2007-2008 NBA Regular Season Thread

[stevew]

Dola, I wouldn't trade Devin Harris straight up for Kidd, let alone throw in all that other shit and first rounders. Harris is 11 years younger, and is turning into a bigtime player. Kidd can't shoot.

[Oilers9911]

With any luck this means Kidd won't play for the Nets tonight against the Raptors Kidd is a hell of a player, Dallas is definitely going out to win it this year and if they don't they could be in trouble.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dola, I wouldn't trade Devin Harris straight up for Kidd, let alone throw in all that other shit and first rounders. Harris is 11 years younger, and is turning into a bigtime player. Kidd can't shoot.

Agree 100%, Kidd is in a sharp decline phase. He's shooting 36% from the field, his turnovers are up, and he's no longer a plus defender. Harris, on the other hand, is shooting 48% from the field, 36% on threes, and is a plus defender. They're adding passing and rebounding, but I'm not sure that offsets what they lose in scoring and defense.

This is a big risk by Dallas and seems to be a major panic move. Swapping Kidd for Harris is as big of a philosophy change for Dallas as adding Shaq is for Phoenix. They're an isolation team that looks to get Dirk and Josh Howard in 1 on 1 situations. For them to use Kidd to his full potential they're going to have to run the fastbreak more and I don't think they have the personel to make their offense more effective playing that way.

[MikeVic]

Man, Dallas got Kidd AND Dwight Howard. Not a bad team with Nowitski and Josh Howard.

[korme]

I'm just going to go ahead and applaude all these teams shaking up the league. It's great for the sport.

[korme]

Dallas is getting Stackhouse back, that's ridiculous.

[Arles]

Solid move for both sides. Like others have said, it's nice long term deal for NJ - but it adds another quality guy to the Mavs for this season. From a Suns standpoint, Harris and Diop were two of the biggest thorns in Phoenix's side - so I am not too upset to see them go.

[Groundhog]

So, does Dampier play 48 mins a night now?

[MrBug708]

The Gasol trade is singlehandedly destroying the West...

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Dallas is getting Stackhouse back, that's ridiculous.

But he's gotta sit out 30 days before he can officially sign, right?

Man...maybe I should just turn on the radio to find out exactly what's going on.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The Gasol trade is singlehandedly destroying the West...

Yup. That's two teams now that have (IMO, at least) destroyed their chances so far. All we need now is the Spurs to panic after their results of the last couple of weeks and trade Tony Parker for Dikembe Mutombo.

[Groundhog]

dola

So yeah, basically that Lakers trade was a 6 team trade, effectively.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Man, Dallas got Kidd AND Dwight Howard. Not a bad team with Nowitski and Josh Howard.

They didn't get Dwight howard. What are you talking about?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

They didn't get Dwight howard. What are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Atocep

Agree 100%, Kidd is in a sharp decline phase. He's shooting 36% from the field, his turnovers are up, and he's no longer a plus defender. Harris, on the other hand, is shooting 48% from the field, 36% on threes, and is a plus defender. They're adding passing and rebounding, but I'm not sure that offsets what they lose in scoring and defense.

This is a big risk by Dallas and seems to be a major panic move. Swapping Kidd for Harris is as big of a philosophy change for Dallas as adding Shaq is for Phoenix. They're an isolation team that looks to get Dirk and Dwight Howard in 1 on 1 situations. For them to use Kidd to his full potential they're going to have to run the fastbreak more and I don't think they have the personel to make their offense more effective playing that way.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

They didn't get Dwight howard. What are you talking about?

I had dwight howard in my post rather than Josh Howard. Fixed.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

They didn't get Dwight howard. What are you talking about?

Yeah, when I saw that I had a WTF moment as well.

Though Stan Van Gundy did rip in to him (deservedly so, as well) pretty good after the Cavs game.

[MrBug708]

I dont think there is any player worth trading Howard for. You could make a case for Lebron, but even that is a stretch

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Tony Parker for Dikembe Mutombo.

As annoying as I find TP, I'll approve of that trade...

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont think there is any player worth trading Howard for. You could make a case for Lebron, but even that is a stretch

Not without involving three or four teams.

[Arles]

Simmons actually wrote a pretty good article about the Suns trade:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3243576

It's interesting in that the day or two after the deal, about 70% of the comments were negative. Now, it looks like most people are around 50-50 on the Shaq deal. I think as time goes on, people are starting to realize that there was virtually no chance the Suns were going to win the champ with their current roster.

So, with a window 2 years max, why is it "a risk" to bring in someone who could put you over the edge as opposed to sticking with Marion, losing in the 2nd round and then seeing him walk/traded after the season?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Arles

Simmons actually wrote a pretty good article about the Suns trade:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3243576

It's interesting in that the day or two after the deal, about 70% of the comments were negative. Now, it looks like most people are around 50-50 on the Shaq deal. I think as time goes on, people are starting to realize that there was virtually no chance the Suns were going to win the champ with their current roster.

So, with a window 2 years max, why is it "a risk" to bring in someone who could put you over the edge as opposed to sticking with Marion, losing in the 2nd round and then seeing him walk/traded after the season?

Shaq's window was two years when the Lakers traded him. He won a title for them

[mattlanta]

I think the Atlanta Hawks have the worst offensive gameplan in NBA history. We need a veteran point guard so bad, that I wish Woodson would just put Acie Law in instead of putting in Anthony Johnson because at least Law will get some experience as he gets more minutes.

I want to know who you guys think deserves the Rookie of the Year nomination? I believe it is Horford considering he's been playing out of position the whole year at center while still almost averaging a double-double. Last night against Rasheed, he had 12 points with 16 rebounds. That's amazing. Although I believe Horford deserves it, I think Kevin Durant will win it.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Libid21

I think the Atlanta Hawks have the worst offensive gameplan in NBA history. We need a veteran point guard so bad, that I wish Woodson would just put Acie Law in instead of putting in Anthony Johnson because at least Law will get some experience as he gets more minutes.

I want to know who you guys think deserves the Rookie of the Year nomination? I believe it is Horford considering he's been playing out of position the whole year at center while still almost averaging a double-double. Last night against Rasheed, he had 12 points with 16 rebounds. That's amazing. Although I believe Horford deserves it, I think Kevin Durant will win it.

Ever since Law came back from his injury, it seems every Hawks boxscore I look at has him shooting zero-for-something.

Hortford definately deserves ROY. Durant has had some nice games, but he's just way too inconsistent, and way too one-dimensional at this point for my liking. There's been a lot to like about Thornton too.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Libid21

I think the Atlanta Hawks have the worst offensive gameplan in NBA history. We need a veteran point guard so bad, that I wish Woodson would just put Acie Law in instead of putting in Anthony Johnson because at least Law will get some experience as he gets more minutes.

I want to know who you guys think deserves the Rookie of the Year nomination? I believe it is Horford considering he's been playing out of position the whole year at center while still almost averaging a double-double. Last night against Rasheed, he had 12 points with 16 rebounds. That's amazing. Although I believe Horford deserves it, I think Kevin Durant will win it.

IMO, it should go to Horford. He's been the better player this year and one dimensional perimeter players are a dime a dozen. Thaddeus Young won't win it, but he's been playing some great basketball as of late, as has Al Thorton. With that said, I'll be surprised if Durant doesn't get it.

This has been a pretty disappointing class as far as first year production is concerned. Still a lot of guys with upside, but I don't think this draft will end up being as good as some people thought it might be.

[MrBug708]

Who does Kidd play for in the all star game?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This has been a pretty disappointing class as far as first year production is concerned. Still a lot of guys with upside, but I don't think this draft will end up being as good as some people thought it might be.

Looking back, the guys I expected to be really good out of this class were: Oden, Durant, Horford, Brandan Wright, Jason Smith, and to a lesser extent Jared Dudley, Nick Fazekas, and Glen Davis.

Out of these guys, it's too soon to tell with Wright and Smith, Fazekas has barely hit the court and went later in the draft than I expected, and Davis+Dudley have done well. I'm less sold on Durant now than I was before, and we'll have to see how Oden bounces back, but really, it's only Horford who has come in and played as well as I expected.

The guys who I had serious doubts about were Conley, Jianlian, Noah, Thornton, Sean Williams (big time), and Crittenton. Basically all these guys, with the exception of Crittenton have played better than I expected. Jianlian looked TERRIBLE pre-season, and he's still streaky as hell, but he has some game, while Noah has gotten better each game and is giving the Bulls what Ben Wallace should have been giving them. I thought Sean Williams was the worst pick of the first round back on draft day, and he's proven me wrong.

Early impression is that this draft wasn't nearly as strong as I expected it to be. It's pretty deep in so far as rotation players are concerned, but I don't know that it has as many big time guys as I expected. A lot will depend on how Oden ends up doing. If he comes back 100% I still think he can be an amazingly dominant big man, and that will make this draft look better than it does right now.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Who does Kidd play for in the all star game?

You play for the team you were voted in to.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

Simmons actually wrote a pretty good article about the Suns trade:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3243576

It's interesting in that the day or two after the deal, about 70% of the comments were negative. Now, it looks like most people are around 50-50 on the Shaq deal. I think as time goes on, people are starting to realize that there was virtually no chance the Suns were going to win the champ with their current roster.

So, with a window 2 years max, why is it "a risk" to bring in someone who could put you over the edge as opposed to sticking with Marion, losing in the 2nd round and then seeing him walk/traded after the season?

You're right, the Suns had no chance with their old roster. And nothing's changed.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Looking back, the guys I expected to be really good out of this class were: Oden, Durant, Horford, Brandan Wright, Jason Smith, and to a lesser extent Jared Dudley, Nick Fazekas, and Glen Davis.

Out of these guys, it's too soon to tell with Wright and Smith, Fazekas has barely hit the court and went later in the draft than I expected, and Davis+Dudley have done well. I'm less sold on Durant now than I was before, and we'll have to see how Oden bounces back, but really, it's only Horford who has come in and played as well as I expected.

The guys who I had serious doubts about were Conley, Jianlian, Noah, Thornton, Sean Williams (big time), and Crittenton. Basically all these guys, with the exception of Crittenton have played better than I expected. Jianlian looked TERRIBLE pre-season, and he's still streaky as hell, but he has some game, while Noah has gotten better each game and is giving the Bulls what Ben Wallace should have been giving them. I thought Sean Williams was the worst pick of the first round back on draft day, and he's proven me wrong.

Early impression is that this draft wasn't nearly as strong as I expected it to be. It's pretty deep in so far as rotation players are concerned, but I don't know that it has as many big time guys as I expected. A lot will depend on how Oden ends up doing. If he comes back 100% I still think he can be an amazingly dominant big man, and that will make this draft look better than it does right now.

Curious, but why did you doubt Thornton? The second he was drafted I knew the Clips got a solid player. In fact, I would have been stunned if he didn't do much this year, and surprised if he developed a ton more. The book on him was that at his age, he was already about as good as he was going to get, but he would come in fairly polished.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Libid21

I think the Atlanta Hawks have the worst offensive gameplan in NBA history. We need a veteran point guard so bad, that I wish Woodson would just put Acie Law in instead of putting in Anthony Johnson because at least Law will get some experience as he gets more minutes.

I want to know who you guys think deserves the Rookie of the Year nomination? I believe it is Horford considering he's been playing out of position the whole year at center while still almost averaging a double-double. Last night against Rasheed, he had 12 points with 16 rebounds. That's amazing. Although I believe Horford deserves it, I think Kevin Durant will win it.

Well, since Rasheed isn't really a great defensive player or rebounder and looks to shift to the outside, I'm not really surprised Horford put up those numbers. Actually sounds about right for what he should do against Rasheed. Now tell me how many points Rasheed scored, and then I'll tell you if I am surprised at Horford's performance.

All that said, yeah, Horford's got a good shot at the ROY.

[stevew]

So, if the Heat really want to, they can probably get both Eddy Curry and Mike Miller before the deadline with the expiring contracts they have and maybe a few of the younger players(cook, dorrell wright).

Going into next season they could easily have a lineup of

Wade
Miller
Marion
Haslem
Curry

With a bench rotation of a top 5 pick this year, whatever they sign with their MLE, Marcus Banks, and Mark Blount.

That'd put them in contention as soon as next year.

They absolutely need to make a couple more moves, and get rid of Jason Williams, Ricky Davis and Zo's expiring deals. Unless you think that Arenas is going to sign with you during the offseason or something and plan to let Marion expire.

[Groundhog]

I didn't know much about Thornton in college so my whole opinion on him up to the draft was based on articles from sport websites, and most of them were negative - or at least, most of the ones I happened to come across, anyhow. I can't remember specifics, but it made him sound risky to me. I'd lumped both Thornton and Thaddeus Young in to the same category as risky long guys who lack a true NBA position.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Who does Kidd play for in the all star game?

It's never happened before. They think that Stern will add him to the West team and let the East pick a 13th player, too, in addition to the one to replace him.

I read about this the other day. But it was all speculation by somebody.

There is no official NBA policy on it. It almost happened last year, but Iverson got dealt before voting was over, so they made him a Western all-star. If Kidd doesn't play a game in the West before he gets dealt, then he'd have to play on the East team as usual. It's just the All-Star game anyway.

Here's what the NHL did in '03 when it happened there, though this wouldn't happen in the NBA:

The Florida Panthers were the host team of the all-star game. 3 days before the game, they traded their only all-star representative Sandis Ozolinsh to Anaheim (A Western Conference team). Ozolinsh went to the skills competition wearing a generic jersey, not his team jersey like all the other players. He still played on the Eastern team in the all-star game, but was introduced as a Anaheim Mighty Duck.

[rkmsuf]

Devin Harris. What is the fascination with this guy. He obviously is a project at best.

You want the young average guy...Nets you got him.

[Groundhog]

Is he still even a project anymore? He's been in the league for awhile now and has shown me three things; He can run really fast, he can jump really high, and he shouldn't be shooting jumpshots.

[mattlanta]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Ever since Law came back from his injury, it seems every Hawks boxscore I look at has him shooting zero-for-something.

Hortford definately deserves ROY. Durant has had some nice games, but he's just way too inconsistent, and way too one-dimensional at this point for my liking. There's been a lot to like about Thornton too.

Acie Law is having a magnificent game tonight, but then again, it is against Charlotte...

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Devin Harris. What is the fascination with this guy. He obviously is a project at best.

You want the young average guy...Nets you got him.

They might move him out of the point. Or try to deal him later for someone else. I think they're high on Marcus Williams.

[stevew]

wtf, Devean George will not accept a trading, right now the deal is off?

I think the Mavs can always sign and trade Keith Van Horn, if they need to make a deal work. Although they were thinking of using him in another deal I believe.

[MikeVic]

I'm watching the Raps' game, and they're saying Devean George has a NO TRADE CLAUSE!! And he's blocking the trade?? HHahahaha.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Now tell me how many points Rasheed scored, and then I'll tell you if I am surprised at Horford's performance.

21 pts, 3 reb, 5 steals, in 37 minutes before fouling out with 0:14 left.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Dola ... who in their right mind would give Devean George a no-trade clause?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Dola ... who in their right mind would give Devean George a no-trade clause?

That's what the Raps' commentators were saying too. How many people in the league have a no trade clause, and George is one of them?

[Groundhog]

Why wouldn't he accept the trade? He figures to see more time in NJ I would think.

[Groundhog]

dola

but yeah, better Q is why does he even have the clause.

[stevew]

If anyone wants to see a fun game, PHX/GS is on right now, and Steven Jackson is trying to defend Amare.

[Groundhog]

I'd love to see Shaq try keep up in this one.

[Jas_lov]

The defense is fantastic in this game! It is too bad that Shaq is still sitting out.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Why wouldn't he accept the trade? He figures to see more time in NJ I would think.

I should resurface the thread that asks whether you'd rather win a ring or be a Hall of Famer. He sure isn't going to be the latter...hence his desire for the former?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

So, if the Heat really want to, they can probably get both Eddy Curry and Mike Miller before the deadline with the expiring contracts they have and maybe a few of the younger players(cook, dorrell wright).

Going into next season they could easily have a lineup of

Wade
Miller
Marion
Haslem
Curry

With a bench rotation of a top 5 pick this year, whatever they sign with their MLE, Marcus Banks, and Mark Blount.

That'd put them in contention as soon as next year.

They absolutely need to make a couple more moves, and get rid of Jason Williams, Ricky Davis and Zo's expiring deals. Unless you think that Arenas is going to sign with you during the offseason or something and plan to let Marion expire.

If you believe that Riles is going to come back next year, then there is no way he takes on Eddy Curry.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I didn't know much about Thornton in college so my whole opinion on him up to the draft was based on articles from sport websites, and most of them were negative - or at least, most of the ones I happened to come across, anyhow. I can't remember specifics, but it made him sound risky to me. I'd lumped both Thornton and Thaddeus Young in to the same category as risky long guys who lack a true NBA position.

Interesting. Not what I read at all. Everyone I heard or read on him said he was a steady, veteran type who would bring an ability to step right into the league and play, but probably not have as much upside or growth potential as a result of his age at the time of being drafted. Some people thought he was the most "seasoned" of all the players available.

Other than the upside issue, the only other major issue I heard about him was that he is a bit of a tweener. Maybe a touch too small for power forward but a touch too slow for the wing forward.

All that said, the majority opinion read was "he can play, and he can play right away; he will immediately help whoever drafts him". The Clips were largely lauded for picking him.