MLB '09: The Show.........

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MLB Rule 10.17

It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective.

I just got brought into a 1-0 game in the 7th inning with nobody out, runners on 1st/2nd. I struck out the first two batters I faced, induced the third to ground out.

8th inning, I gave up a leadoff single followed by two pop flies to right. Runner did not advance.

Relief pitcher comes in for me, gets the third out, Bulls score one in the bottom of the 8th, closer gets the save in the 9th.

Given the context of that description of events, and the context of Rule 10.17 as cited above, who should have been credited with the win?

Hint: it ain't the motherfucker who got one out with a man on first.

Get your motherfucking rules right before you add shit like arbitration, Sony.

[SackAttack]

Dola - Bulls tied the game at 1 after I killed the Braves' 7th inning rally. The run in the bottom of the 8th made it a 2-1 Bulls' lead.

[DeToxRox]

The Bulls are who you played?

[SackAttack]

Nah. I pitch for the Bulls.

[Hammer755]

Rule 10.17 is almost never employed. 99.9% of the time, the reliever who is pitcher of record when the go-ahead run scores will get the win.

Edit - just read the follow-up post

So you gave up the game-tying run (probably not charged to you)? IMO, almost every scorer in the league would give the W to the pitcher who relieved you, since he would have been the pitcher of record when the winning run scored.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Rule 10.17 is almost never employed. 99.9% of the time, the reliever who is pitcher of record when the go-ahead run scores will get the win.

Edit - just read the follow-up post

So you gave up the game-tying run (probably not charged to you)? IMO, almost every scorer in the league would give the W to the pitcher who relieved you, since he would have been the pitcher of record when the winning run scored.

No.

Dammit, people, I pitch for the damn Bulls, who were LOSING when I entered the game.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Has any official scorer in the history of history given a win to a pitcher in SackAttack's position there? If so, I'd like to meet him, but he's probably been dead for about 300 years.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No.

Dammit, people, I pitch for the damn Bulls, who were LOSING when I entered the game.

Gotcha, but I still think the other guy gets the win. In fact, a scorer actually using his own judgment to award a win is so rare that I probably wouldn't even include 10.17 in a simulation. How would you even program it, considering the rule is subjective by its definition?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Yeah, it seems pretty clear to me. The most recent Bulls pitcher before the Bulls took the lead was not SackAttack. So pretty much always, that pitcher will get credited with the win.

[Hammer755]

Dola,

The only time I can recently recall seeing a scorer use the rule was this game last year when a spot starter for the Astros left a game after 4 2/3 innings with the lead. Since the starter was not eligible for the win, the scorer gave it to the 4th Houston pitcher of the game (even though they led the entire time), since he was deemed the most effective reliever.

I still remember that game a year later because of the unique scoring decision.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Gotcha, but I still think the other guy gets the win. In fact, a scorer actually using his own judgment to award a win is so rare that I probably wouldn't even include 10.17 in a simulation. How would you even program it, considering the rule is subjective by its definition?

The problem is that while 10.17 does give the scorer some leeway, the official interpretation of the rule does also specifically mention 'at least one inning,' with some leeway on effectiveness. Getting one out with a man on first in a tie game, by any objective standard, is not as effective as getting three outs with a runner in scoring position without allowing said inherited runner to score.

I have other gripes with RttS as a pitcher, but this is just the one that cheeses me off the most, since you need these arbitrary statistics in order to get the points to develop your pitcher with.

[Pumpy Tudors]

OK, I just read Rule 10.17(b), and - I'm sorry, SackAttack - your argument doesn't even apply.

Let's start with 10.17(a):

(a) The official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, unless
(1) such pitcher is a starting pitcher and Rule 10.17(b) applies; or
(2) Rule 10.17(c) applies.

And now Rule 10.17(b):

(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed
(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or
(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.

If I'm reading this correctly, Rule 10.17(b) is basically the rule that says the starter has to go five innings to get credit for the win. It had nothing to do with a reliever coming in when his team is losing.

[EagleFan]

What is 10.17 (c) ?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

What is 10.17 (c) ?

I should have continued.

(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.

[SackAttack]

*headdesk*

Runner on first, one out. Guy hits a liner to the first baseman on a hit-and-run. First baseman catches it neatly.

First baseman is two steps away from the bag and could easily have had an unassisted double play. Instead...he throws the ball to me, and then refuses to go back to 1B to cover when I try to return the throw.

No, I'm apparently supposed to be faster than a speeding bullet getting to first to cover on a liner hit right to him. I get pulled, reliever gives up a double to score the run, which is counted against me. First time in RttS I've quit out of an appearance. That was bullshit.

[RPI-Fan]

You have some high standards my man...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

You have some high standards my man...

LOL, I thought the same thing. But I realize that discussions like the one Sack Attack brings up are very important to ironing out the little things that make this game even better than the great game it already is. This franchise is one of the few that appears to have self-motivated developers that don't need competition to push them to make the best game possible. That's to be commended.

I'm really hoping I can put in some time with this game over the weekend. Been busy this week with other things.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

You have some high standards my man...

I have no tolerance for petty bullshit, and less so when the game or franchise has otherwise demonstrated excellence. Comparably tiny 'WTF' moments are less excusable in a polished game than in a turd, you know? If the entire game is a turd, the WTF moment is sort of symptomatic of the game as a whole.

If the game is otherwise polished, those sort of moments stand out much more glaringly than they otherwise might. Besides, "a man's reach should exceed his grasp."

I'd rather expect perfection and settle for excellence than expect excellence and settle for mediocre...or worse (I'm looking at you, MLB2k9).

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I have other gripes with RttS as a pitcher, but this is just the one that cheeses me off the most, since you need these arbitrary statistics in order to get the points to develop your pitcher with.

As someone who does not have a PS3 so does not play The Show but follows along as an interested (sports) gamer, I think this is the comment everyone needs to focus on. If you've got a design where stats are critical to player development, I'd be getting cheesed off too if these things kept happening that ripped stats away from me and prevented me from developing as a player. If you're playing a franchise or a position player, these issues mean nothing to your fun. But in Sack's position, they are HUGE.

[rowech]

Got my PS3 today through FedEx but for some reason they shipped the Show via Postal Service so now I sit and wait.

[Big Fo]

I wish you could just have your pitcher auto-defend like you have the option of doing in exhibition/franchise/RTTS as a batter.

[RainMaker]

Couple huge threads on OS about comeback codes, the comeback option being reversed, clutch playing too much a role, and so on. I've seen a lot of comebacks in my games but didn't realize so many people were seeing the same thing. Anyone seeing what they are seeing?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Couple huge threads on OS about comeback codes, the comeback option being reversed, clutch playing too much a role, and so on. I've seen a lot of comebacks in my games but didn't realize so many people were seeing the same thing. Anyone seeing what they are seeing?

Over 25 games in, playing season mode, and no I am not having comeback issues. I've blown out the AI and have been blown out by the AI with plenty of one and two run games to boot. There have been a couple of comebacks and I admit very early in my season I wondered, Marmol blew his first two save opportunities for me giving up homers in both games. However with my sample size increasing almost daily I no longer question it. Marmol has gone onto 9 straight saves dominating while doing so.
Either sample size or paranoia IMHO.

[SackAttack]

Biggest pet peeve about RttS as a reliever: I'm apparently not allowed to give up a hit, at any time, with any lead, ever, or I get pulled.

The rest of the bullpen is so shitty, that the inherited runner (on fucking FIRST) will inevitably score, which means that my ERA bloats for the appearance and I'll lose 1/3 to 1/2 of any points I earned for other accomplishments.

Good system, guys!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Biggest pet peeve about RttS as a reliever: I'm apparently not allowed to give up a hit, at any time, with any lead, ever, or I get pulled.

The rest of the bullpen is so shitty, that the inherited runner (on fucking FIRST) will inevitably score, which means that my ERA bloats for the appearance and I'll lose 1/3 to 1/2 of any points I earned for other accomplishments.

Good system, guys!

I'm telling you, being a reliever is broken. You just can't develop due to the way the points are given. I played many years as one and just gave up. I went through years of being statistically one of the better relievers and never moved past being one of the worst relievers in the league.

I was really pumped about being a closer, but it's just not possible to enjoy. I've moved to starter and enjoy it much more.

One other gripe as a pitcher. The points seem arbitrary. For instance I get 20 for a win as a starter. But I get 10 for every strikeout. 2 strikeouts = 1 win? Come on. All the points also seem to be based on getting ground balls or getting ahead in the count. I don't mind those, I just think they should be worth much less while the overall performance is given the most points. It sucks to go 7 innings and allow 1 run and not get as many points as I'd get if I went 4 innings and gave up 4 runs but got ahead in the count when they asked me to.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm telling you, being a reliever is broken. You just can't develop due to the way the points are given. I played many years as one and just gave up. I went through years of being statistically one of the better relievers and never moved past being one of the worst relievers in the league.

I was really pumped about being a closer, but it's just not possible to enjoy. I've moved to starter and enjoy it much more.

One other gripe as a pitcher. The points seem arbitrary. For instance I get 20 for a win as a starter. But I get 10 for every strikeout. 2 strikeouts = 1 win? Come on. All the points also seem to be based on getting ground balls or getting ahead in the count. I don't mind those, I just think they should be worth much less while the overall performance is given the most points. It sucks to go 7 innings and allow 1 run and not get as many points as I'd get if I went 4 innings and gave up 4 runs but got ahead in the count when they asked me to.

It sucks worse to have a goal to get a ground ball out, induce a ground ball, have your third baseman boot it, and wind up losing development points as a result of somebody else's miscue.

Here's the thing - if there were a better set of goals for relievers versus starters, it could actually work, because relievers can pitch several times per week. Something else I wish they'd do - have pitch development work in a fashion similar to pitch use. In-game, if you consistently get a pitch over, it becomes more effective, and if you fail to, it becomes less effective. Have pitches that get used more frequently develop at a faster rate than pitches that don't. It's absurd that I can have three pitches, only use two, and still use development points to improve that third pitch that I never use.

Maybe set it up to where you can also pitch bullpen sessions to work on things like velocity and break, and instead of a flat 200 points to learn a pitch, 200 points plus you have to be able to hit the strike zone with it 7 times out of 10 in a bullpen session or something like that.

Right now, pitching in general just seems more wooden than hitting, where you have a practice mode that helps you develop. Unless I'm missing something, pitchers don't have that, and because they AREN'T everyday players, I think they could use it more.

[SackAttack]

Demanded a trade from the Rays to see if I could end up with a manager who'd actually use me in a sane manner. Yankees dealt Damaso Marte for me, and the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre manager did in fact meet that criteria.

About a half-dozen appearances with a more realistic leash before making me the closer. My first three saves were against the team I had left - Durham - before Tampa Bay traded Joe Nelson to the Yankees to get me back. >.<

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Have had a pretty rough 2nd half of the season with my starting pitcher. Record is now 11-8 with a ERA of 2.14 and a WHIP around 1.1. My record is mostly due to my new team's total lack of offense. I've had two and three run outings where I couldn't get a win. Got one more start before the end of the season.

[CleBrownsfan]

I just got called up from AA to AAA and I got pounded the two starts in AAA. Has the jump been pretty tough for you guys? These guys are hitting the balls hard I didn't see many ball this hard in AA.

Also, is the promotion pretty much directed by meeting your goals?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I just got called up from AA to AAA and I got pounded the two starts in AAA. Has the jump been pretty tough for you guys? These guys are hitting the balls hard I didn't see many ball this hard in AA.

Also, is the promotion pretty much directed by meeting your goals?

Goals help, but you have to put up good stats. Also, it sometimes depends on need. You might not be ready for the jump, but someone gets injured and they need a player to fill the roster. 10-15 day callups for the first couple of times aren't that uncommon until your player improves to the point where they can be an every day player at the next level.

I haven't got promoted yet in my current RTTS, but I usually got shelled pretty badly in the 08 version when I was initially called up.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Demanded a trade from the Rays to see if I could end up with a manager who'd actually use me in a sane manner. Yankees dealt Damaso Marte for me, and the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre manager did in fact meet that criteria.

About a half-dozen appearances with a more realistic leash before making me the closer. My first three saves were against the team I had left - Durham - before Tampa Bay traded Joe Nelson to the Yankees to get me back. >.<

So much for that. I knew that the game autosaves after a game appearance, but apparently the trade happened after the autosave. I had shut the PS3 off to go eat lunch yesterday, and when I returned, I was still a Yankee.

Got traded to the Cardinals 3 games later, though, so at least in the NL I can make use of the new batting practice mode, even as a pitcher.

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I just got called up from AA to AAA and I got pounded the two starts in AAA. Has the jump been pretty tough for you guys? These guys are hitting the balls hard I didn't see many ball this hard in AA.

Also, is the promotion pretty much directed by meeting your goals?

I can usually succeed in short appearances, which is partly why I'm a reliever and not a starter. As far as promotion goes, it appears to be tripartite - goals, skills, and performance. Your performance can be lights out, but if the game goes 'huh, your skills aren't where they should be,' you won't get promoted. I don't know that failure to meet your goals would prevent your promotion, but it might hold you back, at least. The ratings-based goals make some sense, at least, but the statistical ones...I'm not really sure what overall impact they have on your progression, other than merely to improve your stats in those categories.

[dfisher]

I threw a perfect game on Saturday online with Cole Hamels against the Dodgers. The players mobbed him and carried him out on their shoulders.

I'm having a blast playing online; almost every game has come down to the last AB. I'm usually the Phillies, but I wish Hamels had a 4th pitch. He has a fastball, changeup, and curve. Yesterday, I played the Yankees and the person I was facing guessed low fastball every pitch. It made it hard to get a pitch in without him knowing either the pitch type or location. I lost 7-5, with Jayson Werth hitting into a double play with the bases loaded in the 9th inning. Laying off the low pitch is hard.

Some great games, with only having to quit one because of lag. Other than the perfect game, my favorite is Greg Dobbs hitting a walk-off 2 run pinch hit homer off of Papelbon.

Oh, and the knuckleball is nasty.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Goals help, but you have to put up good stats. Also, it sometimes depends on need. You might not be ready for the jump, but someone gets injured and they need a player to fill the roster. 10-15 day callups for the first couple of times aren't that uncommon until your player improves to the point where they can be an every day player at the next level.

I haven't got promoted yet in my current RTTS, but I usually got shelled pretty badly in the 08 version when I was initially called up.

I don't know about that. I put up 40 saves two years in a row with an ERA under 2 in AAA and didn't get called up because my ratings weren't good. I still think ratings are over 50% of the process.

[rowech]

Well, I'm just horrible in this game...I've played five games, somehow scored three runs in the first game I played and have scored one run since. I'm not sure if its because I always face the other team's #1's or what...I'm simply horrible.

[SackAttack]

Why Road to the Show is horribly broken for relievers:

1) Inconsistent appearance patterns can cause difficulty attaining some goals

Such as, say, having three series to improve three attributes while racking up a certain number of saves. If your team loses 7 straight and you don't get into a game, good luck getting there.

2) Multiple attribute goals in each cycle makes it hard to get ahead.

Yeah, you'll benefit from getting that H/9 up, but where do you find the time/points to work on your velocity and control? This is why pitchers need bullpen sessions akin to hitters' batting practice. If it's there, I haven't seen it yet in a season and a half. Ideally, that's how you'd work on your pitching ratings - bullpen sessions, plus getting certain types of outs (strikeouts, double plays) with a particular pitch. That would leave the goal points you earn for the more esoteric ratings, like H/9, HR/9, and for more tangible ratings like your fielding ability.

3) Inconsistent positive/negative goal application

"Don't walk the hitter." --> give up a double to left --> "Succeeded: 5"

"Get a ground ball out." --> induce a ground ball which your shortstop proceeds to boot or sail over the first baseman's head --> "Failed: -15."

4) Certain accomplishments always yield points, while others only do so when the game gives you an in-game goal.

Get called in with runners on 1st/2nd and one out? Cool. Striking out the two batters you face will net you 20 points. Inducing a first-pitch double play to end the game? Not a thing, unless the game has given you a "get a ground ball out" goal. Which leads me to...

5) Pitch efficiency isn't rewarded. If you go 3-2 to every batter and strike out the side while throwing 24 pitches, you get the same 30 points as you would if you struck out the side on 9 pitches, and 30 points more than you would for inducing three ground ball outs on three pitches (unless aforementioned goal had been given). It doesn't matter how effective you are at working the corners most of the time. It only matters if you hit that arbitrary goal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

3) Inconsistent positive/negative goal application

"Don't walk the hitter." --> give up a double to left --> "Succeeded: 5"

"Get a ground ball out." --> induce a ground ball which your shortstop proceeds to boot or sail over the first baseman's head --> "Failed: -15."

I disagree that the first example is incorrect. The goal is to make sure you strike the player out or put the ball in play. Whether you get the out or not is inconsequential.

I agree that the second example is misapplied. Another example that I would note that you didn't mention is the 'Get ahead in the count' goal. If you throw a strike on the first pitch and get an out, it says 'Goal Cancelled - 0'. IMO, you should get a 'Positive Result' for that scenario. The development team fixed several similar situations in last year's game. I'm hoping they address these scoring issues in the next patch, which is expected to have a lot of problem fixes and adjustments.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Finished my first season with my 18 year old starter in AA. Final record was 11-8 with an ERA of 2.04 and a WHIP of 1.04 (both the ERA and WHIP were #1 in the league). I was not invited to spring training, but I was promoted to AAA to start the next season and had two good starts to begin the season. Probably will spend at least 2 seasons in AAA given my youth.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I disagree that the first example is incorrect. The goal is to make sure you strike the player out or put the ball in play. Whether you get the out or not is inconsequential.

I agree that the second example is misapplied. Another example that I would note that you didn't mention is the 'Get ahead in the count' goal. If you throw a strike on the first pitch and get an out, it says 'Goal Cancelled - 0'. IMO, you should get a 'Positive Result' for that scenario. The development team fixed several similar situations in last year's game. I'm hoping they address these scoring issues in the next patch, which is expected to have a lot of problem fixes and adjustments.

My point is, you're being rewarded for giving up a hit - something for which, as a reliever, you will gain fewer points because you now have a WHIP between 1.000 and 2.000 unless you're a middle reliever going two innings and that's the only hit you allow.

The "Get ahead in the count" one is also stupid, but it's not a clear case of misapplication.

The other thing I love is that if you give up a hit and the runner gets into scoring position, you will nearly invariably get a 'don't let the run score' goal, which is worth 25 points. In short, you can get rewarded for a situation of your own creation. It's almost *worth* giving up a hit in every appearance just so that he moves to 2nd to give you a shot at that 25 points.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

My point is, you're being rewarded for giving up a hit - something for which, as a reliever, you will gain fewer points because you now have a WHIP between 1.000 and 2.000 unless you're a middle reliever going two innings and that's the only hit you allow.

Sorry. Missed your point. I haven't noticed it as much because I'm a starter and have plenty of inning to bring that WHIP down.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sorry. Missed your point. I haven't noticed it as much because I'm a starter and have plenty of inning to bring that WHIP down.

And that's also why relieving is broken.

The stats off of which points are awarded are better suited to starting pitching than relieving. You can give up a solo HR in a 3 run game, strike out the side after that, and come away with 0 points because you gave up a HR (-20) had an ERA of 9.00 (-10 or something crazy like that), got three strikeouts (+30).

Unless you either had a goal of 'strike out the hitter' against one of those three or were the closer/setup man and got points for the save or the hold, you just got neutered by double jeopardy + stats that require perfection from a reliever but don't punish a starter quite so harshly.

[rowech]

I've had my PS3 almost a week now and I still have no clue how to view the memory being used, available, what's on the hard drive, etc. How do I look at this?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by rowech

I've had my PS3 almost a week now and I still have no clue how to view the memory being used, available, what's on the hard drive, etc. How do I look at this?

As far as what's on the hard drive, you can use the game data utility and saved data utility on the 'Game' part of the media bar. Same with any video, pictures or music you've put on the hard drive, only in their respective areas.

As far as how much space is left, Settings -> System Settings -> System Information should give you that.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

As far as what's on the hard drive, you can use the game data utility and saved data utility on the 'Game' part of the media bar. Same with any video, pictures or music you've put on the hard drive, only in their respective areas.

As far as how much space is left, Settings -> System Settings -> System Information should give you that.

Thanks.

[RainMaker]

The RTTS bug can take over at any year it appears. So you can be 8 years into your career and see it in September of that year. Such a great game in many aspects but to have your main feature radically broken makes this a gamekiller temporarily. I just can't put in the time to a career that ill inevitably be destroyed early.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The RTTS bug can take over at any year it appears. So you can be 8 years into your career and see it in September of that year. Such a great game in many aspects but to have your main feature radically broken makes this a gamekiller temporarily. I just can't put in the time to a career that ill inevitably be destroyed early.

I know - every time I'm playing my RTTS career I think that. Do you think that a patch will be able to fix this? If so, I wonder if it will fix a career already in progress?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I know - every time I'm playing my RTTS career I think that. Do you think that a patch will be able to fix this? If so, I wonder if it will fix a career already in progress?

The developers are aware of the issue and are working on the problem. I'm sure they will do everything they can to make it work with current files since the save file is still technically sound even when you hit the issue.

[DeToxRox]

How do you guys play your franchise? I play 1 game every series and sim the rest. Sometimes I'll play two but 1 and sim 2 or 3 works well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

How do you guys play your franchise? I play 1 game every series and sim the rest. Sometimes I'll play two but 1 and sim 2 or 3 works well.

I play every game. Starting pitcher can go through games pretty quick that way. Also, if you're playing with a position player, I'd suggest no baserunning. You can play a whole lot more doing it that way.

[TroyF]

I think he was referring to franchise, not RttS.

My quick fire impressions of this years version:

1) Whoever talked about doubles down the line being improved lied. I've seen line drives, but a hard hit grounder down the line just dies.

2) Thank God I can skip baserunning now. Seriously, thank God.

3) The "positive" result goal has fixed a lot of the glaring problems with scoring points as a hitter.

4) It just seems sloppier this year than other years. We all know of the RttS bug by now. (which thankfully hasn't hit me, I'm saving month by month with different save files, so hopefully I'll get around it) But it's more than that. A lot of dumb mistakes in commentary. Some baserunning glitches, bunted ball glitches, etc. that just didn't exist previous years.

5) I'm a starter in my PSP game and the thing is ridiculously easy to control. I have like 7 walks in 75 innings. And I'm not just grooving fastballs on 3-0 counts.

6) Still, the best baseball game in town and the best sports experiance on a console, bar none.

[Logan]

Now that you bring up commentary errors, I have noticed a pretty large amount. The first time I heard one I thought the announcers "accidentally" confused Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado, which seems to happen a decent amount IRL, but its pretty frequent. They also make mistakes in the count, inning, score, "foul ball down the line" when it's popped up behind the catcher...not excessive, maybe one per game at most.