Hilarity ensues when ...

5. Fed up, the B12/10/9 finalized a deal with a replacement & kicks A&M to the curb.

(while 5 is highly unlikely, it'd still be funny to watch)

Rooting for this now.

"Texas A&M applies to Mountain West, sobs."

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I was just going through the schools near the Missouri-Oklahoma-Texas corridor that might be options. I'm sure the dynamics of how divisions are set up is rivalry-based, not geography-based. Those five would be the western-most schools geographically, right? I agree that there are other rivalries that are considered that can change that situation.

Do you mean western-most east division schools? Because both Mississippi schools and Alabama schools are further west than all of them, except Vandy (which is only west of Auburn, not the others).

If you took 4 Big 12 teams, you'd have a major west/east imbalance. And unfortunately for the SEC, Leaders and Legends are already taken as division names...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Do you mean western-most east division schools? Because both Mississippi schools and Alabama schools are further west than all of them, except Vandy (which is only west of Auburn, not the others).

If you took 4 Big 12 teams, you'd have a major west/east imbalance. And unfortunately for the SEC, Leaders and Legends are already taken as division names...

I was ignoring current divisional alignment and just looking at geography. You'd have to adjust something to make that happen. It's pretty obvious from the current SEC alignment that geography isn't exactly lined up even under the current configuration.

[Ksyrup]

On a strictly east/west basis, the current alignment is correct other than Auburn being slightly east of Nashville. Nashville is the furthest west of the eastern division schools. Lexington's no further west than Atlanta, and of course Knoxville, Columbia, Athens, and Gainesville are all east of Atlanta.

[Ksyrup]

If they were to reconfigure east/west with the 4 teams from teh Big 12, you'd have those 4, the 2 Mississippi schools, Arkansas, and LSU in the west and shift the 2 Alabama schools to the east.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's pretty obvious from the current SEC alignment that geography isn't exactly lined up even under the current configuration.

Umm ...


West = Arkansas, Ole Miss, Miss State, Bama, Auburn, LSU
East = SC, UGA, UT, FL, KY, Vandy

If by "pretty obvious" you mean that they flipped Auburn (to keep them with Bama) and Vandy (to keep them with UT) then yeah. Otherwise, it looks pretty damned close to me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

On a strictly east/west basis, the current alignment is correct other than Auburn being slightly east of Nashville. Nashville is the furthest west of the eastern division schools. Lexington's no further west than Atlanta, and of course Knoxville, Columbia, Athens, and Gainesville are all east of Atlanta.

I'm sure you're correct. I was looking at the general layout below, not the specific cities.

File:SEC-USA-states.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If they were to reconfigure east/west with the 4 teams from teh Big 12, you'd have those 4, the 2 Mississippi schools, Arkansas, and LSU in the west and shift the 2 Alabama schools to the east.

Yeah, the pic Jon posted clears it up quite a bit. I was off on the KY and TN school locations.

[MrBug708]

Not that I'm advocating the PAC-12 being better than the SEC (in any sort of jump) but I'm not sure Texas can handle TAMU being in a better conference (as of now)than them even if they do run it.

[Ksyrup]

Doesn't better = more money though? Quality of the football teams is far down the ladder. It's not like TAMU is going to compete for a title any decade soon with this move.

[digamma]

Humorous exchange among my friends...

Florida fan:

The SEC has won 5 straight national titles and has a huge TV deal. Why the hell do we want some half-rate school from Texas that looks exactly like Miss St?

Oklahoma fan:

Miss State is way hotter. Trust us on that point.

Texas fan:

Way hotter.

[Ksyrup]

Two ex-wives of Jackie Sherrill. Awkward.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Not that I'm advocating the PAC-12 being better than the SEC (in any sort of jump) but I'm not sure Texas can handle TAMU being in a better conference (as of now)than them even if they do run it.

I'm pretty sure that where ever they end up, Texas will consider it the best conference in the country. You may have noticed that they have a pretty healthy self esteem.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This is the crazy part of all of this. Everything I've seen both from private and public sources that have come out is that Texas doesn't want to be independent. They want to be in a conference that allows them to do what they want in regards to the network. The problem is that they've been involved in the breakup of two conferences in the last 15 or so years. None of the bigger schools want to gamble with that kind of record. Texas isn't going to change suddenly.

Also consider that Texas needs a home for all of their other sports. The basketball program is quite good, and the baseball program is arguably one of the top 2-3 in the country. They are quite successful in many of their other sports as well.

If they went independent in football (which would kill the Big-"12"), where would their other sports find a home that would be acceptable?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ping MJ4H....

You know anything about 'theoldsnort' over at Hogville.net? He's a global mod over there and is hinting that a 16 team SEC is coming quickly. Didn't know how reliable his info was and thought you might know.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Ping MJ4H....

You know anything about 'theoldsnort' over at Hogville.net? He's a global mod over there and is hinting that a 16 team SEC is coming quickly. Didn't know how reliable his info was and thought you might know.

Speaking as a mod here on FOFC, I give you my permission to disseminate my "information" on the pending Big East/ACC supermerger.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Ping MJ4H....

You know anything about 'theoldsnort' over at Hogville.net? He's a global mod over there and is hinting that a 16 team SEC is coming quickly. Didn't know how reliable his info was and thought you might know.

No I don't. I will look into it.

[MacroGuru]

[rant]

So do you mind if i just say shut the fuck up right now...not to you guys but to all the "pundits" and team message board "gods" and "insiders"

Holy hell, I can't go anywhere on a BYU forum without having to wade through a ton of horse shit that says...BYU HAS TO TAKE INVITE TO B12 or BYU MUST STAY INDEPENDENT HERE IS WHY...

Cmon, we play Ole Miss on Saturday in our first season as an independent with probably the deepest and talented team BYU has had in years and all I see is the talk about this.

[/rant]

[MJ4H]

please beat them btw

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

please beat them btw

I think we will but it will be close...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Virginia Tech spokesperson for their president makes it pretty clear that VT is not considering any moves.

Alabama | MrSEC.com

Heard a radio interview of Tony Barnhart today. He said that he believes the SEC has already settled on Mizzou as the 14th member. Expects Auburn to be the team that moves from the West to the East Division. Will play a nine game football schedule with 6 division games, 2 rivalry games against other division every year, and then rotate the final game with the remaining five schools in the other division.

[MrBug708]

9 games might actually bring the SEC back to earth

I don't buy it

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Virginia Tech spokesperson for their president makes it pretty clear that VT is not considering any moves.

Alabama | MrSEC.com

Heard a radio interview of Tony Barnhart today. He said that he believes the SEC has already settled on Mizzou as the 14th member. Expects Auburn to be the team that moves from the West to the East Division. Will play a nine game football schedule with 6 division games, 2 rivalry games against other division every year, and then rotate the final game with the remaining five schools in the other division.

I never saw VPI leaving the ACC as a realistic possibility. If the Big 10 makes a move on Mizzou then we could see a major shakeup among the conferences. If they don't and Mizzou is the 14th SEC team then I'd expect the Big 12 to fill those 2 spots in order to try to keep the conference together and we won't don't see much else for the next several months.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

9 games might actually bring the SEC back to earth

I don't buy it

Most believe that nine games are going to be the new standard in the superconferences. It eliminates a cupcake game, which provides an extra week of good matchups for TV and fans. Eight games might work for a 14 team conference, but nine games make perfect sense for a 16 team conference. 7 games in-division and play the other division teams once every four years.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I never saw VPI leaving the ACC as a realistic possibility. If the Big 10 makes a move on Mizzou then we could see a major shakeup among the conferences. If they don't and Mizzou is the 14th SEC team then I'd expect the Big 12 to fill those 2 spots in order to try to keep the conference together and we won't don't see much else for the next several months.

Makes sense. I think things may have moved quicker if the A&M situation didn't get so mucked up in the legal end of the deal. As it is, it doesn't appear there's enough time to make changes this year that would allow for a move next year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Expects Auburn to be the team that moves from the West to the East Division. Will play a nine game football schedule with 6 division games, 2 rivalry games against other division every year, and then rotate the final game with the remaining five schools in the other division.

Let's see here, based on the current permanent opponent (plus the most obvious new one)

Alabama gets Auburn & Tennessee
LSU gets Florida & ? (maybe Kentucky)
Ole Miss gets Vandy & ?
Miss State gets Kentucky & ?
Arkansas gets SC & ?
A&M gets ? & ?
Mizzou gets ? & ?

The question would seem to be who gets stuck with the two newcomers as a permanent? No particular offense intended but there's still a lot of fans who haven't really accepted Arkansas as a member a decade after expansion, I can only imagine how well fans are going to like newer members (one of which seems decidedly unsouthern).

A&M has played (last meeting in paren)
Auburn 2x (1985), Florida 2x (1976) Georgia 5x (2009), Kentucky 2x (1953), Tennessee 2x (2004), Vandy 0x, South Carolina 0x

Mizzou has played
Auburn 1x (1973), Florida 1x (1965), Georgia 1x (1959), Kentucky 2 (1968), South Carolina 2x (2005), Vandy 2x (1958), Tennessee 0x

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Let's see here, based on the current permanent opponent (plus the most obvious new one)

Alabama gets Auburn & Tennessee
LSU gets Florida & ? (maybe Kentucky)
Ole Miss gets Vandy & ?
Miss State gets Kentucky & ?
Arkansas gets SC & ?
A&M gets ? & ?
Mizzou gets ? & ?

The question would seem to be who gets stuck with the two newcomers as a permanent? No particular offense intended but there's still a lot of fans who haven't really accepted Arkansas as a member a decade after expansion, I can only imagine how well fans are going to like newer members (one of which seems decidedly unsouthern).

A&M has played (last meeting in paren)
Auburn 2x (1985), Florida 2x (1976) Georgia 5x (2009), Kentucky 2x (1953), Tennessee 2x (2004), Vandy 0x, South Carolina 0x

Mizzou has played
Auburn 1x (1973), Florida 1x (1965), Georgia 1x (1959), Kentucky 2 (1968), South Carolina 2x (2005), Vandy 2x (1958), Tennessee 0x

As a Mizzou fan I would pull for Vandy and Kentucky. Hopefully the big boys will want to play long time SEC teams and so Mizzou gets stuck with 2 winnable games every year. (Since the rest of their schedule looks brutal)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

As a Mizzou fan I would pull for Vandy and Kentucky.

Well no shit

If I had to hazard a guess right now, they'll stick the Vols with Mizzou, UGA with A&M, put one of the MS schools with SC (since they got the last expansion team as a perm already), the other MS school gets Auburn, then Vandy & Kentucky each get one of the B12 teams for their other slot. I think that covers everybody.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The PR war of words continues. From Chipper..........

In fact, I was told by a source with intimate knowledge of the situation the SEC will not take Missouri because the SEC doesn't want to be responsible for the collapse of the Big 12.

Translation: UT admins have told me that they want to make sure that Mizzou takes all the blame if a conference break-up occurs because it's clearly not the fault of Texas.

Orangebloods.com - What's next for the Big 12?

Meanwhile, from the Mizzou AD.......

Dear Tiger Fans:

As you are likely aware, Texas A&M has informed the Big 12 Conference that they will be making application to another league for their future athletic conference affiliation. That announcement was made this morning in a letter to the Big 12 from President R. Bowen Loftin of Texas A&M.

With the impending departure of the Aggies, where does the Big 12 Conference stand on its future? Dan Beebe, as our Commissioner, is focused on maintaining the Big 12 as a strong and viable league in college athletics. Dan and his leadership team at the Conference Office are working to expand the schools in our league and they have taken an aggressive approach in this manner. As you might imagine, those workings by the league offices are highly confidential and require a great amount of research, coordination and focus.

Dr. Brady Deaton, who is our Chancellor at Mizzou, is the current Chair of the Board of Directors of the Big 12. I know that Dr. Deaton, myself and all of us at Mizzou are committed to working hard to keep the Big 12 a strong and successful conference. We look to Commissioner Beebe and the Big 12 staff to develop and implement the plans necessary for the future.

Translation: Commissioner Beebe's leadership is the one that got us in this mess. It's his job to figure a way out of it and it better be in a big hurry.

Rest assured that the Mizzou “brand” is extremely strong nationally. We are the flagship institution of the State of Missouri with over 5.7 million residents who passionately follow our University and the Tigers. As a proud member of the prestigious Association of American Universities, we are equally proud of the national recognition Mizzou Athletics has received for our academic, social and competitive accomplishments. Our success wouldn’t be possible without the great support of our students, faculty, staff, alumni and fans.

The landscape of college athletics continues to evolve, and we will collaborate with the Big 12 staff leadership to guide that direction of our league. Thanks for your patience, understanding and support.

Translation: We're in a good position as a university to land in a superconference if things continue to go south. Don't even sweat it.

[Toddzilla]

Bah - Virginia Tech did the same song and dance as members of hte Big East when the ACC started expansion. They even filed a lawsuit against Miami, BC, and Syracuse for leaving the conference. Only when the Syracuse bid failed and VT was presented with an invitation did they change their story. Trust me, Virginia Tech is playing both sides right now and they will deny deny deny on the strongest possible terms until the SEC invitation is made. Then you'll see them backpedal at record speed.

[henry296]

I did see some reports that the Big 12 wants Pitt to replace Texas A&M. Pitt of course denies. Makes no sense to me, but figured I add to the rumor mill.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by henry296

I did see some reports that the Big 12 wants Pitt to replace Texas A&M. Pitt of course denies. Makes no sense to me, but figured I add to the rumor mill.

The Pitt and ND rumors to the B12 make no sense at all. Those teams would leave their current situation to play in a lame duck conference against ISU, KSU, KU, Baylor, etc.? If I'm a Pitt or ND, I'd be panicked if my leadership thought that was a better situation than their current location. Point being I seriously doubt they think that.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, no way BE schools with rivals tied to that league go play in a dustbowl league with a bunch of teams that they're not linked to. I mean, it might help recruiting I guess...and perhaps fans will feel legitimized playing against teams that once derided them. But...seems like a heavy price to play to hang out in Texas backyard and get their scraps.

But this process is all sort of funny, so who knows...

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by panerd

As a Mizzou fan I would pull for Vandy and Kentucky. Hopefully the big boys will want to play long time SEC teams and so Mizzou gets stuck with 2 winnable games every year. (Since the rest of their schedule looks brutal)

I wasn't gonna say that.

I'm not gonna say I wasn't THINKING it.

But I wasn't gonna come right out and say that.

[Eaglesfan27]

There is a lot of talk on the USC message board that Oklahoma is ready to jump to the Pac-16 soon and that it will set up a domino effect of bringing along Texas, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State. I hope it happens.

[MrBug708]

Welcome to two months ago USC board

[Solecismic]

These rumors are rather odd and somewhat contradictory. In some places, we have schools that refuse to allow a state rival to enter their conference. And in others, we have schools that are tied to state rivals so tightly that one can't move without the other. In other words, I don't believe anything until someone goes on the record and says it.

If the Pac 12 can add Texas and Oklahoma, it may well be worth taking two low-revenue schools (the State problem and the Tech problem). But unless they're getting a top-30 revenue-prestige school, the top three conferences (Big Ten, Pac 12, SEC) have no incentive to even consider an application.

Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Texas and maybe Missouri meet that threshold. I don't think the Big Ten is even paying attention right now, unless Texas or Notre Dame calls.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

There is a lot of talk on the USC message board that Oklahoma is ready to jump to the Pac-16 soon and that it will set up a domino effect of bringing along Texas, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State. I hope it happens.

I hope it happens too. I have serious reservations about bringing Texas into the Pac fold, but the sooner we get to 16 teams the sooner we can get away from this shitty north/south split. I could really care less about which teams make up the eastern division, as long as the west is the old Pac-8 I’ll be happy as pie.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Texas and maybe Missouri meet that threshold. I don't think the Big Ten is even paying attention right now, unless Texas or Notre Dame calls.

I'd totally disagree that the Big Ten isn't paying attention. They're just waiting in the weeds for the SEC or Pac-XX to pull the trigger. There are a lot of panicked admins right now in the big conferences that don't sit as well as the schools you mention above.

Saw this from an A&M board. There's more than one B12 team that would love for the other SEC team to come from the east side so they don't have to be the one to push a conference past 13 teams.

I'm hearing from SEC sources that they have No. 14 in their back pocket but there's been a flurry of activity and phone calls to the SEC office today from several schools including some from the Big 12 that they are going to see what turns up before committing to this other school (would be east division).

It's like a department store on the day after Thanksgiving and people pounding on the doors at 5:00 AM waiting for the store to open. Everybody is jockeying for position...I'm not just talking SEC but the other major conferences as well.

This is going to a be one heckuva free-for-all. Good thing that A&M already has its seat and popcorn. If you ask me, there's a good chance the Big 12 doesn't survive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

B12 is trying to block Freedom of Information Act request. It won't work, but they're delaying as long as they can.

Big 12 trying to keep prying eyes out - CBSSports.com

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd totally disagree that the Big Ten isn't paying attention. They're just waiting in the weeds for the SEC or Pac-XX to pull the trigger. There are a lot of panicked admins right now in the big conferences that don't sit as well as the schools you mention above.

Saw this from an A&M board. There's more than one B12 team that would love for the other SEC team to come from the east side so they don't have to be the one to push a conference past 13 teams.

That actually sounds like it could be West Virginia, unless the "gentlemen's agreement" stuff is out the door.

If it isn't Clemson, FSU/Miami, Georgia Tech, or Louisville (due to the SEC already having an in-state presence) and it is an Eastern team, you would think that the other two more likely Eastern candidates (NC State and VPI) would have some hurdles to jump through (ie: not be considered in their back pocket). WVU has no political ties, would jump before the words came out, and would probably even take a reduced payout for a few years (the Big East's current deal is so miniscule compared to the other BCS conferences, nearly any table scraps from a legit TV contract would improve their revenue).