2009 MLB Regular Season Thread - Page 73

Jas_lov · 07-30-2009, 11:37 AM

Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List - NYTimes.com

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez were on the 2003 steroids list. Not surprising at all.

molson · 07-30-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List - NYTimes.com

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez were on the 2003 steroids list. Not surprising at all.

No-brainer. The only guy I'm sure wasn't juicing from that (or any) team is Curt Schilling (not because he's a fatty, just because I believe his rants about steroids are genuine).

But even as a Sox fan, I wouldn't disagree with anyone that says that the '04 World Series win was tained. That's what the players union and the owners did to us, and every fan.

But these guys are going to have a hell of lawsuit on their hands if we ever find out how these names are getting released.

Jas_lov · 07-30-2009, 11:48 AM

Yeah, and I hope this doesn't keep going where one or two names come out every few months. Just release the whole damn list and get it all over with or destroy the list. Everyone used steroids, we get it so let's just move on.

Crapshoot · 07-30-2009, 11:53 AM

Meh, don't care, but it makes it all the more fucking ridiculous how Bonds gets blackballed, while people the writers like get free passes. Face it - this is primarily an issue for old farts to whine about the "sanctity" of the game.

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2009, 11:55 AM

What's with all these little by little released names? For drama's sake?

Btw, I'm with Crapshoot.

PackerFanatic · 07-30-2009, 12:04 PM

I think it'd be more newsworthy to announce people that HAVEN'T juiced. The fact that they keep throwing out a name or two at a time is just stupid.

molson · 07-30-2009, 12:09 PM

Presumably, it's not the same person deciding which names to announce every few months. These are sealed documents. Some lawyer (or intern) sees them, calls a sportswriter, and maybe tries to get free tickets for a game or something.

Certain lawyers may have access to part of or the entire list. Lawyers working on the Giambi stuff probably knew only that Giambi was on the list. Same with Bonds. So those names were leaked then. Maybe these particular lawyers only had access to Manny and Ortiz, for whatever reason.

One things for sure, when they leak a name, it's a blatant violation of court orders.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-30-2009, 12:10 PM

Unsurprisingly disappointing.

MikeVic · 07-30-2009, 12:13 PM

I hate when steroids are brought up. It always makes me think "why do I still care about baseball?" And then I try ot decide whether I should just drop the sport altogether.

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

One things for sure, when they leak a name, it's a blatant violation of court orders.

Yep. And that's highly disappointing... but, of course, people think its ok, because they are outing a player for using roids, ugh.

watravaler · 07-30-2009, 12:47 PM

Let the subtle, but obvious, "sweeping under the rug" by ESPN, MLBPA, the owners, the agents, etc... begin.

Olympic-style drug testing is the ONLY solution to this mess, but we all know the greed of the involved parties will never allow the most effective testing program on the planet to be used(of course, it isn't going to catch everyone, as the millionaires involved in baseball can pay to stay a few steps ahead of the testing, but it's certainly better than the joke of a piss test we currently have). Like Ben Johnson(Canadian Sprinter, "former" Olympic Champion), the records of these "greats" should be removed from the books once the proven cheat hangs up his/her cleats...at the very least, the Sammy Sosa/David Ortiz's of the world should be listed with an asterick next to their name in the official record books.

I understand most think this is way too harsh, but I do believe the Olympic program is ideal. In a perfect world, a first offense would result in a two-year ban from baseball, a second offense? Find a new job/league...

The powers that be shouldn't have silenced Frank Thomas when he claimed this was a serious issue in the early 90's...it's too bad his name will be linked with these asterick-clowns.

stevew · 07-30-2009, 12:49 PM

Shit....you're telling me that David Ortiz....a guy thats 1.5 times the size of David Arias......juiced?

Seriously?

And agreed about them needing to leave Bonds alone, it's not like he was the only high profile guy doing this.

gstelmack · 07-30-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

And agreed about them needing to leave Bonds alone, it's not like he was the only high profile guy doing this.

Bonds is the only one to break the home run record, but he's also generally a jerk who brought most of this upon himself. Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens did not come out of this exactly unscathed, however, so to claim Bonds gets particularly nasty treatment because of steroids isn't really true. The most that's come down on him because of that was scorn over the homerun record.

Easy Mac · 07-30-2009, 01:25 PM

Per Ortiz, earlier this year:

Quote:

Ortiz said that testing should not be random, and that every player should be tested three to four times per year. And if those players test positive? "Bang them for the whole year," he said.

I'm sure he'll voluntarily take a year off.

Alan T · 07-30-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Per Ortiz, earlier this year:

I'm sure he'll voluntarily take a year off.

I am guessing back in June and before many of the Red Sox fans probably were wishing he took this year off.

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2009, 01:28 PM

Wait... did he say "bang them" or "ban them"... because that changes a lot!

Warhammer · 07-30-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Per Ortiz, earlier this year:

I'm sure he'll voluntarily take a year off.

I thought he was already taking the year off.

Coffee Warlord · 07-30-2009, 01:54 PM

Apparently Kevin Hart has drilled 4 people this inning for the Cubs: 2 Astros and the Umpire (twice).

JonInMiddleGA · 07-30-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Apparently Kevin Hart has drilled 4 people this inning for the Cubs: 2 Astros and the Umpire (twice).

I'm sure it would be too much for me to hope that Bill Hohn's crew is working this game.

DaddyTorgo · 07-30-2009, 01:57 PM

I'll wait for more than one source, but

. Not Papi!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYT via SI.com

Slugging stars David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, who helped deliver the Boston Red Sox their first world championship in 86 years in 2004 and a second title in 2007, are among the names on the list of 104 players who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, according to the New York Times.

The Times, citing lawyers with knowledge of the results, reported on Thursday that Ortiz and Ramirez were found on the now-infamous list which, it was revealed in previous months, also includes Alex Rodriguez and Sammy Sosa.

While Ramirez was already linked to baseball's ever-widening steroids era after failing a drug test this season and serving a 50-game suspension, this is the first time Ortiz has been connected to performance-enhancing drugs.

According to the Times, the lawyers did not reveal which drugs the players tested positive for. Ortiz said "I have no comment" when asked about the matter on Thursday by a Times reporter in Boston. When Sports Illustrated reported in February that Alex Rodriguez had tested positive for steroids in 2003, Ortiz said any player who tested positive should be suspended for an entire season.

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2009, 01:58 PM

Post 3601 dude

.

DaddyTorgo · 07-30-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List - NYTimes.com

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez were on the 2003 steroids list. Not surprising at all.

still fewer Sox juicers than Yankee juicers

DaddyTorgo · 07-30-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Post 3601 dude

.

yeah i apparently missed the new page when i clicked "new posts" it took me back a page so i didn't realize it was up on here yet

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-30-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

still fewer Sox juicers than Yankee juicers

Probably not a good road to begin walking down.

DeToxRox · 07-30-2009, 02:07 PM

Just an update on Halladay:

Detroit was told it'd take Rick Porcello, Ryan Perry and Casey Crosby for Doc. As much as I say you have to trade prospects for a guy like him, I am glad this was turned down. Our system is lacking depth, but Crosby seems very legit at this stage. Meanwhile Porcello is 20 and going to be most likely a 12-13 game winner already while Perry has the potential to be dominant in a year or two out of the pen.

Plus Doc can't hit which kills us because we just don't score runs.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 07-30-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

still fewer Sox juicers than Yankee juicers

Is that really saying all that much? I do know that the Royals woefully underachieved when it comes to juicers. No wonder we can't win.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 07-30-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Is that really saying all that much? I do know that the Royals woefully underachieved when it comes to juicers. No wonder we can't win.

Probably not a good road to begin walking down.

Steroid Nation: Kansas City Royals in the 2000s: Dugout of juicers?

stevew · 07-30-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

still fewer Sox juicers than Yankee juicers

Thats something to be proud of!!!!!

stevew · 07-30-2009, 02:16 PM

dola,

By my count that makes 5 tainted Boston championships in the 2000s.

Good work fellas!

Logan · 07-30-2009, 02:34 PM

The only player who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to steroids, in my mind, is Frank Thomas. Everyone else is presumed guilty.

molson · 07-30-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

dola,

By my count that makes 5 tainted Boston championships in the 2000s.

Good work fellas!

What about Kevin McHale helping out an old friend?

As a fan, I'd rather have 6 tainted championships than 0.

stevew · 07-30-2009, 02:47 PM

true true.

McHale helped out everyone though, so I don't think that one counts.

Galaril · 07-30-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'll wait for more than one source, but

. Not Papi!

Yeah no kidding not Big papi

................And if so he should have fired his trainer/dealer since he sure did not get the same stuff Arod and the NY Yankers
took (take) from the looks of his gut.

Galaril · 07-30-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

dola,

By my count that makes 5 tainted Boston championships in the 2000s.

Good work fellas!

Strong words from a Pirates fan

Swaggs · 07-30-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

The only player who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to steroids, in my mind, is Frank Thomas. Everyone else is presumed guilty.

I still have same faith in Griffey and Jeter.

stevew · 07-30-2009, 03:07 PM

Griffey being a cheeter would basically be the only thing that would make me sad. The rest of these guys, i basically have no attachment to whatsoever.

DaddyTorgo · 07-30-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Probably not a good road to begin walking down.

true. but neither was Jas being a douche

MikeVic · 07-30-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Griffey being a cheeter would basically be the only thing that would make me sad. The rest of these guys, i basically have no attachment to whatsoever.

That would crush me as a fan.

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2009, 03:38 PM

He was being a douche? Where?

stevew · 07-30-2009, 03:54 PM

Where not?

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2009, 03:57 PM

So apparently the Mets have won 5 straight. I'm not exactly sure how that happened.

sterlingice · 07-30-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

Mark Buehrle's first gift to the team : here is DeWayne Wise' personalized:

I hadn't seen this before. Cool gift

SI

sterlingice · 07-30-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

What the hell does Zack have to do to get a win. He's without question the best pitcher in baseball, yet the Royals continue have issues giving him any sort of run support. In 5 starts in July, he's given up 9 earned runs. His record during that stretch? 0-3. I'm going to be SO PISSED if the Royals offense manages to steal a Cy Young award from Greinke.

Royals are now 10-11 in games pitched by Zack this year. Sad, just sad.

SI

molson · 07-30-2009, 04:07 PM

Jose Canseco says there's a current HOF that used, but wouldn't name him.

Jose Canseco not surprised by report on Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz - ESPN

I would assume that's Ricky Henderson, but I don't know why the guys that their primes in the 80s but played through the 90s are always given the benefit of the doubt - Ripken, Murray, Sandberg, Molitor, etc.

RomaGoth · 07-30-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

still fewer Sox juicers than Yankee juicers

I guess if you can't have 26 World Series titles, this will do, right?

RomaGoth · 07-30-2009, 04:18 PM

Dola

Quote:

Ortiz told a Times reporter on Thursday morning that he had no comment on the report.

Whenever anyone says "no comment" to a story, you know it has to be true. I mean, how hard is it to say, "These accusations are false, I did nothing wrong, and I will prove it."

stevew · 07-30-2009, 04:21 PM

Trade----

John Grabow and Tom Gorzellany to the Cubs for supposedly Ryan Theriot and Jay Jackson.

Maybe others, maybe that's the wrong two. I know those two pirates are traded to the cubs though.

RomaGoth · 07-30-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Trade----

John Grabow and Tom Gorzellany to the Cubs for supposedly Ryan Theriot and Jay Jackson.

Maybe others, maybe that's the wrong two. I know those two pirates are traded to the cubs though.

I heard a rumor that the Pirates were offering their stadium for a single A player to be named later (presumably Pumpy Tudors) and cash. Is this true?

molson · 07-30-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Dola

Whenever anyone says "no comment" to a story, you know it has to be true. I mean, how hard is it to say, "These accusations are false, I did nothing wrong, and I will prove it."

So I guess he's not going to go the taking responsbility route.

He deserves the jeers he'll get on the road and the questions about the legitmacy of his career.

molson · 07-30-2009, 04:25 PM

I'm waiting for some team to send prospects to the Pirates with the express agreement that the Pirates will return the prospects to the sending team the second they accomplish anything in the majors (for more prospects).

07-30-2009, 11:55 AM	#3605
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	What's with all these little by little released names? For drama's sake? Btw, I'm with Crapshoot. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-30-2009, 12:04 PM	#3606
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I think it'd be more newsworthy to announce people that HAVEN'T juiced. The fact that they keep throwing out a name or two at a time is just stupid. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

07-30-2009, 12:09 PM	#3607
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Presumably, it's not the same person deciding which names to announce every few months. These are sealed documents. Some lawyer (or intern) sees them, calls a sportswriter, and maybe tries to get free tickets for a game or something. Certain lawyers may have access to part of or the entire list. Lawyers working on the Giambi stuff probably knew only that Giambi was on the list. Same with Bonds. So those names were leaked then. Maybe these particular lawyers only had access to Manny and Ortiz, for whatever reason. One things for sure, when they leak a name, it's a blatant violation of court orders. Last edited by molson : 07-30-2009 at 12:10 PM.

07-30-2009, 12:10 PM	#3608
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Unsurprisingly disappointing. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

07-30-2009, 12:49 PM	#3612
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Shit....you're telling me that David Ortiz....a guy thats 1.5 times the size of David Arias......juiced? Seriously? And agreed about them needing to leave Bonds alone, it's not like he was the only high profile guy doing this. Last edited by stevew : 07-30-2009 at 12:49 PM.

07-30-2009, 11:37 AM	#3601
Jas_lov College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List - NYTimes.com David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez were on the 2003 steroids list. Not surprising at all.

07-30-2009, 11:48 AM	#3603
Jas_lov College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Yeah, and I hope this doesn't keep going where one or two names come out every few months. Just release the whole damn list and get it all over with or destroy the list. Everyone used steroids, we get it so let's just move on.

07-30-2009, 11:53 AM	#3604
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	Meh, don't care, but it makes it all the more fucking ridiculous how Bonds gets blackballed, while people the writers like get free passes. Face it - this is primarily an issue for old farts to whine about the "sanctity" of the game.

07-30-2009, 12:13 PM	#3609
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	I hate when steroids are brought up. It always makes me think "why do I still care about baseball?" And then I try ot decide whether I should just drop the sport altogether.

07-30-2009, 12:47 PM	#3611
watravaler High School JV Join Date: Jun 2005	Let the subtle, but obvious, "sweeping under the rug" by ESPN, MLBPA, the owners, the agents, etc... begin. Olympic-style drug testing is the ONLY solution to this mess, but we all know the greed of the involved parties will never allow the most effective testing program on the planet to be used(of course, it isn't going to catch everyone, as the millionaires involved in baseball can pay to stay a few steps ahead of the testing, but it's certainly better than the joke of a piss test we currently have). Like Ben Johnson(Canadian Sprinter, "former" Olympic Champion), the records of these "greats" should be removed from the books once the proven cheat hangs up his/her cleats...at the very least, the Sammy Sosa/David Ortiz's of the world should be listed with an asterick next to their name in the official record books. I understand most think this is way too harsh, but I do believe the Olympic program is ideal. In a perfect world, a first offense would result in a two-year ban from baseball, a second offense? Find a new job/league... The powers that be shouldn't have silenced Frank Thomas when he claimed this was a serious issue in the early 90's...it's too bad his name will be linked with these asterick-clowns.

07-30-2009, 01:28 PM	#3616
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Wait... did he say "bang them" or "ban them"... because that changes a lot! __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-30-2009, 01:54 PM	#3618
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	Apparently Kevin Hart has drilled 4 people this inning for the Cubs: 2 Astros and the Umpire (twice). Last edited by Coffee Warlord : 07-30-2009 at 01:54 PM.

07-30-2009, 01:58 PM	#3621
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Post 3601 dude . __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-30-2009, 02:07 PM	#3625
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Just an update on Halladay: Detroit was told it'd take Rick Porcello, Ryan Perry and Casey Crosby for Doc. As much as I say you have to trade prospects for a guy like him, I am glad this was turned down. Our system is lacking depth, but Crosby seems very legit at this stage. Meanwhile Porcello is 20 and going to be most likely a 12-13 game winner already while Perry has the potential to be dominant in a year or two out of the pen. Plus Doc can't hit which kills us because we just don't score runs.

07-30-2009, 02:16 PM	#3629
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	dola, By my count that makes 5 tainted Boston championships in the 2000s. Good work fellas!

07-30-2009, 02:34 PM	#3630
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	The only player who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to steroids, in my mind, is Frank Thomas. Everyone else is presumed guilty.

07-30-2009, 02:47 PM	#3632
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	true true. McHale helped out everyone though, so I don't think that one counts.

07-30-2009, 03:07 PM	#3636
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Griffey being a cheeter would basically be the only thing that would make me sad. The rest of these guys, i basically have no attachment to whatsoever.

07-30-2009, 03:38 PM	#3639
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	He was being a douche? Where? __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-30-2009, 03:54 PM	#3640
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Where not?

07-30-2009, 03:57 PM	#3641
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	So apparently the Mets have won 5 straight. I'm not exactly sure how that happened. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-30-2009, 04:07 PM	#3644
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Jose Canseco says there's a current HOF that used, but wouldn't name him. Jose Canseco not surprised by report on Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz - ESPN I would assume that's Ricky Henderson, but I don't know why the guys that their primes in the 80s but played through the 90s are always given the benefit of the doubt - Ripken, Murray, Sandberg, Molitor, etc.

07-30-2009, 04:21 PM	#3647
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Trade---- John Grabow and Tom Gorzellany to the Cubs for supposedly Ryan Theriot and Jay Jackson. Maybe others, maybe that's the wrong two. I know those two pirates are traded to the cubs though.

07-30-2009, 04:25 PM	#3650
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I'm waiting for some team to send prospects to the Pirates with the express agreement that the Pirates will return the prospects to the sending team the second they accomplish anything in the majors (for more prospects). Last edited by molson : 07-30-2009 at 04:25 PM.

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