Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Swaggs]

Some rumors coming out that the wheels are in motion for A&M, Oklahoma, OSU, and an unnamed ACC school (assumed to be Clemson) to move to the SEC. At this point, you have to wonder if A&M and Texas aren't working together to get rid of of their tagalongs.

The ACC and ESPN apparently don't have a renegotiation trigger for adding teams, so it will be interesting to see what the long-term effects of them losing a team might be. They may decide to sacrifice their championship game and split their TV pie 11-ways (rather than 12) or try to raid the Big East.

However, the Big East, as the last available conference to sell their TV rights (in 2012) are expected to get a bigger per-team payout than the current ACC deal (which was signed at the beginning of the renegotation cycle and before the PAC 12 blew everything out of the water). That's why there has been some talk about Maryland and/or BC to the Big East (I don't think either happens), as well as some talk of ACC teams looking to the Big Ten (and vice versa).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Don't have a direct link to the contract, but here is supporting info.

Here's one to an Aggie board that talks about the rumors:
TC-Box

Here's another one:
TC-Box

Finally, here is a link to CBS Sportsline, which is a reputable organization:
CBS Sports: A&M Goes to NCAA on Longhorn Network

FTA:

Yeah, I didn't think the contract is what they were referring to. The implication is that there's much more than contract information that was released. That's supposedly the damning part, though I'll be the first to note that I'll believe it when I see it.

Mizzou had a similar FOIA filed against them related to the Big Ten negotiations. Mizzou was able to hold back all communications because there was no completion of contract related to those discussions. My guess is that UT will be use a similar argument to hold back any negotiations about an independent move. They'll argue that any discussion related to that topic won't be released because there was no contract related to any independent network agreement. They only have to release documents related to the LHN/Big 12 agreement. It's a small qualification, but a very important one.

[Swaggs]

I don't know if this guy, Kirk Bohls, is a rambling fool or has any credibility, but he is blogging that the Longhorn Network approached Texas Tech with a $5-million/4-year deal to play Texas and a handful of OOC games on the LHN and Tech turned them down. He indicates that they will next approach Oklahoma State and that high school games will "happen eventually."

Nine things and one crazy prediction

If Texas Tech is turning down the LHN, that really has to make you wonder.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I don't know if this guy, Kirk Bohls, is a rambling fool or has any credibility, but he is blogging that the Longhorn Network approached Texas Tech with a $5-million/4-year deal to play Texas and a handful of OOC games on the LHN and Tech turned them down. He indicates that they will next approach Oklahoma State and that high school games will "happen eventually."

Nine things and one crazy prediction

If Texas Tech is turning down the LHN, that really has to make you wonder.

My understanding is that all the schools plan to refuse the UT payoff. We'll see if they hold that line.

[Ksyrup]

A whole bunch of twitter noise being shot down about TAMU going to the SEC. Again. I don't know where it started, but it seems to have just come out of thin air.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

A whole bunch of twitter noise being shot down about TAMU going to the SEC. Again. I don't know where it started, but it seems to have just come out of thin air.

A&M's rivals people are telling their fans that it's more or less done and the last thing being worked on is whether the move is made for 2012 or 2013.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

LOL.......what a clusterfuck. Latest news is reporting that ESPN is threatening to not televise UT/Tech game unless it's on Longhorn Network.

Can't wait for the implosion. I'm sure we'll see UT pretending it was everyone else that broke up the conference when the first fuse is lit. It'll make for another interesting year or two of total upheaval in the big conferences.

[tarcone]

Wow. Where does Mizzou and Kansas go? I hope Mizzou lands in the B1G. 1 1/2 travel time to watch Iowa athletics is right up my alley.

[cartman]

A&M officials reportedly have said there have been ‘no precipitating events that have led to today’s rumors & speculations’ about the SEC. They also added that there will be ‘no imminent announcement or anything of that matter’ concerning the SEC.

As for the rumor that ESPN won't show the Tech/UT game unless it is on LHN, no chance at all of that happening, as they won't let Fox claim one of their higher rated matchups. Fox gets to pick 2nd after ABC/ESPN.

[Swaggs]

The CBS Sports guy (I want to say his name is Mike McCourcy, but not positive) tweeted, earlier today, that the Big East's presidents had voted to invite Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State last Summer. I'm not sure how that has changed with TCU since joining, but I'd assume Missouri, Kansas, and Kansas State would still have a standing invitation (and likely Iowa State, along with one other school like UCF/Houston/Memphis/etc.). He also indicated that the Big East would have gone with a 12/20 model (football/basketball)

He also said that the Big East turned down ESPN's offer of 9-years/$1-billion that would have paid the football schools between 65-75% and the basketball schools 25-35%. The Big East's deal with ESPN ends after next season and ESPN had an exclusive windown to renegotiate.

[Swaggs]

Here is the twitter account. It is Brett McMurphy: Twitter

Here are some of the tweets:

McMurphyCBSBrett McMurphy

If Big12 split last year, sources told me Big East Prez's had approved inviting KU, KSU, ISU & MU as full members

4 hours ago


McMurphyCBSBrett McMurphy

@alskor no. this was before TCU invite. Would have been 12-team all sports; 20 teams in hoops




McMurphyCBSBrett McMurphy

Also confirmed media rights deal Big East turned down from ESPN: 9 years, $1.4 billion

4 hours ago


McMurphyCBSBrett McMurphy

@frankthetank111 @patricksouthern was told approx 65-75 percent for fball; 25-35 percent for hoops

4 hours ago

The offer was 9-year/$1.4-billion. If things don't get blown up by expansion, the Big East should come out ahead of the ACC in this next cycle (b/c the ACC signed early on, before the Pac 12 broke the bank).

[tarcone]

It sounds like the ACC will be dead if expansion comes again.

[cartman]

Looking at the schedule, yeah, there is no way ABC/ESPN passes on the Tech/Longhorn game if it isn't on the LHN. ABC/ESPN has first tier rights, and no team can appear more than 6 times on ABC/ESPN. Right now Texas has 5 games scheduled on ABC/ESPN (BYU, UCLA, OU, A&M and Baylor) and 6 games not on LHN or ABC/ESPN (ISU, OSU, Kansas, Tech, Mizzou, and KSU).

[cartman]

Here is a lawyer weighing in on the language in the LHN contract:

Texas’ Contract with ESPN for the Longhorn Network «

That analysis brings up a key point. ESPN just can't give games from their Tier 1 selections to the Longhorn Network. They have to get Fox to also pass up their Tier 2 rights, and as noted, Fox isn't going to do that just out of the kindness of their hearts.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

It sounds like the ACC will be dead if expansion comes again.

I think the only thing that could possibly kill the ACC is if the Big Ten decided to invite UNC, Duke, and UVA (who are all excellent academic fits, in new markets, that have strong athletic departments) AND the SEC invited NC State and Virginia Tech at the same time. Otherwise, the two Virginia schools are married indefinitely and the four North Carolina schools will stick together (I think Duke, UNC, and NC State could care less about Wake Forest, but they are a reliable ally while in the ACC).

Still, even if both of those things occurred, I'm not sure that Duke and UNC would want to leave center stage in the ACC for the Big Ten. And, realistically, if the Big East kept its BCS bid with only WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers, the ACC will certainly keep its bid with the two Virginia schools, the four NC schools, and some backfill (not that all the other schools would/could leave, but those six are certainly a very strong foundation for an all-sports league).

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think the only thing that could possibly kill the ACC is if the Big Ten decided to invite UNC, Duke, and UVA (who are all excellent academic fits, in new markets, that have strong athletic departments) AND the SEC invited NC State and Virginia Tech at the same time. Otherwise, the two Virginia schools are married indefinitely and the four North Carolina schools will stick together (I think Duke, UNC, and NC State could care less about Wake Forest, but they are a reliable ally while in the ACC).

Still, even if both of those things occurred, I'm not sure that Duke and UNC would want to leave center stage in the ACC for the Big Ten. And, realistically, if the Big East kept its BCS bid with only WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers, the ACC will certainly keep its bid with the two Virginia schools, the four NC schools, and some backfill (not that all the other schools would/could leave, but those six are certainly a very strong foundation for an all-sports league).

Duke and UNC would probably he happy if the ACC was just the two of them.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by digamma

Duke and UNC would probably he happy if the ACC was just the two of them.

I don't think the ACC would mind seeing Frank Haith back in the conference fold with Mizzou.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by digamma

Duke and UNC would probably he happy if the ACC was just the two of them.

Oh my, yes. They've voted down every expansion bid going back twenty years to the FSU one. It's why Virginia's vote being tied by their legislature to Virginia Tech was so important. Otherwise, the other schools would have voted over them to do the Syracuse bid.

[DeToxRox]

Maryland seems like a legit option to join the Big Ten whenever the conference decides to expand again. I know there has been some chatter from other Big Ten teams that the conference is infatuated with Duke but I don't see Duke/UNC ever breaking apart.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Maryland seems like a legit option to join the Big Ten whenever the conference decides to expand again. I know there has been some chatter from other Big Ten teams that the conference is infatuated with Duke but I don't see Duke/UNC ever breaking apart.

Yeah, I think the combo of Maryland, UVA, UNC, and Duke would be very attractive to the Big Ten. New, thriving markets (DC/NoVa and RDU) that are perfect academic fits, expand the existing footprint, and have large followings (Duke's football is obviously suspect, but it is a good counterbalance to Northwestern). Plus, none of the four would make the league too top heavy.

Maryland has no political baggage, so they would be very attractive. There have been some rumors that, with the ACC's subpar TV extension, the Big East could try to pry them away. Probably wishful thinking, but they would be a great all-around addition (particularly from a WVU point of view) and probably get a little more love than they do in the ACC.

[DeToxRox]

My guess is the Big Ten expands by two should another round of expansion break out, unless they can get the four you mentioned. They are going to save a spot for ND as long as possible, but they can't pass up Duke and NC plus a team like Maryland, at least I don't think so.

[tarcone]

Starting to see the division alignments making sense in the B1G. No East/West splits allows for ACC raiding with no problems.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by digamma

Duke and UNC would probably he happy if the ACC was just the two of them.

Wait? There are other teams in the conference. Near as I could tell from ESPN, it's just UNC and Duke but they are nice and play a lot of non-conference games against Maryland, NC State, and sometimes Wake Forest

SI

[cuervo72]

Like I said above, there was a bit of a discussion on what would be a better fit for Maryland - Big 10 vs Big East - on a local show last week. General consensus was Big East. The basketball would probably be better (Maryland more of a basketball school), and they wouldn't be as badly outclassed in football ("If Maryland joins the Big 10, they become Northwestern.")

There is also a natural basketball rivalry that would finally be forced to happen - Georgetown.

OH, almost forgot - recruiting. Maryland already pulls from states like PA, NY, NJ. Big East would help their visibility in those states. Probably not going to pull from OH, MI, IN, IL, WI (just like they don't really now from GA, FL, NC, SC).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

New, thriving markets (DC/NoVa and RDU)

You've obviously never seen the ratings for college football in either market.

edit to add: Or maybe you meant cbb instead, in which case then you're okay.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by digamma

Duke and UNC would probably he happy if the ACC was just the two of them.

I'm on board.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by cartman

Looking at the schedule, yeah, there is no way ABC/ESPN passes on the Tech/Longhorn game if it isn't on the LHN. ABC/ESPN has first tier rights, and no team can appear more than 6 times on ABC/ESPN. Right now Texas has 5 games scheduled on ABC/ESPN (BYU, UCLA, OU, A&M and Baylor) and 6 games not on LHN or ABC/ESPN (ISU, OSU, Kansas, Tech, Mizzou, and KSU).

Yes, and if ESPN doesn't want to show it, I'm sure Fox will be happy enough to do it.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Here is the twitter account. It is Brett McMurphy: Twitter

Here are some of the tweets:



The offer was 9-year/$1.4-billion. If things don't get blown up by expansion, the Big East should come out ahead of the ACC in this next cycle (b/c the ACC signed early on, before the Pac 12 broke the bank).

If you actually break the numbers down, it was a terrible offer.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Yes, and if ESPN doesn't want to show it, I'm sure Fox will be happy enough to do it.

Of course, teams get more revenue getting picked for espn than fox sports. For Texas its no biggie bc they will get their max allotment on first tier rights. Tech may not hit that maximum, so it could end up being costly for them. How much, though, I'm not sure.

[sooner333]

Looks like somone is going to have a meeting. Of course, last year, all the boards of regents met or cancelled their meeting basically to say "Just kidding, we're staying!"

Meeting Materials » The Texas A&M University System

[cartman]

Apparently the meeting is to go over some FY '12 budgetary items for the A&M system.

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.a...358&forum_id=5

Jason Cook is the Chief Communications Officer for the A&M system.

[duckman]

Report: Texas governor says Texas A&M considering move to SEC - ESPN

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, now I'm seeing tweets from the same people dismissing reports yesterday seriously considering them.

[Young Drachma]

Who would come with them to the SEC, though?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Who would come with them to the SEC, though?

Hopefully an ACC team like Clemson, leaving the Oklahoma schools for the Pac-12...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Who would come with them to the SEC, though?

The rumor posted on the Texas board by Chip Brown was FSU as a possibility. I heard Virginia Tech today as well, but after the strings pulled to get them into the ACC I don't know how well them bailing would go over.

[Ksyrup]

I don't understand why FSU would want to do that. How much more money would they get as a member of the SEC? Because if things continue as they are, FSU has a chance to dominate the ACC (maybe not 90s style, but close), and that sure as hell ain't happening if they move to the SEC.

[Swaggs]

One of the A&M guys suggested that the SEC teams could pull $34-million each. I think that is BS, as the SEC's contract has a number of years remaining (9 left, I believe) and there doesn't seem to be much incentive for ESPN to rip that up, pay almost double the cost, AND weaken another of their properties (newly signed ACC).

It is also interesting to note that the Big Ten added Nebraska (I think most would agree a better property than A&M, but I guess access to Texas makes them more compelling on some levels), but did not get (or attempt, to my knowledge) a new TV contract. Their increased revenues supposedly come from the championship game, its rights, and increasing the BTN footprint.

[Ksyrup]

As I understand it, both sides to any agreement like this will renegotiate deals based on adding or losing members (or. I guess, determine the contract payout based on ratings - maybe JiMGA can answer this). I'm not sure the SEC gets to $34M per member, but they would be due an increase. And really, the only reason the SEC would expand is if it new it could increase each member's slice of the pie, so there has to be something to it for them to be considering it.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't understand why FSU would want to do that. How much more money would they get as a member of the SEC? Because if things continue as they are, FSU has a chance to dominate the ACC

Well, perennially finish 2nd to Virginia Tech, that is.

[Ksyrup]

From what I've read, VT is having trouble keeping recruits from UVA. So when I say "continue as they are," I'm talking about FSU being top 3 recruiting every year with positive momentum behind a new coach and VT sliding some.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that VT only recruits from the state of Virginia, then whines to whoever will listen that Penn State steals all their recruits.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

From what I've read, VT is having trouble keeping recruits from UVA. So when I say "continue as they are," I'm talking about FSU being top 3 recruiting every year with positive momentum behind a new coach and VT sliding some.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that VT only recruits from the state of Virginia, then whines to whoever will listen that Penn State steals all their recruits.

Wrong and Wrong.

[Ksyrup]

One year ago:

Virginia Tech-Virginia: A Recruiting Shift in the State of Virginia? | Bleacher Report

Early this year:

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/notebookplus/wb/282775

Frank had to bring Shane back to VT to shore up recruiting in Tidewater because London was making such huge gains in a short time.

Saw this too:

While much of the state's media is focused on praising Virginia Tech assistant Shane Beamer for his recruiting prowess, even the papers in the Tidewater region of the state, the talent-rich '757' if you will, have overlooked the job that West, a native of the area, has done.

If Dockins does what most feel he'll do and select the Cavaliers, West will be the lead recruiter on six of Virginia's 2012 commitments.

By contrast, Shane Beamer is credited with five of Virginia Tech's commitments, none of which are rated higher than three-stars by 247Sports, yet the papers continue to praise the job that he has done.

Just sayin' - if you're suddenly in a battle for #1 in a state like VA, that could spell trouble.

[Toddzilla]

LOL. They've been talking about the downfall of Virginia Tech for 15 years, how recruiting is crumbling and how UVa is catching up and going to surpass VT in recruiting and on the field.

Look at VT's and UVa's record each of the last 20 years.

Yeah, maybe *this* is the year Tech doesn't win 10 games and go to a bowl and win the ACC.

Yawn.

[Toddzilla]

Dola:

Over those last 20 years, it can reasonably be argued - and possibly backed up by a service like Rivals - that UVa has out-recruited VT, even just in Virginia. How did that work out?

[Ksyrup]

I don't know. Honestly, VA schools aren't really on my radar.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=Ksyrup;2510989]As I understand it, both sides to any agreement like this will renegotiate deals based on adding or losing members (or. I guess, determine the contract payout based on ratings - maybe JiMGA can answer this). [quote]

I don't know that I can answer it much, at least not beyond "anything is possible depending upon what is in the contract".

Here's an article from last year where Mike Slive said pretty much the same thing. He seemed to confirm that renegotiation clauses exist for both sides but gave up nothing in terms of details.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Wrong and Wrong.

Look up the FOFC user dxtrfan1980, then you'll understand.

[Logan]

Classic.