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Old 05-15-2006, 01:08 PM   #351
Solecismic
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I can only conclude that the prosecution is going forth with the strategy, "well, she was fairly addled on drugs and alcohol, so she can't identify who did it. But she's convinced something bad happened and some guy at this party sent a nasty email, so I believe her and you should, too. We should punish all the privileged kids in America by randomly selecting three members of this team."
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:11 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Maple Leafs
What does "inconclusive DNA" mean?

It means that the sample wasn't clean enough to take many markers, so a match may only rule out 70% of the population, or some similar percentage that wouldn't mean much statistically.

For all we know, the third accused player was the only one who had all the markers (remember, they were all required to submit samples), so that could be the sole basis of this latest arrest.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:17 PM   #353
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yup, the third player was indicted today. Way to make a shaky case even shakier!
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Old 05-15-2006, 03:53 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2443217
the tests showed genetic material from a "single male source" was found on a vaginal swab taken from the accuser, but that material did not match any of the players.

"In other words, it appears this woman had sex with a male," said Cheshire, who spoke at a news conference with other defense attorneys in the case. "It also appears with certainty it wasn't a Duke lacrosse player."
....
The "single male source" who matched the genetic material found on the vaginal swab take from the victim is named in the report on the second round of DNA tests, which were done at a private lab. Cheshire said the man "is known to the Durham police department" but he declined to give the man's name or comment on his relationship with the accuser.

"There is no indication that this man should have his name dragged through the mud," he said.
Wow.
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:01 PM   #355
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Yet the Duke players *should* have had their names dragged throught he mud? I'm not sure I follow that logic.
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:04 PM   #356
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Yet the Duke players *should* have had their names dragged throught he mud? I'm not sure I follow that logic.
I think that was actually a quote from Cheshire, who is one of the Defense Attorneys, so not really inconsistent there.
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:22 AM   #357
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Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but
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Originally Posted by hxxp://www.wral.com/news/9343920/detail.html
New court filings in the Duke lacrosse rape case suggest that a second exotic dancer initially told Durham police that the alleged victim's rape claim could not be true and that it was "a crock."


According to the 32-page motion filed on Wednesday by defense attorney Kirk Osborn, the second dancer, Kim Roberts, told police that she was with the alleged victim the entire time at the March 13 party except for a period of less than five minutes.


But in Durham police search warrants made public earlier this year, the alleged victim told police she had been raped, beaten and sodomized for a 30-minute period by three Duke lacrosse players in a bathroom.
...
Wednesday's motion also claims that the initial examination performed on the alleged victim did not reach a conclusion as to whether she was raped and that the only trace of physical trauma included a scratch on the alleged victim's knee and heel.


Osborn writes that the alleged victim said she was hit, kicked and strangled, but that the investigator in the case, Benjamin Himan, omitted that "the examining physician … at 3:14 a.m. [on March 14] found no neck, back, chest or abdominal tenderness."


He also writes that the investigator's probable cause affidavit omitted that the sexual assault examination found that "no condoms, fingers or foreign objects were used during the alleged sexual assault."
...
The motion also states that prior to going to the lacrosse player's party that the accuser "had a function at a hotel room with a couple where she performed using a [sexual device], which clearly could have caused signs or symptoms of vaginal penetration."

Osborn also writes that had Himan interviewed a man, identified in the motion as her "driver" Jarrel Johnson, he would have "discovered sooner" that the alleged victim was also involved in some sexual manner with at least four different men during the weekend of March 10-12.
From a different article - "Osborn says the accuser gave conflicting accounts of what happened. The motion says medical records indicate she told a doctor that she used no alcohol or drugs. The accuser told the sexual assault nurse that she had consumed one drink of alcohol and was taking Flexeril, a prescription drug used to treat muscle spasms." A muscle relaxant+alcohol. And the accuser was originally taken not to the hospital... but the drunk tank.

Also FWIW, DA Nifong has postponed any trial to Spring 2007.
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:09 AM   #358
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There are also other articles on how much money he's spending on this. When the first round of DNA tests turned up NOTHING, he spent $30K to get another round done by a private lab. That's the one that turned up the possible potential maybe match that led to the third arrest. He's really starting to dig and stretch.
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:27 PM   #359
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There are also other articles on how much money he's spending on this. When the first round of DNA tests turned up NOTHING, he spent $30K to get another round done by a private lab. That's the one that turned up the possible potential maybe match that led to the third arrest. He's really starting to dig and stretch.

doesnt he still have an election to win?
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:32 PM   #360
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doesnt he still have an election to win?

Yes, but it would be an uphill battle for the challenger.

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/449748.html
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:20 PM   #361
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So now that the accuser has turned up 9 months pregnant, the judge has ordered testing be done to determine whether any of the 3 accused is the father. The DA is claiming she got pregnant a couple of weeks later.

I haven't followed this case that closely, but the consensus of what I've heard/read is that the DA had almost no case to begin with. And this certainly isn't going to help. Assuming none of the 3 are the father, the defense now gets to argue that fact in favor of their clients. And, even if it is proven somehow that she didn't get pregnant at the party but in the weeks afterward, there's the obvious question of why someone who was raped would have sex of any kind that soon after the rape occurred. Admittedly, I don't know the psychology of rape victims well, so I don't know whether that would be unusual or not. But I would think it is.

What a mess this case is for the prosecution.
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:43 PM   #362
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Well, the DNA already ruled out the players, but included evidence of sex with the boyfriend, so I'd bet he's the father.

I used to think the DA's office was afraid of racial protests, and that's why they were pursuing this. But now, the case doesn't seem to have any support with anyone.
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Old 12-15-2006, 02:12 PM   #363
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And, even if it is proven somehow that she didn't get pregnant at the party but in the weeks afterward, there's the obvious question of why someone who was raped would have sex of any kind that soon after the rape occurred. Admittedly, I don't know the psychology of rape victims well, so I don't know whether that would be unusual or not. But I would think it is.

It's actually not uncommon at all. Both extreme reactions (becoming unusually promiscuous and totally celibate) are consistent and common with rape trauma.
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Old 12-15-2006, 05:36 PM   #364
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Also Friday a lab director admitted in court that after an agreement with Nifong, he violated his own procedures and withheld results showing none of the players' DNA was found on or in her body.

Dr. Brian Meehan, lab director at DNA Security Inc., said he and Nifong agreed to include only DNA matches in the report on his testing results. The report released in May omitted information about people the DNA tests excluded, including the fact that no genetic material from any member of the lacrosse team was among that from several males found in the accuser's underwear and body.

"We are extremely troubled by that," Cheshire said. The full testing results, showing the exclusions, were disclosed through a defense request over the summer.


Defense attorneys have stressed for months that no sex occurred at the party and have cited DNA testing that found genetic material from several males in the accuser's body and her underwear -- but none from any member of the lacrosse team.
If not for the fact that the 3 kids are facing 20+ years in jail and legal fees, would be quite the comedy of errors.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:33 PM   #365
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If not for the fact that the 3 kids are facing 20+ years in jail and legal fees, would be quite the comedy of errors.


How was anyone charged in this?
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Old 12-15-2006, 07:10 PM   #366
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How was anyone charged in this?

Because there was an election coming up.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:10 PM   #367
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Breaking news: Rape charges dropped . . . but kidnapping charges remain.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2706267

This is just getting dumb. She doesn't know if she was penetrated??? Might be significant info the prosecutor might have wanted to check on BEFORE laying rape charges.

Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 12-22-2006 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:15 PM   #368
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So now there is no DNA and the accuser has changed her story. I don't think there is a hope that a conviction for anything happens in this case. If you're the defense attorney, you gotta start smiling on this one.

I can't stand the rush to justice here based on what the prosecutor had to know was not a credible witness. All of this investigation, testing should have occurred BEFORE charges were laid -- not AFTER, packaged with an "oops we jumped the gun."
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:52 PM   #369
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http://sports.myway.com/news/12282006/v5915.html

N.C. Bar Files Ethics Charges Against Duke Lacrosse Prosecutor
Dec 28, 7:10 PM (ET)
By AARON BEARD

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -The North Carolina bar filed ethics charges Thursday against the prosecutor in the Duke lacrosse rape case, accusing him of saying misleading and inflammatory things to the media about the athletes under suspicion.

The punishment for ethics violations can range from admonishment to disbarment.

Among the four rules of professional conduct that District Attorney Mike Nifong was accused of violating was a prohibition against making comments "that have a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused."

In a statement, the bar said it opened a case against Nifong on March 30, a little more than two weeks after a 28-year-old woman hired to perform as a stripper at a lacrosse team party said she was gang-raped.

The ethics charges will be heard by an independent body called the Disciplinary Hearing Commission, made up of both lawyers and non-lawyers.

Nifong did not immediately return a call for comment.

The bar cited 40 quotations and eight paraphrased statements made to newspaper and TV reporters, saying many of them amounted to "improper commentary about the character, credibility and reputation of the accused" or their alleged unwillingness to cooperate. Most of the comments were in March and April, in the early days of the case.

Among them:

- Nifong referred to the lacrosse players as "a bunch of hooligans."
- He declared: "I am convinced there was a rape, yes, sir."
- He told ESPN: "One would wonder why one needs an attorney if one was not charged and had not done anything wrong."
- He told The New York Times: "I'm disappointed that no one has been enough of a man to come forward. And if they would have spoken up at the time, this may never have happened."

Nifong was also charged with breaking a rule against "dishonesty, fraud, deceit and misrepresentation." The bar said that when DNA testing failed to find any evidence a lacrosse player raped the accuser, Nifong told a reporter the players might have used a condom.

According to the bar, Nifong knew that assertion was misleading, because he had received a report from an emergency room nurse in which the accuser said her attackers did not use a condom.

Defense attorney Joseph Cheshire, who represents one of the three athletes, declined to comment Thursday.

Last week, Nifong dropped the rape charges against the athletes after the stripper wavered in her story, saying she was longer certain she was penetrated vaginally with a penis, as she had claimed several times before. The men still face charges of kidnapping and sexual offense.

In recent months - and especially after last week - legal experts and even Nifong's own colleagues have warned openly that the case appears pitifully weak.

"One wonders what the effect of this will be," Stan Goldman, who teaches criminal law at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, said after the ethics charges were filed. "Is this going to result in him treating the case more gingerly and deciding it's not worth pursuing, or is he going to get his back up and decide he's got to pursue this case to the end regardless?"
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:59 PM   #370
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Good. This guy's an absolute embarrassment. I'm worked as a prosecutor for only a very short time, and I just can't comprehend someone who has reached the level of D.A. showing such incompetence - especially in terms of the above quoted comments.
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:39 AM   #371
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All charges are about to be dropped. I am shocked.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,260426,00.html
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:59 AM   #372
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All charges are about to be dropped. I am shocked.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,260426,00.html

If so, I hope they go after the lying bitch.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:04 PM   #373
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It is in the article that she says these things happened. So, you're saying she made the claims these happened, the police looked at her and didn't find any physical indication that it did happen, but they still got a search warrant and DNA samples. Why? All of the police are North Carolina fans?

Yes

Also, will there be protests and rallies from everyone who rallied before saying they're sorry?
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:00 PM   #374
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All charges are about to be dropped. I am shocked.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,260426,00.html

I'm not shocked at all. I could see this coming a mile away after the rape charges were dropped. It's interesting to go back in this thread and read some of the opinions at the time.

Remember, all that insurmountable physical evidence that was supposed to be out there. Hmmm.

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Old 03-23-2007, 07:22 PM   #375
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http://sports.myway.com/news/12282006/v5915.html


- Nifong referred to the lacrosse players as "a bunch of hooligans."
- He declared: "I am convinced there was a rape, yes, sir."
- He told ESPN: "One would wonder why one needs an attorney if one was not charged and had not done anything wrong."
- He told The New York Times: "I'm disappointed that no one has been enough of a man to come forward. And if they would have spoken up at the time, this may never have happened."

Nifong was also charged with breaking a rule against "dishonesty, fraud, deceit and misrepresentation." The bar said that when DNA testing failed to find any evidence a lacrosse player raped the accuser, Nifong told a reporter the players might have used a condom.

According to the bar, Nifong knew that assertion was misleading, because he had received a report from an emergency room nurse in which the accuser said her attackers did not use a condom.

I'm not a lawyer, nor a fan of Nifong, but this strikes me as a pretty weak case to try to bring.

- Nifong referred to the lacrosse players as "a bunch of hooligans."

Ok, that's not very nice, but I don't see how its an ethical issue at all.

- He declared: "I am convinced there was a rape, yes, sir."

If he's bringing charges wouldn't you expect him to say exactly this?

- He told ESPN: "One would wonder why one needs an attorney if one was not charged and had not done anything wrong."

Again, I'm not a fan of this, but it doesn't strike me as particularly egregious.

- He told The New York Times: "I'm disappointed that no one has been enough of a man to come forward. And if they would have spoken up at the time, this may never have happened."

If you assume that Nifong believed there was a rape, this seems perfectly appropriate.
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:38 PM   #376
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Nifong told a reporter the players might have used a condom.

According to the bar, Nifong knew that assertion was misleading, because he had received a report from an emergency room nurse in which the accuser said her attackers did not use a condom.

This seems a little telling. He found out that he had no evidence so he offered an explanation he knew to be false.

Believing there to be a rape doesn't seem such a bad conclusion. Seems there wasn't much evidence that it was the lacrosse players, but a rape by someone seemed possible with the condition she was found in.

The comment about wondering why one would need a lawyer when one hasn't been charged is fairly bad though. The story was out there before they were charged and nobody should be thought guilty just because they got a lawyer before the charges actually came.

If all of this does add up to an ethics violation, I would bet the guy gets little more than a slap on the wrist. This sure doesn't sound like a major violation.
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:02 PM   #377
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I'm not shocked at all. I could see this coming a mile away after the rape charges were dropped. It's interesting to go back in this thread and read some of the opinions at the time.

Remember, all that insurmountable physical evidence that was supposed to be out there. Hmmm.

I need to reset the forums sarcasm radar.
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Old 03-23-2007, 09:12 PM   #378
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I'd rather hang the district attorney than the "lying bitch".

As a young'n in law school, I'm absolutely apalled at the DA's actions in the Duke lacrosse allegations
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:01 PM   #379
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3028515&page=1

By LARA SETRAKIAN
ABC News Law & Justice Unit

April 10, 2007 — The office of North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper will announce that he is dismissing all charges against three Duke Lacrosse players, ABC News has learned from sources close to the case.

The three players, Reade Seligmann, David Evans and Collin Finnerty, were facing charges of first degree kidnapping and first degree forcible sexual offense. The charges stem from an off-campus party on the night of March 13, 2006.

In the hours after the party, one of two dancers hired to perform for the players claimed she had been violently raped in a bathroom by members of the lacrosse team. The players had also been indicted for first degree rape, but that charge was dismissed on Dec. 22, 2006.

Special prosecutors from the Attorney General's office took over the case after Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong recused himself in January, citing charges of unethical conduct filed against him by the North Carolina Bar. Since then, Jim Coman and Mary Winstead have examined the case from scratch, interviewing key witnesses and working through reams of evidence.

The reasons that will be cited for the dismissal are not yet known, though the case has been riddled with criticism and colored by controversy since its early months. Defense attorneys released documents showing the accuser changed key details of her story in the weeks and months after the alleged assault.

Legal analysts and forensic experts have criticized what they call a critically flawed photo identification lineup — a lineup that led to the identification and indictment of Evans, Finnerty, Seligmann. No DNA evidence was found matching any lacrosse players with samples from the rape kit, while DNA from unidentified men was found on the accuser's body and clothing.

On Tuesday, a spokeswoman for the Attorney General confirmed to ABC News that his office had completed its investigation into the Duke lacrosse case. A press conference on the outcome of their inquiry is widely expected sometime this week, though members of that office have not yet revealed a date and time.
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:05 PM   #380
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No idea of the truthiness, but I heard a rumor some weeks ago that nobody actually even knows where the "victim" is, including the prosecutors. That's from somebody who works for Duke, so take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:54 AM   #381
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Sigh....
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:06 PM   #382
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Sigh....

Noop, this is not a case of some poor black woman being victimized by the media. She basically lied to the police about an assault that obviously never happened. The woman had semen from multiple men that did not belong to the accused. She changed her story on more than one occasion. She even admitted that there wasn't even penetration when she claimed so in her earlier statements.

I won't be surprised if the state ends up filing charges on her for filing a false police report and making false accusations. She better be lucky she doesn't have any money because those three kids have every right to file a defamation suit against her. Plus, the police, state, and the university are looking at huge lawsuits against them. People in power are going to have her head on a stick before it is all said and done.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:16 PM   #383
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- He told ESPN: "One would wonder why one needs an attorney if one was not charged and had not done anything wrong."

Again, I'm not a fan of this, but it doesn't strike me as particularly egregious.


Replying to an old post here, but this comment is GROSSLY unethical and inappropriate. If such a prosecutor made a comment during a trial, it would be grounds for an immediate mistrial, no questions asked. Saying it at a public press conference is just insanity. Everyone has a right to be represented by an attorney, and a right against self-incrimination. For a DA to infer guilt via the exercise of either of these rights sets our country back decades.

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Old 04-11-2007, 09:34 PM   #384
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Replying to an old post here, but this comment is GROSSLY unethical and inappropriate. If such a prosecutor made a comment during a trial, it would be grounds for an immediate mistrial, no questions asked. Saying it at a public press conference is just insanity. Everyone has a right to be represented by an attorney, and a right against self-incrimination. For a DA to infer guilty via the exercise of either of these rights sets our country back decades.


I am now a molson fan.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:20 PM   #385
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Sigh....

I'm curious what you mean by this.
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:27 PM   #386
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not sure if this has been posted....


Photos:
http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_i...m_crystal1.jpg
http://www.foxnews.com/images/271454...um_crystal.jpg

Crystal Gail Mangum: Profile of the Duke Rape Accuser
Some of the details of the Duke University rape case may never be solved, but one thing is startlingly clear: Crystal Gail Mangum, the woman who accused three college lacrosse players of locking her in a bathroom and raping her, has had a very troubled life.

Mangum has been identified by name publicly several times, including by lawyers during press conferences on the case.

According to North Carolina Department of Corrections records, she was born on July 18, 1978, to a truck driver. She grew up the youngest of three children, not far from the house where she claimed she was assaulted in 2006. Durham is a slow-paced Southern town with equally large populations of black and white residents and a history of racial tensions — including those between a wealthy, predominantly white university community and its poorer black neighbors.

In 1993, when she was 14 years old, Mangum claimed to have been kidnapped by three men, driven to a house in Creedmoor, N.C., 15 miles away from Durham, and raped. She said one of the men was her boyfriend at the time, and was a physically and emotionally abusive man seven years older than she was. Creedmoor Police Chief Ted Pollard said Mangum filed a report on the incident in Aug. 18, 1996, three years after the rapes allegedly took place. The case, however, was not pursued, because the accuser backed away from the charges out of fear for her life, according to her relatives.

Family members still disagree on what really happened in 1993. The accuser's father has said he believes his daughter was not raped or injured in that incident, while her mother has said a rape involving three men in Creedmoor did occur, but said it happened when her daughter was 17 or 18; Mangum's ex-husband, Kenneth Nathanial McNeill, has said he believes the 1993 rape accusations are true.

According to her father, the year after the alleged Creedmoor rape, Mangum saw a psychiatrist and took prescription medication for a year because trauma from the assault had left her suicidal.

After Mangum graduated from high school in 1996, McNeill, then her fiance, encouraged her to join the Navy because she wanted to "see the world," he told various news outlets. She began her two-year active duty in the summer of 1997, marrying McNeill, who is 14 years her senior, in the fall of that year. She was trained to operate radios in Virginia, then the couple drove out to California where she was stationed on an ammunition ship. But she was frequently at sea, leading to ruptures in the marriage. On June 16, 1998, she accused her husband of taking her into a wooded area and threatening to kill her, which he has denied doing. When she failed to appear at a court hearing, the complaint was dismissed. The two separated after 17 months of marriage, and that same year, Mangum was discharged from the Navy, pregnant by a sailor she has begun a relationship with. That man would have another child with her as well, but that relationship wouldn't last.

By 2002, Mangum seems to have given up her dreams of seeing the world. She was back in her hometown, trying to get a job as a stripper. In June 2002, she was arrested on a multitude of charges while working at a topless dance club called Diamond Girls. According to police, she removed a customer's keys to his taxicab while giving him a lap dance, then stole the taxi while he was in the bathroom. Police chased her at speeds up to 70 miles per hour — frequently in the wrong lane — and when an officer tried to approach her, she barely missed running him over, and struck his patrol car instead. She tried to escape again, but a flat tire ended the second leg of her getaway. Finally in custody, she was found to have a blood-alcohol content of 0.19 (the state limit is 0.08). While being questioned, Mangum passed out and was taken to a hospital.

In the end, Mangum had racked up 10 charges, including driving while impaired, driving with a revoked license (her license has been suspended three times), eluding police, reckless driving, failure to heed a siren and lights, assault on an officer and larceny of a motor vehicle. In 2003, she pleaded guilty to four misdemeanors: larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and DWI. She served three weekends in jail, was placed on two years' probation and paid $4,200 in restitution and court fees.

But the portrait of an out-of-control, unstable woman with a drinking problem isn't accurate, according to relatives, who have described Mangum as a hardworking single mom running herself ragged trying to support her children and improve her life. In 2004, she earned an associate's degree from Durham Technical Community College. At the time of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations, she was in her second year as a full-time student at North Carolina Central University, studying police psychology and maintaining a 3.0 average. She had at some point held jobs working at a nursing facility and at a $10.50-an-hour assembly-line job making catalytic reducers.

But it wasn't a happy life.

Sometime in the last two years, according to her parents, Mangum suffered a mental breakdown and was taken to a hospital in Raleigh. They said they didn't know what caused the breakdown but said she felt burdened by mounting debts. In 2003, she went to court to force the father of her children to pay child support (the court sided with her and ordered $400 from his monthly paycheck to go to child support). In 2006, Mangum was working as a stripper in at least one club and for one service. She was adamant that she never worked as a prostitute, and told police that in only one instance did she have sex with a customer, a man she thought was "nice." According to employees of clubs she worked at, she was known as a problem dancer, frequently clashing with customers and other dancers and often passing out. At least one of the club workers, however, said he never saw Mangum drink while working.

As time went on, her romantic life didn't get more stable, either. According to reports, Mangum said she'd had sex with at least three men in the days leading up to the Duke lacrosse incident, including her boyfriend and two of the men who drove her to dancing gigs. Somewhere around this time, she again became pregnant. She gave birth to a premature girl in January 2007.

But the greatest upheaval in Mangum's life was to come on March 13, 2006. That's when she and 31-year-old Kim Roberts were hired to perform a striptease at the off-campus lacrosse house on North Buchanan Blvd. near Duke.

Now that all charges against the three players she accused have been dropped, it remains to be seen whether Mangum herself will be the target of any legal retribution on behalf of the players' families.
Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265374,00.html
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:52 AM   #387
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Replying to an old post here, but this comment is GROSSLY unethical and inappropriate. If such a prosecutor made a comment during a trial, it would be grounds for an immediate mistrial, no questions asked. Saying it at a public press conference is just insanity. Everyone has a right to be represented by an attorney, and a right against self-incrimination. For a DA to infer guilty via the exercise of either of these rights sets our country back decades.

Decades?

More like centuries.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:32 AM   #388
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Decades?

More like centuries.

Actually, both. On the federal level, the right to an attorney and right against self-incrimination are in the Consitution; however, they were only specifically applied to the states in cases from the 1960s which held, among other rights, that the US Bill of Rights was incorporated into the 14th amendment and thus applicable to the states as well as the feds.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:54 AM   #389
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Eons.
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Old 04-12-2007, 11:47 AM   #390
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Eons.

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Old 04-12-2007, 03:34 PM   #391
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All good is good in the world now. Mr. Nifong has apologized to the players. We can all move on now right?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/04/12/la....ap/index.html

Quote:
DURHAM, North Carolina (AP) -- The local prosecutor who charged three Duke lacrosse players with raping a stripper apologized to the athletes Thursday, acknowledging that the North Carolina attorney general's decision to drop the case was correct.

"To the extent that I made judgments that ultimately proved to be incorrect, I apologize to the three students that were wrongly accused," Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong said in a statement.

On Wednesday, Attorney General Roy Cooper not only dropped all remaining charges against the players Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty and David Evans, but also pronounced the men innocent and said they were the victims of Nifong's "tragic rush to accuse." Cooper branded Nifong a "rogue" prosecutor who was guilty of "overreaching."

"I also understand that whenever someone has been wrongly accused, the harm caused by the accusations might not be immediately undone merely by dismissing them," Nifong said.

"It is my sincere desire that the actions of Attorney General Cooper will serve to remedy any remaining injury that has resulted from these cases."

Nifong refused to answer any questions after handing the statement to an Associated Press reporter outside his office in Durham.

Seligmann's attorney, Jim Cooney, responded bitterly to the apology.

"You can accept an apology from someone who knows all the facts and simply makes an error," Cooney said. "If a person refuses to know all the facts and then makes a judgment, that's far worse -- particularly when that judgment destroys lives."

Nifong faces ethics charges with the North Carolina state bar and could be disbarred if found guilty.

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Old 04-12-2007, 03:46 PM   #392
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All good is good in the world now. Mr. Nifong has apologized to the players. We can all move on now right?

My guess is that this "apology" was mostly in response to a comment made by this week one of the defense team, something to the affect that "an apology from some people might go a long way" (in response to a question about plans to file civil suits).

I suspect Nifong was hoping against hope that he might be one of those people.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:27 PM   #393
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umm normally i consider something an apology when they say thier sorry, and actually say it, not release it in a statement. what he said isnt an apology.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:59 PM   #394
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To the extent that I made judgments that ultimately proved to be incorrect . . .

I love attorneys.
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Old 04-12-2007, 05:25 PM   #395
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I love attorneys.

should there be a smiley there?
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Old 04-12-2007, 05:28 PM   #396
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ESPN Page 2 writer Jemelle Hill apologizes to players

Mentioned strictly FWIW, I don't think I even know who this woman is. Looks like maybe she was part of the Insider package that was recently shifted to free content? (since only her last few columns appear to be available for free while the rest are marked as Insider)
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:45 AM   #397
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Jesse Jackson right after the crime:
Quote:
We know that the two women were abused. The accuser says they were met with racial slurs, and stopped dancing and decided to leave...
The accuser says once they returned, they were separated and she was pushed into a bathroom by three men, strangled, raped, kicked and beaten. The players deny that that happened, but they immediately retained lawyers and stopped talking.

The team was notorious for its gross behavior. 15 of the 47 players had been previously charged with misdemeanors ranging from underage drinking to public urination. Black women; white men. A stripper; and a team blowout. The wealthy white athletes – many from prep schools – of Duke; and the working class woman from historically black North Carolina Central. Race and class and sex. What happened? We don’t know for sure because the Duke players are maintaining a code of silence.

The history of white men and black women – the special fantasies and realities of exploitation – goes back to the nation’s beginning and the arrival of slaves from Africa. The patterns associated with this history arouse fears and evoke too many bad memories.

Jesse Jackson in a statement yesterday:
Quote:
We just hope this traumatic experience for all involved ends with the minimum amount of damage."

What?! He basically fans the flames of racism moments after this happens. Then, once the duke kids are cleared, has the gaul to come out and say that we should look to minimize the damage of the situation?

This is where the media needs to get involved. When the story broke, thousands of reporters were firing microphones and questions at Jackson for his thoughts. Yet, now that all of his assumptions and comments were shown to be way off the mark, where's the media follow ups? At least get a no comment from the guy.
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:47 AM   #398
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Dola, and kudos to the intellectual integrity of the ESPN page 2 writer Hill. I just wish other media efforts that made front page stories about Jackson's "theories" when everyone assumed guilt would do the obvious follow up story now that they are innocent.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:30 PM   #399
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ESPN Page 2 writer Jemelle Hill apologizes to players

Mentioned strictly FWIW, I don't think I even know who this woman is. Looks like maybe she was part of the Insider package that was recently shifted to free content? (since only her last few columns appear to be available for free while the rest are marked as Insider)

I think she's the page 2 columnist who took over when Jason Whitlock departed? It's standard practice for the archived articles to be insider, they did that with Bill Simmons for a while.
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Old 04-14-2007, 12:21 PM   #400
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Reverse the roles. 3 black guys and a white stripper. We would have a different outcome. Those 3 black guys would be in jail right now.
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