Game of Thrones on HBO

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by bob

Unrelated question - when Robert's Rebellion was successful and the Targaryen dynasty was deposed, a new ruler and line of succession took over. Who cares if Jon Snow is a Targaryen and would have been next in line under different circumstances? The Targaryen are out of power...

Its more that he was killing every Targ child, so theoretically Jon would have been murdered if found out. Also since they ruled for thousands of years, that he'd make a play for the throne.

[hollmt]

It isn't even that complicated.
Robert was a Usurper and many Targaryen loyalists believe/d that.
Anyone with enough power and backing can knock anyone else out of power.
Targaryens just want what they feel is rightfully theirs in the first place and are attempting to do exactly what Robert did...
You can point at Littlefinger as a perfect example of this. Had he enough power and political backing, that assclown could have been on the throne as well. Many fans wanted that.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by bob

I remember this, but can't see why exactly Baelish would care enough to have Jon killed. How does this directly affect him?

I think it was Cercei that noticed Jon Arryn was getting close, and she used Littlefinger to do the deed. His own spin was to use Lyssa and get this whole ball rolling. But that's my speculation. The only think that's been confirmed is Littlefinger used Lyssa to kill Jon Arryn. We don't know if it was his own doing or if someone paid/ordered Littlefinger to do it.


In this scene from the first season, Cercei doesn't seemed shocked at all when Ned confronts her about why Jon was killed, that's why I think she was at least a part of it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bob

I remember this, but can't see why exactly Baelish would care enough to have Jon killed. How does this directly affect him

Remember who is next in line to the throne if the truth gets out. Stannis Baratheon. Stannis was someone who at one point wanted all the brothels in King's Landing closed. He likely wouldn't be in favor of Petyr's various money making schemes.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bob

Unrelated question - when Robert's Rebellion was successful and the Targaryen dynasty was deposed, a new ruler and line of succession took over. Who cares if Jon Snow is a Targaryen and would have been next in line under different circumstances? The Targaryen are out of power...

Because not everyone necessarily thinks you should be on the throne. Plenty of folks would still think you improperly deposed the rightful heirs (for example in Medieval England, Henry VIII had to worry about this a few times early in his reign).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Its more that he was killing every Targ child, so theoretically Jon would have been murdered if found out. Also since they ruled for thousands of years, that he'd make a play for the throne.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Because not everyone necessarily thinks you should be on the throne. Plenty of folks would still think you improperly deposed the rightful heirs (for example in Medieval England, Henry VIII had to worry about this a few times early in his reign).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I took it like who cares NOW, after there's been another transition and all (legitimate) Baratheon's have been killed.

[ISiddiqui]

Even NOW, legitimacy concerns are still important on the basis of support. In a medieval society, legitimacy mattered quite a bit as not too uncommonly you tended to have a few claimants to a throne once a king died.

One of the reasons Robert was chosen as King over Jon (Arryn) was that Robert was more closely related to the Targaryens (his grandmother was one).

[whomario]

What "support" ? Are there even any significant "Free Agents" (current or after one side wins) left ? I mean, the great houses/spikes on the wheel have been going down fast this past season. In any case, no one would back Daenerys based on claim/legitimacy so far (Dorne and Tyrell had different reasons) and the allegiances with regard to Cersei/Jon are are so well established, i don't see it making a lick of difference. I mean, seems to me the South is pretty much a Lannister "blob" while the North is a Stark/Snow/"We the North" blob.

This would, hypothetically, all come down to how Daenery and Jon react to the reveal. And since it has been pretty well established that Jon won't suddenly develop ambitions of sitting on that throne, it should come down to wether or not Daenerys acts "Impulsive" or not and maybe wether Jon can a) tell a tiny white lie for once for the greater good (ok ...) or b) convince the Northerners that she's the woman for the job he does not want.

I mean, it is obviously going to play a role in the show with all the hints being dropped. But IMO it will be less about politics and happen more on a personal level in a "nurture over nature" kinda way. Jon will get pressured into being somebody he's not, Danery's will be pressured into treating him like somebody he's not.

[whomario]

Upon rewatching, the King's Landing stuff still holds as being among the Highlights of the whole series. The feel of walking into a trap, aided by the dragon pit, the dialogue, the reveal. Amazing set-piece !

One gripe: I can't forgive the writers for not letting Tyrion give a clever response regarding "transportation" when Cersei equires if Danerys didn't travel with them ... Come on, it was right there ... Also, the whole Clegane thing was just weird and another bad example of the show being fan-servicy (i know that is not a word ), although at least they did not come to blows.

[ISiddiqui]

In Robert's Rebellion, both Dorne and the Reach were firmly on the Targaryen side. Mace Tyrell spent most of the war laying siege to Storm's End.

When you base an entire system on legitimacy, someone being the 'true heir' to the throne has a physiological effect. When they realize that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen, some folks are going to have to do some serious soul searching, even if it seems silly to us.

[whomario]

Yeah, bot both those houses are defunct now for all intents and purposes (as are, in the case of the Reach their next important house whose sole remaining theoretical heir would be Sam and he's Jon's buddy regardless)

So that's why i am wondering who that would even affect ? The show has given no agency so far to anybody below the great houses really, would be beyond weird to suddenly have "the people" do anything about it.
And all the important houses are either essentially eliminated or already firmly aligned to leaders despite their lack of legitimacy !

The Northern Lords would be sorta in a pickle, having their voted king be both "King in the North" (yay !) and descendant of the very line that they rebelled against (nay !), but those are probably not the ones you refer to. I mean, they are already against supporting anybody and are on the fence regarding Jon as their King anyway due to him being a heroic idiot fighting.

And as far as Daenerys (mostly supported by foreign and/or single figures now) or Cerseis current supporters/allies (Euron, all the incorporated leftovers that are now part of the Lannister blob and whatever mercenaries she can buy, essentially), i don't see that mattering one bit.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by whomario

Yeah, bot both those houses are defunct now for all intents and purposes (as are, in the case of the Reach their next important house whose sole remaining theoretical heir would be Sam and he's Jon's buddy regardless)

So that's why i am wondering who that would even affect ? The show has given no agency so far to anybody below the great houses really, would be beyond weird to suddenly have "the people" do anything about it.
And all the important houses are either essentially eliminated or already firmly aligned to leaders despite their lack of legitimacy !

The Northern Lords would be sorta in a pickle, having their voted king be both "King in the North" (yay !) and descendant of the very line that they rebelled against (nay !), but those are probably not the ones you refer to. I mean, they are already against supporting anybody and are on the fence regarding Jon as their King anyway due to him being a heroic idiot fighting.

And as far as Daenerys (mostly supported by foreign and/or single figures now) or Cerseis current supporters/allies (Euron, all the incorporated leftovers that are now part of the Lannister blob and whatever mercenaries she can buy, essentially), i don't see that mattering one bit.

+1 Who's supporting Cersei Lannister as the rightful ruler that's going to switch sides because there's a son of Rhaegar instead of a niece? Cersei is what, the mother of an illegitimate heir to the Baratheons? Once Tommen & Myrcella died she lost any plausible pretense to be some sort of regent. She sits on the throne because of power & scheming, not legitimacy, and (if she's actually pregnant) installing her obviously incestuous child born out of wedlock would be in the same vein.

This whole storyline is being set up to be manufactured drama between Jon & Daenerys, or Jon & the northern lords.

[molson]

If I was one of those Ironborn leftover guys, I would have just promoted the next guy rather than follow Theon. Any of the guys with beards would be fine. "You're in charge now Roger."

Edit: Since it's been touched on here - what does happen to the huge leftover armies of defeated houses? Renly had a ton of soldiers, many of whom, I guess, joined Stannis. What happened to them after Stannis was killed? And what about the soldiers loyal to the Tyrells and to Dorne?

[whomario]

I feel like they would simply join, either because their lords do (See Tully, Edmure) or because there really is not much difference for them fighting for one Lord/Lady or another. Especially in these intra-kingdom clashes like Tyrell/Cersei where technically they have been subject to Lannister controll.
The Tyrell's would not have a ton of soldiers anyway i would guess (i think that was alluded to a lot in the show as well, pointing out how that was never their fortè) and i am pretty sure most were killed and since everybody follows the "chain of command" i feel like the surviving nobles would have simply then joined the Lannister's (again) with all their troops.
Many probably joined with them even before that since that was the whole point in recruiting Tarly as General since he had a good grip on a lot of them acording to Jaime. Might have been essentially just the core army for Tyrell directly with a few loyal nobles and of those i would guess that the vast majority died.

And historically in medieval times and antiquity there often weren't a ton of survivors anyway and i guess that is true for Westeros as well. You don't storm a castle unless you manage to kill the vast majority of it's defenders. Wasn't Stannis army slowly erroded with each ensuing battle ? I feel like that army was pretty much obliterated by the end when he was done for.

Did the Yara-fleet get attacked before or after they picked up the army ? If the former, than they are likely still simply in Dorne. If the latter, they would likely have died or fled back to Dorne, don't see Euron making a point making prisoners and/or recruiting.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by molson

If I was one of those Ironborn leftover guys, I would have just promoted the next guy rather than follow Theon. Any of the guys with beards would be fine. "You're in charge now Roger."

Edit: Since it's been touched on here - what does happen to the huge leftover armies of defeated houses? Renly had a ton of soldiers, many of whom, I guess, joined Stannis. What happened to them after Stannis was killed? And what about the soldiers loyal to the Tyrells and to Dorne?

Stannis' guys from the Stormlands were most likely slaughtered during the battle of Winterfell. That or they deserted when Shireen was sacrificed. They were pretty far from home though and who knows if they survived the winters. I think the Dornish people are still in Dorne. Theon and his sister were gonna take their Greyjoy boats there to bring the Dornish back to attack Kings landing, while the Targaryen fleet was taking the Unsullied to Casterly Rock.

I think the large amount of forces from the Reach were split amongst Tyrell and Tarly factions, but with Randyll Tarly dead, they are probably just gonna stay out of the firing lines.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by whomario

That makes very little sense for Dany to do that. I could see the deal being for Tyrion to convince Dany to let Cersei and her child(ren) after her go to Exile or at the most get Casterly Rock upon strong limitations (no standing army f.E. and not being "warden" of anything). Makes no sense at all that Dany would (or even that Tyrion believes she would) ever consider essentially giving Westeros back into the same situation as before. That's not her ...

So yeah, i agree the deal made has sth. to do with that child and Cersei's remarks at the meeting support that there was a deal, but i think it being for the throne is going overbord.

Tyrion was merely realizing the dangers here. They are off to fight for everybody's live, this is a terrible distraction if nothing else.

Pretty sure that child might have the most legit claim to the throne via birthright of anyone still standing. (Assuming that nobody knows who Jon is) . nobility is all been basically wiped out now.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

Pretty sure that child might have the most legit claim to the throne via birthright of anyone still standing. (Assuming that nobody knows who Jon is) . nobility is all been basically wiped out now.

It'd be born out of wedlock & Cersei has no "legit" claim to the throne as far as I remember.

(Her currently being on the throne with no valid claim is also why I don't understand this discussion.)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

Yeah, bot both those houses are defunct now for all intents and purposes (as are, in the case of the Reach their next important house whose sole remaining theoretical heir would be Sam and he's Jon's buddy regardless)

Their main houses are, but not their client lords. It's not just Great Houses and people. There are the Wardens and those that pledge fealty to them and those that pledge fealty to those Lords. You asked if there was anything in the books, IIRC. Well if you turn to the back of any of the books, you'll see pages upon pages upon pages of heraldry (In fact, Sansa's story in the books currently relies on how that heraldry works and how most people have no clue who the heir to Robert Arryn is.

And as far as Daenerys (mostly supported by foreign and/or single figures now) or Cerseis current supporters/allies (Euron, all the incorporated leftovers that are now part of the Lannister blob and whatever mercenaries she can buy, essentially), i don't see that mattering one bit.

Yes, those backing Cersei wouldn't switch to Jon since he's got a better claim to the Iron Throne than Daenerys, BUT those who are backing Daenerys may decide to throw in more with Jon.

As you asked: "who cares if Jon Snow is a Targaryen and would have been next in line under different circumstances?" The backers of Daenerys just might. Someone like Varys most definitely, but some of the folks who've flocked to Daenerys and have been disconcerted by her wanton use of fire (I can see those in the Lannister forces who bent the knee a few eps ago trying to make trouble by claiming she isn't even the Targaryen heir).

There are two competing claims here - one is that Robert's Rebellion was a valid and legitimate use of force and the one that it wasn't. The one that says Robert's Rebellion wasn't states that the Targaryen claims are the most valid (which brings up a second interesting point that even if you forget Jon, there is a long history that women weren't allowed to be Queens... to the point where it has been wondered if Westeros has Salic Law of Succession, ie, skip the females - in that case, with no male direct descendants of Aerys II, the closest blood relation to Aerys II would have been Robert Baratheon as his 3rd or whatever cousin). Anyways, if you think Targaryen claims are the most valid, then someone being closer in line to the throne under Targaryen succession would throw everything out of balance. And yes, it makes no difference to the Baratheon/Lannister people.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It'd be born out of wedlock & Cersei has no "legit" claim to the throne as far as I remember.

(Her currently being on the throne with no valid claim is also why I don't understand this discussion.)

Cersei would most likely have claimed the crown on the right of Proximity of Blood (which IRL was in use in a few areas in Medieval Europe, most notably in France). In the books, of course, she is Queen Regent after the death of Kevan, because Tommen is like... 7.

[Edward64]

Some additional info on Sansa & Arya.

'Game Of Thrones' Actor Says Cut Scene Would've Explained Confusing Finale Moment | HuffPost

“Funny enough, we did actually shoot a scene that didn’t make it into that episode where Sansa knocks on Bran’s door, and I don’t know whether they actually want to change the story, but as I understand it, Sansa came to Bran and goes, ‘Can you just look some of this up before I kill my sister?’ That kind of sentiment. Sansa just checking that fact,” said the actor.

So apparently, Sansa’s scene with Littlefinger where she questions whether Arya was going to kill her was legit. She was actually worried, but then decided to check with Bran before doing something she might regret.

[whomario]

@ISiddiqui : Pretty sure i didn't because generally i tend to care very little about the "book stuff" that is not used, unless it's idle curiosity/Background Info sending me down that rabbit hole. If i really wanna know how the books do this, i will give them another go (which i will do anyway when/if they are done)

We are discussing the show here after all and on the Show, all those minor nobles have most definitely not been of any importance whatsoever so far and i highly doubt they will with what little time there is left. If they wanted that, they would not have killed off the Tarly's. There's no way the writers will reach (haha ... ) deeper than the No2 Family.

Not meant as an attack, but i see and hear this sort of argument soooo often with regards to the show and i am totally over all this "drawing conclusions out of the source material,l even though the show runners have clearly decided not to use it"

Basically i feel like some book readers have a tendency to overcomplicate things that the show tries really hard not to, because they gotta finish this thing and have much fewer "pages" to tell the story, much less all the little side-informations, nuances and backstories. I realize it is hard (from different adaptations where i loved the source material), but i swear way too many people (not you from what i can tell) see the show merely as a sort of graphical illustration of the books or some sort of graphics-based wish-fulfillment Medium.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Some additional info on Sansa & Arya.

'Game Of Thrones' Actor Says Cut Scene Would've Explained Confusing Finale Moment | HuffPost

Would have been enough to create some sort of situation where one or both of the sisters enter his room, then have a cut to somewhere else. Heck, what if they had moved the dagger moment back a few episodes and simply showed them engaging about it and then cutting away without us knowing where that discussion will lead. Maybe have Littlefinger watch the meeting (or the one described before), which then triggers him looking for that raven scroll and sawing distrust, leaving us guessing wether Sansa merely plays along or is doubting Arya/Jon.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

We are discussing the show here after all and on the Show, all those minor nobles have most definitely not been of any importance whatsoever so far and i highly doubt they will with what little time there is left. If they wanted that, they would not have killed off the Tarly's. There's no way the writers will reach (haha ... ) deeper than the No2 Family.

Yes, but the show is based on the books and for the writer of the books, Jon being the legitimate son of Rheagar and Lyanna was very important. So perhaps the show doesn't care about minor Lords, but it does have the major beats of the written work that does care about legitimacy and how the nobles and the people in that world will accept a certain thing or not or who they may throw their weight behind.

So maybe why a certain thing may not make sense in a show is because it is because of something more told in detail in the books and makes more sense in the books. And the show is telling the major events from the book story that it knows about because that's it's blueprint for the end game.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Martin or HBO should have found a way to make the threat from the dead an issue in Essos as well as Westeros. All of th talk about the end of humanity is undercut by the apparent fact that Essos and all its people will be fine regardless of what happens in Westeros.

That's what they thought. The Night King on a dragon to Essos, he just needs to turn a few guys and the same situation in Westeros is there as well.

[dubb93]

I know there are a million fan theories out there....but Bran as the Night King is one of the more interesting ones. Thoughts?

[molson]

They do look a lot alike, after the Night King was re-casted.

I'd say too weird though, for where this show is now.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by molson

They do look a lot alike, after the Night King was re-casted.

I'd say too weird though, for where this show is now.

They have the same clothes(at least the night king wears an outfit that Bran has worn in the past), same amulet, the army of the dead was marching in a direwolf formation. Could all be smoke and mirrors though.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I know there are a million fan theories out there....but Bran as the Night King is one of the more interesting ones. Thoughts?

No. I am sure they are connected in some way, but i see no reason why the story would go beyond that.

I do think them being connected will be a reveal and have consequences, but that's about it. I am pretty sure the Night King will be show to be able to do much of the same "see everything" stuff that Bran can, for example. And that he can maybe use Bran in some capacity for his own benefit.

Heck, maybe the Night King and Bran come from the same ancestral line or sth and are connected that way. Maybe there were 2 brothers and one got turned into the Night King and the other didn't and some odd centuries later: Boom, Stark's of Winterfell.

[ISiddiqui]

Not only does it seem a bit silly, but they don't really have that much time to explain a Bran time traveler arc of that magnitude. I've heard of rumors about Bran's constant pleading driving Aerys II mad ("burn them all" being Bran wanting to tell the King how to deal with the walkers) and now being the Night King... how would all of that be explained (the Aerys thing perhaps could be done quickly).

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not only does it seem a bit silly, but they don't really have that much time to explain a Bran time traveler arc of that magnitude. I've heard of rumors about Bran's constant pleading driving Aerys II mad ("burn them all" being Bran wanting to tell the King how to deal with the walkers) and now being the Night King... how would all of that be explained (the Aerys thing perhaps could be done quickly).

You can read it for yourself online but the jist of it is that The Night King's army is battering Jon's in the north so Bran tries to go back in time to stop him from ever being created. He possesses the first man who was made into the Night King and manifests as himself thinking the Children would know he is the three eyed raven. He isn't successful and they drive the dragonglass dagger into his heart making him the Night King.

That is the quick and in a hurry version of it. Like I said if you want the full thing google it.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by dubb93

You can read it for yourself online but the jist of it is that The Night King's army is battering Jon's in the north so Bran tries to go back in time to stop him from ever being created. He possesses the first man who was made into the Night King and manifests as himself thinking the Children would know he is the three eyed raven. He isn't successful and they drive the dragonglass dagger into his heart making him the Night King.

That is the quick and in a hurry version of it. Like I said if you want the full thing google it.

But then who was the first Night King and why would Bran continue trying to destroy the Starks etc as the Night King in the present day? (I guess he could bypass Winterfell and head straight for the Isle of Faces.) I'm not saying it can't be true, but no way the show writers can competently articulate that in a 6 episode season, so I hope not.

[Arles]

That sounds too hokey for me. For a show who's theme has been "all your decisions have consequences" - Rob's betrothal, Cercei's choices, Ned with Jon, Dany/Tyrion and especially Littlefinger - making this "Bran is the Night King" final reveal would be a massive letdown. It would essentially be saying everything that happened before was meaningless as Bran could just go back in time and reset it all.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

But then who was the first Night King and why would Bran continue trying to destroy the Starks etc as the Night King in the present day? (I guess he could bypass Winterfell and head straight for the Isle of Faces.) I'm not saying it can't be true, but no way the show writers can competently articulate that in a 6 episode season, so I hope not.

The theory goes that the Night King isn't trying to destroy the world. He is actually after Bran. As for why he wants Bran there are 1,000 different theories for that too. He wants to kill him to set himself free. He wants to take him prisoner so he becomes immortal. Those are two. There are about 998 left.

I also believe that the theory states Bran has technically always been the Night King as the other event where Bran wasn't the Night King never happened......although when they changed actors to one that has Bran's features....I guess you could argue that is when the old Night King stopped existing. I doubt that 2nd version would be plausible.

[dubb93]

Someone explain the mad king one to me. What purpose would Bran have for telling him to let them burn? I don't believe there were any walkers that anyone noticed around that time. I don't understand why Bran would even waste his time with that. That one doesn't make any sense to me.

[Logan]

That all sounds horrific. I'd rather watch Theon get his shit cut off again.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Someone explain the mad king one to me. What purpose would Bran have for telling him to let them burn? I don't believe there were any walkers that anyone noticed around that time. I don't understand why Bran would even waste his time with that. That one doesn't make any sense to me.

The theory is that Bran was trying to get Aerys to take the threat of the White Walkers seriously. To confront them before Civil War Westeros took everyone's focus away from the true threat. The way to kill the Walkers to burn them. So beef up the Night's Watch, send parties up far north, and get the Walkers before they can even be in a position to break the Wall.

I think the basis for this is that Aerys suddenly goes mad after seeming pretty sane. Though that could be a result of his turn in the dungeons of Duskendale during that short rebellion.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by dubb93

The theory goes that the Night King isn't trying to destroy the world. He is actually after Bran. As for why he wants Bran there are 1,000 different theories for that too. He wants to kill him to set himself free. He wants to take him prisoner so he becomes immortal. Those are two. There are about 998 left.

I also believe that the theory states Bran has technically always been the Night King as the other event where Bran wasn't the Night King never happened......although when they changed actors to one that has Bran's features....I guess you could argue that is when the old Night King stopped existing. I doubt that 2nd version would be plausible.

But if he's Bran, then how did this never ending circle start?

But I also don't understand the theory that Bran is warging into Longclaw, since I don't understand why you'd warg into a sword & not be more useful. I do like the one that he was constantly keeping an eye on Littlefinger & you could see or hear ravens in the background every time Littlefinger was onscreen this season.

Originally Posted by Arles

That sounds too hokey for me. For a show who's theme has been "all your decisions have consequences" - Rob's betrothal, Cercei's choices, Ned with Jon, Dany/Tyrion and especially Littlefinger - making this "Bran is the Night King" final reveal would be a massive letdown. It would essentially be saying everything that happened before was meaningless as Bran could just go back in time and reset it all.

Just wait until they pull back to reveal all of Westeros is in a snow globe.

[stevew]

Why do I feel like the ending of this is going to remind me a lot of that dumb Matrix movie. Whatever the second one was called. Especially if bran is the night King.

[Groundhog]

The explanation of the whole magic returning/going away again aspect of the show (assuming they do explain it) is going to be hard to handle satisfactorily.... here's hoping.

[stevew]

No more Game of Thrones until 2019 according to HBO

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by stevew

No more Game of Thrones until 2019 according to HBO

Makes sense if the last six episodes are around 75ish minutes leading up to a movie length finale.

[Edward64]

A little disappointed but I'm fine with it.

Definitely quicker than GRRM so can't complain too much.

[Chief Rum]

This is kinda just stating what was already strongly guessed at. If it were coming out this year, we would have heard about more casting news and filiming rumors and what not

[Izulde]

Perfect finale would be Jon eaten by a dragon and Daenerys as World Conqueror of both Westeros and Essos.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Edward64

A little disappointed but I'm fine with it.

Definitely quicker than GRRM so can't complain too much.

Agreed.

I always think of it this way. I started my career as an attorney on October 16, 2000. In the 17+ years that is my entire career to date, GRRM has released TWO books in this series. Two.

Kids that were born the day Storm of Swords came out will be able to vote in November!

Madness!

[Chief Rum]

I still think GRRM is on a presidential publishing schedule. Sure, he started with three under Clinton, but since then, one for W and one for Obama. Now we got Trump.

Maybe we'll get lucky, Martin will release Winds of Winter within the next two years, then we vote out Trump to get the last book (or, heck, just vote out Trump).

[Groundhog]

Trump Jnr, maybe.

[NobodyHere]

What happens first? GRRM finishes the series or the Detroit Lions win a playoff game?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What happens first? GRRM finishes the series or the Cleveland Browns win a game?

Fixed.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm reaching the point where I honestly don't believe he'll finish the series, ever.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I'm reaching the point where I honestly don't believe he'll finish the series, ever.

This is the right answer.