New NHL EHM game first impressions

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Make sure you buy the current version: NHL EHM 2005.

The older version is still available out there and still full priced, so make sure to get the 2005 version.

hehe, don't worry, I'll keep my eyes well open. Was it you who got stuck with a copy of last year's version? If so, did you end up getting some store credit?

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Directly to the NHL from junior? Very tough - NHL GM jobs don't turn over frequently, and there'll be a lot of candidates with better reputations than you. The junior-to-NHL career path usually requires some time spent as an AHL GM. Of course, you could always just add a second GM to the game, take over an NHL team with that one (just like you would at the start of the game), and retire your original guy.

Okay, good to know (the difficulty of getting a job, not the second GM, I already knew about that. And it also makes sense, as in the NHL, new coaches don't often come straight from the juniors but also spend some time in a team's farm system before going up...

Originally Posted by JeffR

The Q trade windows in the game are the same as the real ones, if I remember right, so their trading opportunities are a bit more constricted than in the other two junior leagues. As for drafting, the OHL and QMJHL draft 16-year-olds in the spring, who can play full-time the following season. The WHL takes 15-year-olds, so they have to play midget (or Junior A/B) for another year before going full-time in the WHL. New players are generated at age 14-15, depending on region, so you can scout them while they "play" in their background leagues for a season. The background leagues are fleshed-out pretty thoroughly, so most of the Quebec draftees will be from Midget Espoir or the AAA midget league, as in real life, so you wind up with a draft list looking a lot like the real one - http://members.shaw.ca/caldwela/drafts/2005QMJHL.html.

Very interesting. The more I read from you, the more it looks like you, well the people involved with that part of the game anyway, have done a good job of getting the QMJHL setup in particular and the CHL/North American setup in general. Reading about the AAA midget league makes the game even more real to me as I used to be a linesman at the provincial level in that league

Anyway, got the setup file download and I'll install it shortly to give this thing a whirl

Thanks again for the answers...

FM

[sachmo71]

I just finished a season with the new rosters and latest patch in EHM, and it took about 36 hours to finish.

[FrogMan]

one final question, I downloaded the try and buy file from two source: digitalriver and trymedia.

Which one you think I should install?

FM

[sachmo71]

I think mine is trymedia, and i've not had one problem with it.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I just finished a season with the new rosters and latest patch in EHM, and it took about 36 hours to finish.

okay, and what kind of player are you?

I mean, are you a micromanager or kind of in the middle?

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I think mine is trymedia, and i've not had one problem with it.

given DR's general lack of customer support, I'm tempted to go with the trymedia one quite honestly...

FM

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

okay, and what kind of player are you?

I mean, are you a micromanager or kind of in the middle?

FM

Micromanager, but only for my team. I didn't check the progress of my prospects as often as I thought I would, and usually made game day adjustments. I spent a lot of time in scouting and pratice, though. So overall, I would say that I was an average player.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Micromanager, but only for my team. I didn't check the progress of my prospects as often as I thought I would, and usually made game day adjustments. I spent a lot of time in scouting and pratice, though. So overall, I would say that I was an average player.

cool, thanks for the info

FM

[FrogMan]

my trymedia download seems to be at version 2.1.1, filename is "ehm2005setup_v211.exe". From what I read, the latest patch brought this all to 2.1.3. Can I apply the patch on the try and buy version, I mean prior to buying the thing?

FM

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

my trymedia download seems to be at version 2.1.1, filename is "ehm2005setup_v211.exe". From what I read, the latest patch brought this all to 2.1.3. Can I apply the patch on the try and buy version, I mean prior to buying the thing?

FM

I don't know...I'd install the game first, then patch. The worst thing that could happen is you would have to reinstall the demo, right? Make sure you download the right patch! Also, I would recommend downloading the unfake patch from www.ehmtheblueline so that you can have all of the league with their proper names.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

hehe, don't worry, I'll keep my eyes well open. Was it you who got stuck with a copy of last year's version? If so, did you end up getting some store credit?

FM

I took some grief from the store manager for a bit, but he eventually gave me a store credit. They didn't have EHM 2005 at any of the three local Gamestops (although one did have both versions of the soccer game, with the older version being $10 more).

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I don't know...I'd install the game first, then patch. The worst thing that could happen is you would have to reinstall the demo, right? Make sure you download the right patch! Also, I would recommend downloading the unfake patch from www.ehmtheblueline so that you can have all of the league with their proper names.

that's what I did, installed with the file I had, downloaded the 2.1.3 trymedia patch and patched the game. It's still saying "unpurchased" or whatever they say it but it's saying the game is at version 2.1.3.

Started a game with the Quebec Remparts in the QMJHL and man do I feel lost. Overwhelmed could be a better word. The whole week before training camp, well, there's no such thing as a training camp per se in FM/WSM, so about everything I see in the game is new stuff.

I'll also have a lot of reading to do on skill ratings and such, try to get a feel for what is important at what position and on what line. Line, another concept that isn't in football management

That unfake patch, can it be applied after I've started a game or only at the start of a new game. I'm not very far into my game that I could start over, but if it's not necessary, I'll keep going forward after applying that patch. Also, any other thing I should download before I start playing for real? Any recommended skins?

I started the game on August 17 and only got to August 28 or so, watching the first game of the team. We lost it 2-0, getting outshot something like 48 to 30 something. I have no clue if we could have done anything different to prevent the loss or if we were simply outclassed by a better team. I'll have to pay closer attention to stats and form ratings...

FM

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

That unfake patch, can it be applied after I've started a game or only at the start of a new game. I'm not very far into my game that I could start over, but if it's not necessary, I'll keep going forward after applying that patch.

Nope, you'll have to start over, so the game can set up from the database with the changes in it.

[riz]

Originally Posted by Karim

After playing FM, I haven't gone back to EHM but the one thing that is better in EHM is the ability to play as GM-only, without having to coach. That will probably change as the 2-D interface gets to FM levels but for now I enjoy leaving the coach in charge. It also makes for much quicker simming.

I'm still reading the latest posts in this thread, but wanted to comment on this bit here.

The "2D" in the current EHM is not a "2D" as such, its more of a tactical board that just updates every second. So not an actual 2D view. An actual 2D view would be a real-time, fluid moving overview of the rink with the players skating around. And yes, I would love to get EHM into the proper 2D era one day in the future, but even when we go all real-time 2D for the games, there would still always be the option of letting your Head Coach take control of the bench and you could just watch the replays after the game if you wish. No point in taking away a feature widely used by users.

[riz]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I just finished a season with the new rosters and latest patch in EHM, and it took about 36 hours to finish.

For a comparison, I did one season per my day at the stand at E3 last year. So one season took about 6-8 hours to complete going from training camp to the draft. But this was with Head Coach taking control of most games and rather careless management of the team overall with very little micromanagement done

I think I clocked another game some time ago where I just started a new NHL only game and left my assistant in charge as I went on vacation for the whole season. It took about an hour and a half to run through the season this way. Not exactly a "press the button to sim a season" type of game, but there are still ways to get a season worth of stats dumped out in a relatively short period of time if you want

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by riz

No point in taking away a feature widely used by users.

I would probably play WSM more than I do if I could do something similar...but I realize that soccer doesn't (necessarily) split the coach and GM roles the way more traditional American sports do.

I'm already entering my third season of my current EHM career after just about three days thanks to this feature.

[riz]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I would probably play WSM more than I do if I could do something similar...but I realize that soccer doesn't (necessarily) split the coach and GM roles the way more traditional American sports do.

I'm already entering my third season of my current EHM career after just about three days thanks to this feature.

That's the thing right there. In North American hockey, the separation is usually very clear if there is a GM and a head coach at the team (unless the GM is a pre-lockout Glen Sather and has a walkietalkie to the dummy coach on the bench). With hockey in Europe, the GM role is more in the background and leaning more towards the financials of the team, whereas head coaches have a lot more control for example over player acquisitions here.

However, with soccer in Europe, the Manager is responsible for both managing the team by signing players etc. and also for coaching games from the sidelines.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by riz

That's the thing right there. In North American hockey, the separation is usually very clear if there is a GM and a head coach at the team (unless the GM is a pre-lockout Glen Sather and has a walkietalkie to the dummy coach on the bench). With hockey in Europe, the GM role is more in the background and leaning more towards the financials of the team, whereas head coaches have a lot more control for example over player acquisitions here.

However, with soccer in Europe, the Manager is responsible for both managing the team by signing players etc. and also for coaching games from the sidelines.

riz, since it looks like you're around, do you know offhand why I can only offer performance incentives to certain players (it looks like the young kids)?

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

riz, since it looks like you're around, do you know offhand why I can only offer performance incentives to certain players (it looks like the young kids)?

Part of the new CBA:

Performance bonuses will only be permissible for the following types of players: (1) players on entry-level contracts; (2) players signing one-year contracts after returning from long-term injuries (players with 400 or more games who spent 100 or more days on injured reserve in the last year of their most recent contract); and senior veteran players who sign a one-year contract after the age of 35.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Part of the new CBA:

Performance bonuses will only be permissible for the following types of players: (1) players on entry-level contracts; (2) players signing one-year contracts after returning from long-term injuries (players with 400 or more games who spent 100 or more days on injured reserve in the last year of their most recent contract); and senior veteran players who sign a one-year contract after the age of 35.

Well I'll be damned. That's one way to enforce a cap.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Nope, you'll have to start over, so the game can set up from the database with the changes in it.

cool, I'm not too far into my game that I'll download that unfake thingie and will restart.

Speaking of that unfake and ehmtheblueline.com, is this the thing I need to download:
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/index....ileinfo&id=126

Seems like the only one with any mention of unfaking...

Any other update I should apply to my game? Like the Smetana rosters, are they good, or even necessary? They say it's based on the new unfaking database, so I'd assume updating with it must be a good idea but would like some more input...

Thanks in advance.

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by riz

For a comparison, I did one season per my day at the stand at E3 last year. So one season took about 6-8 hours to complete going from training camp to the draft. But this was with Head Coach taking control of most games and rather careless management of the team overall with very little micromanagement done

I think I clocked another game some time ago where I just started a new NHL only game and left my assistant in charge as I went on vacation for the whole season. It took about an hour and a half to run through the season this way. Not exactly a "press the button to sim a season" type of game, but there are still ways to get a season worth of stats dumped out in a relatively short period of time if you want

The "more GM, less coaching" way might be the one I'll take with EHM, as opposed to the way I play FM/WSM. As you say in a later post, the manager in European football is much more of an all-around guy, coaching, directing training, acquiring players whereas I see the GM in North American as the guy at the second floor, bringing in players but not necessarily overseeing everything as far as line changes go for example.

That little switch in perspective could mean a whole new gaming experience with EHM for me, building a team over more seasons than what I do with FM/WSM (I'm up to 2010 with my current Luton Town career)...

FM

[FrogMan]

One thing that irks me right now it the seeming lack of shortcuts in the game, or at least to go back to a previous screen. Maybe I'm missing it, but is the "back" button that you click the only way to go back a screen?

If so, one tiny suggestion for EHM2007 would be to implement the use of the left/right arrows to go back and forth through screens, as well as the commonly known backspace to go back. I love those in FM/WSM.

FM

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

cool, I'm not too far into my game that I'll download that unfake thingie and will restart.

Speaking of that unfake and ehmtheblueline.com, is this the thing I need to download:
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/index....ileinfo&id=126

Seems like the only one with any mention of unfaking...

Any other update I should apply to my game? Like the Smetana rosters, are they good, or even necessary? They say it's based on the new unfaking database, so I'd assume updating with it must be a good idea but would like some more input...

Thanks in advance.

FM

This is what you need. You can then download the latest roster pack to get the players on the right team. Also, I enjoyed the facepacks and logopacks as well, but if you want to get right into the game, you can skip these.

[FrogMan]

One thing I'll really have to get used is the trading for players part. I'm so used to FM/WSM and the transfer market where I simply offer money and get a player if I can afford him that I'm kind of lost now. Yeah, kinda weird for a North American dude to say that but that's how it is after playing so many hours of FM.

Also, my last experience with trading was in single player FOF almost two years ago and I had implemented that house rule of never instigating trade talks by fear I would take advantage of the AI. Now with EHM, how's the AI as far as trades go? I know the AI won't take a bad offer in FM, is it as good in EHM? Can I go out and try to make offer without fear of taking advantage of a 10 year old GM? I hope you understand what I mean, no offense to 10yo GM out there and FOF has probably gotten much better with the last few patches but I always felt like it was too easy to offer some washed out players I didn't need in exchange or relatively good draft picks...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

This is what you need. You can then download the latest roster pack to get the players on the right team. Also, I enjoyed the facepacks and logopacks as well, but if you want to get right into the game, you can skip these.

good and by the rosters pack, you mean the Smetana one or another one?

As for facepacks and logopacks, is it like FM/WSM in that I can install them at any point in a career and they will show up anyway?

FM

[sachmo71]

The trade AI is pretty good with EHM. They know what their teams need, and if you offer them crap, you get crap back. Try offering some scrub and a draft pick for Martin St. Louis, and watch what happens.

Btw, the AI *WILL* try to screw you in certain instances..make sure you know what your needs are (Roster-Set Team Needs; your coach will tell you what you need) and you should be fine.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

good and by the rosters pack, you mean the Smetana one or another one?

As for facepacks and logopacks, is it like FM/WSM in that I can install them at any point in a career and they will show up anyway?

FM

Snetana is the best. I think pictures will show up at any point after you put them in the game.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

The trade AI is pretty good with EHM. They know what their teams need, and if you offer them crap, you get crap back. Try offering some scrub and a draft pick for Martin St. Louis, and watch what happens.

Btw, the AI *WILL* try to screw you in certain instances..make sure you know what your needs are (Roster-Set Team Needs; your coach will tell you what you need) and you should be fine.

Good to know, I get the feel that it's similar to FM in that case because, well, the AI has tried to screw me quite a few times in FM Offered me $2M for a player valued at $75k, except the offer was for $0 up front and that sweet $2M once he'd scored 20 goals for them... hah!

FM

[FrogMan]

dola, and I hired an assistant GM with the Quebec Remparts yesterday, after seeing how other Q teams were making offers left and right for assistant GMs. I thought I needed one but I'm not too sure what their use is. I don't see a team report as in FM so I'm thinking the assistant GM is only for the show...

FM

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Part of the new CBA:

Performance bonuses will only be permissible for the following types of players: (1) players on entry-level contracts; (2) players signing one-year contracts after returning from long-term injuries (players with 400 or more games who spent 100 or more days on injured reserve in the last year of their most recent contract); and senior veteran players who sign a one-year contract after the age of 35.

Thanks, Jeff!

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

dola, and I hired an assistant GM with the Quebec Remparts yesterday, after seeing how other Q teams were making offers left and right for assistant GMs. I thought I needed one but I'm not too sure what their use is. I don't see a team report as in FM so I'm thinking the assistant GM is only for the show...

FM

You need the assistant GM to see the team report in EHM, so it's definitely not just for show.

Pick one up if you can immediately. The team report comes in very handy and has a lot of great info.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

You need the assistant GM to see the team report in EHM, so it's definitely not just for show.

Pick one up if you can immediately. The team report comes in very handy and has a lot of great info.

Now that I read in the manual where to get the team report, I agree.

That was my biggest problem, I couldn't find the darn team report until I saw it in the manual, heh.... I'll look into it tonight.

Thanks for the info though.

FM

[General Mike]

I got my CD copy in the mail today I had been playing the demo for the past week or so, so once I patch I'll try to resume the career I started.

[General Mike]

Dola, how do I know if I have the NA version or the European?

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

General - You have the "European". You need to get the "PC CDrom" 2.1.3 patch:http://www.sigames.com/downloads.php...d=360&file=417

I assume by demo you mean you were playing the "Try & Buy".. I dont know if these saves are compatible with the CD-rom game.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Bea-Arthurs Hip

I assume by demo you mean you were playing the "Try & Buy".. I dont know if these saves are compatible with the CD-rom game.

Should be able to, I think the only time saves were broken was between the European boxed version and the North American update. The try and buy should be updated to the latter.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by General Mike

I got my CD copy in the mail today I had been playing the demo for the past week or so, so once I patch I'll try to resume the career I started.

GM, don't know if you know about this, but I came upon a walkthrough guide over at the ehmblueline site. Read some part of it at lunch and wow, it's got some interesting information, stuff that will certainly help me getting started.

Anyway, here's a link to it:
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/index....=fileinfo&id=2

I know it was mentionned earlier in the thread but felt it was worth mentionning again. It's a pretty big download, some 69 pages in all in a pdf format...

FM

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

GM, don't know if you know about this, but I came upon a walkthrough guide over at the ehmblueline site. Read some part of it at lunch and wow, it's got some interesting information, stuff that will certainly help me getting started.

Anyway, here's a link to it:
http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/index....=fileinfo&id=2

I know it was mentionned earlier in the thread but felt it was worth mentionning again. It's a pretty big download, some 69 pages in all in a pdf format...

FM

Thanks for the link FrogMan. Will check it out tonight.

[FrogMan]

okay, here's a weird player for you. When looking around for possible addition to my Quebec Remparts in the QMJHL offseason, I came upon this dude:


As you can see, he's supposedly 18 with some interesting skills as possibly a 3rd or 4th line defenseman, adding some depth. Thing is, look at his history screen:


He seems to have been playing since 1995-96 or when he was about 9 or so, IN THE WHL!!!

He then went on to play in the CIAU (Canadian College hockey) at age 14. Welcome aboard Dr Doogie

Talk about an early talent

FM

[sachmo71]

probably a researcher error. it happens.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

probably a researcher error. it happens.

Oh, I know it happens. I'm sure there are some with FM too but I would probably have less of a chance to spot them. Same with misspelling of player's names. There is a Andrew Andricopoulos with the Remparts in real life. In the game, his name is spelled Andricopolous. Tiny thing but it drove me crazy until I checked with the local paper to make sure I was right


FM

[FrogMan]

Okay, I am very late in giving my first impressions, but what can I do, I'm very late getting into the game

Anyway, what strikes me as VERY well done in the game is the fleshing out of the players via scouting. I'm very impressed with the scouting reports. All the tidbits you get in there, just wow. The skill evalutations, the "who's he like" part, the "where would he fit in the team now" and the "what could he develop into for us in the future" are just very well done.

I have no clue if they are accurate, but they are very well done and really help getting an idea as to if I want to pursue that player or not.

As stated before, I manage the Quebec Remparts in the QMJHL, so I sent three of my scouts to find potential talents: one for the QMJHL entry draft of next year, one for the CHL import draft and also one to the Midget AAA league. Kinda neat to see reports about 14 and 15yo that are already seen as similar to some NHLers.

Don't know if managing a CHL team has been discussed much in here (maybe I should read the first 7 pages of this thread at one point ) but I found the start of our season to be an interesting experience. Our top 5 players missed the first two games of the season while being away on tryouts to various NHL teams. At the same time, we had our #1 and #2 centers suspended for the first game of the regular seasons after incidents in the last two exhibition games, talk about harsh...

We started the season with a 2nd place overall predicition and five games into the season, we're 4-1 with our one loss coming to our arch nemesis Chicoutimi.

So far, I'm enjoying the game very much. Don't know much about what makes the lines work, but I'm guessing this'll come over time, as it did with tactics in FM/WSM. The tactics are a bit stricter with hockey than with soccer/football though, in the sense that you don't have a gazillion formations that you can choose from, so I'll have to learn what instructions work and who plays well with who...

FM

[riz]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

Okay, I am very late in giving my first impressions, but what can I do, I'm very late getting into the game

Anyway, what strikes me as VERY well done in the game is the fleshing out of the players via scouting. I'm very impressed with the scouting reports. All the tidbits you get in there, just wow. The skill evalutations, the "who's he like" part, the "where would he fit in the team now" and the "what could he develop into for us in the future" are just very well done.

I have no clue if they are accurate, but they are very well done and really help getting an idea as to if I want to pursue that player or not.

FM

Thanks for the feedback.

We've actually rewritten parts of the scouting reports for the next game, trying to make them more lifelike and have more variations. And while I remember, I'll have to thank these forums for the "who's he like" feature in the scouting reports, as it was on these very forums where someone once posted something along the lines of "if someone ever makes scouting reports in a text-sim compare the player to an existing player, that would be so cool" or something...and naturally I just had to take it as a challenge and code it in

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by riz

Thanks for the feedback.

We've actually rewritten parts of the scouting reports for the next game, trying to make them more lifelike and have more variations. And while I remember, I'll have to thank these forums for the "who's he like" feature in the scouting reports, as it was on these very forums where someone once posted something along the lines of "if someone ever makes scouting reports in a text-sim compare the player to an existing player, that would be so cool" or something...and naturally I just had to take it as a challenge and code it in

no problem on the feedback. Sounds cool on the new features. Looks like I've just found two games that will alternate about eveyr six months in my playing rotation (FM/WSM is the other one in case anybody was wondering, hehe)

While I got you here, I'll repeat my one tiny suggestion. It's regarding navigabilty in the game. I'm almost certain you have probably already coded this in for next version, but you have to implement some use of the keayboard arrows and/or shortcuts to make it easier to go back one screen. That's my one complaint so far. The rest, where the stuff is located, I can get used to. But having click the "back" button to simply go back a screen instead of the left arrow on the keyboard, or even the good old backspace, well it's annoying. Not a game killer, nowhere close, just annoying.

FM

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

no problem on the feedback. Sounds cool on the new features. Looks like I've just found two games that will alternate about eveyr six months in my playing rotation (FM/WSM is the other one in case anybody was wondering, hehe)

While I got you here, I'll repeat my one tiny suggestion. It's regarding navigabilty in the game. I'm almost certain you have probably already coded this in for next version, but you have to implement some use of the keayboard arrows and/or shortcuts to make it easier to go back one screen. That's my one complaint so far. The rest, where the stuff is located, I can get used to. But having click the "back" button to simply go back a screen instead of the left arrow on the keyboard, or even the good old backspace, well it's annoying. Not a game killer, nowhere close, just annoying.

FM

This is absolutely essential. Lack of keyboard shortcuts actually makes this game hard to play for me.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Wait, does FM have keyboard shortcuts besides pressing the space bar? I never touch the keyboard when I play FM, so it's not a problem for me with EHM. I use the mouse exclusively. Wow, I guess I learned something today.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Wait, does FM have keyboard shortcuts besides pressing the space bar? I never touch the keyboard when I play FM, so it's not a problem for me with EHM. I use the mouse exclusively. Wow, I guess I learned something today.

oh, absolutely. It used to have the usual MSIE alt-left arrow to go back (or backspace too) but they have now added the simple use of the left and right arrows to go back and forth respectively. Very, VERY useful when looking at numerous players one after another. Right hand on the mouse, left hand on the arrows to go back...

FM

[Graeme Kelly]

I'll be looking into using left and right arrows for back/next in EHM 2007. I'd tend to agree that it should be the same as the Internet Explorer (and presumably other Windows applications?) shortcuts - but I think some form of SI standard would supercede those so I'll likely stick with the FM way. I've already added the function keys to move between different screens like in FM too.

You should get an Intellimouse - the back/next buttons work in EHM 2005 and in FM2006; much easier than the arrow keys. Thinking of making the mousewheel click do a continue game, but if I do that then I'll need to add a setting in the preferences page to turn it off since some might be prone to accidental clicks ;-)