Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Toddzilla]

Dear Commissioner Beebe:

As you know, the Texas A&M Board of Regents has authorized me to take action relating to Texas A&M University's ("Texas A&M") conference alignment. While this letter is not a notice of Texas A&M's withdrawal from the Big 12 Conference (the "Conference"), we are exploring our options. There has been a great deal of speculation and comment in the media about Texas A&M leaving the Conference, including discussions of other institutions joining the Conference.

If Texas A&M withdraws from the Conference, we want to do so in a way that complies with the Bylaws and is supportive of your efforts to seek a new member of the Conference. We would appreciate your conferring with the other member institutions and outlining for us the process to be followed by Texas A&M should it withdraw from the Conference.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

R. Bowen Loftin
President

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

SMU has stated they will join the B12. Pretty even swap, IMO.

SMU seems to be a big up and coming program right now. They are really making inroads into Cali recruiting and making a lot of noise. No brainer for the B12.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Arkansas would make a good natural rivalry for you guys. But, it's kindof like anything else- does going to play Ole Miss do anything for ya?

Now, if KU had a chance to go to the SEC or would have to join, say, C-USA, sure I'd rather see them in the SEC (wow, would our football get killed). But, at the end of the day, I'd rather a bunch of the Big XII just all head together to, say, the Big East and keep a lot of those rivalries together.

SI

This is how I feel w/ WVU and the Big East, too. It would be great to land in the SEC or ACC, get better bowl/TV money, and have a seat when the music stops playing. But, I'd much rather play in the solidified Big East with our traditional rivals than try to fabricate new ones with SEC teams (we at least have some rivalries with ACC teams like Maryland/VPI/BC/Miami, to some degree, so that would be tolerable).

I'd honestly rather play in the Big East with the Big 12 North leftovers forming a Western Division with TCU and maybe Louisvile and/or Cincy (depending on how many teams we end up with. Plus, adding Kansas, KSU, and maybe Missouri to Big East basketball would be pretty sick.

[dawgfan]

The always excellent Jon Wilner weighs in with part 2 on his look at the Big-"12" and in particular what the options are for the Pac-12:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ns/#more-20844

It's pretty much what I expected - if Texas/ESPN are willing to negotiate, the Pac-12 could expand to 16 with Texas & Oklahoma as the key pieces (presumably Oklahoma State & Texas Tech would fill the other two spots).

Without Texas, it's a lot more difficult to make the case for expansion. Oklahoma holds a lot of value, but are there three more teams that pencil out financially? And even if there are, would those teams all add up to a workable conference?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Big 12 admin response.........

Big 12 Conference Statement - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The always excellent Jon Wilner weighs in with part 2 on his look at the Big-"12" and in particular what the options are for the Pac-12:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ns/#more-20844

It's pretty much what I expected - if Texas/ESPN are willing to negotiate, the Pac-12 could expand to 16 with Texas & Oklahoma as the key pieces (presumably Oklahoma State & Texas Tech would fill the other two spots).

Without Texas, it's a lot more difficult to make the case for expansion. Oklahoma holds a lot of value, but are there three more teams that pencil out financially? And even if there are, would those teams all add up to a workable conference?

I think taking OSU would be worthwhile for the Pac 12 in order to get Oklahoma. Adding Oklahoma gives the Pac xx another top 10, nationally relevant program (something they did not add during past expansions) and makes the Pac xx's championship game a whole lot more appealing (right now, I doubt a lot of non-West coast eyeballs are interested in it unless it is USC vs Oregon).

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Big 12 admin response.........

Big 12 Conference Statement - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

Would have held a lot more weight (and been a lot more telling) if the schools' ADs or presidents would have signed it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Would have held a lot more weight (and been a lot more telling) if the schools' ADs or presidents would have signed it.

I'm sure Dodds signed off on it.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think taking OSU would be worthwhile for the Pac 12 in order to get Oklahoma. Adding Oklahoma gives the Pac xx another top 10, nationally relevant program (something they did not add during past expansions) and makes the Pac xx's championship game a whole lot more appealing (right now, I doubt a lot of non-West coast eyeballs are interested in it unless it is USC vs Oregon).

Well, I really doubt the Pac-12 would expand just to 14 - 7-team divisions would force a really awkward split for the conference. So the question is less about Oklahoma State - you definitely take them to get Oklahoma - and more about what other two teams to bring in. If Texas is one of them, it's a no-brainer. If not, does taking (for example) Mizzou & Kansas pencil out financially, and would that division make sense for all involved in all the non-revenue sports in terms of travel and whatnot?

I think there's an argument to be made that the Pac-12 ought to do that regardless as a proactive move against expansion by the other BCS conferences given the limited expansion options the Pac-12 has, but Larry Scott knows better than I do.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Texas is acting like a jilted girlfriend at this point. The Minister of Information fires away......

Orangebloods.com - A&M fires warning shot with letter about leaving B12

[cartman]

Keep fucking that chicken, MBBF!

[MJ4H]

[Ksyrup]

A&M vs UT Last 5 yrs: A&M 3 wins, Texas 2. Last 25 yrs? A&M 13, Texas 12. Last 35? A&M 18, UT 17

[cartman]

Those W/L numbers aren't surprising. A&M's whole reason for being is to beat Texas. It is deeply ingrained in their culture. The majority of their chants and songs are about beating Texas. They sing them even at games against other teams. Don't believe me, look at the Aggie War Hymn: Aggie War Hymn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, their whole fight song is about an obsession with the University of Texas.

[Swaggs]

I don't think that Orangebloods article is bad -- it is actually pretty informative and doesn't seem to belittle A&M.

Looking at things rationally, if the Big 12 adds another team from Texas (and the rumor has been that adding Houston in place of A&M may appease the Texas government), I don't see how anyone can fault Texas from dropping A&M in favor of Notre Dame (and the guaranteed national TV exposure). Texas will still get 3 conference games in-state and still has (what I presume) its #1 rival left on the schedule.

From a Big East perspective, I'd love to see the Notre Dame relationship pay off for our conference. Maybe if we add some of the Big 12 North teams (Kansas, KSU, Iowa State?), to go with TCU, Texas would want to put its non-football sports in the Big East and play football independently.

[Ksyrup]

[gstelmack]

So when did we start abbreviating Virginia Tech "VPI" instead of "VT" in these threads?

[Toddzilla]

Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi
Tech Tech VPI

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi
Tech Tech VPI

I figured that part out, else my post would not exist. Just not sure when we switched from "VT" to "VPI" in here.

[Ksyrup]

I think there's only one or two people doing it. I've never even heard of calling VT VPI.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think there's only one or two people doing it. I've never even heard of calling VT VPI.

This guy has.

[Ksyrup]

That username means nothing to me in the context of VT.

[dacman]

Virginia
Polytechinical
Institute

Not seeing the issue here.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I don't think that Orangebloods article is bad -- it is actually pretty informative and doesn't seem to belittle A&M.

Looking at things rationally, if the Big 12 adds another team from Texas (and the rumor has been that adding Houston in place of A&M may appease the Texas government), I don't see how anyone can fault Texas from dropping A&M in favor of Notre Dame (and the guaranteed national TV exposure). Texas will still get 3 conference games in-state and still has (what I presume) its #1 rival left on the schedule.

The point isn't whether it's accurate, though most in the Big 12 would clearly disagree that it wasn't targeting A&M in any way. The point is that Chip Brown is playing the role of a puppet with Dodds hand up his ass. I'm calling a spade a spade. The information is being released because Texas wants to pressure other schools. It's the reason we're in this mess, yet Texas blindly still believes it can fire these salvos through Chip and thinks it will do anything other than splinter the conference.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by dacman

Virginia
Polytechinical
Institute

Not seeing the issue here.

There is no issue. I was just commenting that I didn't even realize it was the same school, other than by context in the posts here. I've never heard VT called VPI. I don't go around calling FSU FSCW, and I wouldn't expect anyone to automatically pick up that it's the same school, unless I mentioned Jimbo Fisher was the coach or something. So in the context of a national discussion of college football teams, I think it's a bit odd to be referring to them as VPI instead of VT, but that's obviously something people in Virginia are used to. I'm not.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The point isn't whether it's accurate, though most in the Big 12 would clearly disagree that it wasn't targeting A&M in any way. The point is that Chip Brown is playing the role of a puppet with Dodds hand up his ass. I'm calling a spade a spade. The information is being released because Texas wants to pressure other schools. It's the reason we're in this mess, yet Texas blindly still believes it can fire these salvos through Chip and thinks it will do anything other than splinter the conference.

Keep fucking that chicken, MBBF!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There is no issue. I was just commenting that I didn't even realize it was the same school, other than by context in the posts here. I've never heard VT called VPI. I don't go around calling FSU FSCW, and I wouldn't expect anyone to automatically pick up that it's the same school, unless I mentioned Jimbo Fisher was the coach or something. So in the context of a national discussion of college football teams, I think it's a bit odd to be referring to them as VPI instead of VT, but that's obviously something people in Virginia are used to. I'm not.

It's pretty common nomenclature when you're on enough boards, just even being around here as the "actual" name for Virginia Tech. You get used to it.

[Ksyrup]

No offense to VT, but even though they're in the ACC, I can't really say I spend too much time thinking about them. They're pretty much like any other opponent (though obviously a high quality one). There's no particular rivarlry or anything. I've either never seen the VPI thing or just glossed over it.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The always excellent Jon Wilner weighs in with part 2 on his look at the Big-"12" and in particular what the options are for the Pac-12:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ns/#more-20844

Per Wilner, “Notre Dame reportedly brings in $15 million annually from its NBC deal.”

So everyone in the SEC, Big10 and PAC-12 are making more than ND? What am I missing? If Indiana, Washington State and Vandy are making more than you, it might be time to look at the business model.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Per Wilner, “Notre Dame reportedly brings in $15 million annually from its NBC deal.”

So everyone in the SEC, Big10 and PAC-12 are making more than ND? What am I missing? If Indiana, Washington State and Vandy are making more than you, it might be time to look at the business model.

I know the PAC 12 deal is going to reportedly bring member schools around $21 million in 12-13...

[cartman]

The NBC-ND deal is in place until 2015. While other contracts have surpassed it this year, it wasn't until these most recent contracts that the amounts were more than what ND got. For almost 20 years the Irish were at the top of the college football TV revenue heap.

[bronconick]

Notre Dame's said a few times that they're willing to sacrifice some money for their independence as well.

It's not like the conferences are going to slam the door in their face if they change their mind in 20 years.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Keep fucking that chicken, MBBF!

You've made your point. You're a Texas fan and you disagree. You can stop trolling now.

[cartman]

You want to talk trolling, look at your own damn comments. You continually refer to Chip Brown as "information minister", which I can only take to be a reference to the Iraqi information minister, who was known for his wildly inaccurate comments. You then go on to state that the articles Chip Brown writes are indeed accurate. This is just one small example of your contributions to this board.

So other than prolonging your (note, this is the proper usage of 'your') epic streak of off-base comments and inaccurate predictions, what purpose can your ad hominem posts about Texas and Chris Brown serve?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

Texas and Chris Brown serve?

Damn, dude, didn't you beat him up enough?

[cartman]

oops, make that Chip

[Toddzilla]

Virginia Tech was known as VPI (Virginia Polytechnic Institute) through much of their history and in the 80's officially abandoned the VPI acronym in favor of VT. The official official name of the university is Virginia Polytech Institute and State University, or VPI&SU, which can still be properly used, however the emphasized name and abbreviation is Virginia Tech and VT.

VT is never properly referred to as Virginia Tech University or VTU.

And there is less then no chance in hell VT, VPI, or whatever going to the SEC. At least not while Jim Weaver is the AD.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

You want to talk trolling, look at your own damn comments. You continually refer to Chip Brown as "information minister", which I can only take to be a reference to the Iraqi information minister, who was known for his wildly inaccurate comments. You then go on to state that the articles Chip Brown writes are indeed accurate. This is just one small example of your contributions to this board.

So other than prolonging your (note, this is the proper usage of 'your') epic streak of off-base comments and inaccurate predictions, what purpose can your ad hominem posts about Texas and Chris Brown serve?

He's a mouthpiece of the University and little more. It's propaganda at its finest. Even the TT poster that I've been citing has noted that none of the information gets out unless someone has a purpose for it to be out. It's been a constant throughout this process and a huge reason why this conference is imploding. Yet they continue to do it thinking it will somehow scare the members into not leaving. This just in.......it's not working. Schools are still leaving for the same reason. Dodds is proving that Nebraska's comments in regards to UT being the problem were spot-on. And there's nothing worse than admitting that Nebraska was right from a Mizzou fan's perspective.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by dacman

Virginia
Polytechinical
Institute

Not seeing the issue here.

The full name is Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, so you might also hear them called Vippy Sue.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by dacman

Virginia
Polytechinical
Institute

Not seeing the issue here.

No issue, just commenting that until the last week or two, it was always "VT" around here. Then suddenly "VPI" starts cropping up. I was curious what prompted the change.

[cartman]

Somewhere, VPI97 is quietly sobbing.

[Kodos]

Vippie Sue - I like it!

[Toddzilla]

When I was a freshman at VaTech back in 1988, the Board of Regents had just made the decision to stop referring to the college as VPI, so they halted all production of VPI-labeled merchandise. I was lucky to get a sweatshirt before the bookstores ran out forever.

[Ksyrup]

Well, that probably explains it. I didn't really start following college football until the 90s. Although ironically, I lived in College Station in 83-85. But it's always been VT to me. Don't even recall it being called anything else even when the shootings occurred.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

The official official name of the university is Virginia Polytech Institute and State University, or VPI&SU, which can still be properly used

Actually...I'm not sure it can. The abbreviated version, that is.

http://www.branding.unirel.vt.edu/st...des/index.html

Our official name is Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, but the name is so cumbersome that using “Virginia Tech” in news releases, feature articles, academic journals, and publications is preferable. Never use an ampersand instead of “and.” Never use VPI&SU, VPI and SU, VA Tech, VPI, Va. Tech, or Virginia Tech University in printed matter. “Tech” is acceptable after a first reference to “Virginia Tech,” but it should not be used repeatedly or solely. “VT” and “Va. Tech” are acceptable only in limited, informal situations, such as a news headline where space is tight. Refrain from using “VT” and “Va. Tech” in body copy, titles of publications, on signs, or in any “formal” publication.

“VPI,” which was the university’s acronym/nickname from 1896 to 1970, should be used only in historical contexts. The same is true for “VAMC,” the university’s acronym/nickname before 1896.

[Logan]

This is the worst internet bickering I've ever seen!

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, let's get back to talking about how awesome it's going to be when Mizzou is in the Big10-SEC.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Yeah, let's get back to talking about how awesome it's going to be when Mizzou is in the Big10-SEC.

Or the Mountain West.

[britrock88]

Or what will happen when the untenable 16-team superconferences break up (see Western Athletic Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, 2.3).

[Swaggs]

Saw these posted elsewhere and thought I would share.

It is a two-part history (not very long) of the creation and expansion of the Big East, from long-time Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel that he wrote in 2000:
http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2001/8/8/history.aspx
http://www.suathletics.com/sports/20.../history2.aspx

Some of the key takeaways (some I knew, some I didn't) and blunders:
--Rutgers was offered in the original formation. They declined because they did not want to damage their relationship with Penn State (they were in the Atlantic 8/10 together for non-football sports). Their spot was then offered to Seton Hall.
--Obviously the biggie and most well-known, Penn State requested to join a couple of years after the league was established. They needed 6 votes to get in, but the final vote was 5-3. They were approached again later when the other conferences started to expand, but joined the Big Ten before any action could be taken.
--There was a split, even back when the football conference was developing, because the basketball schools didn't want to give up numbers, but they didn't want to risk losing Pitt/BC/Cuse. They compromised by allowing open invitations to UConn and Villanova in exchange for their expansion votes. St. John's president sided with the football schools, over the protests of their AD.
--Notre Dame was admitted, obviously, as an appeasement move to the basketball schools.
--One of the underrated keys (I know their fans are well-aware, but most aren't) is that the school played VPI and Temple (and to a lesser extent Rutgers and WVU, who were admitted after a couple of years) by not letting them join as full members for more than 7-years, making them keep their other sports in the Atlantic 10. It is interesting that the success of VPI during that time lead them to greater things in the ACC and the failure of Temple got them a demotion to a non-AQ conference.
--The other biggie, that I did not know, is that CBS approached the Big East football representatives at a football meeting about a contract, along with the SEC, to help beef up their college sports lineup, but they wanted football and basketball. The football reps were unable to make a move without the basketball schools and missed out on that potential golden opportunity (I would assume the basketball schools were too closely aligned with ESPN to consider making it happen).

Anyway, sorry for the long post. It is interesting to read, as the article is 10+ years old and makes it sound like things were headed in a great direction. I'd say the three biggest blunders were Rugers blowing their opportunity and letting Seton Hall take the forefront in NJ basketball, missing out on that CBS contract, and obviously blowing off Penn State (the only true anchor-type school in the Northeast).