The Biden Presidency - 2020

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Yes. A great many things do.

True, they just don't get posted days after yet another school shooting. It's called being in touch with your world over just your base.

[GrantDawg]

David Purdue is going to primary Brian Kemp for Governor of Georgia. Purdue is going to likely beat him.

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[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Merry Christmas from House Representative Thomas Massie.

Serious question, do Republicans actually send out cards like this to family? Who the fuck sees this and goes, "This guy has always been pro 2nd amendment, voted that way, campaigns on it, but until I saw the Tremors: Christmas Special family cosplay I wasn't sold on the sincerity."

I think it gets to one of the huge advantages the GOP has had over the last few years and is going to have for the foreseeable future. It is a game to them. The politicians and their voters enjoy this in the way that people enjoy sports. He did not send this out to convince his voters if anything. He sent it out the way a sports team makes a hype video.

As a liberal, I can tell you that we are tired. We are scared. And tired and scared people just don’t have the energy to keep this up. But the GOP base has nothing to “keep up.“ The same way you don’t need to keep up going to UGA games. It’s fun. It’s a game. No one of consequence ever gets hurt.

I am not entirely sure how liberals counteract that.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think it gets to one of the huge advantages the GOP has had over the last few years and is going to have for the foreseeable future. It is a game to them. The politicians and their voters enjoy this in the way that people enjoy sports. He did not send this out to convince his voters if anything. He sent it out the way a sports team makes a hype video.

As a liberal, I can tell you that we are tired. We are scared. And tired and scared people just don’t have the energy to keep this up. But the GOP base has nothing to “keep up.“ The same way you don’t need to keep up going to UGA games. It’s fun. It’s a game. No one of consequence ever gets hurt.

I am not entirely sure how liberals counteract that.

I supposed I agree. The "Lets go Brandon" thing is probably the best example of this. They see it as a weird inside joke that triggers liberals when I don't know a single liberal that finds it anything other than childish and overused.

[Brian Swartz]

I think that's a misunderstanding of where a lot of the GOP is. A lot of the radicalization that has happened is a reaction them being scared as well. They're just scared of different things. Some of it is the usual target of white people losing power, but it's a lot more than that.

I.e, my brother is enthusiastic about voting for anyone sane against Whitmer. He's not your typical wingnut, but to him the level of interference with people's lives that happened during the pandemic is unacceptable in any circumstance roughly this side of a world war, and almost anything else is preferable. There's a not-small amount of people like him. I don't think the sports analogy is really accurate. This kind of display by elected officials is more akin to virtue signaling.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

He's not your typical wingnut, but to him the level of interference with people's lives that happened during the pandemic is unacceptable in any circumstance roughly this side of a world war, and almost anything else is preferable.

More Americans died from Covid than both World Wars combined.

And what interference is he upset by? Having to wear a mask at Subway? I get the inconvenience but just the absolute softest generation we've ever had.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

True, they just don't get posted days after yet another school shooting. It's called being in touch with your world over just your base.

I think that's the point though. It's a wink and a nod to the shooter.

The whole thing is just culture war shit and masking insecurities. Trot out your inbred looking family holding guns because no one would fuck you in high school and you can't lift a 20 pound dumbbell over your head.

[JPhillips]

I don't know your brother, but there are a large number of people that, rightly or wrongly, don't feel personally threatened by Covid, so they aren't willing to do much of anything to mitigate the risk for themselves or others.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

More Americans died from Covid than both World Wars combined.

And far fewer than died from heart disease and/or cancer in the same time period.

My point isn't to debate the merits of the interference, I'm largely though not completely on the same side the board is on that point. The point is that it isn't a case where one side is scared of what's happening in our country and the other thinks it's just a game as was asserted. To a significant extent, people are scared about different issues, often diametrically oppose ones.

And no, it wasn't just about the masks. It was about businesses being shut down by executive fiat and similar actions. We're talking about one of the least soft people I know, who was quickly vaccinated and masked when it was requested and didn't complain about doing either. I would call most of this board softer from what I know of them. I'm certainly as soft as tissue paper in comparison to him. Softness isn't the issue. He's of the opinion that it's permanently damaging to culture, society, and individuals to restrict ourselves in these circumstances. Gets back to the whole 'living in fear' thing. There's the side that says we need to take actions a, b, c so that we don't have to live in fear and can get back to whatever 'normal' is; and then there are those like my brother who think it is paramount that we don't live in fear regardless of what those external situations and risks are because we lose an important part of our humanity if we allow ourselves to react that way to dangers.

I'm not nearly as far in that direction as he is. But the essential element here is that it doesn't even matter if he's 100% wrong, his motivation (and others like him) is decidedly not on the 'it's just a game' side. It's on the 'we can't let these people do this to our country without a fight' side. It's the same motivation albionmoonlight was talking about, just with a decidedly different assessment of the situation.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't know your brother, but there are a large number of people that, rightly or wrongly, don't feel personally threatened by Covid, so they aren't willing to do much of anything to mitigate the risk for themselves or others.

9/11 vs Covid is an interesting comparison here. The Patriot act was a reaction to single terror attack that killed 3000 people and had the GOP strongly supported suspending rights because of their fear of terrorism.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

And far fewer than died from heart disease and/or cancer in the same time period.

Cancer and heart disease aren't contagious. Government strongly regulates industry to prevent both. Foods must be labeled with nutritional information and is routinely inspected. Cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs which lead to cancer are highly regulated. Cancer causing chemicals are also banned. Maybe these folks are on the front lines to unban freon or get lead back in our gasoline. Haven't seen it though.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

And no, it wasn't just about the masks. It was about businesses being shut down by executive fiat and similar actions.

Not really. Outside of that early quarantine period where everyone was freaking out, most businesses were up and running quickly. Mandates and regulations were rarely if ever enforced. Outside of large events, I can't think of anything I wasn't able to do in 2020.

Businesses are also shut down all the time by the government over public safety concerns. Restaurants are closed for health code violations. Buildings are condemned over structural issues. We even force the closure of businesses when an ensuing natural disaster approaches.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

He's of the opinion that it's permanently damaging to culture, society, and individuals to restrict ourselves in these circumstances. Gets back to the whole 'living in fear' thing. There's the side that says we need to take actions a, b, c so that we don't have to live in fear and can get back to whatever 'normal' is; and then there are those like my brother who think it is paramount that we don't live in fear regardless of what those external situations and risks are because we lose an important part of our humanity if we allow ourselves to react that way to dangers.

The side he is on is terrified to head inside a Quiznos without a firearm. A side that graciously gave up their privacy after 9/11 out of fear of terrorism. Or a side having a national meltdown over slavery being taught in school and that a transgender person might take a shit in the stall next to them.

These people's entire existence is living in fear. Modern Republican campaigns boil down to scaring people into thinking terrorists are going to get them, someone with dark skin might move nearby, or the evil antifa people will be burning your town to the ground.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It's on the 'we can't let these people do this to our country without a fight' side.

Do what? Seriously, what life-altering thing was he prevented from doing because of this? I live in one of the stricter states and was able to do essentially anything I wanted after the initial fervor died down.

No one was locked up in a camp. No road blocks set up. Martial law wasn't instituted. People were asked to wear a mask and not stand too close to people in public. And if they didn't do that, NOTHING HAPPENED TO THEM BECAUSE NONE OF THIS SHIT WAS ENFORCED.

If people are that worked up about the relatively mild restrictions placed during a once in a generation pandemic, wait till they find out some of the other stuff the government has restricted the past 250 years. Their minds will be blown away!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yeah that would have been the responsible journalist thing to do, and probably a conversation CNN should have had with him all this started. He could have come back to CNN after it was all over, now I'm not sure they will take him back

Two words....Jeffrey Toobin.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Does anything scream I am a complete fucking douchebag more then that picture?

I own guns, but never felt the need to express it as some phallic symbol of my manhood.

That guy is the rep for my district and I can't begin to say how much I despise him. But it's Kentucky they they love anything that looks like beating your chest and giving the middle finger at the same time, even if it's towards a funeral procession.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

These people's entire existence is living in fear. Modern Republican campaigns boil down to scaring people into thinking terrorists are going to get them, someone with dark skin might move nearby, or the evil antifa people will be burning your town to the ground.!

So much this. The "spirit of fear" thing is so ridiculous coming from the party that thrives on fear. Without fear, they have no platform.We had a deacon use that line about wearing in masks in the church building. This the same guy that open carries during service for fear of a gun man attacking the service. The math on the chance that someone would come into the service and start shooting is so small you would be more likely the whole congregation would win the lottery. Yet we had several members die of covid. I don't know how you reason with people like that.
Btw, this deacon and his family left the church. They started attending a local congregation that had a youth activity that became a super-spreader event.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Cancer and heart disease aren't contagious. Government strongly regulates industry to prevent both. Foods must be labeled with nutritional information and is routinely inspected. Cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs which lead to cancer are highly regulated. Cancer causing chemicals are also banned. Maybe these folks are on the front lines to unban freon or get lead back in our gasoline. Haven't seen it though.



Not really. Outside of that early quarantine period where everyone was freaking out, most businesses were up and running quickly. Mandates and regulations were rarely if ever enforced. Outside of large events, I can't think of anything I wasn't able to do in 2020.

Businesses are also shut down all the time by the government over public safety concerns. Restaurants are closed for health code violations. Buildings are condemned over structural issues. We even force the closure of businesses when an ensuing natural disaster approaches.



The side he is on is terrified to head inside a Quiznos without a firearm. A side that graciously gave up their privacy after 9/11 out of fear of terrorism. Or a side having a national meltdown over slavery being taught in school and that a transgender person might take a shit in the stall next to them.

These people's entire existence is living in fear. Modern Republican campaigns boil down to scaring people into thinking terrorists are going to get them, someone with dark skin might move nearby, or the evil antifa people will be burning your town to the ground.



Do what? Seriously, what life-altering thing was he prevented from doing because of this? I live in one of the stricter states and was able to do essentially anything I wanted after the initial fervor died down.

No one was locked up in a camp. No road blocks set up. Martial law wasn't instituted. People were asked to wear a mask and not stand too close to people in public. And if they didn't do that, NOTHING HAPPENED TO THEM BECAUSE NONE OF THIS SHIT WAS ENFORCED.

If people are that worked up about the relatively mild restrictions placed during a once in a generation pandemic, wait till they find out some of the other stuff the government has restricted the past 250 years. Their minds will be blown away!

This x1000

Great post.

I would wager that if these people traveled outside the country to a place where the police were in lock step with the government and the government was much more forceful about things they'd actually see an entirely different side of things and see what actual mandates look like. What we have here is 90% hot air and emotions.

[albionmoonlight]

I should have acknowledged in my post that not every GOP supporter falls into the "This is the best game ever!" box.

I do think that the people laughing as they all say Let's Go Brandon! to each other are the main energy in the GOP right now.

But there's, like, 30+ million registered Republicans in the country. So a lot of them won't fall into the same box.

[PilotMan]

They are the equivalent of someone blasting a personal stereo on the train. The right is basically arguing that there's nothing you can or should do about it in that situation and if it pisses you off then good.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Cancer and heart disease aren't contagious.

Wow, talk about goalpost-shifting. World wars aren't contagious either which was your initial comparison. So are we talking about total deaths here, or are we not talking about that?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Wow, talk about goalpost-shifting. World wars aren't contagious either which was your initial comparison. So are we talking about total deaths here, or are we not talking about that?

No, war was your comparison. You said that these kinds of restrictions would only be warranted for something like a World War. Just pointing out this was far deadlier and a much bigger threat to the average American citizen than either World War.

And I should add that there are civil libertarians who make good cases against some of these restrictions. The difference is they are consistent in their beliefs.

[Chief Rum]

Good to see shit ain't changed at FOFC with the political BS back and forth.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Good to see shit ain't changed at FOFC with the political BS back and forth.

You just have to follow along for the humor. I can't recall anyone whose views were significantly changed in this area, though a few at least attempt to see and respect the perspective of others, which is more than you see in most other places.

[Thomkal]

Devin Nunes to retire from Congress at end of the month-apparently did not like how redisctricting was going to make it difficult to win re-election. He is instead going to be head of Trump's Media and Tech group, which is already under federal investigation I think.


Merry Christmas!


https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...nes-retirement

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Devin Nunes to retire from Congress at end of the month-apparently did not like how redisctricting was going to make it difficult to win re-election. He is instead going to be head of Trump's Media and Tech group, which is already under federal investigation I think.


Merry Christmas!


California Rep. Devin Nunes announces retirement - Los Angeles Times

I get that there's special considerations with Nunes.

But I don't understand why most Congresscritters don't do the job for a couple of terms and then leave to go make $$$ in media/lobbying.

I guess so many of them are multi-millionaires going in that making millions isn't that attractive to them.

Like, but for the whole Devin-Nunes-ness of it, I'd just consider this a smart move by pretty much anyone.

[RainMaker]

Has he been doing much in Congress lately? Only time I hear about him is him suing people for making fun of him online. Irony of him being put in charge of a social media company that's going to pretend to be a "free speech" platform.

[JPhillips]

So Nunes is the guy that will go to jail when the Trump's get caught looting the company.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I get that there's special considerations with Nunes.

But I don't understand why most Congresscritters don't do the job for a couple of terms and then leave to go make $$$ in media/lobbying.

I guess so many of them are multi-millionaires going in that making millions isn't that attractive to them.

Like, but for the whole Devin-Nunes-ness of it, I'd just consider this a smart move by pretty much anyone.

Because you can make even more money looting the treasury. And getting bribes, legal and illegal, for helping loot the treasury.

SI

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

war was your comparison. You said that these kinds of restrictions would only be warranted for something like a World War. Just pointing out this was far deadlier and a much bigger threat to the average American citizen than either World War.

I stand corrected, I didn't understand what you were aiming at there. It seems self-evident to me on the surface that Covid isn't a remotely close comparison to a world war and comparing the death numbers wouldn't even scratch the surface of actually doing a serious assessment.

To avoid more tangents, I should point out again that I said I mostly disagree with my brother on this, but even more importantly it isn't even about whether he or others who think the same way are consistent or correct.

To albionmoonlight's 'Let's Go Brandon' point, I'll just say that's something that's a lot more prevalent by all indications I see in the Twitterverse etc. than it is on the ground. I live in a fairly conservative area where there's still a fair amount of 'My Governor Is An Idiot' and Trump signs, and I've never heard a single person say that, never seen a single sign, shirt, hat, etc. referencing it. If I didn't know it was a thing from my online activities, I wouldn't know the phrase even existed.

The other issues you referenced in your post are largely ones that the right would hold your presentation of to be an absurd caricature of the way they see it. Yes, even the straightforward ones. We need to rid ourselves of the idea that our way of seeing the world is the only reasonable one.

Originally Posted by BYU14

I can't recall anyone whose views were significantly changed in this area, though a few at least attempt to see and respect the perspective of others, which is more than you see in most other places.

Mine have been FWIW. There's multiple issues I think differently about because of people here.

[JPhillips]

There was a Fuck Joe Biden flag in my small Ohio hometown this summer and last night there was a Jeep at the bowling alley here in NY with a Fuck Anthony Fauci sticker across the back window.

[Brian Swartz]

Fuck Joe Biden I see a lot, along with the 'King George' stuff.

[Atocep]

We had a truck pass us yesterday with a "Lets Go Brandon" flag flying from the back. Usually it's "Fuck Inslee" or just straight Trump signs/flags.

[GrantDawg]

There is a big company sign on the interstate in my town that has a "Let's Go Brandon" sign.

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[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

There is a big company sign on the interstate in my town that has a "Let's Go Brandon" sign.

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The Let's Go Brandon thing is everywhere down here, shirts, stickers, flags, etc. Like more than 50% of the people in the shitty town where my in-laws live over Thanksgiving had a shirt. I don't see it as much in my purple-ish suburb but still see it plenty. I almost told a guy "Fuck Trump" at the grocery store last weekend but I wasn't sure if that would be grounds for the guy to shoot me in self-defense in Texas.

[SirFozzie]

There's a Let's Go Brandon STORE about 20 minutes from me (seriously, that's the name of the store).

And MA ain't exactly Trump Central.

[Edward64]

I like Biden having a chat with Putin over Ukraine. I'm assuming the EU/NATO is okay with the US taking the lead here.

But on the other hand, this really is in their own backyard and they should be capable of handling this themselves with US support (e.g. intel, logistics, weapons etc.).

[miked]

I went to the Braves-Brewers playoff game, I heard let's go brandon chants from our section and several others at least 5 times in the first few innings. When the game got later and a little more exciting, people generally stopped.

Up in Elijay, there is an entire Trump 2024 store.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by miked

Up in Elijay, there is an entire Trump 2024 store.

Think about how as a country we would shake our collective heads and mock that if it was in North Korea or Iran.

[Swaggs]

There were some fans that tried to get a chant going at the last WVU football game I went to, but it fortunately died out pretty quickly. There was also a kid that had to be 10-12 years old that was wearing a cheap, homemade shirt that said "Joe Sucks, Kamala Swallows" on the back and "Fuck Joe and the Hoe" on the front. There are several mandated reporters for child abuse in our group and we discussed whether it was worthy of a CPS referral.

[GrantDawg]

I have seen that Trump store in Elijay. That is my trout fishing spot.

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[Edward64]

Not a lot of specifics in the article and wonder what more economic sanctions we can put on Putin. The question is what does Putin want and what we can appease him with without going too far.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/07/polit...ine/index.html

The White House says President Joe Biden told Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday that the United States is prepared to launch strong economic measures should Russia invade Ukraine -- signaling that these new measures would pack a bigger punch than the sanctions issued in 2014 that failed to stop Russia from occupying Crimea.

"I will look you in the eye and tell you, as President Biden looked Putin in the eye and told him today, that things we did not do in 2014 we are prepared to do now," national security adviser Jake Sullivan told reporters Tuesday afternoon after Biden's call with Putin.

During the last several months, Russia has erected supply lines, including medical units and fuel, which could sustain a drawn-out conflict should Moscow choose to invade Ukraine, two sources familiar with the latest intelligence assessments told CNN. And recent US intelligence findings estimate Russia could begin a military offensive in Ukraine in a matter of months as it amasses up to 175,000 troops along the border. Sullivan said the administration still believes Putin has not made a decision on whether to to launch a military offensive against Ukraine.

Sullivan did not go into specifics, but added that the US is coordinating with European allies "at a deep level of specificity."

[RainMaker]

Cutting them off from SWIFT would be a pretty dramatic move.

[PilotMan]

So the commission studying the Supreme Court released its recommendations yesterday. The general consensus was that there are major problems with the perception of the legitimacy of the court, and that they can be exasperated by adding new justices willy nilly.

Among the proposals the commission considered are term limits for justices, who currently have life tenure and often serve for decades. Until the late 1960s, the average term was 15 years, but has now increased to about 26 years. Justice Clarence Thomas, the longest serving justice, joined the bench 30 years ago.


Proposals include staggered 18-year terms that would make appointments more predictable by ensuring that all presidents have the opportunity to nominate two justices in each term they serve. The report, which takes no position on the proposal, cites testimony from a group of Supreme Court practitioners who concluded that an 18-year nonrenewable term “warrants serious consideration.”

Should Congress seek to impose term limits, the commission suggests a constitutional amendment would be the preferred approach rather than a change in statute. The report cautions that any change driven by lawmakers could face a constitutional challenge to be decided by theSupreme Court, raising questions about whether the justices could even review such a case.


“No matter which way the Court came out on the question, these Commissioners worry that the Court’s legitimacy, or perceptions of its legitimacy, would be undermined,” the report states.


The commission also concludes that Congress has broad authority to increase the number of justices but takes no position on expansion, noting the “profound disagreement among commissioners on this issue.”

In other words, we know there are problems, we know that there probably should be changes made, but neither the president, nor enough congressional members are willing or able to make any changes, and clearly, at this point in time, one entire political party is quite content with the current status for at least the next 20-30 years.

Most frustrating thing to have come out of the 2016 election cycle. The complete and total inability of Dem voters to fail to realize the implications heading into it, and the willingness to ignore them and vote for a Giant Douche.

[RainMaker]

You're assuming Democrats in power want to change any of the things happening. I think they understood the implications, but they just don't care as long as their donors are taken care of.

[JPhillips]

Again, it isn't Democrats, it's a minority of Dems, maybe just a handful. Unfortunately, it only takes one Senator to keep Dems from doing anything.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Again, it isn't Democrats, it's a minority of Dems, maybe just a handful. Unfortunately, it only takes one Senator to keep Dems from doing anything.

That minority of Democrats controls the purse strings and messaging of the party. They also face no punishment from the party for going against the leaders of the party

Yesterday a slew of Democrats voted to sell tons of weapons to Saudi Arabia. Something the vast majority of the public opposes. A bank regulator nominee withdrew her name because a bunch of bank lobbyists didn't want it.

If the party gave a shit about democracy, corruption, or any of the stuff they pay lip service to and then ignore, they would go scorched earth on those issues like Republicans do.

[JPhillips]

It's basically two parties crammed together. There are, though, a lot of Dems that would vote for all of the things you would like them to pass.

Dems disappoint me all of the time, but the problem isn't the party as a whole, it's the smaller group that's blocking much of what the majority of the party tries to do.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

He might just take the 5th before the panel.

But this strikes me as a semi-significant development.

Meadows is a smart guy, and he's going to have a sense of what's going on, and if he has decided that jumping off the Trump Train is in his best interest, that might mean that there's some sense that the Trump inner circle is in some danger.

As long as there is a sense that Trump will survive unscathed and punish his enemies and reward his friends, there is no reason to be anything other than Steve Bannon defiant.

It turns out, sadly, that this was not a semi-significant development. Whatever Meadows was doing by pretending to comply, it was not trying to get off what he saw as a sinking ship.

[RainMaker]

lol Democrats

Several dozen Democrats took down an amendment from AOC asserting a federal watchdog may investigate the intelligence community.Â*

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Again, it isn't Democrats, it's a minority of Dems, maybe just a handful. Unfortunately, it only takes one Senator to keep Dems from doing anything.

This. There is merit to what Rainmaker is saying on some issues, but there's also the fact that you cannot go scorched earth successfully with a narrow majority/governing coalition. Compromises are painful, but not as painful as losing the majority if moderates switch parties or are replaced by moderate Republicans. Even a few more Senate seats would allow them to go tell Manchin/Sinema etc. to piss up a rope. They can't do that now. Maybe they still wouldn't even if they had a large enough majority to get away with it, but that's not the situation they have.

[RainMaker]

How do you propose Democrats gain a bigger majority if states are creating laws that prevent them from winning elections and the justice system is stacked with partisan judges who will side based on party and not the law?

We'll see next year how their strategy is working. I have a feeling some of you will be eating crow.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't expect their current strategy to work. What I'm saying is scorched-earth would almost certainly work *worse*. Midterms are going against them no matter what they do, but how hard and far they go against them is somewhat controllable. I'm not saying it's easy to get a larger majority. I agree with you that voting rights is an issue that they'd do best to ram through regardless. But overall, it's just reality that you have to govern in a moderate way when government is closely divided.