01-17-2010, 07:23 PM | #351 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
Look at a fan who doesn't give a damn about either team: You have jack ass Rex Ryan vs. jack ass Rivers. The only way this would work out for us is if the winner of this game gets their asses kicked next week. I think the Colts beat the Jets, so is should work out for most of us who don't care about either team Manning, Brees, Favre. . Sanchez. Sanchez played well, but it's still funny seeing his name there. Could both Warner and Favre play their last game in the Superdome? |
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01-17-2010, 07:23 PM | #352 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
Wait...so before Katrina, they never supported the team, but now they're supporting it famously so they're a great fanbase? I'm not so sure about that. A great fanbase will always have been a great fanbase. The Packers fans...that's a great fanbase. How about the Skins? How long have they sucked or blown it? But they have a waiting list a mile wide. Now, I'm not saying the support for the Saints since Katrina as you have shown isn't fantastic--it is. But there's a long way to go there, IMO, before we start elevating this into one of the all time best fanbases or most deserving. It seems to this coincides rather nicely with the Saints actually winning, another relatively recent "tradition". So maybe it's more a fair weather thing, too. And this comes from a guy who is ardently supporting the Saints. I'm a big Brees fan; I think he's fantastic, and I do want to see something good happen for the city of New Orleans.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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01-17-2010, 07:25 PM | #353 |
College Starter
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01-17-2010, 07:26 PM | #354 |
Dark Cloud
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I just want the Jets to make a Super Bowl. 1967 was such a long time ago, goodness.
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01-17-2010, 07:31 PM | #355 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Federal Way, WA
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Quote:
The Saints fanbase before the storm in terms of overall support (TV ratings, ticket sales compared to wins/economic conditions, ect) was very good, just not epic-great. Some games got blacked out during the bad years. Saints fans sold out the dome with the huge waiting list after the 2005 Katrina year, following a 3 win season. There was always a big connection between New Orleans and the Saints, Katrina (and not winning games), just pushed it into the extreme levels. Last edited by Tigercat : 01-17-2010 at 07:33 PM. |
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01-17-2010, 07:33 PM | #356 |
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01-17-2010, 07:33 PM | #357 |
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01-17-2010, 07:34 PM | #358 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
Didn't you say that before Katrina, they had never even come close to selling out their season tickets? That doesn't even sound very good.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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01-17-2010, 07:37 PM | #359 |
Grizzled Veteran
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__________________
Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table. |
01-17-2010, 07:38 PM | #360 | |
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Quote:
Few cities sell out a years worth of tickets in the form of season tickets. New Orleans has been an economic wasteland since the oil bust of the 80s. Even before Katrina the Saints had the highest local TV viewership in the NFL, even if they ticket sales weren't always great. After Katrina it isn't even close when it comes to TV numbers. Last edited by Tigercat : 01-17-2010 at 07:38 PM. |
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01-17-2010, 07:41 PM | #361 |
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01-17-2010, 07:42 PM | #362 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
But you were using it as a seeming basis for the difference in support before and after, and the point of your info seemed to be to suggest there wasn't much support for the team before Katrina. Right now, you're backing up so fast on that, you should be beeping like a cross-country hauler.
__________________
. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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01-17-2010, 07:42 PM | #363 |
Head Coach
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01-17-2010, 07:53 PM | #364 |
FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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The Vikes lined up and kicked our Cowboys ass. They looked like a team that wanted to play in a Super Bowl. Fine job by them, and I had no problem at all with the TD at the end of the game.
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
01-17-2010, 07:54 PM | #365 | ||
College Starter
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Quote:
There is a difference, I thought I made it clear when I said Quote:
A few blackouts during poor years for a poor franchise in a poor city does not define a totally uninvested fan base to me, although it may to you. The state of Louisiana before the storm had 2 fortune 500 companies, Wisconsin has 10, Maryland has 8, the small area of DC has 3. (New Orleans itself has 1.) After Katrina the ticket situation changed as more people started putting an insane percentage of their disposable income towards the Saints. Insane TV ratings remained. (As an aside: the other NFL city that ALWAYS does well in TV ratings? Pittsburgh.) But again to make it clear, I am not saying Saints are awesome fans. I am not saying they are deserving. I am saying the city is right now more invested in this team than any other NFL city. That may not be the case in 5 years, that probably wasn't the case 5 years ago. But it is so since Katrina. Saints are the booze of the city, even in the last couple of years when the team was mediocre overall. |
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01-17-2010, 07:58 PM | #366 | |
General Manager
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Location: The Mountains
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Quote:
I did a quick search for this kind of data, but couldn't find anything. But it's not surprising that smaller markets would have higher TV ratings (though not higher gross viewership). There's gotta be a higher % of local team fans in places like New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Green Bay vs. New York, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston, places that have more transplants, immigrants, people who don't know what football is. Last edited by molson : 01-17-2010 at 07:59 PM. |
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01-17-2010, 08:00 PM | #367 | |
Pro Rookie
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I don't use hair gel. |
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01-17-2010, 08:04 PM | #368 | |
College Starter
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Location: Federal Way, WA
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Quote:
No doubt that plays a part. But in talking about connections between fans and fanbases, it is hard to measure people who can't watch their teams or go to the games because they are transplanted. The last numbers I saw were on the Saints site in December, Saints were tops in their local market with Pitt second. Saints Patriots was the highest local market game in the NFL this year at that time. |
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01-17-2010, 08:07 PM | #369 | ||
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
I think my problem is that you were originally responding to Lathum saying no fanbase "wants" it anymore than any other, and your response included the following: Quote:
It is to this sentiment that I pointed out fanbases with far greater resumes--i.e. the Packers, the Skins, etc. The Saints' support, by your own admission, seems to be fairly recent, for all of its now high level of devotion. Your point was to make a case for why it would mean more to New Orleans, and you based it on a resume of support and connection. But it seems to me that other fanbases have a far greater level of support built over a far longer period of time, and you can't tell me the Green Bay area, for instance, has any less of a connection to its team than the Saints do. You set out your hypothesis (means more to New Orleans) and the supporting reasons (resume of support and connection). I am pointing out other fanbases have a greater resume of support and connection, ergo your hypothesis would seemingly be incorrect.
__________________
. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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01-17-2010, 08:10 PM | #370 |
College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Out of Grad School Hell :)
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So, does Norv Turner get fired now?
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01-17-2010, 08:13 PM | #371 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Federal Way, WA
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Quote:
I think your definition of connection and how to measure it is flawed, at least in my mind. If a higher percentage of local disposable income goes towards the team NOW (NOW = recent years, not necessarily this year) and a higher percentage of the city watches the games NOW, to me that city is more connected to that team NOW. Its as simple as that to me. By talking about long time support/resumes (which I would argue the Saints have had as well, but is not pertinent to my point either way) I fear you are getting into the realm of deserving and not of current want/connection. Damn semantics. |
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01-17-2010, 08:16 PM | #372 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: May 2006
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Don't mind if Turner stays (he didn't commit the stupid penalties or miss the kicks), but I think it's time to let LT go (if he doesn't retire). One bummed Charger fan... |
01-17-2010, 08:18 PM | #373 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
You aren't concerned that Norv just doesn't have what it takes to ever get his teams ready for the playoffs? |
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01-17-2010, 08:26 PM | #374 |
Head Coach
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01-17-2010, 08:29 PM | #375 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
It comes down to how to measure that connection then, or how to determine what establishes meaning to a fanbase. I just don't agree that your case for it meaning more to New Orleans than other cities/fanbases is all that clear cut.
__________________
. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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01-17-2010, 08:30 PM | #376 | |
H.S. Freshman Team
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Quote:
This game was really the only time they weren't ready under him for a playoff game. Even still, I really don't blame Norv for this. 2 missed makeable field goals, one fluke INT, numerous drops. Only issue I had was it seemed the O took way too much time to get the plays in, so there were way too many false start penalties/delay of games in the first half that kept the O from getting into a rhythm. This game was on the players, not the coach - I mean, it wasn't like Norv went for it on 4th and 11 from the 30 in the first quarter (I'm looking at you, Marty...altho Nate would have probably missed the FG in that NE game, anyway). |
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01-17-2010, 08:32 PM | #377 | |
College Prospect
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Quote:
I've seen some of the ladies he "hangs out" with. I'll take those sloppy seconds. |
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01-17-2010, 08:42 PM | #378 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
I hear ya. But can you really put that squarely on the shoulders of the head coach? I guess you will probably say yes. Me, I've been impressed with Norv's preparation, play calling, and mid-game adjustments since the 2-3 start. Today I saw the Chargers choke, and I won't deny that they didn't look as fired up as I would have wanted them to look. The Turner-haters are going to have a field day with this one, and I was feeling the same way after last years exit from the playoffs, but not this year. I just can't pin this one on him. After watching him now for a few years here in San Diego I think he's a good fit for the team. I'm interested to know what exactly you think a head coach can do to get professional football players ready for the playoffs that they aren't already doing for themselves? A pep talk? Let them know the game is important and not make stupid penalties? Tell the kicker not to miss? What's Turner not doing? What is the "magic in the bottle" that Turner doesn't have? The Jets wanted the game more today, and the Charger players got caught looking ahead. That's what it came down to IMO, not Turner. |
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01-17-2010, 08:59 PM | #379 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Could not disagree more. SD played not to lose the game today...pure coaching. They didn't want to make a mistake, make Sanchez beat them, etc. The problem is that's exactly what the Jets wanted them to do. Gates should have gone for 200 yards today with a bunch of 15 yard receptions across the middle like they did in the 1st quarter and then they quit. Either the Jets closed that up and opened something else up that SD didn't take advantage of, or Turner was a moron. The dude's a horrible coach. He has a boatload of talent which will show itself in a 16 game season. Playoffs are about coaching, motivation, and making adjustments, and San Diego failed all 3. If Indy isn't careful next week, the Jets will do the same thing. Indy needs to go into that game with an FU attitude and just put the petal to the metal from start to finish. Get up on the Jets big and know they can't come back. These teams who are playing not to lose and hoping Sanchez will beat the Jets are being stupid. They play right into their hands. |
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01-17-2010, 09:02 PM | #380 | |
College Starter
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Location: Midwest
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Quote:
That may not be saying much, though at least Caldwell seems to have gotten them ready this year. It just seems like the Chargers do well in the playoffs when no one expects them to, but they can't handle the pressure of being the favorite. |
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01-17-2010, 09:06 PM | #381 |
Dark Cloud
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I always confuse Super Bowl I and Super Bowl III. I don't know why, but I do. In any case, I wouldn't underestimate the fact that -- Curtis Painter notwithstanding -- the Jets have had the recent experience of going into Indianapolis and beating the Colts. They again, have nothing to lose. I'm proud of them making it this far, honestly. |
01-17-2010, 09:11 PM | #382 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
How does coaching or motivating or making adjustments lead to Gates not dropping the ball multiple times, LT playing well, Weddle making a tackle, or Kaeding making a kick? The Jets played a solid game, and the Chargers had a game plan to beat them, they just didn't execute. Why should the coach be any more accountable than the players when it comes down to execution? These guys get paid too much money to come out that flat, with or without a motivational head coach. |
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01-17-2010, 09:12 PM | #383 | |
High School Varsity
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Quote:
Yep, nail on the head with that statement! |
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01-17-2010, 09:26 PM | #384 |
High School Varsity
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01-17-2010, 09:30 PM | #385 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkeley
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This worked out well for the Colts. I'm sure there are a lot of Colts players who desperately wanted another shot at taking on the Jets at full strength.
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01-17-2010, 09:40 PM | #386 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
This year. Pittsburgh won the local ratings title again last year however. (Just to emphasize that this is a one off thing with a team that started 13-0, not some major post-Katrina trend or something)
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01-17-2010, 09:40 PM | #387 |
Coordinator
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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LT wasn't moving his hips towards another 6.
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01-17-2010, 10:00 PM | #388 |
Coordinator
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01-17-2010, 10:03 PM | #389 |
Coordinator
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01-17-2010, 10:07 PM | #390 | |
Head Coach
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I was just in Manitowoc last weekend, and I'm pretty sure they didn't move that to Minnesota! Or is the location out of date? |
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01-17-2010, 10:08 PM | #391 |
High School Varsity
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01-17-2010, 10:16 PM | #392 |
Hall Of Famer
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Location: Chicago, IL
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My only hope for the games next week is no Vikings victory. I don't think I can handle 2 weeks of Favre Super Bowl pre-game. New Orleans vs anyone although I think the Colts would make a fun matchup.
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01-17-2010, 10:20 PM | #393 | |
Head Coach
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I was hoping for no Vikes victory today for the same reason. I didn't want potentially three weeks of Favre talk on the radio. Blah. |
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01-17-2010, 10:41 PM | #394 | |
Strategy Moderator
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Location: North Carolina
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Yeah, clearly this is already a success. But the 1998 AFC Championship game loss still haunts me. Wouldn't mind seeing them make (even if they lose) a Super Bowl now (even though i care about 3% as much as a did a few years ago). |
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01-17-2010, 10:54 PM | #395 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Saints -- Colts
Only way the Super Bowl lead up is even watchable. |
01-17-2010, 11:19 PM | #396 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tennessee
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San Diego choked when they let Brees go and kept Rivers.
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01-18-2010, 05:17 AM | #397 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Edinburg,TX
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My wrap up of the weekend that no one cares to read but I will post anyways.
1. Suck it Cowboy bandwagon fans! Got tired of seeing these people wearing their jersey out and about, now they can go into hiding again. My favorite though are the people who are wearing their jersey and are NOT even watching the game while it is on! Did soccer registration this weekend at Academy and was there while the Cowboy game was on. Dumbass people walking in wearing jerseys non-stop while the game just started...then in the second quarter....then the third quarter....then the flood of them who probably were watching the game and then left during the fourth quarter. My favorite though were the couple walking in and buying Cowboys gear in the middle of the game which I wanted to tell them to forget it because they were down 17-3 but it was too funny. 2. Congrats Vikings, looks like you finally brought in the right former Packers to make another run. Longwell, Sharper, now Favre. Some of your key players over the years lately have been from Green Bay. You people are more Green Bay fans then you know. 3. Happy for the Jets. Hey San Diego, looks like getting rid of Marty Ball really was the thing to put you over the top. Bravo! 4. Missed most of the Cards-Saints game. That surprised me. Maybe going out against the Cards the way the Pack did was better then going out like that against the Saints. I hope the Saints win against the Vikes, though that is because I am a Packer fan and don't want to see them go any farther. I am actually glad the Vikes slapped the Cowboys for one more TD. 5. Eh, the Colts, eh. Same old thing there I guess.
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You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose! Last edited by Cringer : 01-18-2010 at 05:22 AM. |
01-18-2010, 12:03 PM | #398 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Chargers beat themselves yesterday. The problems with the O-line run blocking shined brightly as well and then the Chargers also morphed into the Raiders with all of the personal foul penalties. Then, the most accurate kicker in the NFL, all of sudden turns into Steve Sax. Great timing Kaeding. Consider this a late christmas present Jets.
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01-18-2010, 12:09 PM | #399 | |
Grizzled Veteran
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Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
Haha! For running a play action pass on 4th and 3 with 2 minutes left they are jinxed huh? Lets explore their options. A. Go for it B. Kick a FG, Would this have running it in as well since the odds of making 3 points are 99 percent from this spot in the field while going for it made the success rate around 35-40 percent? C. Kneel on it I wish they wouldnt have scored but I dont see options B or C as better options. I cant think of too many teams in the history of the NFL that started kneeling down when the other team was going to get the ball back with 2 minutes left. In other words the Vikings made the same decision any other team in the NFL would have. It's not the Vikings fault that the Cowboys gave a token effort late in the game. If anything the football gods will turn on them for quitting. If the game was over why was Dallas taking timeouts earlier in that same series? If they dont take them timeouts the clock runs out before the Vikings score again so we arent even talking about it. This pretty much suns up what I think of whole deal. Video: Vikings throw late TD in blowout, Brooking goes after Favre - Shutdown Corner - NFL Blog - Yahoo! Sports Last edited by jbergey22 : 01-18-2010 at 02:06 PM. |
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01-18-2010, 12:15 PM | #400 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Or worse yet 2 weeks of Favre Old team vs Favre New Team if the Jets/Vikings make it to the Super Bowl. I think my head might explode from it if that happens. |
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