The Trump Presidency – 2016

[EagleFan]

Pretty simple. Both were wrong, lock them up.

[Northwood_DK]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I was wondering about that, too. All indications are that, yeah, he can declassify stuff.

So it is not in violation of law but it might be a violation of the President’s oath of office.

Bombshell: Initial Thoughts on the Washington Post’s Game-Changing Story - Lawfare

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

We've seen this movie before. Why on EARTH do his people say stuff like this.

McMasters, Monday night: "Story is false. Colonel Jessup didn't order the Code Red.

Teh Donald, Tuesday morning: "YOU'RE GODDAMNED RIGHT I DID!!!!!1"

I know it wasn't posted here so Chief will think I'm just making it up, because apparently if it isn't discussed here it can't possibly be true, but I've greatly enjoyed watching the people throwing McMasters' statement around going into full turtle mode since Trump confirmed what he did.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Logan

I know it wasn't posted here so Chief will think I'm just making it up, because apparently if it isn't discussed here it can't possibly be true, but I've greatly enjoyed watching the people throwing McMasters' statement around going into full turtle mode since Trump confirmed what he did.

Watching twitter, for some reason the Russian bots are trying to flood the trends with "Seth Rich", I guess to make it all about Hillary again.

[JPhillips]

Some day there will be a tragic story to tell about the man that made his reputation writing a book criticizing the uniformed leadership for dereliction by not standing up to the political leaders, who then destroyed his reputation by refusing to stand up to the political leaders.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Logan

I know it wasn't posted here so Chief will think I'm just making it up, because apparently if it isn't discussed here it can't possibly be true, but I've greatly enjoyed watching the people throwing McMasters' statement around going into full turtle mode since Trump confirmed what he did.

He basically just went "when the president does it, it is not illegal".

[molson]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

He basically just went "when the president does it, it is not illegal".

There is some truth to that statement, in some contexts. You can't really be accused of trying to overthrow the government when you are the leader of the government. And you can't be accused of illegally disclosing classified information when you get to decide what information is classified. The president DOES have a lot of legal leeway that others do not - that's why this whole President Trump experience is so scary.

I'm sure there have been times when other presidents have shared classified information with allies. But of course with Trump, 0% of people, including his supporters, think he did so with any genuine purpose. Nobody, or almost nobody, is saying, "hey, he's the president, he's intelligently acting in our best interests here with a genuine purpose and we don't know the whole story" - because only a sociopath could say that without laughing.

[cartman]

Or, you know, the "Lock him up" post wasn't made in any seriousness, just as a response to how certain folks responded to the tweets that were brought back up.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

We've seen this movie before. Why on EARTH do his people say stuff like this.

McMasters, Monday night: "Story is false. Colonel Jessup didn't order the Code Red.

Teh Donald, Tuesday morning: "YOU'RE GODDAMNED RIGHT I DID!!!!!1"

As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2017

...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2017

The meeting wasn't open to U.S peess, just Russian press.

[Ben E Lou]

Erickson was a vocal #NeverTrump guy, but has defended him from media attacks at times (and to some degree does in this story.)

That said, I've never known him to post a flat-out lie, either. The way he phrases things here doesn't leave much room for interpretation or wiggle-room.

http://theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Erickson was a vocal #NeverTrump guy, but has defended him from media attacks at times (and to some degree does in this story.)

That said, I've never known him to post a flat-out lie, either. The way he phrases things here doesn't leave much room for interpretation or wiggle-room.

http://theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/

Honestly, I'd rather the Russians know whatever than the (D)s. I know which one I trust farther to get something right / in the best interest of the U.S.

If the options -- and that's where we seem to be -- are Trump or capitulating RINOs and pseudocons, I'll take my chances with Trump. That's all we've got left.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The meeting wasn't open to U.S peess, just Russian press.

That's my favorite little detail of the story. Maybe Trump will eventually cancel the white house press briefings, like he's been threatening, and exclusively brief the Russian press. Hell, maybe it'd be easier if he just did his work from Moscow, there has to be a resort near there he has some money in.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Honestly, I'd rather the Russians know whatever than the (D)s. I know which one I trust farther to get something right / in the best interest of the U.S.

If the options -- and that's where we seem to be -- are Trump or capitulating RINOs and pseudocons, I'll take my chances with Trump. That's all we've got left.

The party of Reagan now trusting the Russians with American interests.

Bozhe, khrani ameriku

[molson]

I'm getting a little fatigued from all these articles about how every Trump blunder is "the last straw". How "this time" EVEN some Republicans are turning on him! There's always been some Republicans speaking against him, and I think we're getting so used to incompetence that it will be impossible to have that one big mistake that rids us of him. All of it is just ordinary stuff in Trump's presidency. The peak of the actual resistance against him came back in October after he got the nomination, when a handful of Republicans did actually call on him to withdraw after that video came out. Now though, it looks like we'll just get blunder after blunder, with some Republicans expressing "concern" (and probably trying to limit the damage behind the scenes), but no real momentum towards making a change or promoting investigations for impeachable wrongs. This all won't end until 2020 - we just have to hope that the intelligence fuck-ups don't cause a big terrorist attack.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The meeting wasn't open to U.S peess, just Russian press.

Well of course not, it's the Russian gals he likes to watch.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm getting a little fatigued from all these articles about how every Trump blunder is "the last straw". How "this time" EVEN some Republicans are turning on him! There's always been some Republicans speaking against him, and I think we're getting so used to incompetence that it will be impossible to have that one big mistake that rids us of him. All of it is just ordinary stuff in Trump's presidency. The peak of the actual resistance against him came back in October after he got the nomination, when a handful of Republicans did actually call on him to withdraw after that video came out. Now though, it looks like we'll just get blunder after blunder, with some Republicans expressing "concern" (and probably trying to limit the damage behind the scenes), but no real momentum towards making a change or promoting investigations for impeachable wrongs. This all won't end until 2020 - we just have to hope that the intelligence fuck-ups don't cause a big terrorist attack.

I wish that the media would stop reporting when some GOPer "expresses concern" about Trump. It is meaningless. The only story at this point is if Congress is going to take action to remove him. If so, that's the story. If not, that's the story. Everything else is meaningless.

[SirFozzie]

Jon, I hope that when this is all over, you have a big enough bowl for all the crow we're going to forcefeed you, and I hope you choke down every last bit of it, and feel it burning in your stomach like hot lava.

Can't think why I'd feel this way, mind you.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm getting a little fatigued from all these articles about how every Trump blunder is "the last straw". How "this time" EVEN some Republicans are turning on him! There's always been some Republicans speaking against him, and I think we're getting so used to incompetence that it will be impossible to have that one big mistake that rids us of him. All of it is just ordinary stuff in Trump's presidency. The peak of the actual resistance against him came back in October after he got the nomination, when a handful of Republicans did actually call on him to withdraw after that video came out. Now though, it looks like we'll just get blunder after blunder, with some Republicans expressing "concern" (and probably trying to limit the damage behind the scenes), but no real momentum towards making a change or promoting investigations for impeachable wrongs. This all won't end until 2020 - we just have to hope that the intelligence fuck-ups don't cause a big terrorist attack.

I agree, once you cut through all the BS it comes down to this. There might, eventually be enough that get sick of him, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, and it's not going to happen because of Trump's hubris. It'll happen because the party starts legitimately losing vast chunks of real estate, of which they have a lot, right now. Until then, it's mostly overblown hype.

[Easy Mac]

McMaster just said the real problem is the media reporting on the conversations.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Jon, I hope that when this is all over, you have a big enough bowl for all the crow we're going to forcefeed you, and I hope you choke down every last bit of it, and feel it burning in your stomach like hot lava.

Can't think why I'd feel this way, mind you.

I honestly can't imagine any scenario where Jon would eat crow.

[jeff061]

Maybe when all his ideologies are proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be ineffective and harmful to him, his friends and family.

Right about the time the definitive answer on God's existence is proven.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Jon, I hope that when this is all over, you have a big enough bowl for all the crow we're going to forcefeed you, and I hope you choke down every last bit of it, and feel it burning in your stomach like hot lava.

Can't think why I'd feel this way, mind you.

I'd hope to see the country reduced to ash before the liberals finish destroying it.

It may already be too late for that (which I've often opined) so let's just say Trump having the football isn't something that bothers me in the slightest.

[NobodyHere]

I'd like to see Trump impeached just as much as the next guy, but I think this incident of Trump talking to the Russian is overblown

[Logan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'd like to see Trump impeached just as much as the next guy, but I think this incident of Trump talking to the Russian is overblown

In a vacuum, spilling classified intel to another country isn't the worst thing imaginable. It probably happens on a semi-frequent basis although it probably happens in a bit more of an organized manner. It's the potential consequences of doing so that could make it bad and actually hurt our country.

If Trump was in this meeting and heard something that triggered a piece of info he previously received, which caused him to make a calculated decision about sharing that either for our, Russia's, or another country's security, as he weighed the pros and cons of doing so, that would be one thing. It would be the job of the President and one I would certainly understand given the appropriate context.

Or he could have shared it because he wanted his Russian guests to know about this very special thing he knew and he just blurted it out without thinking of the ramifications.

Which do you think is the more likely scenario?

[AENeuman]

The main damage is, once again, another week is taken up with damage control rather than legislation to make America great again.

My guess is if this continues through the summer, voters and congress will resign themselves that this is new normal and Trump's agenda will never get off the ground. At that point, congress may be faced with a save the party/majority or save the president at the mid term.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

The main damage is, once again, another week is taken up with damage control rather than legislation to make America great again.

My guess is if this continues through the summer, voters and congress will resign themselves that this is new normal and Trump's agenda will never get off the ground. At that point, congress may be faced with a save the party/majority or save the president at the mid term.

I don't think this congress is going to produce any legislation "to make America great again". That's with or without Trump's distractions.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

My guess is if this continues through the summer, voters and congress will resign themselves that this is new normal and Trump's agenda will never get off the ground.

I'm unclear on why this would be a bad thing?

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm unclear on why this would be a bad thing?

It would be bad to Trump and the party if they have the majority and nothing gets done. If Trump loses the confidence of his base because of his largely self inflicted blunders, then mid terms are going to be a shellacking.

I mean, what is going to happen when his supporters realize he is not the White Knight they desperately wanted?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I mean, what is going to happen when his supporters realize he is not the White Knight they desperately wanted?

The GOP will point out that the other side is the Democrats, and they will still get 95%+ of the Trump voters to stay GOP. People are motivated by the letter next to your name. D or R is all that matters.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The GOP will point out that the other side is the Democrats, and they will still get 95%+ of the Trump voters to stay GOP. People are motivated by the letter next to your name. D or R is all that matters.

We need more parties, which in turn get us more connected to issues than being on the winning or losing side. When either side of a two party political system says they trust a foreign dictator that clearly and regularly has people murdered to suppress free speech, more than they trust the other party of Americans, then you know our political mindsets are broken.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

We need more parties, which in turn get us more connected to issues than being on the winning or losing side. When either side of a two party political system says they trust a foreign dictator that clearly and regularly has people murdered to suppress free speech, more than they trust the other party of Americans, then you know our political mindsets are broken.

I've read game theory (which I'm too lazy to look up right now) that shows why the American system must always default to two major parties. Parliamentary systems can and do support multiple parties.

If we want multiple parties, we would need to fundamentally change the manner in which we govern ourselves.

[larrymcg421]

I'm all for multiple parties, but not under our current electoral system where someone would be able to win 34-33-32 or a third party would be able to get 10-15% of the vote and get 0% of the seats.

[Thomkal]

Had to double-check this to make sure it wasn't in the Onion, but no the Republicans are actually suggesting to Trump that Garland, who they successfully blocked from the Supreme Court, should now be nominated to head the FBI.

McConnell backs Merrick Garland for FBI director | TheHill

edit; He has come forward since to say he is not interested.

[NobodyHere]

Is Sean Spicer next to go?

Fox News host in talks to replace Sean Spicer: report

[albionmoonlight]

The economy is doing really well.
There are no Iran-Hostage-style quagmire foreign issues going on.
Clinton was going to lose that election.

Had the GOP nominated Jeb or Rubio or Kasich, it would be sitting so pretty right now. The talk would be of gaining seats in the midterm and getting a filibuster proof margin in the Senate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Had the GOP nominated Jeb or Rubio or Kasich, it would be sitting so pretty right now. The talk would be of gaining seats in the midterm and getting a filibuster proof margin in the Senate.

To what purpose? To have someone that will accomplish nothing meaningful in office, just so a hollow victory could be claimed?

I thought the whole "but my side won" thing was a bad way of thinking.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Had to double-check this to make sure it wasn't in the Onion, but no the Republicans are actually suggesting to Trump that Garland, who they successfully blocked from the Supreme Court, should now be nominated to head the FBI.

Garland was only brought up so that the GOP could label Dem's hypocrites for not falling all over themselves to confirm him given their pledge not to support anyone until a special prosecutor was named. Plus, once he left the bench for a political appointment, they could replace him with a conservative on the appeals court and get him out of Washington completely at their leisure. Good for Garland for not wanting to be a political football twice in one year.

[RedKingGold]

WaPo: The president shat himself.
White House: The president would never shit himself.
Trump: I SHAT MYSELF ON PURPOSE

Every. Fucking. Day.

https://twitter.com/evilsharkey/stat...48377660317696

.

[Logan]

The Trump administration reportedly revealed information to Russians that CNN was asked not to report https://t.co/FPq6finPDa pic.twitter.com/mGmRMOUqgr

— The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) May 16, 2017

[digamma]

And now NYT reporting that Trump asked Comey to "shut down" the Flynn probe after Trump fired him. If only this were USC football and Pat Hayden could be waiting for the plane to land.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The economy is doing really well.
There are no Iran-Hostage-style quagmire foreign issues going on.
Clinton was going to lose that election.

Had the GOP nominated Jeb or Rubio or Kasich, it would be sitting so pretty right now. The talk would be of gaining seats in the midterm and getting a filibuster proof margin in the Senate.

And if my mom had balls she'd be my dad.

This is the GOP. The GOP is Trump and Trump is the GOP. Maybe that will change in time, but they elected Trump because they are the same.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by digamma

And now NYT reporting that Trump asked Comey to "shut down" the Flynn probe after Trump fired him. If only this were USC football and Pat Hayden could be waiting for the plane to land.

Leaks are going to come out on a daily basis. He's pissed off the FBI and intelligence agencies. The quote from LBJ on Hoover seems to fit.

"It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'd like to see Trump impeached just as much as the next guy, but I think this incident of Trump talking to the Russian is overblown

I think the issue is that other countries will be skeptical about giving us intelligence in the future. Israel clearly didn't want this passed to even our allies, let alone Russia. So if your goal is to prevent terrorist attacks as Trump has claimed, he just made it harder for his own country to do so.

The information was obviously serious enough that it sent the WH into a panic as they rushed to inform the NSA and CIA about it. And they have asked news agencies not to report on what the information was.

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Watching twitter, for some reason the Russian bots are trying to flood the trends with "Seth Rich", I guess to make it all about Hillary again.

State media here is doing the same thing. Sadly the Seth Rich story gets propped up whenever Trump needs a distraction. Feel bad for his family who has to go through this.

[Jas_lov]

They have him on obstruction of justice. Start the impeachment hearings. That seems to be where this is headed.

[Drake]

I'm buying stock in Orville Redenbacher. If the first hundred days are any indication, the next few years are going to be a glorious political entertainment television.

I mean, what I see on my (anecdotal) daily Facebook feed is "Trump does X. Trump supporters give zero fucks and find reasons to cheer about how it pisses off the boogeyman democrats of their imagination." Which appears to be about as far into the future as they can prognosticate.

And eventually, the tide is going to turn again. A Democrat is going to sit in the White House...and I think Dems are going to get tired of taking the high road and playing compromise games and go after some real sacred cows just to fuck with Republicans and their supporters. Four+ years of revenge politics where everything is on the table.

I'm down with this. I'm down with a bare-fisted political feud where everybody goes for short-term bloodletting over actual policy. Where everybody gets pissed off enough to stop pretending like we're all Americans in this together and starts actively trying to kill off the other side, whether through bar fights, pistol volleys, or congressionally approved death panels that force people who can't pay their share of the wealth distribution to abort their unborn fetuses or sell them into Mexican white slavery to pay for Mexico's share of the Wall.

I think we need this. I think we've become a country of complete dumbasses who have forgotten how fragile the social contract is and why compromise is so necessary. And I hope the corporate leaders of Facebook and Fox News and about a thousand other media outlets are the first ones up against the wall (though they won't be, because oligarchs stick together.)

[molson]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

They have him on obstruction of justice.

If Trump isn't careful, SEVERAL Republicans may express guarded concern over this.

Though it is nice that maybe there's a guy in the middle of this now who doesn't need an immunity agreement to talk about what happened.

[Drake]

Also, I've got Obama in the pool of "Most Likely Former President to Thwart His Own Assassination Attempt by Whipping Out a Concealed Glock and Executing the Motherfucker Gangsta Style".

And no, not just because he's black.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Drake

And eventually, the tide is going to turn again. A Democrat is going to sit in the White House...and I think Dems are going to get tired of taking the high road and playing compromise games and go after some real sacred cows just to fuck with Republicans and their supporters. Four+ years of revenge politics where everything is on the table.

This assumes the Dems will put forth a competent candidate and that they'll do anything more than jack themselves off when they get into power.


2008 should tell you exactly how Democrats govern when in full control.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This assumes the Dems will put forth a competent candidate and that they'll do anything more than jack themselves off when they get into power.

This is fair. The problem with building a party out of increasingly atomized interest groups and coalitions of potential victims is that all of your solid idealogues (I mean that in a good way) are going to piss somebody off.

Shit, I've got to keep a spreadsheet of non-offensive positions I'm allowed to take that's pivot tabled against the demographics of my likely audience just to hang out at the water cooler at work as it is.

Working on a college campus is tough as fuck, yo.

[Drake]

(That's facetious. I work in IT. What I do is magic. So I'm allowed to say whatever I want as long as my beard is long enough.)