Alright boyz, here we go!!! Civ 5 first impressions & tips thread!

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

For those that are wondering how this game typically plays or wondering that the commotion has been about, read Sulla'a walkthrough and review. He was the one that did the famous early walkthrough when Civ4 had just come out (and taught a lot of us how to play).

American Empire

Reading through this thing right now and to be honest, this guy should quit playing this game. It is too easy for him it seems. I am also pretty sure he has called me stupid a few times as well.

[SirFozzie]

reminds me of the No Mutants Allowed reaction to Fallout 3:

"You changed it, thus it sucks."

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

reminds me of the No Mutants Allowed reaction to Fallout 3:

"You changed it, thus it sucks."

A lot of his comments do come off as that. Some of his comments I agree with though, like the one unit per tile should be for military only. I hate not have multiple workers on a tile. It is also a touch annoying that cities can work so many tiles now, yet they will never come close to being that big, or even as big as I would get them in Civ IV.

[Big Fo]

I would like cow, wheat, deer, and other food bonus tiles to be more valuable, that would help with city growth.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I would like cow, wheat, deer, and other food bonus tiles to be more valuable, that would help with city growth.

Agreed. That was one of his points as well. Like I said, he makes some pretty valid points (like that one). Overall though it seems like the guy only plays the game to rip it a new asshole because it is so easy for him. I admit I am taking away a few things from it though, because he talks about how easy it it yet I am pretty sure in my current Prince level game I don't have a very solid chance of winning. I know I have not adapted to this version yet, this will help a little.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Somebody just got a new laptop for his birthday with plenty of horsepower to run Civ5.

Of course, it's for business use.

**giggle**

[Passacaglia]

For some reason, I thought the manual said the one unit per tile was for military only.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

For some reason, I thought the manual said the one unit per tile was for military only.

I haven't been able to stack workers, but I have been able to stack one military and one civilian unit.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, you're right:

Units are subject to “Stacking” limitations – two military
units may not end their turn in the same hex, nor
can two non-military units, but one military and one
non-military unit may end their turn stacked in the
same hex.

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So far I have found the militaristic city-states to be pretty under-whelming.

Eh, my experience is a bit yes and no.

Sometimes they can give you some pretty crappy units, like a scout. Why would I want a scout? Idiots.

However when they're actually giving you decent units, like when they were giving me cannons, then it's not quite so bad. Could still be much better.

It would be better if they either provide some other smaller bonus (aside from resources) or if the units they provided were in some way unique. Perhaps they could cost slightly less or something, I don't know.

I had several cultural city states providing over half my culture, and I was able to develop some very large cities thanks to maritime ones.

Militaristic though, one decent (or worse) unit every twenty turns or so...for the money you're spending? Eh.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

Eh, my experience is a bit yes and no.

Sometimes they can give you some pretty crappy units, like a scout. Why would I want a scout? Idiots.

However when they're actually giving you decent units, like when they were giving me cannons, then it's not quite so bad. Could still be much better.

It would be better if they either provide some other smaller bonus (aside from resources) or if the units they provided were in some way unique. Perhaps they could cost slightly less or something, I don't know.

I had several cultural city states providing over half my culture, and I was able to develop some very large cities thanks to maritime ones.

Militaristic though, one decent (or worse) unit every twenty turns or so...for the money you're spending? Eh.

Yeah, the issue is that indeed I sometimes do get a nice unit, but even when I do, I still have to pay maintenance on the unit I get so it still costs me. For the gold I pour in, I could just buy the units instead for maybe just a slightly higher cost but with more control of when and where I get it.

[Cringer]

The best way to have a military city-state under your influence would be through completing city-state missions/requests and getting the influence that way instead of paying. SOme of those can set you up for influence over a city-state for a while, then you have some pretty cheap units coming your way. Otherwise, I agree the investment is not worth it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Cringer

The best way to have a military city-state under your influence would be through completing city-state missions/requests and getting the influence that way instead of paying. SOme of those can set you up for influence over a city-state for a while, then you have some pretty cheap units coming your way. Otherwise, I agree the investment is not worth it.

I've sometimes taken the crap units that they have given me and then re-gifted them back to the city state for extra influence. It just ended up being more effort than it was worth. I usually just wait for one of the other city states to ask me to destroy them and then do it.

[gi]

Wife and I are playing a LAN game, having a ton of crashes that freeze either one of our computers...frustrating.

[Buccaneer]

I am now allied with 7 city-states.

[Big Fo]

I am having my most competitive game yet. It is around 1990 AD and the Arabs are the only AI Civ left (I am the French). They have more cities, GNP, and production while I have a bigger population and slightly better tech. They invaded one of the city-states I am allied with so I declared war on them (although they are only a militaristic city-state, Tyre provides me with a ton of oil which I need for tanks and airplanes). For this game I picked a Terra map and we are fighting a war on three different fronts, separated by inland seas, it's pretty fun.

The one thing I don't understand is that the Arab units have a +25% strength bonus for being in friendly territory, but this shows up even when both my unit and his unit begin the battle in my territory. It kind of unbalances things considering that we are at the same technology level.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've sometimes taken the crap units that they have given me and then re-gifted them back to the city state for extra influence. It just ended up being more effort than it was worth. I usually just wait for one of the other city states to ask me to destroy them and then do it.

Could you gift it to a different city-state instead?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Could you gift it to a different city-state instead?

yes, you can gift military units to any city state for a small amount of influence (seems very small)

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by Alan T

yes, you can gift military units to any city state for a small amount of influence (seems very small)

It IS very small, to the point where it's not even worth it.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yeah, the issue is that indeed I sometimes do get a nice unit, but even when I do, I still have to pay maintenance on the unit I get so it still costs me. For the gold I pour in, I could just buy the units instead for maybe just a slightly higher cost but with more control of when and where I get it.

Yeah. The last time I looked in my America game I was getting a unit every 17 turns (though that might have gone down as I progressed an age or two).

During that time, lets say I was making...10 gold per turn. 1700 gold, so yeah I could probably buy a unit of my choosing, or even two. Haven't really bothered purchasing units so I'm not sure what they usually cost.



Also, started a new game (Egypt, One City Challenge) and once again I have one civ blobbing hugely while the other follow at a more sedated pace. In this game it's France, in my last game it was Japan, and in my first game it was Siam. It's always one state that goes wild with expansion.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

During that time, lets say I was making...10 gold per turn. 1700 gold, so yeah I could probably buy a unit of my choosing, or even two. Haven't really bothered purchasing units so I'm not sure what they usually cost.

Depends on which unit and if you have any bonuses to lower the cost. Generally units cost between 200 and 800 gold though.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

It IS very small, to the point where it's not even worth it.



Yeah. The last time I looked in my America game I was getting a unit every 17 turns (though that might have gone down as I progressed an age or two).

During that time, lets say I was making...10 gold per turn. 1700 gold, so yeah I could probably buy a unit of my choosing, or even two. Haven't really bothered purchasing units so I'm not sure what they usually cost.



Also, started a new game (Egypt, One City Challenge) and once again I have one civ blobbing hugely while the other follow at a more sedated pace. In this game it's France, in my last game it was Japan, and in my first game it was Siam. It's always one state that goes wild with expansion.

How does the one city challenge go? Is there anyway to keep up with other civs while having just one city? Do you have go aggresive to keep the other civs down?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How does the one city challenge go? Is there anyway to keep up with other civs while having just one city? Do you have go aggresive to keep the other civs down?

Are you able to at least puppet any cities you conquer, or must you raze them?

[Buccaneer]

You must raze them as you cannot control, even partially, more than one city. I think the main thing in OCC is to be strong enough to hold on to what you got (since you are building a very large, valuable city). Also you have to be prepared to prevent another civ from winning if they are close.

[chesapeake]

What happens if you are forced to take an enemy capital?

[Galaril]

Also, how do we get allies or city states to give us units?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

What happens if you are forced to take an enemy capital?

I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Galaril

Also, how do we get allies or city states to give us units?

Militaristic city states will give you a unit every 17 turns or so if allied. Other allied city states will give one on a occassion if they are really happy with you (I got a general without even fighting). From civs, I don't know, may be via the trade dialog?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm not sure.



Militaristic city states will give you a unit every 17 turns or so if allied. Other allied city states will give one on a occassion if they are really happy with you (I got a general without even fighting). From civs, I don't know, may be via the trade dialog?

Thanks. I get Generals what are they good for other than a golden age or a Citadel? And what is a Citadel for?

[Buccaneer]

I didn't know Great Generals can do golden ages?

I'm waiting for my general to catch up to my troops but I think he will give a 25% boost to strength for those units within 2(?) hexes of him. Classic wargame stuff.

Citadel, if I recall, is a really, really strong tile that probably is meaningless for gameplay.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I didn't know Great Generals can do golden ages?

I'm waiting for my general to catch up to my troops but I think he will give a 25% boost to strength for those units within 2(?) hexes of him. Classic wargame stuff.

Citadel, if I recall, is a really, really strong tile that probably is meaningless for gameplay.

General's three options are:

1) Start a golden age. (nothing special here)

2) Adds 25% strength boost to all units within 2 tiles. The general counts as a non-military unit so CAN stack with a military unit. It does not combine with a military unit as it did in Civ 4, but you can have it move with a military unit to provide it constant protection.

3) Build the citadel. This building will overwrite whatever improvement is in the hex you choose to build the citadel. Building the citadel consumes the general. The citadel will give 3 points of damage to any enemy unit that ends a turn adjacent to it.

[Abe Sargent]

I used the Citadel once in a one tile ithmus on a hill between me and Egypt. It's wasn;t that hot. It totally kept Egypt out though

[Galaril]

Thanks everyone for the answers.

[Scoobz0202]

Noob question incoming. Never played Civ before and this is for Civ IV, but it's such a basic question I figure I can ask here. (CIV V doesnt run for me so since I've never played before Civ IV and V are no difference to me)

I've played, or I should say I've STARTED to play, a couple games now. I tend to get to about 750 BC and restart because I feel I've made such critical mistakes that it's better to just learn from them and start over. But with the flow of so much information some stuff just goes in one ear and out the other. (I've probably put about six hours of game time in, but probably 10 hours of reading forums, basic strategy guides in. Probably the wrong way to go about it but the first time I fired up the game I was so lost.)

Now to the question. The tiles around my city, they have their production labels (food, commerce, production). When I start to build improvements on them, to get the results from each tile do I have to have a citizen working it? Like early on, my city population is only two or three. Am I only getting commerce, food, production from the two or three tile that i have citizens on or do I get it from all the tiles, but just a bonus from the ones being worked on?

Additional question. One game I started, I got to around 700 BC or so. I decided to open the world builder up, just to see the computer and see how either far behind or ahead I was. Cheating, yes, but I really wasn't using it to find resources. I'm more worried about understanding the game then the victories right now. But my city was in an area of high commerce and food, but there as only ONE production in my city. I noticed I was so far behind and that was probably because it as taking 30+ turns to produce a fucking worker. Is that just terrible placement of the city, being fucked on the map gen, or was there something I could do to make up for that? There was quite a bit of stone nearby that I probably should have utilized earlier, but didn't, would that have made up for it? Or am I totally off base?

And a third question that came up as I was typing this. How quickly do you have to plant your first city? Is that pretty much something you need to do within a few turns? First couple games I was wasting probably six-ten turns trying to find a good place to put my city and then eventually getting my settler there.

Thanks for the input.

1. Citizens working tiles.

2. Had only one hammer in my initial city, was I fucked?

3. City placement. Initial city, how late is too late?

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How does the one city challenge go? Is there anyway to keep up with other civs while having just one city? Do you have go aggresive to keep the other civs down?

Well I did this game on Chieftain since it was my first go at OCC on Civ5, so it'll be a little harder on the higher levels.

You have to do a really good job of balancing everything when you do OCC though. It can be easy to get behind if you don't pay attention to one area.

I went with Egypt for one reason and one reason only, +20% production on Wonders. Add with that some of the other bonuses you can get on wonders from policies and such, and you can really benefit by building them. Wonders give culture, plus their bonus, plus Great People points, and are completely free of maintenance.

You need to make certain that you're in a good defensive position as well, as you can't really afford to screw up too much in war. You can take your chances and attack other civs as you see fit, but you have to be vigilant and protect your capital. Walls, Castle, etc. are definitely something worth taking despite the maintenance costs. Especially when you can get some wonders or policies that greatly increase their strength. I'm in the middle of the renaissance era right now and Thebes has a combat strength of about 59.

The biggest problem I've found is gold. You don't really realise how much money you get from trade routes until you have none. You've got to keep an eye on maintenance costs and work with other civs in trading to make some money.

Personally for the city I focus on food and production first, then science and then gold.

If you're only going to have one city, it needs to be big so you can work as many tiles as possible and have what specialists you need to keep up with everybody else.

Production needs to be high because you can't rely on other cities helping by producing units or wonders or whatever.

Science you need to do what you can when you can to keep that high or you'll fall behind eventually. It's not as big a problem early in the game, but later on as the AI have many more cities all producing science you may start to lag behind.


As for my Egyptian game. I started out on a small peninsula that was nearly all grassland with some hills and lots of forests. So I started out in a good location to grow a large population. I had some silk and marble around too so that I could trade.

My first priority was building a worker so that I could get improving some of those hills and improve my production. Only after that did I build a scout (not like I was going to be expanding much anyway) and then an archer to deal with any barbarians.

Kept improving my land, building some wonders and other buildings as I saw fit. Focusing mainly on science and gold producing buildings, along with the defensive ones.

Eventually Rome tried to start some crap with me, I used mainly ranged units and retreated back to Thebes and just nailed the little bastards from a distance. Eventually got a peace treaty out of them by giving some silk.

After that I made a beeline towards getting longswordsman and then cannons, while also working on a castle and The Kremlin.

Rome invaded again, I did the same this time only was more prepared and eventually they gave in. Got a good bit of gold, lots of resources, a very good war all around.

Since then Rome hasn't really been picking fights with me, though I did DoW them once and repeated the previous war more or less. I've sent a portion of my army off to fight away form my home peninsula a few times when somebody needed to be brought back down to size. Gotten some gold from each of those wars as I've kept ahead of everybody else technologically.

As for City States I've mostly kept allied with some maritime once to get more food. I'm also allied to Sidon who have provided me some useful units this time around.

I'm going to continue with this game for awhile longer and see how later era's play and then I think I'll give it a try on Prince level.

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Now to the question. The tiles around my city, they have their production labels (food, commerce, production). When I start to build improvements on them, to get the results from each tile do I have to have a citizen working it? Like early on, my city population is only two or three. Am I only getting commerce, food, production from the two or three tile that i have citizens on or do I get it from all the tiles, but just a bonus from the ones being worked on?

You only get hammers, gold or food from the tiles you have a citizen working. But it doesn't hurt to go ahead and improve tiles before you're ready to work them as you'll get a new citizen eventually.

Remember though that in Civ IV a city can only work tiles that are within two tiles of the city.

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Additional question. One game I started, I got to around 700 BC or so. I decided to open the world builder up, just to see the computer and see how either far behind or ahead I was. Cheating, yes, but I really wasn't using it to find resources. I'm more worried about understanding the game then the victories right now. But my city was in an area of high commerce and food, but there as only ONE production in my city. I noticed I was so far behind and that was probably because it as taking 30+ turns to produce a fucking worker. Is that just terrible placement of the city, being fucked on the map gen, or was there something I could do to make up for that? There was quite a bit of stone nearby that I probably should have utilized earlier, but didn't, would that have made up for it? Or am I totally off base?

Mines add to production of a tile, and certain terrains have different values so it depends on where you were somewhat. Grasslands are brilliant for growing huge cities, poor producing buildings/units quickly. Though the high population gives you the potential to have a high production value if utilized correctly.

So yes, a few mines probably would have helped, and any resources like stone too.

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

And a third question that came up as I was typing this. How quickly do you have to plant your first city? Is that pretty much something you need to do within a few turns? First couple games I was wasting probably six-ten turns trying to find a good place to put my city and then eventually getting my settler there.

I usually do right away, unless I see some really good reason not to.

When you start out you're already in a good location. May not always be perfect but it's usually above average. Roaming around looking for a different spot just gets you off to a slower start than the others.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

1. Citizens working tiles.

2. Had only one hammer in my initial city, was I fucked?

3. City placement. Initial city, how late is too late?

1. Each population works a tile. So, if you have 2 population, then only 2 of those tiles are being worked. You can choose which ones, too.

2. You were likely fucked. I think we need more info to draw a better conclusion.

3. You should be building your first city on the first turn. 99.9% of the time I do and usually on that tile it starts on.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

2. You were likely fucked. I think we need more info to draw a better conclusion.
.

Not sure what more info meant, but I did an overhead shot. It's kind of hard to see, but you might be able to break it down. You can see the three mines by my capital. I may have got started on those too late. I just recall it take sooo lonnngg to get a worker or warrior.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...enShot0000.jpg

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

Remember though that in Civ IV a city can only work tiles that are within two tiles of the city.

A lot of good information for me in your post but out of all of it this made a lot click for me. I knew you had to build by resouces and what not. That is was essential, but somehow that basic law slipped past me.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

3. You should be building your first city on the first turn. 99.9% of the time I do and usually on that tile it starts on.

In Civ4, it was 99.999%, Civ5 shaping up to be about 95-99%, depending on bias start or not.

[Passacaglia]

Remember that in Civ IV, you can use your surplus food to build workers, too.

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

In Civ4, it was 99.999%, Civ5 shaping up to be about 95-99%, depending on bias start or not.

I'm not sure that I'm too fond of the bias start, I kept starting and restarting games with America and every time it seemed I was stuck in between a desert and tundra/snow/ice with a little bit of plains in between and a couple of city states taking up the nearest good locations. Sort of annoying.

Although such a location can be quite decent for later in the game when you hold the vast majority of the worlds oil.

[Buccaneer]

I think it is biased towards the UU. Doesn't America have a big bomber or something? But you can always go into advanced setup and not do a biased start.

[Alan T]

Hmm, I think I found a bug... Do you see it?

[Nogram]

The number of horses?

[lighthousekeeper]

the underwater pyramid?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Nogram

The number of horses?

Yeah, for some reason ever since I had a deal with another civ to give them horses for money, since the deal has ended, every turn it keeps adding the horses to my total (and adds gold per turn to the other civ's total).

Now I'm up to 1700 horses available while the other civ is making like 400 gold per turn now.

[Nogram]

I would rather have the gold....


But, you should report this and submit your saved game.

Nogram

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Nogram

I would rather have the gold....


But, you should report this and submit your saved game.

Nogram

It's been a known bug since the release.

Edit: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=384564

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It's been a known bug since the release.

Edit: [BUG] Traded horses expires, resources readded turn after turn - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Thanks Bucc!


Such ashame I don't think there are enough hex tiles in the map to use up all 12000 horses that I now have

[SackAttack]

Too bad that bug didn't happen with iron.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Too bad that bug didn't happen with iron.

Speaking of iron, by late BC I was pulling in 36 iron. It was one of the last Patronage policies that really bumped up resources from a city-state.

[gi]

Figured out that the game doesn't crash much at all in single player. Soon as my wife and I start a LAN hosted game, crashes all the time.