2012 Presidential Campaign

[DaddyTorgo]

Wow - Mitt looks so wooden and scared when he walks out to take the questions from the audience.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Massachusetts Mitt doesn't scare me, but Ryan budget Mitt sure does.

No worse than Obama's budget.

[SirFozzie]

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A group mocking Romney's "Binders full of Women" comment already has 40K plus likes on FB. Things move quick these days

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Hasn't a Republican Presidency and Democratic-controlled Congress been considered to be the most effective government in the last 40-50 years?

Or Clinton-GOP?

SI

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

47%! Finally!

I thought that was really well done strategically, drop it right at the buzzer with no chance for Romney to deliver his canned response.

[SirFozzie]

Definitely 1-1 in the debates, wonder if we'll see a similar swing to what we saw after the first debate.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Or Clinton-GOP?

SI

True. I trying to remember where I read that view though.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

No worse than Obama's budget.

No. Obama's budget doesn't scare me nearly as much.

[JPhillips]

Difference between Dems and GOP:

Dems always worry they lost.

GOP always insist they won.

Fox sure isn't engaging in the doomsday talk of MSNBC after debate 1.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Difference between Dems and GOP:

Dems always worry they lost.

GOP always insist they won.

Fox sure isn't engaging in the doomsday talk of MSNBC after debate 1.

Well, even Fox can't call it for Mitt, they are generally calling it a draw (with some voices saying that Obama won).

And while it was a little overblown, anytime the polls switch to a point where your chance of winning the presidential race has dropped 20-25%, you have to be worried.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No. Obama's budget doesn't scare me nearly as much.

Yikes. Both budgets suck. Neither candidate/party want to make the hard choices, and will curry favor to their interests.

I hate that a guy like Jon Huntsman couldn't get traction.

[stevew]

The beauty of FOFC political threads is going back like 5 pages and nobody who actually lives in a legit swing state posts.

And I can't believe the presidency will swing on Ohio. Ohio, the land of urban decay, truck nuts, rebel flags and teenage pregnancy.

Welcome to America!

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by stevew

The beauty of FOFC political threads is going back like 5 pages and nobody who actually lives in a legit swing state posts.

And I can't believe the presidency will swing on Ohio. Ohio, the land of urban decay, truck nuts, rebel flags and teenage pregnancy.

Welcome to America!

And heroin. And meth. Lots of it. (at least in my portion of the state)

[stevew]

I forgot...FUPA by the ton.

America's trailer park.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by stevew

The beauty of FOFC political threads is going back like 5 pages and nobody who actually lives in a legit swing state posts.

And I can't believe the presidency will swing on Ohio. Ohio, the land of urban decay, truck nuts, rebel flags and teenage pregnancy.

Welcome to America!

Whoa, whoa - Alabama wants a word or 6 with you, as does Mississippi.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

And heroin. And meth. Lots of it. (at least in my portion of the state)

And The Ohio State University.

[SirFozzie]

Not to mention the Cleveland Browns. And the Cleveland Indians. Not to mention, the Cleveland Post-Lebrons.

[CrimsonFox]

Romney will never be cool until he switches to using this Trapper Keeper.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Not to mention the Cleveland Browns. And the Cleveland Indians. Not to mention, the Cleveland Post-Lebrons.

and the Clevelnd guys that work at the cleveland hotspots.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Whoa, whoa - Alabama wants a word or 6 with you, as does Mississippi.

Those arent swing states.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Whoa, whoa - Alabama wants a word or 6 with you, as does Mississippi.

Isn't assuming Alabama as being able to muster six words a bit generous?

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Isn't assuming Alabama as being able to muster six words a bit generous?

"Roll Tide, uh... Roll Tide! Roll Tide!"

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Isn't assuming Alabama as being able to muster six words a bit generous?

well, "y'all" counts as two

[CrimsonFox]

And now back to those three little words I always love hearing..."Previously on Lost"

[Solecismic]

I'm guessing Obama will get a +2 out of this performance in the polling. He wins simply because he at the very least held his own. People needed to see him engaged, unbroken.

That would take the election out of the realm of where a reasonable simulation would find Romney winning a significant amount of the time. I think Romney was at 30% going into today - 2% would take him into the low single digits.

So he'll need a win on Monday to put the states in play that he needs in order to win the election. Mainly Ohio. I think Obama's firewall in Pennsylvania is moving into safe territory. Either this is a nail-biter or it's a relatively easy win for Obama in November.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'm guessing Obama will get a +2 out of this performance in the polling. He wins simply because he at the very least held his own. People needed to see him engaged, unbroken.

That would take the election out of the realm of where a reasonable simulation would find Romney winning a significant amount of the time. I think Romney was at 30% going into today - 2% would take him into the low single digits.

So he'll need a win on Monday to put the states in play that he needs in order to win the election. Mainly Ohio. I think Obama's firewall in Pennsylvania is moving into safe territory. Either this is a nail-biter or it's a relatively easy win for Obama in November.

So either one of them will win or the other won't.
And It will be close unless it's not. Great reporting Sol! Keep up the good work!

[Warhammer]

I don't think this is as cut and dry as everyone is making out here. My wife, who is undecided, early on though Romney was clearly coming out ahead, and was calling out the moderator as being very pro-Obama. Also, Obama not letting Romney finish she thought was a very pro-dick move.

However, late in the debate, she thought Romney ran out of steam. However, she still had a bad taste in her mouth about Romney.

From my point of view, I though Romney hammered Obama on his record. Obama still does not have an answer for why he didn't do some of these things his first term. However, Obama slammed Romney hard on Libya. Plus, holding the 47% until his final statement was very good because that is the last thing most people heard from either candidate.

All in all, people are going to say Obama rebounded from his first debate performance. The backers of either candidate can say their candidate did well. I think that most of the undecideds will break towards Romney since he came across very presidential throughout the debate. EDIT: More presidential than Obama who came across as too much on the attack and not having a great deal of respect for his opponent.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

So either one of them will win or the other won't.
And It will be close unless it's not. Great reporting Sol! Keep up the good work!

I realize I was introducing a couple of complex concepts in that post. Don't worry if you didn't catch that, I look at things from a simulation perspective rather than a political one.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

. I think that most of the undecideds will break towards Romney since he came across very presidential throughout the debate. EDIT: More presidential than Obama who came across as too much on the attack and not having a great deal of respect for his opponent.

Really???

[Julio Riddols]

I just want to know how Obama was supposed to get things done when the republicans did everything they could to shut down every bill he tried to pass. They blatantly made every effort they could to stymie any forward movement so they could use it later in this kind of argument. The "He had 4 years and didn't get anything done" thing is a ridiculous statement to make. He can't vote for those who would conspire to make him look bad with no regard for the well being of the constituents they represent and the country they govern.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I just want to know how Obama was supposed to get things done when the republicans did everything they could to shut down every bill he tried to pass. They blatantly made every effort they could to stymie any forward movement so they could use it later in this kind of argument. The "He had 4 years and didn't get anything done" thing is a ridiculous statement to make. He can't vote for those who would conspire to make him look bad with no regard for the well being of the constituents they represent and the country they govern.

Obama had a Democratic-controlled Congress the first two years.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I just want to know how Obama was supposed to get things done when the republicans did everything they could to shut down every bill he tried to pass. They blatantly made every effort they could to stymie any forward movement so they could use it later in this kind of argument. The "He had 4 years and didn't get anything done" thing is a ridiculous statement to make. He can't vote for those who would conspire to make him look bad with no regard for the well being of the constituents they represent and the country they govern.

yup exactly. All that blocking and filibustering everything in site without even discussing shit then blaming him for the problems. Total politics.
Was just reading this about just that issue.

Senate Republicans Block Another Jobs Bill, Face Backlash From American Public

[DaddyTorgo]

For what snap polls are worth....
Colorado voters give Obama a 48/44 victory in the debate- more importantly 58/36 among independents. Sample is R+3

— @ppppolls via web


CNN: 46-39 Obama win. Among debate watchers, which isn't representative of overall audience.

— @jedlewison via Twitter for Mac The sample of debate watchers was EIGHT points more Republican than the general public, per CNN polling. So even this heavily GOP group gave the victory to Obama.

[CrimsonFox]

Quick turnaround on factchecking that's fo sho! Very good read.

ThinkProgress Liveblogs The Second Presidential Debate | ThinkProgress

[larrymcg421]

Wolf Blitzer is such a moron. The CNN poll shows a 46-39 victory for Obama in an R+8 sample and he calls it a draw because he thinks you add the 8 points to the Republican. Spare me this bullshit about CNN being liberally biased.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Really???

I'm basing a lot of this on my wife. Plus, I was watching this with my son who is extremely anti-Obama and had to vouch for Obama when he was making some good points (need to keep things on an even keel so my son can learn to see past his own bias).

I think the moderator bias will work against Obama for many undecideds. He came off as too aggressive early (I was wondering if someone was talking in his ear as he backed way off about 1/3 of the way in). My wife felt that Romney was firm in fighting for what he felt was his time and his chance for a retort. Obama flat out calling Romney a liar or saying that Romney was lying is not good form. It works for the base, but it won't work well for the undecideds.

Also, let's not forget, prior to the debate, everyone was saying that Obama was going to win this one because he had the most room for improvement. I think a lot of the reason for the pundits saying he won was a self-fulfilling prophecy. By my own score, I felt Romney was winning for 3/4 of the debate, but sputtered at the end. Obama came back and had the one zinger at the end that will be remembered regarding the 47%. This was as close to a draw as you could get.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Wolf Blitzer is such a moron. The CNN poll shows a 46-39 victory for Obama in an R+8 sample and he calls it a draw because he thinks you add the 8 points to the Republican. Spare me this bullshit about CNN being liberally biased.

There is no accounting for being a moron.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Obama flat out calling Romney a liar or saying that Romney was lying is not good form. It works for the base, but it won't work well for the undecideds. .

So people in your family (note I'm not saying you because I'm not sure you were saying it was you) don't think that it's proper to point out when other people are lying?? Especially when they're intentionally misleading people to try to gain an advantage?

[Swaggs]

I think the three most memorable sound bytes that will get replayed favored Obama (the 47% conclusion, Crowley correcting Romney on the Libya/terrorism point, and 5 point plan/1 point plan canned line).

I think Romney looked "presidential" well enough for the most part (particularly early on, before the Libya misstep, which seemed to shake him up). I'd agree with Jim. I think it stops the Obama bleeding and tilts the polls toward him a point or two.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Obama had a Democratic-controlled Congress the first two years.

Filibuster?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So people in your family (note I'm not saying you because I'm not sure you were saying it was you) don't think that it's proper to point out when other people are lying?? Especially when they're intentionally misleading people to try to gain an advantage?

In a debate format, no. Obama could have been called a liar several times as well, but I would never go out and call someone a flat out liar in a debate, it is poor form. "I'm sorry Mr. Governor, you need to check your facts. Here's what we have."

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Filibuster?

Still doesn't mean anything.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Still doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't mean anything that you need 60 votes for anything rather than 50?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

In a debate format, no. Obama could have been called a liar several times as well, but I would never go out and call someone a flat out liar in a debate, it is poor form. "I'm sorry Mr. Governor, you need to check your facts. Here's what we have."

Strongly disagree.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

It doesn't mean anything that you need 60 votes for anything rather than 50?

The Dems had 59 seats-60, if you want to count Joe Lieberman, but that may depend on the particular issue.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

The Dems had 59 seats-60, if you want to count Joe Lieberman, but that may depend on the particular issue.

If that's the standard they didn't have 60 for two years, they had it for 8 months. In reality it was even less as Ted Kennedy's health prevented him from being present in the senate before his death.

[CrimsonFox]

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[CrimsonFox]

Crap this is fast

Binders Full Of Women

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by stevew

The beauty of FOFC political threads is going back like 5 pages and nobody who actually lives in a legit swing state posts.

And I can't believe the presidency will swing on Ohio. Ohio, the land of urban decay, truck nuts, rebel flags and teenage pregnancy.

Welcome to America!

I didn't have computer access (though I don't know if Wisconsin is 'swing state' these days).

I will say my favorite moment of the debate wasn't what either candidate said, exactly.

It was when President Obama said that Governor Romney's budget math doesn't add up. He responds with "It absolutely does add up."

The 4 year old watching the debate with the three of us adults stands up, gestures dramatically to the TV screen, and yells "SHOW ME THE MATH!"

The living room lost it at that point. I'm not voting for Romney, and I knew that before tonight, but I have to admit - I couldn't take Romney seriously after that the rest of the night, because the toddler kept repeating the gesture-and-say-something after he'd very seriously try to make a point. What she said varied, but that was the point at which the debate went from 'mee-ow' at the back-and-forth to 'oh god this is hilarious'.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hope she doesn't trip over her own feet while backtracking. Err, well, actually, that might be kinda funny.

CNN's Candy Crowley: Romney Was Actually Right On Libya - YouTube