Super Bowl XLIV

[Shkspr]

With the Super Bowl being in Dallas next year, I coud totally see somebody like Garth Brooks, Toby Keith, or Kenny Chesney headlining.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

American Idiot has sold 14 million copies. Sure fire sign of just hanging around.

AI released on September 21, 2004

That 5 1/2 years ago, long time between now & then.

Meanwhile their 2009 release managed to hit single gold status, with one #1 US (rock) single followed by a #10 & a third single that didn't crack the top 25.

And I'm sitting here in a college town with only one rock station (in 2009) that I was a solid P1 listener to and don't recall ever hearing anything from the album played here at all, not even Know Your Enemy.

The success they had with Idiot, regardless of what I thought of the album or them, was damned impressive. The follow up? A hell of a lot less so. "Hanging on" might be a little strong, but not by any incredible amount.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

With the Super Bowl being in Dallas next year, I coud totally see somebody like Garth Brooks, Toby Keith, or Kenny Chesney headlining.

Those guys are way to modern. I expect to see Waylin Jennings or ronnie Milsap. Maybe the Oak Ridge Boys

[cuervo72]

"Hanging around" in the sense that yes, Brett Farve is still hanging around (and doing "ok"). My point is that they ARE still around. How many popular bands from the 90s can you even say that for? I didn't mean to diminish Green Day's accomplishments (though no, they aren't particularly on my musical radar), just more of a comment on the lasting power of most 90s bands.

JFC - can you fucks parse things more literally and not be offended any time your personal likes aren't genuflected to?

[DaddyTorgo]

Gold/Platinum and #1 in 14 different countries isn't "hanging around" - whether they're on your musical radar or not

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you're far from the target demographic for Green Day, so I'm not surprised.

But I'm closer to the SB demographics than their audience (so I'm kind of relevant to the conversation here).

Shit, even my father (who is probably what...10 years old than you?) knows that.

Depends on how old he was when you were born I guess. I don't miss being old enough (43 in April) to be your dad by a huge margin really.

and before i heard they were going to perform at the halftime show i couldn't have told you that all the members of The Who were still alive, let alone could pick up their instruments without help, so I think they're the epitome of "hanging around" by that definition

I think that's a totally different usage of "hanging around" though. I wouldn't object to that description of The Who frankly, but I recall Townshend's comment after they reappeared following their first retirement (I guess that'd be 1988) to the effect that "we discovered it was far better to be a rich old rock star than a poor old rock star". I remember hearing the quote from a presser at the time & it's stuck with me for all these years as one of the most honest things I've ever heard from a celebrity.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The success they had with Idiot, regardless of what I thought of the album or them, was damned impressive. The follow up? A hell of a lot less so. "Hanging on" might be a little strong, but not by any incredible amount.

To say they are hanging on or remotely close is a statement of epic idiotic proportions. They are one of the most successful bands of this decade. The follow up to American Idiot has been a monster success, plus there is a Broadway show about to debut based on there music. They may not be popular in your corner of the world, but they are about as popular as it comes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Gold/Platinum and #1 in 14 different countries isn't "hanging around" - whether they're on your musical radar or not

Only 1 of those countries is particularly relevant to my perception (ever look at the #1 lists from other countries?).

And it was preceded on the US Album chart by Epiphany by Chrisette Michele.

Sorry but let's be honest here, how many people do you think wouldn't respond "Who the fuck is that"?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

"Hanging around" in the sense that yes, Brett Farve is still hanging around (and doing "ok"). My point is that they ARE still around. How many popular bands from the 90s can you even say that for? I didn't mean to diminish Green Day's accomplishments (though no, they aren't particularly on my musical radar), just more of a comment on the lasting power of most 90s bands.

JFC - can you fucks parse things more literally and not be offended any time your personal likes aren't genuflected to?

Not sure what JFC means or if it is directed at me, but the term "hanging around" conotates something past its prime clinging to glory. And I a certainly not offended, people have personal tastes and I respect that.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

JFC - can you fucks parse things more literally and not be offended any time your personal likes aren't genuflected to?

Isn't this how we got here in the first place? Everyone was bitching about The Who and Super Bowl halftime shows, in general. But it's not like anyone here doesn't know who any of the post-Janet Jackson Super Bowl halftime artists are even if they've viewed as old and out of touch.

SI

[Lathum]

WHAT THE HELL DOES JFC MEAN!!!!!!

[cuervo72]

Jersey Fried Chicken.

[sabotai]

Jesus Fucking Christ

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Jersey Fried Chicken.

Is that you Snookie?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Is that you Snookie?

Isn't Saldana your Snickers?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

To say they are hanging on or remotely close is a statement of epic idiotic proportions. They are one of the most successful bands of this decade.

That's two different statements, and they aren't mutually exclusive.

The follow up to American Idiot has been a monster success

By what fucking standard? They got outsold by Andrea Bocelli for God's sake. And by at least 9 other albums as well (sorry, I can't find a 2009 sales list that goes down past 10 yet).

Idiot = monster success, no reasonable argument against that as far as I can see. But when you go from selling 5 million copies to selling less than a million, that's not the direction you really want to be going and trying to claim that's "monster success" when it happens is either insane or idiotic.

They may not be popular in your corner of the world, but they are about as popular as it comes.

Apparently "my corner of the world" includes the United States in 2009, your mileage my vary on whatever planet you're on.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But I'm closer to the SB demographics than their audience (so I'm kind of relevant to the conversation here).



Depends on how old he was when you were born I guess. I don't miss being old enough (43 in April) to be your dad by a huge margin really.



I think that's a totally different usage of "hanging around" though. I wouldn't object to that description of The Who frankly, but I recall Townshend's comment after they reappeared following their first retirement (I guess that'd be 1988) to the effect that "we discovered it was far better to be a rich old rock star than a poor old rock star". I remember hearing the quote from a presser at the time & it's stuck with me for all these years as one of the most honest things I've ever heard from a celebrity.

43 in April? Shit...that's it? My dad is...15 years older than you and he is quite aware that Green Day is still active and such.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's two different statements, and they aren't mutually exclusive.



By what fucking standard? They got outsold by Andrea Bocelli for God's sake. And by at least 9 other albums as well (sorry, I can't find a 2009 sales list that goes down past 10 yet).

Idiot = monster success, no reasonable argument against that as far as I can see. But when you go from selling 5 million copies to selling less than a million, that's not the direction you really want to be going and trying to claim that's "monster success" when it happens is either insane or idiotic.



Apparently "my corner of the world" includes the United States in 2009, your mileage my vary on whatever planet you're on.

Yeah, you know I think that everyone may be partially right here.

Green Day may well have been one of the most successful "rock" bands of 2009. The problem is...the genre is becoming a niche.

Here’s a look at the final Top Ten sellers during the calendar year of 2009, according to Neilsen/SoundScan. (Total sales may well be higher, if the album came out before ’09).

1) “Fearless” Taylor Swift 3,216,000
2) “I Dreamed A Dream” Susan Boyle 3,103,000
3) “Number Ones” Michael Jackson 2,355,000
4) “Fame” Lady Gaga 2,237,000
5) “My Christmas” Andrea Bocelli 2,207,000
6) “Hannah Movie Soundtrack” Hanna Montana 1,823,000
7) “The E.N.D.” Black Eyed Peas 1,786,000
8) “Relapse” Enimen 1,735,000
9) “Blueprint 3” Jay-Z 1,514,000
10) “Only By the Night” Kings of Leon 1,397,000

Read more: Taylor Swift had the top-selling album of 2009, beating Susan Boyle, Michael Jackson

Taylor Swift? Susan Boyle? Andrea Bocelli? Hanna Montana???

[Lathum]

Obviously playing live on the Grammys this year is also a signal of epic failure/

[Lathum]

dola- I think Cuervo makes a great point, probably not the band but the genre. JIMG must be a Taylor Swift fan.

[Cringer]

Eh, Green Day took longer then they ever have before to put out 21st Century Breakdown, they did their little "side project" band before that, they aren't exactly breaking down the door to do another album any quicker then they did before. Billy Joe is almost 40. I have no problem hearing them referred to as a band "hanging around." It's been 20 years, they aren't exactly a fresh act any more.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

43 in April? Shit...that's it? My dad is...15 years older than you and he is quite aware that Green Day is still active and such.

{shrug} I guess I just don't know how he does it then.

Seriously, I'm probably more in touch with current Rock (differentiated from Pop) acts than anyone over 40 I know that isn't in the business.

And that's definitely not distinguished by just applying to bands I like otherwise I wouldn't know the existence of, say, Panic at the Disco, The Plain White Tees, or The White Stripes or the horrible new Alice In Chains single.

And let's be clear, I don't have anything special against Green Day any moreso than dozens of other bands that don't trip my trigger. Hell just look up the thread where I even mention that I thought they had a better chance than most of their contemporaries to be a SB halftime act at some point.

But my impression - based not only on the lack of airplay locally last year but also from a factual decline in sales for the new album that exceeds the overall decline in sales in the industry - is that they're still living off of Idiot (which had enough success to allow them to do so) as opposed to being an act that's growing or even sustaining their appeal today.

[Young Drachma]

Wait, are people defending Green Day in a Super Bowl thread?

I'm going to go bump that FOFC is dead thread.

[DaddyTorgo]

are Plain White Tees really "rock?"

"Rock" is so fragmented these days as a genre.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Maybe?

Thing is, I'd imagine there are more people aged 35+ watching the game than under 35. And if you're older than 35, you probably know The Who.* Going forward (as these guys die off), what bands are going to have that kind of cross-generational pull? The timeframe the bands covered will eventually shift, but who comes out of the 80s? 90s? 00s?

I wonder (and this is probably a question for Jon, once he gets past his NO rage), who should they go for here demographically? Are young kids even watching? If they are, are they sticking around for half-time anyway? Is there even a genre of music that could connect with enough of the audience? Seems like musical interests are more diverse (segmented) these days.



* my son heard one of the songs, recognized it, then said "THESE GUYS did that?"

Well recall the "geezer rock" craze at Halftime shows happened directly after the whole 'wardrobe malfunction' thing. It was a massive overreaction by the NFL. The question is if they are going to go younger and risk some sort of mass controversy thing again. One thing about the NFL is that it is very conservative.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Wait, are people defending Green Day in a Super Bowl thread?

I'm going to go bump that FOFC is dead thread.

I a am monster Green Day fan, have always been. I was just having an enjoyable conversation about their relevance. I probably overvalue them, but they would ba an awesome halftime show.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I a am monster Green Day fan, have always been. I was just having an enjoyable conversation about their relevance. I probably overvalue them, but they would ba an awesome halftime show.

ditto

[Young Drachma]

That performance they did at that Saints game a bunch of years ago seemed to be their Super Bowl audition. I'm sure they'll get their chance before long.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

are Plain White Tees really "rock?"

"Rock" is so fragmented these days as a genre.

No, they once were in the Chicagoland area. Now they are just pop.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Green Day may well have been one of the most successful "rock" bands of 2009. The problem is...the genre is becoming a niche.

True enough but how far down the list do we go before we run out of "most successful of 2009"?

We know that the latest Green Day album sold between 500k & 1m copies, because they've got their Gold certification but not their platinum.

Here's the (arguably?) rock Platinum albums certified in 2009, with the caveat that I'm not going to go hunt release dates for every album so some of these may have been prior releases and the font on the RIAA list is so small that I could easily miss something. I've eliminated the ones that were easy to spot (like Avenged Sevenfold going platinum for a 2005 release)

Guns & Roses - Chinese Democracy
Kings of Leon - Only By the Night
Dave Matthews Band - Big Whiskey ...
Nickelback - Dark Horse (2x Platinum)
U2 - No Line On the Horizon

In the same sales tier as the Green Day album 2009 had
Chickenfoot - Chickenfoot
Saving Abel - Saving Abel (released Mar 08, certified Mar 09)
Shinedown - Sound of Madness (release Jun 08, certified May 09)
Theory of a Deadman - Scars & Souvenirs (released Apr 08, cert. May 09)

So on their past year or so do we really want to argue that Saving Abel = Green Day? I'm not making that argument here or anywhere else (although I'd personally rather hear SA's guitar techs do a soundcheck than listen to GD on their best day).

I'm just saying that GD's overall position in the rock hierarchy is definitely based on their enormous hit album from half a decade back rather than anything they've done lately and maybe going further to suggest that they've peaked and it's downhill all the way from here (whether that's a slow or fast descent remains to be seen).

[Karlifornia]

LOL a Super Bowl thread devolving into a vivisection of last years most popular rock albums. I love the internet!

Oh, and Jon, thanks for making rooting for the Saints an easy decision for me.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Who would have predicted that after getting his team up 10-0 in teh first, Peyton Manning's offense would only get one more TD for the entire rest of the game?

Nostradamus.

[RainMaker]

I don't know about record sales for Green Day and whoever, but I do know The Who sucked. One of the coolest stages and light shows I've ever seen though.

I'm calling for Bon Jovi next year.

[Matthean]

I wouldn't consider a band that had far less sales one album after their biggest seller(assuming) to be "hanging around." All the more so when the vast majority of reviews considered it to be a better album. To me, hanging around is still being active well past your peak point and not really putting out much of anything noteworthy. U2 is far closer to doing this than most people would admit. Kiss has done it for ages and ages.

[EagleFan]

Please tell me that was just a bad dream and the f#$*ing Saints didn't win the Super Bowl...

Now I have to deal with an annoying freaking Saints fan at work. If I hear "who dat" one more time I may begin to projectile vomit.

Sorry, I probably wouldn't be as annoyed but the guy is a jackass in general and this just maginifies it. (funny story about him is that we had a recent fund raising event and part of it was a 50/50 raffle; the entire time leading up to it he kept talking about how the winner should donate their winnings and if not it would just show that person was a greedy jackass; he won and didn't donate the winnings)

[Dutch]

I thought this Super Bowl was boring. I almost felt like I was watching Pro Bowl play calling....

In any event, I was rooting for the Saints and I guess I'm happy they won, but I didn't cheer when Who Dat ran it back for a TD. I wanted a fun Super Bowl more than I wanted either of these two teams to win, I suppose.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But my impression - based not only on the lack of airplay locally last year but also from a factual decline in sales for the new album that exceeds the overall decline in sales in the industry - is that they're still living off of Idiot (which had enough success to allow them to do so) as opposed to being an act that's growing or even sustaining their appeal today.

I love that you're basing your argument off "album" sales. Who the hell buys an entire album nowadays (other than from your old fart generation). It's all about the single downloads, my friend.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I love that you're basing your argument off "album" sales. Who the hell buys an entire album nowadays (other than from your old fart generation). It's all about the single downloads, my friend.

Where they're nowhere to be found in the top 10 either.

[Qwikshot]

I thought it was an exciting well played, well officiated game.
It never felt like a blowout.
The commercials were so-so and for once the economy has caused a tapering off bad or pointless. Let's face it, commercials are great when the game is a blow out or flat out boring but this was a real contest.
Seeing Pete Townsend's flabby gut pop out a few times from excessive windmilling, not so great. I think they missed a great chance to have CSI pop up during the medley of their shows songs. Just to see David Caruso put on his shades during daltrey's "YEAaaaah" would have been bliss.
Seem like the game ended pretty early too which is nice for a guy like me who has to wake at 4:30 AM.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Where they're nowhere to be found in the top 10 either.

Nice try. 21 Guns is listed at #41 in overall single song downloads on ITunes. Not bad for a "album" which was released in May 2009.

Using the groups you used for your argument, here's where there highest single-song ITunes download ranking is:

Guns & Roses - Chinese Democracy -- No song listed in Top 200
Kings of Leon - Only By the Night -- #44 (Use Somebody)
Dave Matthews Band - Big Whiskey ... -- #60 (You and Me)
Nickelback - Dark Horse (2x Platinum) -- #81 (Never Gonna Be Alone)
U2 - No Line On the Horizon -- No song listed in Top 200

Only goes to show that old fogies like you are the only ones who care about overall "album" sales.

[Toddzilla]

IMO there was no excuse not to have Lady Gaga performing at halftime. Regardless of what you think about her and her music, it would have been the most watched halftime show in ages.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I thought it was an exciting well played, well officiated game.
It never felt like a blowout.

I agree!

It makes the games so much better when they keep the yellow flags in their pocket. Their were a couple penalties they could have called but when you call a game a certain way no one really complains.

When you start calling every borderline play a penalty you leave yourself open for criticism.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Nice try. 21 Guns is listed at #41 in overall single song downloads on ITunes. Not bad for a "album" which was released in May 2009.

Using the groups you used for your argument, here's where there highest single-song ITunes download ranking is:

Guns & Roses - Chinese Democracy -- No song listed in Top 200
Kings of Leon - Only By the Night -- #44 (Use Somebody)
Dave Matthews Band - Big Whiskey ... -- #60 (You and Me)
Nickelback - Dark Horse (2x Platinum) -- #81 (Never Gonna Be Alone)
U2 - No Line On the Horizon -- No song listed in Top 200

Only goes to show that old fogies like you are the only ones who care about overall "album" sales.

{scratches head} So somehow single songs are hallmark for success for sales now? Takes a hell of a lot of .99 singles to equal $10 to $15 "album" sales.

And we're talking about for the year, not for the past week or two which seems to be iTunes memory length.

edit to add: And here's another news flash for you skippy, it's "old fogies" like me who control the Super Bowl, its halftime show, and the media buys that drive the whole thing. Not punk ass kids who aren't even as old as concert t-shirts in my closet. Call me when you're relevant.

[Logan]

This is the least surprising thread ever.

[Qwikshot]

Jon does have a point about old fogies, I'm endorsing Manfred Mann for the next halftime show because when it comes to the Superbowl, it's not about the game, or the players, or the strategy or the history...it's about the halftime show and commercials.

Perhaps the old fogies decided that the halftime show should go back to what it should be, an irrelevant time when people watching the game can grab a bite to eat or hit the bathroom, that's just me. Commercials are amusing and a neccesary evil watching any game or show but the halftime shows relevance is me barely watching it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Thing is, I'd imagine there are more people aged 35+ watching the game than under 35. ... I wonder (and this is probably a question for Jon, once he gets past his NO rage), who should they go for here demographically? Are young kids even watching? If they are, are they sticking around for half-time anyway?

A little more anecdotal on this, as I've got the Atlanta overnights from the game but haven't seen the nationals yet.


Ratings for Women 18-34 .. 33.5 total average, 35.8 rating 8p-10p
Rating for Men 18-34 ... 41.1 total average, 42.9 rating 8p-10p
Rating for Men 25-54 ... 49.8 total average, 53.1 rating 8p-10p
Rating for Women 35-54 ... 38.7 total average, 43.0 rating 8p-10p
Ratings for Women 35+ ... 41.3 total average, 43.7 rating 8p-10p

Basically middle-aged women were more likely to be watching the game than young men.

I mention the 8p-10p numbers because there's a noticeable uptick around that point. Another interesting little thing I noticed in the local numbers was that somewhere between 1/3rd and 1/4th of all Households Using Television (HUT) between 630p-10p were watching something on cable

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Commercials are amusing and a neccesary evil watching any game or show but the halftime shows relevance is me barely watching it.

+1

I just love how people get their panties in a wad over a halftime show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Jon does have a point about old fogies, I'm endorsing Manfred Mann for the next halftime show because when it comes to the Superbowl, it's not about the game, or the players, or the strategy or the history...it's about the halftime show and commercials.

Another little tidbit from the Atlanta overnights, ratings for halftime were anywhere from 2 to 5 points higher (depending on the demo) than they were for the first hour of the game. About 2 points lower than the latter portion of the 2nd quarter but consistently higher than the first quarter.

And among P18-34 the 815p-830p block (end of haltime & start of Q3) actually did a higher number (39.7) than the final 15 real-time minutes of the game (starting roughly right around the pick six)

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Another little tidbit from the Atlanta overnights, ratings for halftime were anywhere from 2 to 5 points higher (depending on the demo) than they were for the first hour of the game. About 2 points lower than the latter portion of the 2nd quarter but consistently higher than the first quarter.

And among P18-34 the 815p-830p block (end of haltime & start of Q3) actually did a higher number (39.7) than the final 15 real-time minutes of the game (starting roughly right around the pick six)

I could only surmise Atlantans were hungry for 1/2 of the Who. Seriously I envisioned David Caruso kneeling on that eyeball stage and then standing up and looking over at the bassist and drummer before dryly remarking ,"Looks like some members of the band won't be around for the encore." Followed by Daultry's weak "Yee-aaah!". It was then I decided to get some snacks and beer.

[whomario]

all kind of in a blur for me still (game went on until after 4 am here in europe, had to go to work at 7 and just read a book instead of trying to sleep), but didn´t Brees start out at 5-10 or 6-12 passing before ending up 32-39 ? In any case, i can´t really remember more than 2 misses after the first quarter.
Pretty amazing game and season for him

Pretty good game, even i as a less-than-knowledgeable guy could see it was very well executed on both sides and a lot of things done right. Maybe too many, kind of lacked a bit of an "Oh" factor that comes from mistakes.