Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

I understand that part of the act involves bullying. I just think it sometimes goes too far or is unnecessary. I didn't see any point in Cena starting up a chant for her last night. They could have gotten the point across just fine without the slut shaming (kissing and flirting makes you a hoe in WWE world apparently). The message I took from it is that it's cool to shame someone like that.

I thought the LayCool thing with Mickie James was stupid too. But I understood they were heels and if anything the message was that they were evil and wrong. Seemed a little too much considering how touchy the issue is for young women and the fact that Mickie has a perfectly healthy body.

I think it can be done tastefully. I didn't think last night's was. It seemed like an unnecessary bit to appease Vince. Not to mention that with such a young audience it doesn't seem smart to direct these toward women. If you're going to do the anti-bullying campaign, don't try and make it seem cool a few minutes later.

[RainMaker]

CM Punk responded to Chris Brown and challenged him to a fight.

Twitvid

Also thought Cena's promo on the Rock was really good and I wish they'd let him use that character more and drop the cheesy crap he uses 90% of the time.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

CM Punk responded to Chris Brown and challenged him to a fight.

Twitvid

Wait, so in CM Punk's world, women are respected and revered?

Did he quit professional wrestling?

[Suicane75]

If you have a problem that the law can't solve, perhaps you should hire The A-ce Team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Saw this floating around today, attributed to Wrestling Observer

The early word on the TNA Against All Odds pay-per-view is that the show drew around 7,000 buys.

Just wow.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Saw this floating around today, attributed to Wrestling Observer



Just wow.

What were they getting at their all time best? I really have the slightest idea what they were getting or what say the WWE Wrestlemania gets for buy rates.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

What were they getting at their all time best? I really have the slightest idea what they were getting or what say the WWE Wrestlemania gets for buy rates.

Of course there's mostly only "sources" that float numbers around that aren't confirmed or denied officially but ... 2010 buyrates were generally believed to average about 10k for regular PPV's, as high as 30k for Bound for Glory.

By 2011, BFG was being cited as 20k-25k, so a drop to 7k is pretty much in line with that I guess.

By comparison, here's the latest from the 2011 WWE earnings report
WWE Hell in a Cell – 182,000 (compared to 210,000 in 2010)
WWE Vengeance – 121,000 (compared to 137,000 as Bragging Rights in 2010)
Survivor Series 2011 – 281,000 (compared to 244,000 in 2010)
WWE TLC – 179,000 (compared to 195,000 in 2010)

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Of course there's mostly only "sources" that float numbers around that aren't confirmed or denied officially but ... 2010 buyrates were generally believed to average about 10k for regular PPV's, as high as 30k for Bound for Glory.

By 2011, BFG was being cited as 20k-25k, so a drop to 7k is pretty much in line with that I guess.

By comparison, here's the latest from the 2011 WWE earnings report
WWE Hell in a Cell – 182,000 (compared to 210,000 in 2010)
WWE Vengeance – 121,000 (compared to 137,000 as Bragging Rights in 2010)
Survivor Series 2011 – 281,000 (compared to 244,000 in 2010)
WWE TLC – 179,000 (compared to 195,000 in 2010)

Wow, that is substantial. I wonder if they will be able to keep up operations much longer. They had a decent product and changed it to try to compete with the WWE and now they probably screwed themselves.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Wow, that is substantial. I wonder if they will be able to keep up operations much longer.

For ever how long Daddy wants (and is able) to keep his dumbass daughter busy to keep her away from the family business.

There's really never been much of a financial justification for TNA's existence.

[Suicane75]

I honestly would love to hear someone in TNA explain their business model to me. They seem to have no interest in PPV and have been content with the same ratings for what seems like a decade now. I get why Dixies dad is letting her have a play toy but I'd so much love to hear her explain what the goal of TNA is.

[molson]

So TNA Impact gets around 1/3 of the TV viewers that RAW does, but only about 5% of the PPV buys of a bad WWE PPV. That's crazy. It's definitely the different booking philosophy. TNA treats a PPV as just another show, and they often use it to set up big matches on free TV. And maybe the fact that TV is the biggest show they have helps their TV ratings, who knows. Maybe 1/3 the TV and 5% of the buyrates is better than 1/5 of the TV and 15% of the buyrates. PPV is dying out, I think they're smart not to depend on it, if that's what they're consciously doing.

I think they should do a TNA gimmick PPV where the audience is all 7,000 people that bought the last PPV. Fly them in and everything.

[Mota]

I agree with you there, Molson. I think they treat PPV as an annoyance that comes every 4 weeks and interrupts their TV.
I don't buy TNA PPV but half the time the main event is redone on Impact the following week, it's ridiculous how poorly they treat PPV buyers.

[jbergey22]

It is impressive how the Rock can come back and have the crowd eating up everything he says. I swear I havent heard a WWE crowd that hot for 10 years.

[SirFozzie]

except the rock got his ass verbally destroyed by Cena last night.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

except the rock got his ass verbally destroyed by Cena last night.

MY DVR cut off right as Cena got to the ring. I set it to go 10 minutes longer and its still not long enough a lot of times for RAW.

[cmp]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

except the rock got his ass verbally destroyed by Cena last night.

Still didn't change the crowd though.

[cmp]

They've actually made Cena interesting again with this feud. That in itself makes this feud a success.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rock v Cena, Jericho v Punk ... has there ever been more promo skill going head to head at once? I don't think they're all at their best right now, but the potential for any of them to hit a prodigious homerun is there every time they grab a mic.

None of them are Flair at his best IMO but I don't know there's been a better promo'ing foursome all actively engaged at the same time in any promotion.

Austin/DX/Rock maybe worth consideration but I don't recall a 4th participant that was their equal at the time. NWO storyline didn't lend itself to having people come across as equals.

Who/what am I leaving out here?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

except the rock got his ass verbally destroyed by Cena last night.

That was shocking to say the least - Cena absolutely owned the Rock - and the quip about the notes on his wrist made be LOveryL

[Comey]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

That was shocking to say the least - Cena absolutely owned the Rock - and the quip about the notes on his wrist made be LOveryL

I thought he did last year, for a few weeks running. A lot of people don't give Cena credit for last year's promos against The Rock, but I thought they were extraordinary. And I'm a massive Rock mark. Cena has consistently destroyed him. The Rock has not adjusted to the times, and seems lost in it.

[SirFozzie]

Well, I'm sure at least some of it is thaey don't want the guy who's going to be with the company after WM to be massively booed, so the Rock is taking it easy on him, and Rock really doesn't have to do much to get the crowd eating out of his palm..

it's more an attempt to build Cena up then tear Rock down.

[Suicane75]

Agree with Comey on Cena although I wouldn't say he's destroying The Rock. Holding his own for sure however. When Cena brings out his harder edge character he's usually awesome. The problem is that the night after Wrestlemania he'll be back to cracking poop jokes and being the goofy go along guy.

The whole WM card is shaping up pretty good both quality and angle wise. I think all top 4 matches have the potential to be very good in ring and intriguing as to who will go over.

Monday morning booking however is making me wish they'd gone with Henry or Big Show being built as the monster going after Bryan and pairing Sheamus off with the other one, but whatevs, Bryan can get a great match out of any of em.

[Mota]

Who would've thought that Daniel Bryan would be World Heavyweight Champion for FIVE months? That's insane. I thought he was going to be a 2-3 week champion based on how they were booking him.

I'm really enjoying the character, not especially the vegan part but I think he's very successful as the guy that the fans want to see get his butt kicked. He's not a coward character either, he goes face to face with Big Show or Mark Henry before those "barely escapes" moments. Very cool.

[bulletsponge]

plus his in ring GF is so fucking sexy

[CU Tiger]

came here just to see the reaction to the rock's promo...disappointed in no buzz.

[RainMaker]

I think all the storylines have been really bad. Rock-Cena is still a must watch, but they are trying hard to kill all the buzz going into it.

[Mota]

Scary that one year ago, they were doing 3.8 - 3.9 ratings and pushing for a 4.0 with the Rock there as a special guest referee.

This year with Rock in the main event, they're doing 3.2 - 3.3.

All that work Cena has been doing in the last year to drag down the Rock and tell us why we should hate him for not being there. All that work Rock does to tell us why Cena is fruity like a bowl of cereal is also working. They've both been brought down instead of elevated.

I thought the CM Punk / Jericho segment this week was FINALLY something to make the match memorable. Two great talkers and storytellers and they were doing the most generic build to WM ever. I'm anxious to see what they have in store for us next week!

[Mota]

Dola

These guys haven't been allowed to say the word wrestler, or belt, or a million other things that McMahon doesn't like.

They should also not be allowed to use a wrestler's negatives as a talking point, ever. That never works. Ric Flair was great at that at his peak. He took a midcarder and would cower in front of him and make him look like a main eventer. He'd get his Four Horsemen to run interference. And then he'd make the guy look like a star before he'd beat him, which in turn made himself look better.

If you take a main eventer and make him look like a midcarder, when you beat him, you just beat a midcarder. That happens way too much these days, and there's lots of guys that are guilty of that.

[DeToxRox]

WM spoiler, be advised

Spoiler

Meltzer is reporting Brock signed a one year deal with WWE. It sounds like it's very much a part time type schedule but he'll work more than Taker

[jbergey22]

Completely agree with you Mota.

They were able to somehow drop the ball on Cena/Rock and make people not interested at all. Too long of a hype period with very little of importance happening in between. Punk and Jericho will steal the show so I am pumped about that.

[DeToxRox]

Take this for what it is worth

Spoiler

Front Row Brian as he goes on Twitter is incredibly well connected in the MMA world. He has broken a ton of stories on his twitter well before anyone else has them. He is reporting this today:

Breaking News... Brock Lesnar's WWE deal is for 1 year, 15 appearances and 5 million dollars.

[kingfc22]

That was one entertaining match between HHH and Undertaker.

[Matthean]

Reading spoilers via online, but sounds like the crowd is hating the Cena/The Rock match.

[jbergey22]

It was a decent match I thought. I think it is ridiculous how many kickouts we see from finishers in Wrestlemania. Abusing it so much that now its not even a big deal from kicking out on a finisher. So many times they feel the need to take the tradition out of wrestling.

[Neon_Chaos]

Surprised by the winner of the Rock-Cena match. But not complaining.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It was a decent match I thought. I think it is ridiculous how many kickouts we see from finishers in Wrestlemania.

+ 1, 2......OH!!!!

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

+ 1, 2......OH!!!!

I don't mind it too much as long as the guys in the ring can pull it off. Plus it is WrestleMania.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

I don't mind it too much as long as the guys in the ring can pull it off. Plus it is WrestleMania.

I just think they go a little over the top with it. And Cole says the same thing almost everytime when you know he will kick out at 2 3/4.

[RainMaker]

Anyone know why they did that to Bryan? Did he fail a drug test or something?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I just think they go a little over the top with it. And Cole says the same thing almost everytime when you know he will kick out at 2 3/4.

Followed by the same astonished look from the wrestler that did the finisher.

[Matthean]

Ha do you smell what the rock is cooking? Its john cena served up with brodus clays mommas stu with a side of shawn Michael's lazy eye

This could also go in the FB post fail thread.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Anyone know why they did that to Bryan? Did he fail a drug test or something?

Mcmahon wanted to shit on him for getting over with the fans without his permission

[Atocep]

I watched the HHH/Undertaker match, the Punk/Jericho match, and the Rock/Cena match. I liked all 3 matches although the Taker/HHH match really stood out.

The Rock/Cena match couldn't have possibly lived up to what people were hoping to see and it seemed like the crowd was having a tough time getting into it because there was too much time between action. Watching someone in a submission drag the other wrestler to the ropes to break it for what seemed like the 1,000th time during the PPV and then watching the Rock and Cena lay on the mat for a couple of minutes over and over again took the air out of the match IMO. It was still an entertaining match and I'm surprised they let the Rock win.

[Comey]

A friend of mine, who used to work for WWE Creative, believes this was a message to the current generation that they aren't doing the job. Every single winner tonight was from the old generation (save Punk, who appears to be the exception). Even the women couldn't escape it (where a TV host went over).

Dark days are ahead for the company.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Comey

Every single winner tonight was from the old generation (save Punk, who appears to be the exception)

Umm... Sheamus.

While technically there wasn't an old gen wrestler in that one, they did let a new gen guy go over, claiming the #2 belt in the company in the bargain at that.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm... Sheamus.

While technically there wasn't an old gen wrestler in that one, they did let a new gen guy go over, claiming the #2 belt in the company in the bargain at that.

In asinine fashion.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Comey

A friend of mine, who used to work for WWE Creative, believes this was a message to the current generation that they aren't doing the job. Every single winner tonight was from the old generation (save Punk, who appears to be the exception). Even the women couldn't escape it (where a TV host went over).

Dark days are ahead for the company.

Easy to blame the workers when creative is the bigger problem. Build and bury is their theme.

I guess it is good news that they are figuring out things arent working so hopefully changes are on the way. I think they forget that people want the drama but they dont want everything so over the top anymore. It worked for awhile but that time has passed. Lets get it back to being a staged sport 1st and add the soap opera aspects later.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Easy to blame the workers when creative is the bigger problem. Build and bury is their theme.

Even if they are getting buried, how many of them actually put together the better matches from last night? In terms of quality of match, HHH vs. Undertaker seems to be the winner.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Even if they are getting buried, how many of them actually put together the better matches from last night? In terms of quality of match, HHH vs. Undertaker seems to be the winner.

Yeah they put on the best match. Undertaker has owned the past few wrestlemanias. I am just saying that it is hard for them to create another UT/HHH type when guys are constantly getting pushed/buried. I mean whats up with Randy Orton right now? He was over for awhile and now hes losing to Kane? I just really dont understand what the bookers are after.

I dont think the wrestling is the actual problem. Fans are just confused by the entire product. Shameus looked to be getting over, then he sucked for a year, now he holds the #2 belt in the company.

[Toddzilla]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if Zach Ryder was given a year off to do nothing but plan one match and film a few promos, he'd have a 5-star match, too.