July console sales numbers......

[wade moore]

If the Elite could come down to $299 I'd probably buy it tomorrow. I'm curious to see what this does to the price of refurbished (as long as that 3 year warranty transfers) and maybe I'll go that route.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of new gaming news overnight.

Looks like I hit the nail on the head regarding the possible release of MGS4 before the end of the fiscal year to meet the sales target of 10M units in the next 9 months that Sony has set for themselves. MGS4 will likely ship in March worldwide according to this article.....

http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=169219


Looks like Crysis will be ported to the PS3 once the PC version is released. Job opportunities on the team are now available.....

Job listing asking for PS3 developers/knowledge base:
http://crytek.de/inside_crytek/item....2&s=jobs&pID=4

Interview with Crytek CEO where he neither confirms nor denies:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=169174


Sony Chief of Marketing in New Zealand may have let a future PS3 feature slip out. Digital tuner will be available next year to allow PS3 users to use their console as a fully programmable HD-DVR system.....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4146820a9175.html

Quote from the article:

"We're also hoping next year – about the same time that Freeview launches its terrestrial broadcasting service (expected to be in March) – to release a digital tuner for the PS3, turning it into a programmable TV recorder."

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Totally agree. Price needs to drop a week before Thanksgiving at the very latest. I only made the comment regarding end of year in regards to EF27's comment that the 60 GB machine supply wouldn't be exhausted until next year, therefore, the price wouldn't come down until then. I think that the 60 GB machine supply will be moved for the most part before year end. Also, from a supply curve perspective, Sony can't wait until that 60 GB machine is in short supply to drop the 80 GB machine's price. That's why the Thanksgiving timeframe appears to be a likely time for price movement.

It has to be in October to really be effective. The average person out there isn't watching this like a hawk. To get it into people's minds that they want to spend $500 or $400 before Christmas, you have to get them thinking about it in advance. And it has to be everywhere and for a little while before people even start considering it. Not everyone is as "consumer video game savy" as the people discussing things in this thread.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It has to be in October to really be effective. The average person out there isn't watching this like a hawk. To get it into people's minds that they want to spend $500 or $400 before Christmas, you have to get them thinking about it in advance. And it has to be everywhere and for a little while before people even start considering it. Not everyone is as "consumer video game savy" as the people discussing things in this thread.

SI

I don't think most people plan that far in advance for X-mas shopping. Black Friday is really the first time that people buy holiday gifts. Dropping the price a week or two before that date should allow enough buzz to be generated and the store circulars will have that new price prominently listed for Black Friday.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good article here about the current state of the console market after the Sony price drop.....

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27219


Famitsu console sales numbers out of Japan from last week report a 345% jump in PS3 console sales (Minna no Golf 5 was released last week in Japan). Wii and PS2 sales remained steady with the 360 showing a slight increase in sales as well.......

Wii 70000
PS3 38000
PS2 14000
360 3800

A rumor mill article discussing possible PS3 exclusives/lost exclusives......

Rumor 1: Sony has made a deal to secure FFXIII and Vs.XIII's exclusivity.

I heard this rumor back in March when the SCE France president mentioned that FFXIII's exclusivity was "under discussion". Well, my sources told me that "under discussion" meant that Sony was making Square an offer to keep the game on their platform, and their platform only. A few months later SE stated that no FF games would be hitting the 360, which basically confirms that the deal with Sony has probably gone through. I am not sure as to what extent the deal declares exclusivity, but I know that Sony has done something to keep it exclusive. However, since there is no official light shed on this there is still a chance that a FF game could hit 360, but right now it seems unlikely. Since my sources have never told me if the exclusivity deal went through or not, I cannot be too sure of exclusivity, but since a 360 announcement has not been made, and I did hear that Sony was making SE and offer, I say that it is likely Square took the deal.

Chance of happening: 90%

Rumor 2: Sony has made Capcom an offer to make a PS3 exclusive.

I heard this from one of my most reliable sources (never been wrong) in July, that SCE President and CEO Kaz Harai has paid Capcom a visit and made them an offer to develop a game exclusively for the PS3. I am not sure if the game is a sequel or spin-off to a long standing Capcom franchise or if it is a whole new IP, but I can tell you that they are definitely working on something for Sony that takes full advantage of the PS3 hardware. July's issue of EGM even sheds light on the rumor briefly so I think it is safe to assure that this rumor is pretty likely. I am guessing that Sony is probably funding development. Keep an eye out for the game, we should be seeing it sometime in the future.

Chance of happening: 99%

Rumor 3: Part of Sony and Epic's UE3 contract specifies that Epic will be developing a new IP exclusively for the PS3 under SCE.

This rumor seems pretty likely, Sony even mentioned at their press conference that the contract they had to get UE3 optimized for PS3 was "multistage" and the folks on the 1up show even mentioned that they had heard that part of the contract with Sony was for a new PS3 IP. The source on this one is kind of iffy, but I trust him enough to report this, plus I think it is even more likely to happen now that 1up has also mentioned it. in short, Epic will be developing a new IP exclusively for PS3 at some point. I do not know when they will start developing it or what it is, but I know that it will be published by Sony and it will be exclusive to PS3.

Chance of Happening: 85%

Rumor 4: Sony will be publishing a game by Bioware for the PS3.

For my final Rumor of this issue, I will be talking about what I have heard about Bioware's next console game. Apparently Bioware has agreed to develop a new exclusive IP for the PS3 under Sony. The source on this one is right most of the time, so I can see the reliability in this one. Plus, I believe the president of Bioware already let it slip that they were working on a PS3 game. Plus, once again the pages of EGM have also shed light on this rumor, so believe what you want. All I know is that the game is a new IP exclusive to PS3, and publishes by SCE. Bioware is an independent 3rd party dev that is known to work closely with hardware manufacturers, similarly to Epic. I say this one is pretty likely, especially since the president of Bioware already mentioned a PS3 game.

Chance of Happening: 92%

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good article here about the current state of the console market after the Sony price drop.....

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27219

The second half of that article is a good read.

Which, inevitably, leads us back to the question which hangs over this whole issue - why not just lop money off the price tag and be done with it?

The answer, we believe, lies with Sony's incredibly unusual position in the games market. For Microsoft, its approach to the videogames sector is very simple, and the reasoning be-hind its various decisions is correspondingly simple.

It has one product in the market, and its aim is to gain the maximum possible market share for that product. The original Xbox was killed off before the Xbox 360 even launched; there is no existing installed base to worry about or support. Better again, the firm has showed no qualms about sinking billions of dollars into gaining market share; the original Xbox made vast losses, and few who have any insight into the figures underlying Microsoft's console business believe that the Xbox 360 will ever bring the Xbox division into the black. For the odd quarter here and there, perhaps; but overall? Not a chance.

Sony, by comparison, has a vast number of factors to take into account when it makes de-cisions on pricing and market positioning. At the heart of this is the fact that right now, the PlayStation 3 is not Sony's main product in the videogames space - that honour belongs to the PlayStation 2, a system which recently passed 118 million units sold and is by many measures the most successful videogames console ever created.

PlayStation 2 is Sony's work horse, its cash cow, and probably a menagerie of other barn animal metaphors to boot. It is a vastly profitable business, both for Sony - thanks to prof-itable hardware sales, profitable accessories and lucrative licensing fees - and for most of the industry's major third party publishers, many of whom enjoy far better profit margins on PS2 software than on next-gen titles.

It is, in other words, the engine which continues to drive not just Sony's business, but the business of many third-party publishers. Sony's determination to keep it alive, combined with the introduction of the PSP - a portable platform whose hardware shares many simi-larities with the PS2 - guarantees that its lifespan will be even longer than that of the PSone, a platform which was still going fairly strong eight years after launch.

Sony's dilemma is apparent. PS3 is the future, of course - for Sony at least, if not neces-sarily for the industry as a whole. However, the harsh reality of the present is that Sony cannot afford to do anything that will damage the PS2's lifespan and profitability. Unlike Microsoft, it is faced with an almost impossible balancing act; attempting to establish the PS3, without crushing the PS2.

If Sony rushed to cut the price of the PS3, it would of course spur sales - and would drive Sony Computer Entertainment spiralling into billions of dollars of loss. By pushing the PS3 too quickly into the mass-market price points occupied by Nintendo, and coveted by Mi-crosoft, Sony would effectively be replacing the profitable PS2 business with the loss-making PS3 business. It would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs (we knew there was another barnyard metaphor there somewhere) and replace it with a product which, at present, does nothing but devour gold.

As such, the firm's dalliances with "value proposition" take on a different meaning. Sony wants consumers to feel that the company is responding to their concerns, and it wants to ensure that the Xbox 360 doesn't grow its head start any further - but equally, it does not want to do too much, too soon.

For now, the firm's strategy is to maintain the PS3 as a very high-end, expensive and pre-sumably desirable system, which is out of reach for the average consumer but provides them with a clear upgrade path at some point in future. In the meanwhile, in theory, they will continue to buy PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable hardware and software.

This is what David Reeves means when he says that Sony acknowledges that sales of the PS3 are not enormous, but that the company is satisfied that it is hitting its targets. Sony's targets aren't just for PS3 sales; they encompass PSP and PS2 sales, not to mention software sales for those platforms.

Right now, PS3 is, indeed, not selling in enormous numbers - but PSP and PS2, the firm's profitable platforms and by extension the most important, are ticking along nicely despite strong competition from Nintendo around their price points.

It is, of course, a terribly risky game to play - but it's the only game in town for Sony. Bal-ancing the need to maintain sales of previous generation hardware against its battle with Microsoft in the next-gen is an extraordinary high-wire to walk along. Doing too little to spur PS3 sales could erode consumer confidence and hand the next generation to Microsoft. Doing too much would ensure victory in the next-gen battle, but would leave Sony finan-cially devastated and facing disaster.

Whether this month's value adjustments strike the balance correctly remains to be seen. However, it's vital to remember, when watching Sony's movements in the market, that its position is more complex than that of its rivals. That is, of course, no excuse for misleading or disappointing consumers; but compared to Microsoft's deep pockets and single-platform strategy, Sony's situation is altogether more difficult.

When is a price cut not a price cut? When, instead, it's a careful step along a very high tight rope. Sony's next steps, in the coming six months, will be crucial - the firm is accom-plished at this stunt, but there's no safety net below.

[MikeVic]

That writer uses a hyphenation (one of those "-" things) in a couple of weird spots...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

That writer uses a hyphenation (one of those "-" things) in a couple of weird spots...

It's sometimes a good thing to use an underutilized key every now and then. Makes the "-" key feel more wanted.......

[twothree]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

That writer uses a hyphenation (one of those "-" things) in a couple of weird spots...

Perhaps the writer originally wrote it in a program that automatically added hyphens to a fixed width article and then saved it with the hyphens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Couple of recent quotes from Sony/MS execs......

Phil Harrison comments about Madden on PS3 being only 30 FPS

"[pause] Well, I can only point to our own sports studio [doing a] 1080p, 60 frames-per-second basketball game, but I'm afraid I have no idea. We're providing some tools and technologies from our worldwide studio's core technology groups to 3rd parties now, as well. You may remember something from GDC, we announced this thing called EDGE and that's now widely deployed within the 3rd party community, and that is clearly improving the developer's ability to maximize what the CELL processor does. Hopefully, that will assist folks like EA. It would concern me if the platform was incapable of doing it, but we've proven the platform is capable of doing it, so it's not a PlayStation 3 issue. I'm trying to be polite."

Bill Gates comments about the competitors (evidently Sony is 'just in video games' as a company):

"So we've always wanted to be a company that got the benefit of the scale, going back to the beginning where we said, hey we're not a one-product company. Many of our competitors were one-product companies. Now they're not one-product companies, but Sony's just in video games, Nokia's largely just in mobile phones, IBM's largely in enterprise type software situations. And so is it a benefit to us that we work across these realms that we can expose you to the same user interface at home that you get at work? We think so. But there's a lot of execution behind taking that and getting the right things in the marketplace."

[Eaglesfan27]

Again, Phil Harrison's comments would sting EA quite a bit more if 2ksports and other 3rd party developers weren't having just as much trouble getting their games to run optimally on the PS3. It's not just EA's games that are performing less optimally on the PS3 compared to the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Again, Phil Harrison's comments would sting EA quite a bit more if 2ksports and other 3rd party developers weren't having just as much trouble getting their games to run optimally on the PS3. It's not just EA's games that are performing less optimally on the PS3 compared to the 360.

Certainly don't disagree with that. It's a complicated system that most developers aren't willing to be the first one to invest and actually use the full processing power at this point. They'd rather wait for another developer to create some new tools and ideas so they don't have to put in as much work into developing games fully for the system.

I will say that I hate Harrison's choice of examples in this situatoin. The Sony NBA game was not a very good game at all. It looked pretty and ran smoothly in 1080p, but the gameplay hadn't improve any over its predecessors. There were some non-sports games that would have been much better choices IMO.

There's more 1080p games coming out for the PS3 this fall that appear to have no problems running at 60fps according to previews. Developers are going to have less and less excuses as we move foward in the console's life.

[SackAttack]

One of the Madden devs at E3 said something about Madden 06 and 07 running at 30 fps on the Xbox 360, and this being the first version that'll run at 60.

I don't know if that's something to hang on Sony's doorstep just yet, in other words.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

That writer uses a hyphenation (one of those "-" things) in a couple of weird spots...

A hymen? I've encountered those. I'm certainly not going to disclose any locations though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Lair and Heavenly Sword have both had their release dates moved to September 4th. I'd be surprised if they both end up getting released on the same day. Doesn't seem like a good move to split attention between two titles with big expectations.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like multiple disc games are going to become more standard on the 360's. Yet another developer has run into space problems due to the DVD format that will limit game features. This time it's the developers of Project Gotham Racing 4.......

http://loot-ninja.com/2007/07/30/pgr...r-same-tracks/

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/arti...rticle_id=5257

Dude...I think he called you out.

Edit: Here's the text from the developer for those who can't access the site.

As I'm sure you've seen, some of the comments made on our forum have been blown out of all proportion. This has been reported on certain web sites. It seems that a number of fanboys have jumped on the topic... sigh. So it's time we cleared this one up...

When we started designing PGR4 our primary goals were to create a great and unique experience over and above PGR3, to push the hardware as far as we could, and obviously to ensure that we give great value for money. DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games... and PGR4 is no exception. DVD9 gives us more than we need to create a fabulous experience for you guys.

The previous game, PGR3, had five environments. That's how much we could create given our time and resources for that game. With the longer development cycle we've had for PGR4, as well as the advantage of having final hardware, we wanted to create a far bigger and better game by this time including 10 environments, as well as a whole bunch of new gameplay features.

Rather than having two "fixed" times of day, this time around we decided to use our time to create a dynamic weather system, which effectively creates a much more dramatic palette from which to work with. To show you where we're coming from, have a look at this screenshot crop sheet. This is something we use internally to compare our environments, lighting, and weather effects... but it's certainly useful for demonstrating the breadth of the game here!

We've never had to cut content to fit on the disc, and we probably never will.

Each next-gen format has its own merits. We should know, as we're currently developing games for all of them in one form or another. It's not a case of one system having less of this, and the other having more of that. As developers we are given a fixed platform, and that's what we work with. At the end of the day we're games developers, and we try to create the best we can irrespective of platform. We hope you end up agreeing with our design decisions when you see the game for yourself.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like Lair and Heavenly Sword have both had their release dates moved to September 4th. I'd be surprised if they both end up getting released on the same day. Doesn't seem like a good move to split attention between two titles with big expectations.

Lair is getting killed in early impressions. The general consensus has been that it looks great, but the gameplay is lacking and difficult to control. If that is true, then it might make sense to take attention away from that by releasing them both. Heavenly Sword's early impressions have generally been quite positive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Lair is getting killed in early impressions. The general consensus has been that it looks great, but the gameplay is lacking and difficult to control. If that is true, then it might make sense to take attention away from that by releasing them both. Heavenly Sword's early impressions have generally been quite positive.

You wonder if Lair is going to get a new review copy. They reviewed those games 3 weeks before the original release date. There's likely going to be some changes from those copies.

The reviews have definitely been mixed (high of 9.0 and low of 6.5). The control discussion is an interesting one. I'm not sure how many people will actually use the motion controls and will opt for the analog sticks instead. Cheapy D had mentioned on his podcast that the motion controls worked OK, but he just preferred the analog stick for the most part. I'm interested to get it and see which one is the better control system. It is nice that they included both control systems so you have that option.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/arti...rticle_id=5257

Dude...I think he called you out.

Edit: Here's the text from the developer for those who can't access the site.

That's an awful lot of words to avoid addressing the actual point at hand. All he did was add a further question to the mix. He stated that they decided against a day/night setup and added dynamic weather instead. That sounds great. So that means that you'll have some outstanding looking thunderstorm effects when lightining strikes at night, right? No, because you ran out of room to make night effects.

At the end of his release, he says:

At the end of the day we're games developers, and we try to create the best we can irrespective of platform. We hope you end up agreeing with our design decisions when you see the game for yourself.

What design decision? I thought you put everything in there that you wanted in the game? Why was there any 'decision' if there was no need to cut anything? It's not like night races were some new setup that had never been achieved in a video game before.

He would have been better off letting the sleeping dogs lie than to make the contradictory statement he released.

[Bee]

Seemed pretty straightforward to me...

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yet another developer has run into space problems due to the DVD format that will limit game features.

a number of fanboys have jumped on the topic

DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games

We've never had to cut content to fit on the disc, and we probably never will.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New worldwide sales numbers in for last week.....

Worldwide Console Weekly Total for week ending July 29th........

Wii........228,542
PS3........109,067
Xbox 360........56,779

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

New worldwide sales numbers in for last week.....

No PS3 or XBox?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

No PS3 or XBox?

Sorry, mislabeled the PS3 number as PS2. Fixed now.

[albionmoonlight]

The Wii just amazes me with those constant numbers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The Wii just amazes me with those constant numbers.

Imagine what will happen later next year with a $50 price drop.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This evasive answer from a Bioware developer is fueling rumors that a Bioshock PS3 game is already being developed. Likely will only be a timed exclusive for the 360.........

GAMEPRO
GP: Also, another comment you might not be too open to talking about, but will we be seeing or hearing anything about Bioshock on the PS3 down the road?

LEVINE: Right now we’re totally focused on making the game for Xbox 360. Microsoft has been a great partner, we love the platform, and we get to make a PC game as well. That’s great because we come from the PC side, but right now we’re focused on getting the game out the door on the platform that we’re on and that we love.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

What design decision?

To include a dynamic weather system or not and how to go about doing it. They chose to go with dynamic lighting, among others, to show varying weather effects instead of prerendered textures and other graphics.

I thought you put everything in there that you wanted in the game?

They did, they wanted to put a dynamic weather system in their game and they put it in,

Why was there any 'decision' if there was no need to cut anything?

Do you even know what a design decision is?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sabotai

To include a dynamic weather system or not and how to go about doing it. They chose to go with dynamic lighting, among others, to show varying weather effects instead of prerendered textures and other graphics.

They did, they wanted to put a dynamic weather system in their game and they put it in,

Do you even know what a design decision is?

So your opinion is that they put every feature in that game that they wanted in there, correct?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So your opinion is that they put every feature in that game that they wanted in there, correct?

No game ever has every feature the game team wants to have. And among the reasons for this, the amount of space on a DVD is near the very bottom of the list.

Have you ever worked on a video game before? It sure doesn't sound like it...

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So your opinion is that they put every feature in that game that they wanted in there, correct?

My belief is that they didn't have to cut anything out of their design document due to the space available on one DVD disc. If you want to equate "want" with what was in the final design document, then yeah, it sounds like they got everything in from the words the guy used (as opposed to "want" equating "wouldn't it be super awesome if...")

So anyway, have you been able to look up what "design decision" means yet?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

No game ever has every feature the game team wants to have. And among the reasons for this, the amount of space on a DVD is near the very bottom of the list.

Have you ever worked on a video game before? It sure doesn't sound like it...

I have worked in both programming and testing capacities on various projects in gaming and other fields for 10+ years. I don't feel the need to turn this into a spitting match at any level. It doesn't make me any smarter or dumber than anyone else who would like to discuss the topic.

IMO, the night track option could have been added in this case.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I have worked in both programming and testing capacities on various projects in gaming and other fields for 10+ years. I don't feel the need to turn this into a spitting match at any level. It doesn't make me any smarter or dumber than anyone else who would like to discuss the topic.

IMO, the night track option could have been added in this case.

I haven't been following, but was the night/day stuff already coded and tested fully? If not, then maybe they didn't want to spend any more time and resources on it. Or maybe their engine/framework couldn't handle the night/day thing added on to it without performance drawbacks?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I have worked in both programming and testing capacities on various projects in gaming and other fields for 10+ years. I don't feel the need to turn this into a spitting match at any level. It doesn't make me any smarter or dumber than anyone else who would like to discuss the topic.

IMO, the night track option could have been added in this case.

If you've been in the video game industry, then you should know that all kinds of design decisions are made throughout the course of a project, many to reduce scope so that the game can be completed in a reasonable amount of time and within a reasonable budget. Some decisions are made based on space, but those decisions are far more likely to be about the amount of RAM available on the system as opposed to the space on the disk.

Considering you had no involvement whatsoever with the making of PGR4, unless you have a contact within Bizarre Creations that is giving you inside info, who are you to say that they could've added the night track option?

Now, if you want to opine as a gamer that you're disappointed that night track weren't added, that's a whole different subject. But you appear to be weighing in from a technical/game design standpoint, and I'm calling bullshit on that unless you can show that you know what you're talking about in this case.

I saw nothing in the Bizarre Creations developer's quote that indicated night tracks could've been added if only there were more space on the disk. Sounds instead like it was legitimately a design decision to go a different direction in how they wanted to light and render their environments, a decision that altered the range from simply day/night environments to a more dynamic weather system.

[Deattribution]

This doesn't even have anything to do with whether you know anything about creating games or not, it's just the developers trying to calm the storm they created. Basically they said that given the opportunity they could have created a more dynamic game with an additional room - and it caused a shit storm for Microsoft. Now they're trying to fix it by saying they are making 'design decisions'. Do you actually think they're going to say 'well if we were on the PS3' (which they aren't) and we could use the blu-ray (which they can't) and add everything we want on one disk... (again, which they can't) so anyway here is what we can make though'. It sounds like the only 'design decision' they made was that it would be a terrible move to be the first US 360 game to use multiple disk.

Did they add everything they wanted on a single disk? I'm sure they did. Would they have liked to have had that additional room? they already admitted to that basically, you don't need to have to work on a game or worked with the company to know that.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

This doesn't even have anything to do with whether you know anything about creating games or not, it's just the developers trying to calm the storm they created. Basically they said that given the opportunity they could have created a more dynamic game with an additional room - and it caused a shit storm for Microsoft. Now they're trying to fix it by saying they are making 'design decisions'. Do you actually think they're going to say 'well if we were on the PS3' (which they aren't) and we could use the blu-ray (which they can't) and add everything we want on one disk... (again, which they can't) so anyway here is what we can make though'. It sounds like the only 'design decision' they made was that it would be a terrible move to be the first US 360 game to use multiple disk.

What you fail to acknowledge is that there are many decisions that go into determining what ends up as the final game product. Was space limitation on a standard DVD one of the factors? Could be. Was the it the only factor in determining the time of day and weather lighting effects? Highly unlikely.

As someone that has worked in the industry for the last 9 years and sat in on countless meetings figuring out how we can do various features and whether they were worth the cost in time and resources, I can tell you that this decision was likely at least as much about reducing the amount of work for the environment team in having to create different lighting maps for different times of the day.

Maybe the original poster from Bizarre was correct in saying that space limitations were the reason they opted to go with the dynamic weather system, and the follow-up postings were damage-control ordered by Microsoft. Or, maybe the first guy didn't really know what he was talking about, and the follow-up was to correct his mistake. I've seen both scenarios happen before.

What's been overlooked so far is how this website "Loot Ninja" has taken this issue and twisted the story to meet some preconceived belief they have about disk space inhibiting 360 game development. To say as they do that "...the DVD’s limitations stand in the way of progress" is a very biased view of the situation - in fact, it appears that Bizarre has indeed pushed progress on the system by adding a much more dynamic lighting/weather solution.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

What's been overlooked so far is how this website "Loot Ninja" has taken this issue and twisted the story to meet some preconceived belief they have about disk space inhibiting 360 game development. To say as they do that "...the DVD’s limitations stand in the way of progress" is a very biased view of the situation - in fact, it appears that Bizarre has indeed pushed progress on the system by adding a much more dynamic lighting/weather solution.

Yup. I just don't see DVD size as being that much of an issue right now. You have to actually load all that content after all...

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I just don't see DVD size as being that much of an issue right now.

Agreed, it isn't, but a subset of gamers really wishes it was.

[BrianD]

Have there been other articles indicating that nighttime isn't included in this game? They say they have gone away from two static times of day, but is there any reason to expect that dynamic weather/lighting couldn't also produce night?

[Eaglesfan27]

Nighttime is in the game. There just aren't tracks that have "true" daytime and nighttime both on the same track. However, weather effects can make daytime very dark.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Nighttime is in the game. There just aren't tracks that have "true" daytime and nighttime both on the same track. However, weather effects can make daytime very dark.

That was pretty much my point. And from a gamer's perspective, isn't this preferable? I would much rather have a dynamic system which can evolve throughout the day rather than just a static day-mode and night-mode.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yup. I just don't see DVD size as being that much of an issue right now. You have to actually load all that content after all...

The developer contradicts himself on that. His original quote was this (bolding mine):

You won’t see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn’t a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we’ve worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy.

Then later (after a ton of sites started up a shitstorm about it), he posted this (italics and bolding his):

When we started designing PGR4 our primary goals were to create a great and unique experience over and above PGR3, to push the hardware as far as we could, and obviously to ensure that we give great value for money. DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games... and PGR4 is no exception. DVD9 gives us more than we need to create a fabulous experience for you guys.

And

We've never had to cut content to fit on the disc, and we probably never will.

So he is contradicting himself, or more than likely using semantics to cover his ass. They didn't use DVD size as a factor in their design. Ok. They didn't cut content to fit on the disc. Fine. There is still the likelyhood that post Design phase and prior to Content Development there was a determination made about how many courses and textures the DVD could hold and that affected the ultimate end product.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Agreed, it isn't, but a subset of gamers really wishes it was.

By the way, it really pained me to type what I just did and agree with some of Mizzou's anti-360 propaganda.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by KWhit

The developer contradicts himself on that. His original quote was this (bolding mine):




Then later (after a ton of sites started up a shitstorm about it), he posted this (italics and bolding his):



And




So he is contradicting himself, or more than likely using semantics to cover his ass. They didn't use DVD size as a factor in their design. Ok. They didn't cut content to fit on the disc. Fine. There is still the likelyhood that post Design phase and prior to Content Development there was a determination made about how many courses and textures the DVD could hold and that affected the ultimate end product.

Hey, nice explanation.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by KWhit

The developer contradicts himself on that.

What you quoted likely came from two different people. The first quote was from a member of their message board named "Ben" (who is a member of the staff). The second one doesn't state who wrote it.

Most games have more than one developer.

[Eaglesfan27]

In a surprising move, GTA IV has been delayed until 2008:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176074...ewstop;title;1

Interesting quote in the article:


"Certain elements of development proved to be more time-intensive than expected, especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms," said Take-Two chairman Strauss Zelnick in a statement.

Any guesses which platform proved harder than expected to develop for?

Edit: Take-Two is predicting over a 200 million dollar hit in this fiscal year as a result and that is a huge deal to their company. Stock prices are taking a bit of a hit as well.

[twothree]

As far as I know all versions of Madden NFL go on sale on the same day this year. Last year the PS3 and Wii versions did not go on sale at the same time as the other versions, since the systems hadn't launched. So in total this year we have console versions on the PS2, PS3, XBOX, XBOX360, GameCube, Wii, and the PSP and DS handheld consoles (also the PC and MAC get a version).

Anyone care to guess in what order the different console versions will be ranked in unit sales for the Month of August?

My best guess after some local debate...

1) PS2
2) XBOX360
3) Wii
4) XBOX
5) PSP
6) PS3
7) DS
8) GameCube

[MikeVic]

1) 360
2) PS2
3) Wii
4) PS3
5) XBOX
6) DS
7) PSP
8) GameCube

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by sabotai

What you quoted likely came from two different people. The first quote was from a member of their message board named "Ben" (who is a member of the staff). The second one doesn't state who wrote it.

Most games have more than one developer.

True. I have no idea if it was the same person or not, but the company line was contradictory, which was really my point (not that it was necessarily the same person).

I mean, the original statement couldn't be more clear.

You won’t see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn’t a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I mean, the original statement couldn't be more clear.

Yes, but that doesn't mean the statement was true.

[Eaglesfan27]

If NCAA is any measure (and I think it is) Madden Sales will be something like this:

1) 360
2) PS2
3) Wii (no NCAA for that system, but I think Madden will have strong sales)
4) PS3
5) Xbox
6) PSP
7) DS
8) Gamecube