*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Then again, maybe Zidane was saying "Did you just wish death to my mother"? Then both Italian lipreaders would be somewhat right .

Or more likely "death to your mother", "no, death to your mother". They were jawing off at each other.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

No, if you are able to get up and walk away without requiring further medical attention, it's not serious.

He was getting medical attention on the ground.

Have you never got a good blow on the sternum? It's not a slight ticklish sensation, believe me.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

Or more likely "death to your mother", "no, death to your mother". They were jawing off at each other.

And then Zidane was possessed by the Devil and went off for no reason, yes, we know.

I don't think Zidane would be in jawing mood of that topic, considering his mother was hospitalized the DAY BEFORE the match!

[Critch]

Dola... or even double dola

Slight change of topic, Klinsmann has apparently quit the Germany job.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Critch

He was getting medical attention on the ground.

Have you never got a good blow on the sternum? It's not a slight ticklish sensation, believe me.

Yes, many, many Italians received medical attention that evening and throughout the tournament.

I meant having to leave the field of play. I have gotten a good blow on the sternum, it's called getting the wind knocked out of you. I've also cut my face badly enough to require stitches several times. I'll take the blow to the sternum please.

Maybe Zidane knows martial arts, it wouldn't suprise me. In that case he should have given him the claw of death rather than the headbutt of windlessness.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Yes, many, many Italians received medical attention that evening and throughout the tournament.

Yeah, that does weaken the case.

But this time I think the Italian player was actually hurt.

[Desnudo]

I think he probably had the wind knocked out of him, which happens all the time in American football when a player falls on the ball. Down for a minute or two and up again with no ill effect.

Anyway, it's a silly argument. I'm sure Zidane would have headbutted him on the nose had Materazzi been shorter, so the intent was obviously there.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And then Zidane was possessed by the Devil and went off for no reason, yes, we know.

I don't think Zidane would be in jawing mood of that topic, considering his mother was hospitalized the DAY BEFORE the match!

I, like you, have no idea what they were jawing back and forward at each other, I don't believe that Zidane is a shrinking violet who can't hold his own though. No, he didn't go off for no reason. He was angry and frustrated and went off. He's done it before.

Would have all been better if Zidane's late header had went in and we were remembering the final and the end of Zidane's career with fonder memories. Scoring the winner in the World Cup final before vanishing off into the sunset would have been ideal.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Anyway, it's a silly argument. I'm sure Zidane would have headbutted him on the nose had Materazzi been shorter, so the intent was obviously there.

Eh, he could have jumped. I was thinking he went for the chest cos he could walk away and not be sent off if nobody saw. It would have been harder to claim innocence if he had blood and snot all over his baldy forehead.

[ISiddiqui]

I think most fans would have liked to see the header go in and then Zidane plow into Materazzi while France holds on to win .

I don't get this "he was angry and frustrated" argument. He was having a pretty good game and the mere fact that it was 1-1 and Italy was playing good defense on France may have been compelling if France didn't have two frustrating ties in the round robin against Switzerland and South Korea.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Critch

Eh, he could have jumped. I was thinking he went for the chest cos he could walk away and not be sent off if nobody saw. It would have been harder to claim innocence if he had blood and snot all over his baldy forehead.

Or he could have kicked him in the crotch. Who knows what was going through his mind. Anyway, what's funny is, after watching all the youtube stuff on Materazzi, I find myself enjoying Zidane's KO more.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think most fans would have liked to see the header go in and then Zidane plow into Materazzi while France holds on to win .

I don't get this "he was angry and frustrated" argument. He was having a pretty good game and the mere fact that it was 1-1 and Italy was playing good defense on France may have been compelling if France didn't have two frustrating ties in the round robin against Switzerland and South Korea.

He gets frustrated when he feels he's being stopped from playing by his opponents rough tactics. That was what he said when he headbutted the HSV player. Domenech complained after the game that Zidane had been badly treated all afternoon with no protection from the ref, so that would fit in.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

He gets frustrated when he feels he's being stopped from playing by his opponents rough tactics. That was what he said when he headbutted the HSV player. Domenech complained after the game that Zidane had been badly treated all afternoon with no protection from the ref, so that would fit in.

Cause... that didn't happen earlier in the tourney? Especially since they had to play the Swiss! (though I will say the Brazilians don't play that way, so we can take that one out)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Or he could have kicked him in the crotch. Who knows what was going through his mind. Anyway, what's funny is, after watching all the youtube stuff on Materazzi, I find myself enjoying Zidane's KO more.

Yeah, that's what I've been hearing from people in Europe from other forums. It was very dumb, but it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person... they just wish he aimed higher up (maybe broken a jaw or something.. and I'm not exaggerating).

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Cause... that didn't happen earlier in the tourney? Especially since they had to play the Swiss! (though I will say the Brazilians don't play that way, so we can take that one out)

He did get booked against th Swiss (can't remember what for, I think I nodded off during that game), and I don't think the Swiss would take their dirty play to the levels the Italian defenders would. At least they'd keep the dirty stuff til when the ball was in play and fairly near Zidane.

Materazzi, on the other hand, apparently grabbed and twisted Zidane's nipple at one point.

[ISiddiqui]

He played in Italy for a good part of his career and played a great number of games. I don't recall him getting tossed in every game (don't tell me Serie A isn't renown for its dirty, frustrating tactics!).

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

He played in Italy for a good part of his career and played a great number of games. I don't recall him getting tossed in every game (don't tell me Serie A isn't renown for its dirty, frustrating tactics!).

Of course he's not going to crack in every game, but he did see red a few times for Juventus.

Plus he was playing for Juve, they paid the refs wages

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Critch

Materazzi, on the other hand, apparently grabbed and twisted Zidane's nipple at one point.

is this for real...i didnt see this anywhere (news reports wise)

[bulletsponge]

Slight change of topic, Klinsmann has apparently quit the Germany job.

OMG you know what this means! USA!

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Critch

Plus he was playing for Juve, they paid the refs wages

can you imagine if they really get relegated to Serie III....i will have to find a way to watch those games....i dont know enough about Italian League rules to know if the players will be able to leave the team, or if they will have to stay in 3rd division. (sorry, realize this is kind of a threadjack)

[Critch]

Originally Posted by saldana

is this for real...i didnt see this anywhere (news reports wise)

Yeah, it's mentioned a few places. Put "Zidane Nipple" into google, probably best to avoid the image search though. Apparently you can see him do it if you can find a clip of the final that goes back a little further before the headbutt. One of the replay angels you can spot it. I haven't seen it myself.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by saldana

can you imagine if they really get relegated to Serie III....i will have to find a way to watch those games....i dont know enough about Italian League rules to know if the players will be able to leave the team, or if they will have to stay in 3rd division. (sorry, realize this is kind of a threadjack)

Quite a few of the star players have relegation release clauses, and I'm not sure if they are forced down if those parts of the contract stay valid. It will definitely be interesting.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by cartman

Quite a few of the star players have relegation release clauses, and I'm not sure if they are forced down if those parts of the contract stay valid. It will definitely be interesting.

all i keep seeing in my head when i think of this is the yankees playing in place of their A affiliate.

[bob shepperd voice]now batting for the Charleston RiverDogs, number 2, Derek Jeter, number 2. [/bob shepperd voice]

and then i start laughing out loud cause i amused myself that much

[Critch]

Originally Posted by saldana

can you imagine if they really get relegated to Serie III....i will have to find a way to watch those games....i dont know enough about Italian League rules to know if the players will be able to leave the team, or if they will have to stay in 3rd division. (sorry, realize this is kind of a threadjack)

The decision was supposed to be released today, but it's been put back another 2 or 3 days so it won't be here til the end of the week. Serie C for Juventus and Serie B for Milan, Fiorentina and Lazio seems to be where the smart money is going.

Huge sell off for Juve coming up with half of the big Euro teams circling like vultures. Mutu has already gone, but strangely he's gone to Fiorentina for about $9mil even though they're one of the others accused. Vieira and Buffon to Arsenal according to one of the English papers.

I'm so over the World Cup

[cartman]

Even with all of those teams out of Serie A, Inter will still find a way to screw up and not win the Scudetto.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Even with all of those teams out of Serie A, Inter will still find a way to screw up and not win the Scudetto.

Strangely enough they're talking about stripping Juventus's of their last two league titles, if they do that AC Milan finished 2nd both seasons. So will they give those titles to Milan, or will they strip them as well assuming they are guilty?

If they strip both Juventus and Milan, then Inter finished 3rd both seasons. So Inter may actually be going for 3 championships in a row next year.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by Critch

Strangely enough they're talking about stripping Juventus's of their last two league titles, if they do that AC Milan finished 2nd both seasons. So will they give those titles to Milan, or will they strip them as well assuming they are guilty?

If they strip both Juventus and Milan, then Inter finished 3rd both seasons. So Inter may actually be going for 3 championships in a row next year.

Nope, the title won't be awarded those years, same thing happened in 1993 in France after Marseille got relegated for corruption.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by BreizhManu

Nope, the title won't be awarded those years, same thing happened in 1993 in France after Marseille got relegated for corruption.

I think the rules are different in different countries. AC Milan are campaigning for the last two Juventus titles to be passed to them, so they must have something in their league rules that allows a title winner to be changed retrospectively.

Either that or Berlusconi is twisting the rules. That's very possible too.

[Crapshoot]

Berlusconi, changing the rules to avoid trouble ? Never!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by saldana

all i keep seeing in my head when i think of this is the yankees playing in place of their A affiliate.

[bob shepperd voice]now batting for the Charleston RiverDogs, number 2, Derek Jeter, number 2. [/bob shepperd voice]

and then i start laughing out loud cause i amused myself that much

HAHAHA!

That's wonderful .

[tanglewood]

Interesting tidbit, who out of the following has been red carded the most in their career: Patrick Vieria, Roy Keane or Zinedine Zidane?

Hint: All this 'Zizou is a nice guy, it was so out of character for him, Materrazzi must have really said something horrible to him' charade is bullshit.

[ISiddiqui]

Likewise this Zizou is a nasty player, Materazzi didn't do anything that doesn't happen in every game crap is bullshit.

Like I said, it isn't like Zidane got red carded in every game (or even once a season). To believe he just flipped out without great provocation is just being silly.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

To believe he just flipped out without great provocation is just being silly.

Why? He's done it before.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

Why? He's done it before.

Hmm.. because he's in a World Cup final match perhaps? Because he was walking away from the play before he spun around suddenly and popped him? Because we all know Materazzi's reputation? Because Materazzi admitted he was taunting Zidane?

[Critch]

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_-_SR62uz0&search=zidane%20hsv

Here he is in a Champions League match.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_-_SR62uz0&search=zidane%20hsv

Here he is in a Champions League match.

And? He really appeared to be running away from the play and suddenly spun around there... oh wait... no he didn't.

[sabotai]

More SA hilarity. I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this one.

[Critch]

No he didnt. He showed that he can flip out without provocation.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Likewise this Zizou is a nasty player, Materazzi didn't do anything that doesn't happen in every game crap is bullshit.

Like I said, it isn't like Zidane got red carded in every game (or even once a season). To believe he just flipped out without great provocation is just being silly.

I agree largely, but all I'm saying is Zidane was sent off 14 times in his career, Roy Keane was red carded 11 times. I think a lot of people would call Keane a dirty player, so.....

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

No he didnt. He showed that he can flip out without provocation.

Yes.. the Devil took him defense. The attempts to excuse Materazzi are incredible! It may have been very wrong, but when a player is running back from the play and suddenly comes to a dead stop, whirls around and fouls a player hard, I think some great provocation would be quite the obvious rationale.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I agree largely, but all I'm saying is Zidane was sent off 14 times in his career, Roy Keane was red carded 11 times. I think a lot of people would call Keane a dirty player, so.....

Bah Vinny Jones only had 12, that means nothing...

[Critch]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I agree largely, but all I'm saying is Zidane was sent off 14 times in his career, Roy Keane was red carded 11 times. I think a lot of people would call Keane a dirty player, so.....

Roy Keane did intentionally injure an opponent (Alf-Inge Haaland retired after it), get in his face as he lay on the ground, then boasted about it in his autobiography. I don't think you'd ever see Zidane do anything like that, he loses his cool and he has a mean streak (not a bad thing), but he wouldn't go to that level.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Likewise this Zizou is a nasty player, Materazzi didn't do anything that doesn't happen in every game crap is bullshit.

Like I said, it isn't like Zidane got red carded in every game (or even once a season).

Zidane played eighteen seasons, fourteen or so as a starter (going off Wikipedia, where it's a bit hard to tell when exactly he became a regular). He's been sent off fifteen times. That's quite a bit like once a season. He's not a nasty player most of the time, but he does lose control a lot more easily than most world-class players. I don't think anyone's suggesting that Materazzi wasn't being thoroughly nasty, but it's just not true to say that Zidane only reacts to extraordinary provocation. Until the lip-readers settle on a consensus, there's no reason to assume Materazzi went outside the normal boundaries of trash talk, since a) that's not his usual brand of nasty (hideous tackles yes, racial epithets no) and b) Zidane has previously gone off on people who hadn't crossed that line.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I agree largely, but all I'm saying is Zidane was sent off 14 times in his career, Roy Keane was red carded 11 times. I think a lot of people would call Keane a dirty player, so.....

The numbers of cards doesn't always determine how dirty of a player you are. It is how you obtain those cards (whether straight red or not, a tackle that causes great injury) and what you do that is not called. I mean Materazzi's red cards are much more blatent and dangerous (see the videos) than say someone like David Beckham, who's red card number is close to double digits, IIRC, but no one I know would refer to Becks as a dirty player in the slightest (even though there was one season where Becks was sent off 3 times).

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yes.. the Devil took him defense. The attempts to excuse Materazzi are incredible! It may have been very wrong, but when a player is running back from the play and suddenly comes to a dead stop, whirls around and fouls a player hard, I think some great provocation would be quite the obvious rationale.

I'm not trying to excuse Materazzi at all. I'm saying that the idea Zidane is some angel who must have snapped under provocation is wrong, he's got a history of losing his cool. Although I'm not saying Materazzi didn't provoke him either, just that we don't know so we can't jump to conclusions.

And that wasn't a hard foul. It was an off the ball cheap shot.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Katon

Zidane played eighteen seasons, fourteen or so as a starter (going off Wikipedia, where it's a bit hard to tell when exactly he became a regular). He's been sent off fifteen times. That's quite a bit like once a season. He's not a nasty player most of the time, but he does lose control a lot more easily than most world-class players. I don't think anyone's suggesting that Materazzi wasn't being thoroughly nasty, but it's just not true to say that Zidane only reacts to extraordinary provocation. Until the lip-readers settle on a consensus, there's no reason to assume Materazzi went outside the normal boundaries of trash talk, since a) that's not his usual brand of nasty (hideous tackles yes, racial epithets no) and b) Zidane has previously gone off on people who hadn't crossed that line.

Yet in that certain play, Zidane and Materazzi were jawing. Zidane runs away from Materazzi.. but suddenly stops on a dime, whirls, walks a few steps up and wham. This what not a 'heat of the moment' type of thing as against Hamburger SV. This was something that made him whip around as he was running away towards the ball and tag Materazzi hard with the top of his head.

If he was going off on Materazzi just 'cause (or if he was 'angry' and 'frustrated'), why not do it when both are jawing standing side by side? A quick kick to the thigh or something? Why jog away, turn on a dime, and then slam him?

[Katon]

Because Materazzi kept talking. I'm not arguing that Zidane wasn't reacting to Materazzi. I'm saying that Zidane has been known to find himself extremely provoked by stuff which isn't extraordinarily vicious, so there's no reason to assume that Materazzi's last taunt was beyond the pale.

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Or he could have kicked him in the crotch. Who knows what was going through his mind. Anyway, what's funny is, after watching all the youtube stuff on Materazzi, I find myself enjoying Zidane's KO more.

Everyone knows Materazzi has no balls.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

When Cantona reacted to such a taunt from a fan

I love this picture.




If Cantona can go from that incident to being the spokesman for Nike's 'Play Beautiful' campaign then in 4 years (or less) we'll probably see Zidane in some kind of Nike/Adidas 'play with magic' campaign.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Critch

Roy Keane did intentionally injure an opponent (Alf-Inge Haaland retired after it)

It's part of the Keane myth that it was the same injury. Haaland retired because of a completely different injury.

get in his face as he lay on the ground

What he did was to repeat what Haaland had done to him when he suffered a cruciate ligament injury the season before. Keane went down in agony, cruciate ligament gone, and Haaland screamed at him to get off the floor and stop feigning injury. Keane didn't play for almost another season. One thing Keane would never do was feign injury - kick three shades of s...t out of his opponent, yes, but never feign injury

So, when Haaland went down Keane asked him how it felt

then boasted about it in his autobiography

He didn't boast, he told the truth - which was a problem with Keane throughout his career including his last time at OT when he accused the current Utd squad of lack of commitment on MUTV and Ferguson let him go.