COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I need a haircut but will wait 2-3 weeks to see if cases continue to decrease and if hospitals/ICU/ventilators/healthcare workers are more freed up.

My problem with Kemp is there is no communication. In my line of work, we impact a lot of people with "change". So we tell people change is coming, we tell them what the change is, why the change is happening, how it will impact them, train them for the change, measure their acceptance of the change etc. and then update & mitigate as needed.

On Sun/Mon, Kemp says we are opening up this Fri and here minimal details. But there are no real details, no planning, no training or rules yet. If people could see there was a plan, I can see it being accepted and adhered to better.

And apparently mayors in Georgia weren't told about this before he said it. Which is terrible in terms of planning. Now mayors have to figure out how to get ahead of it in 5 days - without being able to set more stringent restrictions for flash point cities.

[whomario]

The List of stuff opening in Georgia reads like he got a recommendation and his assistant forgot to copy the title "This should be opened last" and the bottom saying "bars and nightclubs".

[grdawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It’s almost as if a governor who won a rigged election isn’t qualified.

Yup and I think we are seeing how under qualified a lot of our leaders are in this country. It is really easy to be a governor of the state when you don't really have to do much and just collect a pay check, but when the shit hits the fan, are you going to step up and lead or are you going to make the problem worse with your lack of leadership. We are seeing this play out in many states.

I wonder if this will have any impact going forward if people will elect people that are qualified or it will just continue along party lines. Unfortunately, most likely nothing will change.

[Warhammer]

This is true on both sides of the aisle. Democrat and Republican leaders are the same in this regard. They are so beholden to their donors, they do not have the ability to think and lead on their own. Many of these guys are selected to be the front runner because they are photogenic and charismatic, but the ability to lead does not necessarily require either of these (although charisma does help).

Not sure if I related this here or at another forum, but a few years back, it must have been 2017, I was flying next to a Republican election consultant. He was grilling me on why I was drifting away from the party despite being conservative. I pointed out a number of issues, too long to list here, but the upshot of all this, he started discussing the candidates and how these guys act when the lights are not on them.

Essentially, these guys have been so programmed what to say, they cannot think on their feet. Its why debates are worthless today. Candidates have a list of talking points to talk to, and if they go off script, things go south in a hurry. The donors pick telegenic people they think voters can connect to. Its why the parties are so quick to elevate and then discard candidates, they are trying to find out who more people get behind so the donor's agenda can be driven forward.

It was all pretty fascinating stuff and completely changed my view of candidates.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Not sure if I related this here or at another forum

You're seeing other forums? Wow.

[Kodos]

We will not be your cuckold!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

If you want to see what they did in Taiwan to crush the curve, I found this interesting reading:
...
That is the reason that Taiwan sports were able to resume. Now, without getting political, would you see ANY of the things that Taiwan did working in the US?

I'm not sure sports being played without spectators is a good metric. With the billions of dollars on the line & small rosters there's no reason the NBA couldn't quarantine a small island or a big ranch and play games with no spectators. Not all of the players would want to self isolate with their teammates like that, and the owners don't want to do it because they'd lose a ton in start up costs and not having fans, but the logistics on that seem a lot easier than stopping countrywide spread.

[IlliniCub]

Originally Posted by grdawg

Yup and I think we are seeing how under qualified a lot of our leaders are in this country. It is really easy to be a governor of the state when you don't really have to do much and just collect a pay check, but when the shit hits the fan, are you going to step up and lead or are you going to make the problem worse with your lack of leadership. We are seeing this play out in many states.

I wonder if this will have any impact going forward if people will elect people that are qualified or it will just continue along party lines. Unfortunately, most likely nothing will change.

I really disliked our governor in Illinois until this crisis. I've really grown to respect men like Cuomo and Pritzker.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by whomario

The List of stuff opening in Georgia reads like he got a recommendation and his assistant forgot to copy the title "This should be opened last" and the bottom saying "bars and nightclubs".

Seems like a way to get people off unemployment by picking who he believes are the most expendable people in the state.

[RainMaker]

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

[Arles]

for a 368-person study, a 10% difference in results doesn't seem that significant. But I do agree that there is no evidence to support using hydroxychloroquine with or without the azithromycin for COVID-19. That point needs to made clear if people are trying to use it off the books.

[panerd]

Trump sucks and is the worst before the response comes back to him but why the love for Coumo besides his political party? His state's numbers are worse than most countries and he is on record as saying this is no different than the flu as well. Guess I just dont get the love. (Well I mean I understand the media hype but not why ordinary people love him)

[ISiddiqui]

I don't get the love for Cuomo per se and most media rankings of the best Governor responses don't include Cuomo - usually its DeWine, Newsom, Hogan, Whitmer. I think the way he talks about this stuff is just good news copy.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Trump sucks and is the worst before the response comes back to him but why the love for Coumo besides his political party? His state's numbers are worse than most countries and he is on record as saying this is no different than the flu as well. Guess I just dont get the love. (Well I mean I understand the media hype but not why ordinary people love him)

Because he talks like a grown up.

50% of Trumps problem is his inability to communicate and act like a normal person.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Because he talks like a grown up.

This. We have incredibly low standards in this country.

Inslee, DeWine, and Newsom have handled this much better but are not on TV everyday or in a media hot bed.

[Brian Swartz]

Perhaps the discussion of what governors have done well would be better placed in the Trump thread.

[Brian Swartz]

Another Tuesday spike, probably due to the weekend reporting issues as before, but if we're past the peak in terms of deaths it isn't by much yet.

[CrimsonFox]

Who wants to tell her....

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

for a 368-person study, a 10% difference in results doesn't seem that significant. But I do agree that there is no evidence to support using hydroxychloroquine with or without the azithromycin for COVID-19. That point needs to made clear if people are trying to use it off the books.

The NIH is recommending not to use it now. Seems to be a trend around the world as more data comes in.

There has been some early promising results from remdesivir from what I'm reading. And I'm sure a bunch of other treatments are being tested around the world. There is no shortage of patients. Hopefully something works.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Who wants to tell her....

Nah, looks photo-shopped to me.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Perhaps the discussion of what governors have done well would be better placed in the Trump thread.

We all fail to not go there in this thread ...

[Brian Swartz]

So an anecdotal bit of positive news. Obviously the group of people ordering from a shopping service are going to skew towards the more cautious, but so far since I started yesterday almost every order is using the 'drop-off' option, which means no physical contact at all between the shopper and the customer, just set the bags at their door and leave. On the negative side, I'm amazed at the number of other shoppers not wearing masks.

[miked]

As I stated earlier in this thread, the risks and side effects far outweigh any benefit, and you probably do not need to increase your sample size. I am currently running 2 clinical trials (not on that) and would have long been frozen by the FDA with those kids of AE and SAE reports.

[CrimsonFox]

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

On the negative side, I'm amazed at the number of other shoppers not wearing masks.

Went to Fresh Thyme Market, every worker and almost all customers wearing masks. Went to Ace Hardware, no workers, almost no customers wearing masks. Ace is sort of like 'everyday' KY, while Fresh Thyme is called "The Hippie Market" by my wife for a reason.

[RainMaker]

I would say 90% of people here are wearing masks in stores. Big mix between N95, paper, cloth, and just wrapping a scarf around their nose and mouth. People have been pretty good with distancing too.

[Edward64]

Not sure how reputable they are but a scary visual.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publi...ashes-not-like

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miked

As I stated earlier in this thread, the risks and side effects far outweigh any benefit, and you probably do not need to increase your sample size. I am currently running 2 clinical trials (not on that) and would have long been frozen by the FDA with those kids of AE and SAE reports.

So to use your expertise...

Let's say that a drug has a 100% cure rate for CV but the sample size was smaller than this trial. Would they take the chance to rush it to the field or would they still increase the sample size just to make sure? Or whatever option 3 would be?

[stevew]

Our Wal Mart has directional arrows for each aisle which are conveniently ignored by all the boomers.

[miked]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

So to use your expertise...

Let's say that a drug has a 100% cure rate for CV but the sample size was smaller than this trial. Would they take the chance to rush it to the field or would they still increase the sample size just to make sure? Or whatever option 3 would be?

Well, that initial sample size would really matter. And don't forget, this is the field they are testing it in. So if a drug were to come along and cure 90/90 patients in a reputable place, my guess is that they would expand it greatly (if they could) and get emergency use of this for a much larger trial. They may get around the placebo controlled initially due to the ongoing mortality, but a lot of things like sex, race, age, and other factors would need to be considered. Also, if a drug has already passed Phase I safety trials, it could be pushed out fast with fastracked FDA approvals for a large trial.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm sure other countries don't give a rats ass about wanting to come to the US now that we are the biggest carrier of the disease so shutting down immigration is a bit stupid

[whomario]

Originally Posted by miked

Well, that initial sample size would really matter. And don't forget, this is the field they are testing it in. So if a drug were to come along and cure 90/90 patients in a reputable place, my guess is that they would expand it greatly (if they could) and get emergency use of this for a much larger trial. They may get around the placebo controlled initially due to the ongoing mortality, but a lot of things like sex, race, age, and other factors would need to be considered. Also, if a drug has already passed Phase I safety trials, it could be pushed out fast with fastracked FDA approvals for a large trial.

Thanks for your insight

Yeah, absolutely. After all, "curing" someone is pretty hard to prove on an individual basis without context and a good sample group, especially with a still new disease.
I mean, in the french hydrochloquine study everybody in the controll group was 'cured' as well Does that mean that no medication works best ? Obviously not.

And we have already seen drugs approved way faster that other times and maybe even earlier than many are comfortable with. Both Hydrochloroquine and Remdesivir for example. Both were tested for safety, obviously. But just from my obviously layman perspective: that is propably still not equivalent to actually being safe to use here with this specific set of patients with this specific diesease. Because that's not a disease that past tests envisioned it being used for, so nobody could have tested if it is safe for patients being in the shape they are now. Just because the side effects are still considered "safe" for a Malaria or Lupus patient doesn't mean it is safe for a patient suffering from a vastly different disease.

Remdesivir presumably a bit 'closer'/being a better analogue than Hydrochlorquine.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by stevew

Our Wal Mart has directional arrows for each aisle which are conveniently ignored by all the boomers.

From my experiences shopping at Walmart pre-pandemic I'm pretty sure this isn't intentional ignoring on their part. :-)

[JPhillips]

Not that we knew it at the time, but autopsy data has pushed back the first U.S. death to Feb. 6 in the San Francisco area.

[albionmoonlight]

I am irrationally hopeful about Remdesivir.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I am irrationally hopeful about Remdesivir.

Me too. Also on Z-Pak (relatively easily available) but think that may be falling to the wayside.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Me too. Also on Z-Pak (relatively easily available) but think that may be falling to the wayside.

Well, Z-Paks were never going to be something to treat Coronavirus directly. They would be for secondary infections.

SI

[CrimsonFox]

Autopsy: Santa Clara patient died of COVID-19 on Feb. 6 — 23 days before 1st U.S. death declared - SFGate

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miked

Well, that initial sample size would really matter. And don't forget, this is the field they are testing it in. So if a drug were to come along and cure 90/90 patients in a reputable place, my guess is that they would expand it greatly (if they could) and get emergency use of this for a much larger trial. They may get around the placebo controlled initially due to the ongoing mortality, but a lot of things like sex, race, age, and other factors would need to be considered. Also, if a drug has already passed Phase I safety trials, it could be pushed out fast with fastracked FDA approvals for a large trial.

Thank you!

[whomario]

See how coronavirus can spread through a population, and how countries flatten the curve | World news | The Guardian

Very easy and comprehensible, especially if graphics work better than text for you

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by whomario

See how coronavirus can spread through a population, and how countries flatten the curve | World news | The Guardian

Very easy and comprehensible, especially if graphics work better than text for you

Good stuff. Thanks for linking to it.

[Butter]

I saw in the RANDOM thread people talking about restaurants. How are people's eating habits changing around this?

I would say we used to eat out pretty much every night. Now we are cooking 5 nights a week and getting carryout about 2. I have been getting drive-thrus for lunch about 3 days a week just for time considerations around work. We live pretty close to several drive-thrus.

The carryout for dinner is from 2 good local restaurants that we're hoping survive. The times I have gotten carryout/delivery from large chains, it has been 50% something wrong with the order. Wrong wing sauce, one time we got only half-cooked chicken breasts, one time an entire missing item. Have yet to have anything go wrong with the good local places.

That's also about the only times I've gone out other than grocery shopping. Also have found it hard to stick to a diet, but that's neither here nor there.

What about you, what are you eating nowadays?

[ISiddiqui]

We used to go out for dinner 1-2 times a week. Now we are doing takeout once a week (and every few weeks maybe an additional time). We've changed our Blue Apron meals from every 2 weeks to every week. Started ordering a Misfit Market box for veggies. And are overmaxxing our grocery budget (though it helps our brunch budget has been $0 for the last two months).

I tend to eat out for lunch every day while in the office.. so I'm saving like $50-$60 a week just on that alone. Not to mention the coffee costs.

I've also noticed that I eat too much for lunch. When you spend $10+ on lunch you tend to eat all of it. I eat a couple slices of pizza or some leftovers for lunch and I've lost like 10lbs.

[JPhillips]

It's been maybe a month since we ate out.

[Atocep]

I'm still going into work 3 days per week while the wife is furloughed. No real changes to our dinner plans as we had cut eating out for dinner down to maybe 1 time per week starting a year or so ago.

The wife is saving quite a bit by not eating out for lunch each day and not stopping at Starbucks each morning.

[cuervo72]

There was a time when we probably ate out 3-4 times a week, and ordered out a couple of times on top of that. As a family of four. That shifted a bit when my wife went to full-time a few years ago (fewer out, more takeout) and obviously changed when my son went to school. Add to that my daughter's eating habits (let's say vegetarian to save time) and we were lucky to go out once a week. Or my wife and I would go out when my daughter was doing her own thing. But we had our usual Monday order from the corner pizza place, Wawa once or twice a week, Chipotle, Domino's (can never have enough pizza!), etc.

At work at one point I'd spend maybe $10/day at the cafeteria, a little more if we went out for lunch or I doubled up and got breakfast and lunch. I started curtailing that a couple of months ago.

During the lockdown, we are pretty much down to the corner pizza place, an occasional order from the corner Mexican place (we'd like to see them stay in business), and a lot of cooking at home. Some of that's cheap ($1 pasta, $1 sauce, $2-$3 garlic toast), some not (Honeybaked ham AND turkey for Easter...). Gotta make more now that the boy is home, but we did get some $700 or so back in meal plan refunds. Overall, we are bound to be spending less. Probably a lot less.

[JPhillips]

Las Vegas mayor is offering her city up as a control group to see what happens when everything is open.

[albionmoonlight]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...s-blood-clots/

[GoldenEagle]

UofL breakthrough technology shows promise fighting novel coronavirus | UofL News

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Las Vegas mayor is offering her city up as a control group to see what happens when everything is open.

She is insane

Amazing what happens when the Mayor of a major city is the wife of a mob lawyer. If we learn nothing else from this crisis it's elections have consequences.

Las Vegas Mayor offers city as "control group", "we offer to be a control group" to see how many people die without social distancing. pic.twitter.com/NESE2hActE

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) April 22, 2020