2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Bonds is the only one to break the home run record, but he's also generally a jerk who brought most of this upon himself. Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens did not come out of this exactly unscathed, however, so to claim Bonds gets particularly nasty treatment because of steroids isn't really true. The most that's come down on him because of that was scorn over the home run record.

As well as not being signed to a contract for the past 2 years, i.e. blackballed* and being prosecuted by the federal government?

*I still wish the Sox signed him now.

Originally Posted by molson

So I guess he's not going to go the taking responsibility route.

He deserves the jeers he'll get on the road and the questions about the legitimacy of his career.

He came out with a (pretty legit) statement after the game

Originally Posted by http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/ortiz_statement.html

Today I was informed by a reporter that I was on the 2003 list of MLB players to test positive for performance-enhancing substances. This happened right before our game, and the news blindsided me. I said I had no comment because I wanted to get to the bottom of this.

I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive. Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me - I will not hide and I will not make excuses.

I want to thank my family, the Red Sox, my teammates, and the fans for their patience and support.

Doesn't mean I believe him, but at least he's not ducking it. Please MLB, just release the whole list now instead of leaking 1-2 names every couple months so we can have the same discussion where the same people make the same exact points. Griffey, Pujols and Frank Thomas are the only 3 left who I think/hope were clean.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I love it when Yankees fans say this, as if they were actually around for all of them.

Year Two-thou-sand *clap clap clap-clap-clap*

[stevew]

"Oh shit...my bad, I didn't realize I was taking Winstrol, I thought it was Vitamin B-12"

[Bitter Jets Fan]

FINALLY Big Sh*tty got caught!

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

He came out with a (pretty legit) statement after the game

Really? That's a legit statement?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The only thing about steroids and MLB testing that really concerns me is that you had some 100 or so players testing positive in 2003, then we're supposed to believe that testing was enacted and they've got a handful since then? That Manny was juicing in '03, juicing in '09, but clean in between? I'm not sure how clean the game is right now, to be honest. And that's not even considering the things that they aren't even able to test for because of legal or scientific constraints.

[sterlingice]

It's time to play: WHEEL... of... STEROID... (Apology)

Let's help him make up a generic steroid excuse. So, which will Big Papi use?

First he has to go one of two routes:
1) I didn't know it was a steroid
2) I only used it once (or for a short period)

It sounds like he's already dug in deep for response #1 with his "I didn't know and I'm surprised" act so that takes off the "I only took it for an injury" excuse.

That leaves us with quite a few options for his next part:
1) Must be a false positive
2) Don't know how it happened
3) A trainer told him it was vitamins
4) Another player/trainer/agent gave him the needle and he didn't ask questions
5) Got it from a cousin in the Dominican (we call this "The ARod")

So, does he
1) Apologize for us that we misunderstood him/his actions
2) Say he will never, ever do it again and feels bad for all the fans he "wronged"
3) Will find the perpetrator and eventually bring the one-armed man to justice

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The only thing about steroids and MLB testing that really concerns me is that you had some 100 or so players testing positive in 2003, then we're supposed to believe that testing was enacted and they've got a handful since then? That Manny was juicing in '03, juicing in '09, but clean in between? I'm not sure how clean the game is right now, to be honest. And that's not even considering the things that they aren't even able to test for because of legal or scientific constraints.

Well, I'm sure after the testing regime came down, players tried to find ways to get around it. Maybe they asked their buddies in the NFL how they've been able to do it all these years .

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It's time to play: WHEEL... of... STEROID... (Apology)

Let's help him make up a generic steroid excuse. So, which will Big Papi use?

First he has to go one of two routes:
1) I didn't know it was a steroid
2) I only used it once (or for a short period)

It sounds like he's already dug in deep for response #1 with his "I didn't know and I'm surprised" act so that takes off the "I only took it for an injury" excuse.

That leaves us with quite a few options for his next part:
1) Must be a false positive
2) Don't know how it happened
3) A trainer told him it was vitamins
4) Another player/trainer/agent gave him the needle and he didn't ask questions
5) Got it from a cousin in the Dominican (we call this "The ARod")

So, does he
1) Apologize for us that we misunderstood him/his actions
2) Say he will never, ever do it again and feels bad for all the fans he "wronged"
3) Will find the perpetrator and eventually bring the one-armed man to justice

SI

Sadly yes, this is what it has come down to each and every time we get a positive result. Big Papi talked tough about steroids this spring training. What will he say now that the public knows he was lying?

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by stevew

Aramis, Jason Schmidt....After that we're talking nobody since the early 90s who's even been good.

And now that Aramis makes the big bucks and has like 8 homers, he's probably not even a franchise guy anymore.

The 8 homers comment is a little off since Aramis missed a large part of the season.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, I'm sure after the testing regime came down, players tried to find ways to get around it. Maybe they asked their buddies in the NFL how they've been able to do it all these years .

I find it interesting that the players KNEW they were going to be tested, and obviously 100+ dumbass players STILL had the cajones to take the stuff, knowing that they would test positive and possibly give the OK for MLB to perform random testing.

What a joke MLB is.

[Oilers9911]

As much as I hate the Red Sox, and Yankees I don't see how these revelations about who was caught juicing makes their titles tainted. If we saw the whole list I would guess that every team is represented. So their juicers were just better than everyone elses juicers. And Papi is no big surprise. He goes from 20 HRs to 54 in what, 4 seasons?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Suck it Charlie Manuel; suck it hard.

Sounds like someone forgot to take their Midol.

[RomaGoth]

I guess Bronson Arroyo is coming out now too...

Bronson Arroyo says he used andro, stopped due to rumors it was tainted with steroids - ESPN


My favorite line from this story:

...The FDA wasn't regulating stuff, not unless it was killing people or people were dying from it.

Aren't these the same thing?

[DeToxRox]

Tigs got Washburn apparently. Not sure what for yet.

[Lathum]

I just want all of this to go away already.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, looks like the Tigs didn't give up anything of consequence. Lucas French and another prospect. The other prospect hasn't been confirmed as to who it is but the names I'm hearing aren't much of a blow.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola, looks like the Tigs didn't give up anything of consequence. Lucas French and another prospect. The other prospect hasn't been confirmed as to who it is but the names I'm hearing aren't much of a blow.

I thought they needed more help in the bullpen and another bat. Why would they pick up another starter?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I thought they needed more help in the bullpen and another bat. Why would they pick up another starter?

We need everything. Our rotation right now is Verlander, Jackson, Porcello (Who is hitting the wall), Galarraga (Who you have no idea what he'll do any start) and a mix mash of guys at #5. I think Fien called up helps, and Bonderman will end up in the pen for some help.

For what we gave up, you can't pass up on Washburn, who has a similar situation in Detroit; big park and good D, plus he is a lefty we need in the rotation.

That said, we still have no offense and I suspect we won't win the Central without either Guillen (possibly) or Magglio (No chance) getting better, Polanco reverting back to form and another bat emerging.

[ISiddiqui]

Jim Rice Inducted Into Baseball Hall Of Adequacy | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

We need everything. Our rotation right now is Verlander, Jackson, Porcello (Who is hitting the wall), Galarraga (Who you have no idea what he'll do any start) and a mix mash of guys at #5. I think Fien called up helps, and Bonderman will end up in the pen for some help.

For what we gave up, you can't pass up on Washburn, who has a similar situation in Detroit; big park and good D, plus he is a lefty we need in the rotation.

That said, we still have no offense and I suspect we won't win the Central without either Guillen (possibly) or Magglio (No chance) getting better, Polanco reverting back to form and another bat emerging.

I had heard rumors of a Freddy Sanchez to Detroit trade, but obviously that didn't happen. The Tigers need another bat, someone who can hit in the 4-7 spot, and take some of the pressure off Ordonez and Granderson. Not sure if anyone decent is available at this point though.

Also kinda surprised Seattle traded Washburn, aren't they still in the hunt for a playoff spot?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Jim Rice Inducted Into Baseball Hall Of Adequacy | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Jim Rice Inducted Into Baseball Hall Of Adequacy | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

As much as I hate the Red Sox, and Yankees I don't see how these revelations about who was caught juicing makes their titles tainted. If we saw the whole list I would guess that every team is represented. So their juicers were just better than everyone elses juicers. And Papi is no big surprise. He goes from 20 HRs to 54 in what, 4 seasons?

i kinda agree.

as somebody else said "so one team of juicers beat another team of juicers."

it's not that that saddens me as much as it's the destruction of the long-term records for things due to players playing longer at higher levels.

now that we have a positive Papi-test I'm pissed that for instance he beat Foxx's Red Sox record for HR in a season. Not so much that he won 2 WS.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

As well as not being signed to a contract for the past 2 years, i.e. blackballed* and being prosecuted by the federal government?

Bonds was not a very good hitter at the time, plus he's a TO-like cancer. Why would anyone want to sign him?

And Boston had no chance with him since he thinks Boston is a racist city.

[Logan]

Off today so I have MLB Network on with their deadline coverage.

It's really not hurtful at all to see Jim Duquette on this fucking thing on this day of all days.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Bonds was not a very good hitter at the time

Um...what?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Bonds was not a very good hitter at the time,

What? Bonds' last full season (2007), he hit .278/.480/.565 with an OPS+ of 170.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Bonds was not a very good hitter at the time, plus he's a TO-like cancer. Why would anyone want to sign him?

And Boston had no chance with him since he thinks Boston is a racist city.

You're talking out of your ass - He had an OPS+ of 170 his last year, and the lead the league in OBP; again. He could still out-hit most of the Giants.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Really? That's a legit statement?

I'm not saying he's telling the truth, but compared to "I'm not here to talk about the past" and the 6 different excuses A-Rod used in 2 days, it's a pretty well worded press release. And I think he's already selected option A - going with "took a protein shake in the dominican, didn't ask what was in it."

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Also kinda surprised Seattle traded Washburn, aren't they still in the hunt for a playoff spot?

And didn't they also just trade prospects for Jack Wilson? What's going on there?

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Bonds was not a very good hitter at the time, plus he's a TO-like cancer. Why would anyone want to sign him?

And Boston had no chance with him since he thinks Boston is a racist city.

When was he not a good hitter? He had OPS+of 156 and 170 his last 2 seasons. His OBP his last season was .480 and led the league by .046. Use one of the other excuses (my thoughts on chemistry in baseball are well documented here - I'll take Bonds, Manny and Adam Dunn as my 3/4/5 hitters any day if I can overcome their defensive liabilities) but please please don't try and tell me Barry Bonds couldn't step in the batters box and outperform at least 90% of major leaguers.

It's a moot point, but Kevin Garnett thought Boston was a racist city and so did Randy Moss. The media played up that angle the one time Bonds came in interleague and he was backtracking before he left town. I'm sure if he still wanted to play and Boston was the only team offering a contract he'd overcome any lingering doubts.

[Arles]

Think Papi still feels this way?

"I would suggest everybody get tested, not random, everybody," he said. "You go team by team. You test everybody three, four times a year and that's about it."

And if a player tests positive for steroids?

"Ban 'em for the whole year," the slugger said.

The current penalties are a 50-game suspension for a player who tests positive once, 100 games for a second positive test for the same player and a lifetime ban for a third positive test, though a player can seek to return after two years.

Philadelphia Phillies pitcher J.C. Romero was suspended last month for the first 50 games this season after testing positive for a banned substance contained in an over-the-counter supplement.

On Sunday, Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen called for a one-year suspension for a positive steroids test.

"I think you clean up the game by the testing," Ortiz said Monday. "I know that if I test positive by using any kind of substance, I know that I'm going to disrespect my family, the game, the fans and everybody, and I don't want to be facing that situation.

"So what would I do? I won't use it, and I'm pretty sure that everybody is on the same page," he said.

Doh!

David Ortiz: Steroid users should get one-year suspension - ESPN

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Off today so I have MLB Network on with their deadline coverage.

It's really not hurtful at all to see Jim Duquette on this fucking thing on this day of all days.

Duquette's worse than Steve Phillips?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Bob Nightengale of USA Today says Red Sox are about to get VMart.

http://twitter.com/BNightengale

[ISiddiqui]

Uh... yes.

Steve Phillips didn't fucking trade Kazmir for Zambrano!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Arles

Think Papi still feels this way?

Doh!

David Ortiz: Steroid users should get one-year suspension - ESPN

He's clearly an idiot and a cheater, though everybody seems to be forgetting that there was no penalties or actual testing in 2003 (just the "anonymous" sample-testing).

What he's saying there isn't really inconsistent with his actions. In retrospect, it's actually kind of telling. He's basically saying that if there were testing and penalties, then that would motivate him and other players not to use. That wasn't the case in 2003, though it is now.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The worst part about Ortiz testing positive is not that he cheated, but that he lied about it. I wish he'd just kept his damn mouth shut. The cheating I can accept, but the lying just makes him a different person than I thought he was.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Bob Nightengale of USA Today says Red Sox are about to get VMart.

http://twitter.com/BNightengale

So will he bitch at the Yankees the first time they blow out the Red Sox?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So will he bitch at the Yankees the first time they blow out the Red Sox?

It's kind of annoying to maybe have to root for that goof, but I can get over it if this makes Varitek a backup.

I'm not as in love with Buchholz as most Red Sox fans, but even I'm not exciting about parting with him for Martinez. I don't think that makes them all that much better even this season.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The worst part about Ortiz testing positive is not that he cheated, but that he lied about it. I wish he'd just kept his damn mouth shut. The cheating I can accept, but the lying just makes him a different person than I thought he was.

Did he ever say he never used?

I can see someone using steroids while there's no policy for it, then when its banned, be in favor of significant penalties. That's totally consistent with what we hear about steroid use. They use it to be competitive. If they're not going to use it anymore because of a policy, they sure as hell don't want other people to use it either.

I'm not naive enough, though, to think that he's not still using, along with everyone else. Just playing with the logic of what he said here.

[Big Fo]

I'm tired of hearing about the 2003 tests, I wish whoever it is would release the whole list and get it over with. It was six years ago and baseball hadn't banned those substances yet. I would like to see the sport do better combating steroid usage going forward but move on from the past.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

He pretty clearly said he didn't use on several occasions.

Hearing that Buchholz is going to CLE. Pretty disappointed if that's true. The only way it makes sense is if the FO thinks his makeup issues will persist and that he's at the top of his trade value now. Still, I think his value is higher than VMart.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Bob Nightengale of USA Today says Red Sox are about to get VMart.

http://twitter.com/BNightengale

No word yet on what the Indians would receive in return although Joel Sherman says he thinks it will be Buchholz.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Hearing that Buchholz is going to CLE. Pretty disappointed if that's true. The only way it makes sense is if the FO thinks his makeup issues will persist and that he's at the top of his trade value now. Still, I think his value is higher than VMart.

And thinking about it more and reading the sentiments at SOSH, there's no way that Varitek is just going to be benched or released. So Martinez is basically going to be a platoon player unless Lowell gets hurt again.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Now seeing everywhere that its not Buchholz. The first Twitter Trading Deadline is rife with potholes.

[ISiddiqui]

If its not Buchholz, it makes me wonder if the deal is done, because that's been what Cleveland has been asking for, IIRC.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Now seeing its Hagadone. Guy had TJ surgery but has looked good in 25 IP since his return.

He does not qualify as anywhere near ML ready, though.

Edit: Masterson + Hagadone? Masterson would be the ML guy.

[JPhillips]

I just heard that Bucholz has been attacked by the Basij!

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Now seeing its Hagadone. Guy had TJ surgery but has looked good in 25 IP since his return.

He does not qualify as anywhere near ML ready, though.

Edit: Masterson + Hagadone? Masterson would be the ML guy.

Bowden and Hagadone? Hopefully not Masterson/Bowden/Hagadone.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Can't see it being three like that. (Masterson or Bowden) + Hagadone is a pretty fair deal, though one I can be happy with.

[ISiddiqui]

Rumor appears to be Masterson and Hagadone... and then the Sox to turn around and deal LaRoche (cause they would have no need for him with V-Mart) to the Mets.

[Dr. Sak]

LaRoche gets the shaft! Hah!